Sprint Projects/Resources for PyCon 2008 Sprints
Hi all, We'll being doing an Activities sprint after PyCon2008, March 17th (evening) to the afternoon of the 20th. We'll likely have 8-10 Python programmers of various skill levels available. Given the compressed time-frame, we should be able to either complete very small projects or work on existing projects. We've got a pretty good set of small project tasks outlined in the OLPC Austria wiki and the main OLPC wiki, but new programmers will likely be looking for projects they can join as well. I'm intending to spend any coding time I have (when I'm not helping the teams) working on Productive and/or the OLPCGames wrapper it uses. I can readily absorb about 3-4 programmers into those projects, but I expect there will be people would would rather work on something else, but who don't feel comfortable starting their own project or joining a new project. So if you: * are a project lead for an Activity o something where you already have code and can make use of (junior) collaborators * will be available on IRC during the sprint time-frame to act as a mentor for new coders o particularly in the evening on Sunday the 17th and then Monday daytime to get people started o right through until Wednesday would be useful * have some set of tasks that you feel a new coder could work on as a starting point for joining your project o if you have reasonably self-contained tickets in the tracker that's probably the best approach let me know so I can suggest your project to participants as a mentored introductory projects. I'll try to familiarize myself with your code-base before the sprints so that I can help out if people get stuck. Thanks all, Mike ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Suspended time vs Resumed time in an idle XO
in case you need it, i am resending the script because it was blocked On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Giannis Galanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have noticed that an idle machine will resume for some time, and suspend again, several times for no reason. I wrote a simple script that checks every 1sec whether the machine is suspended on not. It gives a timeline of Suspended times and Resumed times. A left an XO completely idle overnight for 12h. The results were: It resumed about 80 times It was resuming every 1m to 10min The total suspended time percentage was 90% Do these numbers seem normal? Chris was mentioning the other day about the additional power consumed to resume the XO. I can assume that resuming/suspending at a regular basis is not very power efficient. Also, this script made it easy to examine what happens to timeouts that are interrupted with suspends. The result is that the suspended time extends the timeout. The timeout does not expire relative to the absolute time, but the time the CPU is alive. So if a 10min timeout is interrupted by a 2min suspend, the timeout will expire 12min after the point it was executed. Scott, does this agree with what you expected? suspendtime Description: Binary data ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
Came across this rather amazing item the other day, and instantly thought this might be a very, very useful power/recharging mechanism for the XO... A lamp powered by gravity producing 40 watts over 4 hours...using gravity! :-) (Consider the XO using about 2 watts...) Not affected by weather/season/time of day (e.g. solar/wind) or behaviour (animal/cow) or location, etc. An unlimited power source available anywhere anytime! Could this mechanism (which apparently is more durable than the LEDs in the lamp!) be modified to power and/or recharge the XO batteries, etc.? A preliminary article about the gravity lamp can be found here (from Virginia Tech): http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/story.php?relyear=2008itemno=111 Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO and email
I don't have anything too useful to contribute, I just wanted to say that it would be great if you could make a new activity. I looked into making one based on Tinymail as my initial get-to-know-sugar exercise, but I have ended up working on Develop. I only saw enough to see that tinymail is really a large set of useful components, you have to glue everything together yourself. Therefore, if you are creating an innovative interface, and if you're up to it, it may be just as effective to shop around for the components you really need (such as Dovecot) and then do more in your own application, rather than learning all the bits of tinymail. Reduce the surface area of contact between your code and foreign code, as it were. This is great that somebody is doing this. On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Asheesh Laroia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Shikhar wrote: Hi, I would like to get the general feeling about the XO and email. There is a Gmail activity but no possibility of composing and viewing emails offline, which I think is important. I think that might be nice also! - With Python, an email activity can be accomplished with the RFC-compliant email modules (for POP, SMTP, IMAP, MIME) and using sqlite for storage. So while building upon Tinymail (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tinymail) is an idea, it makes sense to just go with Python email modules and sqlite if the next point is to be implemented :-) You suggest using sqlite for storage, and further, as I understand it, writing your own mail storage layer. But on the other hand, you could use an existing top-notch Free Software mail store, like Dovecot. Dovecot comes with full-text indexing for search of email, for example, and header caching to optimize common queries (Tell me all the From, Subject, To, and Date headers). That's my main contribution to this thread - I fear you won't re-use some already great software. The rest of your suggestions could perhaps be implemented as Dovecot plugins to minimize wasted work; for the most part, I agree with them. (-: Once you start thinking of this in terms of interoperability with existing mail systems, I think you'll find you have way less work to do. For example: - Email threading: there is some Python code at http://www.amk.ca/python/code/jwz, which could be adapted Built-into IMAP, which Dovecot implements. - Search using sql queries I have a good mental picture of what I want to do - maybe I am not communicating it too well, but I am willing to elaborate. I would really like your feedback especially on the fundamental idea of using Python email modules and sqlite in case I am thinking in the wrong direction, although this appears to me to be the best approach IMAP provides SEARCH TEXT, which Dovecot can now (as of 1.1.rc1) store an index for, and therefore return answers in split-second times in many cases. -- Asheesh. -- You're already carrying the sphere! ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Suspended time vs Resumed time in an idle XO
I have noticed that an idle machine will resume for some time, and suspend again, several times for no reason. I wrote a simple script that checks every 1sec whether the machine is suspended on not. It gives a timeline of Suspended times and Resumed times. A left an XO completely idle overnight for 12h. The results were: It resumed about 80 times It was resuming every 1m to 10min The total suspended time percentage was 90% Do these numbers seem normal? Chris was mentioning the other day about the additional power consumed to resume the XO. I can assume that resuming/suspending at a regular basis is not very power efficient. Also, this script made it easy to examine what happens to timeouts that are interrupted with suspends. The result is that the suspended time extends the timeout. The timeout does not expire relative to the absolute time, but the time the CPU is alive. So if a 10min timeout is interrupted by a 2min suspend, the timeout will expire 12min after the point it was executed. Scott, does this agree with what you expected? suspendtime.sh Description: Bourne shell script ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Ed Montgomery wrote: Came across this rather amazing item the other day, and instantly thought this might be a very, very useful power/recharging mechanism for the XO... A lamp powered by gravity producing 40 watts over 4 hours...using gravity! :-) (Consider the XO using about 2 watts...) this isn't producing 40 watts of power, it's producing light roughly equivalent to a 40 watt light bulb. super high power LEDs are about 10x as efficiant, lower power LEDs are even more efficiant. so this is going to produce 4w, possibly as low as 2w Not affected by weather/season/time of day (e.g. solar/wind) or behaviour (animal/cow) or location, etc. An unlimited power source available anywhere anytime! Could this mechanism (which apparently is more durable than the LEDs in the lamp!) be modified to power and/or recharge the XO batteries, etc.? the durability of this mechanism is theoretical at this point. and while it avoids the problems you describe above it gains it's own set (lots of fine cut gears, the need for smooth surfaces for the weight to slide on, etc) I'm not saying that this isn't a useful concept, but it's not perfect A preliminary article about the gravity lamp can be found here (from Virginia Tech): http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/story.php?relyear=2008itemno=111 an additional possible problem is the patent that they are trying to get on the mechanism. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Suspended time vs Resumed time in an idle XO
Yanni, But we should note that, not everything that expires, does so because of a timer. A cache entry may have an associated timestamp and expire in timestamp + ttl. I have noticed that an idle machine will resume for some time, and suspend again, several times for no reaso The result is that the suspended time extends the timeout. The timeout does not expire relative to the absolute time, but the time the CPU is alive. So if a 10min timeout is interrupted by a 2min suspend, the timeout will expire 12min after the point it was executed. Scott, does this agree with what you expected? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
Ed Montgomery wrote: hours...using gravity! :-) (Consider the XO using about 2 watts...) Where did you see that the XO uses only 2 Watts? Thats only when suspended. Suspended: 2W Running: 5-7W Charging the battery: 16W -- Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard A. Smith wrote: Where did you see that the XO uses only 2 Watts? Thats only when suspended. Suspended: 2W Running: 5-7W Charging the battery: 16W Doesn't it only use 2W-ish when it's in monochrome, screen refresh-only mode? --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Staffing of an OLPC Booth at PyCon, volunteers needed
I'll be at PyCon after all (yay TOPP!). I'm not sure exactly when and where and what I'm doing yet, but if someone keeps me in the loop, I'll gladly help with OLPC stuff at PyCon as best as I'm able. I'm sure others will be drifting around as well. -Mel On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This makes three for the OLPC booth at PyCon. Ed Cherlin Mike Fletcher Karen Smith Others may put their hands up. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard A. Smith wrote: Where did you see that the XO uses only 2 Watts? Thats only when suspended. Suspended: 2W Running: 5-7W Charging the battery: 16W Doesn't it only use 2W-ish when it's in monochrome, screen refresh-only mode? That would be suspended. which is sort of a largeish category. There's backlight on/off, wlan on/off flavors of that that use various amounts of power. So I guess suspended really should be 1-2W. If anything kicks in the CPU then its about 3.5W. I've had a few people recently throw out this 2W number and I want to make user that its not published somewhere as the XO power draw cause its not that simple. -- Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, in that mode it's down around .2W-ish I think in color, screen only mode it's ~1w Again whats your source for this info? Because its news to me. -- Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Staffing of an OLPC Booth at PyCon, volunteers needed
just a word of warning, at SCALE the OLPCs were the hit of the show. you may end up finding that you spend a lot more time talking about them than you ever imagined. (depending on what else you are trying to do this may or may not be a problem) one thing that will be extremely useful is if a FAQ can be put togeather with the correct answers for everyone to provide when asked. everyone does their best to answer the questions correctly, but there's pleanty of room for mistakes. simple start of FAQ list (just the questions for now) system specs expandibility does it have wireless where are they being deployed how can someone (or some orginization) get them price various questions about the G1G1 program (how many were purchased, why was the program stopped, will it re-open, what about overseas, why haven't all of them been delivered) battery life what new technology is in it why is this better than the EEPC/classmate/surplus PC/etc can you run other software on it how can you develop for it without getting one how do you open the [EMAIL PROTECTED]@# thing (especially amusing when you hand them the open laptop, they close it and can't re-open it) what are the two squares to the side of the touchpad where is the crank (if OLPC can spare some sample chargers to display at the booth it would be wonderful) things to demo pippy distance (if you can make it work reliably) measure camera browser network view chat decide if you are going to have the machines on a mesh with each other, or on an access point so they can connect to the Internet (I would say have them connect to the Internet unless there is some specific reason to not do so) David Lang On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Mel Chua wrote: I'll be at PyCon after all (yay TOPP!). I'm not sure exactly when and where and what I'm doing yet, but if someone keeps me in the loop, I'll gladly help with OLPC stuff at PyCon as best as I'm able. I'm sure others will be drifting around as well. -Mel On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This makes three for the OLPC booth at PyCon. Ed Cherlin Mike Fletcher Karen Smith Others may put their hands up. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard A. Smith wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, in that mode it's down around .2W-ish I think in color, screen only mode it's ~1w Again whats your source for this info? Because its news to me. http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml LCD power consumption: 0.1 Watt with backlight off; 0.2-1.0 Watt with backlight on; in full e-book mode the display unit is the only thing getting power (radio off, cpu fully suspended) David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again whats your source for this info? Because its news to me. http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml LCD power consumption: 0.1 Watt with backlight off; 0.2-1.0 Watt with backlight on; David Lang You are misinterpreting that. That is the display _only_. Not the system power. in full e-book mode the display unit is the only thing getting power (radio off, cpu fully suspended) And the EC, the memory, various pull up/down resistors, and few other suspend voltage regulators. All these add up to a non-trivial amount. Claiming that the power draw of the display unit in e-book is the system of draw of the laptop is inaccurate. It will be close if you were to throw up a page and let it sit there and never touch it. But the moment you engage the cpu to flip a page you draw 5-7x more power. The average draw then depends on how may pages you flip. We do not yet have any metrics for what that will work out to be. -- Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard A. Smith wrote: Where did you see that the XO uses only 2 Watts? Thats only when suspended. Suspended: 2W Running: 5-7W Charging the battery: 16W Doesn't it only use 2W-ish when it's in monochrome, screen refresh-only mode? no, in that mode it's down around .2W-ish I think in color, screen only mode it's ~1w David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Suspended time vs Resumed time in an idle XO
It is possible indeed. We have to check. I will try to test how it works with avahi. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Ricardo Carrano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yanni, But we should note that, not everything that expires, does so because of a timer. A cache entry may have an associated timestamp and expire in timestamp + ttl. I have noticed that an idle machine will resume for some time, and suspend again, several times for no reaso The result is that the suspended time extends the timeout. The timeout does not expire relative to the absolute time, but the time the CPU is alive. So if a 10min timeout is interrupted by a 2min suspend, the timeout will expire 12min after the point it was executed. Scott, does this agree with what you expected? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On 22.02.2008 23:41, Ben Goetter wrote: hours...using gravity! :-) (Consider the XO using about 2 watts...) There seems little danger of this mechanism being useful on Earth for the XO-1. A 30kg human child who can move her own mass a meter vertically (via a series of pulleys, or perhaps just climbing stairs with a buddy riding piggyback etc.) If the child has a mass of 30 kg, why should he/she carry anything else piggyback one meter upwards to gain 300 J of potential gravitational energy (assuming g=10 m/s^2)? The child already gets that potential enery if it climbs the stairs alone. can invoke only 300J of potential gravitational energy, or enough to let an XO sleep for two and a half minutes assuming a 100% efficient conversion from gravitational to electrical potential. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard A. Smith wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again whats your source for this info? Because its news to me. http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml LCD power consumption: 0.1 Watt with backlight off; 0.2-1.0 Watt with backlight on; David Lang You are misinterpreting that. That is the display _only_. Not the system power. in full e-book mode the display unit is the only thing getting power (radio off, cpu fully suspended) And the EC, the memory, various pull up/down resistors, and few other suspend voltage regulators. All these add up to a non-trivial amount. you are not nessasarily going to be powering the system memory Claiming that the power draw of the display unit in e-book is the system of draw of the laptop is inaccurate. It will be close if you were to throw up a page and let it sit there and never touch it. But the moment you engage the cpu to flip a page you draw 5-7x more power. The average draw then depends on how may pages you flip. We do not yet have any metrics for what that will work out to be. if you flip one page every 5 seconds (a pretty fast reader) and for 1 second the system eats 5x the power of the display you end up with 0.2w of power. the rest of my quote that you clipped said that in full e-book mode the power consumption was ~0.2w. however, the initial source of the data was a presentation by Mary Lou Jespin at Usenix last year. however I can't just cite my memory, so I went looking on the website and found that snippet of information. however, it almost doesn't matter which of us is right. the mere fact that we are having this disagreement indicates a need for better documentation of this sort of info. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative power/recharging source?
On 22/02/08 17:12 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard A. Smith wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again whats your source for this info? Because its news to me. http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml LCD power consumption: 0.1 Watt with backlight off; 0.2-1.0 Watt with backlight on; David Lang You are misinterpreting that. That is the display _only_. Not the system power. in full e-book mode the display unit is the only thing getting power (radio off, cpu fully suspended) And the EC, the memory, various pull up/down resistors, and few other suspend voltage regulators. All these add up to a non-trivial amount. you are not nessasarily going to be powering the system memory Its very difficult to suspend to RAM when the RAM isn't there. We've tried. Jordan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Salut and Suspend/Resume issues (MDNS and LLMNR multicast)
I dropped a note to Bernard Aboba at Microsoft (a friend of a friend), coauthor of that RFC, who brought some clarity to the situation. His note is appended. What precedes it is my interpretation, and my question to him. Unfortunately, it appears to me to be an ugly situation. RFC 4795 does not cover mdns. It's a subset, which was the best they could push through the IETF: https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns/ Turns out this appears to be Apple and Microsoft building a protocol that isn't an IETF standard -- it's just in every Mac and many Windows machines. IETF documented it as Informational, with IESG commenters noting, A solution to this problem is useful. IETF should manage to provide a standards track approach to it. I do not believe that moving this forward gets us closer to having that or helps the longer term goals of having the IETF produce interoperable standards. And this is a result of a sub-optimal process. However, I think that it is better to publish the document in order to document the protocol. I agree with Ted that some sort of note would be appropriate, perhaps along the lines that 'the working group was not able to reach full consensus'. Bill Fenner said, The development of this document is something for the IETF to be ashamed of. I was unable to find any protocol description for the alleged power- saving Sleep Proxy service that was in early drafts. It appears in multicastdns-04 and in the current multicastdns draft. It has disappeared from the LLMNR drafts and RFC 4795. But a web search did turn up US patents 7,246,225 and 7,107,442 issued Sept 12, 2006 and July 17, 2007, to MulticastDNS Internet-Draft author Stuart Cheshire, assignee Apple. Both entitled Method and apparatus for implementing a sleep proxy for services on a network. Neither one mentions MDNS or LLMNR (though Rendezvous is briefly mentioned). Not only did Apple patent the concept of answering for a sleeping device (printer), they also bizarrely patent the concept of having instructions in a computer memory device that could, if ever executed, answer for a sleeping device! I have a copy of draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04.txt, dated 14th February 2004 and submitted to an IETF working group (dnsext). It mentions the Sleep Proxy and refers readers to an unsubmitted separate protocol description. This obligated Mr. Cheshire to disclose his patents and patent applications to the IETF Secretariat, according to Best Current Practice 79 (RFC 3979) -- which he did not do: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?option=rfc_searchrfc_search=4795 https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?option=wg_searchwg_search=dnsext https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?option=patent_searchpatent_search=Apple No IETF IPR submissions by Mr. Cheshire have appeared at all, though Apple did make other IETF IPR submissions about other Zeroconf patents. Looks like the IETF has been foxed again, hosting a protocol that awakens every computer on the LAN for every DNS query, designed by a guy and company who secretly patented the concept of doing it without burning up your battery. He failed to notify the IETF of the pending or issued patents. And did you notice that Apple and Microsoft have cross-licensed their entire patent portfolio to each other, but not to the rest of us? http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1997/Aug97/MSMACpr.mspx We are thrilled at the prospect of working more closely with Microsoft on applications and Internet software said Jobs. We are confident that this is the beginning of a much closer relationship between the two companies, which will greatly benefit our common customers. John From: John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:16 AM To: Bernard Aboba; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MDNS and power management Hi Bernard, Is it true that MDNS (RFC 4795) requires every host on an adhoc network to listen to (and ignore) every DNS query that every other host produces? I would've expected that any serious protocol would have learned the lesson that ARP taught IPv6 NDP: Hash the request into a multicast address that will partition the set of listeners, so that only those who actually have a high probability of responding will even see your packet. In the absence of this, every battery-powered device on the local link would have to wake out of low power mode, look at every DNS packet, and then go back to sleep. Is MDNS in use in any products? IETF lists it as Informational, not standards-track. Thanks... John From: Bernard Aboba [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MDNS and power management Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:15:26 -0800 Some comments: a. LLMNR (RFC 4795) is largely a subset of the MDNS protocol included in Bonjour. At this point both protocols are supported within Apple's MDNS responder, but they behave slightly differently with respect to use of
Preparing the XOs for next week's test
A couple of stuff for the next week's test. 1. We have about 45 XOs in the conference room, and we can make it up to 80 by collecting other XOs in the office. Do you think this is enough? 2. I will try to update all of them with the build we will agree to initially test with. This would be 693/D13? There is a new version of telepathy-salut in 1721, which apparently only fixes smth related to stream tube flush(which i dont know what it is). I dont believe it important to our test. Other than that Update.1 i think should be ok. 3. I can also disable suspend/resume in all of them in case we decide we dont wanna have it enabled. It will save alot of time by doing it on monday. If there is anything you think might be useful to prepare in advance, let me know! ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
