Re: DrGeo sluggish
will have to get back to you later on this Hilaire. sorry to raise issue and not provide more info. our teacher training starts tomorrow On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 14:39 +0100, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: Bryan, I change the subject. Please elaborate what is exactly sluggish because from my own usability test with DrGeoII on a XO laptop B4, I did not find it sluggish. Really I just try now, and I don't see where it is sluggish (expect the loading time). Are you using the XO bundle available from the DrGeoII wiki page? It will be helpful if you explain what exactly lead to sluggish experience. Also, I am interested by feedbacks from other users. As a test, I wrote this programmed figure, picture at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:DrGeo3.png It results in arecursive interactive figure with more than 300 geometric objects rendered in real time. The calculus of the figure takes about 10s (the workaround for the incomplete implementation of the Squeak closure may take a lot of the needed time for the calculus) but then the rendering is pretty fast considering the CPU (no floating point unit) Hilaire 2008/3/27, Bryan Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hilaire, I expected it to start slowly but then found it quite sluggish, esp. compared to regular etoys. just browsing the menus was fairly sluggish On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 08:19 +0100, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: 2008/3/26, Bryan Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dr. Geo II - v.104 does run but really, really slowly To be accurate the slowish comes from the load time in Squeak because DrGeo Smalltalk code is compiled at each load time. I will fix it in one way or the other. In the other hand , once loaded (compiled I should write) DrGeo is pretty fast. Hilaire ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Testing Update.1-702
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could we possibly get a signed 704 out the door tomorrow for testing in Peru and Mexico? We'll do what we can. What changes do you want to see in 704? (After reviewing Jim's bug list, I just discovered #6185 STK jg/sayamindu (translate devkey request page) [5 weeks] which might be worth fixing.) On it. I have no straightforward way to get the POT, but I have managed to generate a POT manually and will be putting it up in Pootle. I went through the test reports, and I'm a bit surprised wrt the translation stuff: 1. Apart from Etoys, theoretically activities such as Write and TamTam should be fully translated into Spanish. Are these the latest versions ? Stats are online at https://dev.laptop.org/translate/es/ 2. There are some activities which are not translated, since they are not on Pootle. If these are to be deployed (do we any such list ?), please file a ticket on dev.laptop.org against component localization, and assign it to me. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Tkinter in olpc
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:09 PM, Aaron Konstam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have and opinion on whether python's Tkinter facility could be added to python on the XO by simply copying the contents of lib-tk from an f7 system? Don't know much about tkinter, but you could try shipping lib-tk inside your activity bundle. Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Monday's Testing
Hi Wad, et al, I think some use cases and requirements definition would be helpful here. I don't think the field understands clearly what Mesh and collaboration support and that can lead to misalignment of design and usage. Here is an example of possible use case definition, hopefully relevant variables for SW design: 1 - School has server and Active Antenna (AA) (1,2, or 3) (example? maybe Uruguay) 2 - School has wireless AP and server (Nepal) 3 - School has wireless AP and no server (Cambodia) 4 - School has no wireless AP or server (aka no internet ala some schools in Peru) 5 - School has n (50, 100, 150, 200) Xos on simultaneously 6 - XO closest to AP or AA providing intermediate hop to internet for Xos (1, 2, 3 max? hops away) 7 - n (50, 100, 150) Xos in class and m laptops providing intermediate hops to internet (I can also see a whole bunch of tree cases and combinations of roots and branches getting to the internet). Looking at the collaboration layer (may need Mesh, ad hoc and eJabber versions, may also need AP, AA and no net versions, not sure) 8 - n (1,2,3 max?) classes of students of m each (up to 50?) using XO simultaneously. Classes are x feet apart and Xos 2 feet apart within a class (does physical granularity matter at this level?). No need to Mesh (L2) or collaborate (L5?) between classes. (different subnets?) 9 - One class in the school yard with kids running around and two others in class. Means XOs turned on and off and moving closer and farther away rapidly (my twins out ran me at 3 years old I hope 50 x 3rd graders can't out run the dynamic mesh :-) 10 - Two students sharing a book or activity with each other *25 (max?) for all pairs of students in class. 11 - Teacher sharing an activity with all 50 students *n classes within a school (1,2,3,4, n) (also list activities if relevant - e.g. web browsing vs. others?) 12 - Two students watching a video (don't know if its supported, but find high BW and low BW examples) *25 for class 13 - Teacher sharing video with all students (same note as above) 14 - 1/2 class sharing high BW, half sharing low BW activities 15 - Students form groups of 3 - 5 who all share (low and high BW) activities *n groups per class. Groups forming and dividing rapidly at start then settling down. 16 - Everyone turns on XO at the same time *n (50, 100, 150 etc). Class starts with 2 - 3 Xos firing up every minute for 10 minutes. Another class in range has all 50 Xos on already. Etc. I hope I didn't munge my mesh and collaboration layers too much. My point is that at the end of this testing you need to have some clear, user understandable supported setups. Nail one or two, bound them well, and say they are supported. Also, define what supported means. For example: A - Works with same speed as XO solo or works %x slower B - Access internet takes up to 50 seconds for first packet out and latency of .1 second after that per XO hop away from AP C- Mouse move on one XO has y latency to appear on second XO and y + z latency to appear on n (1) Xos. Etc. Nail a few supported uses and we can drive everyone to start with those. Even better, give general guidelines and list unsupported uses. That's a quick brainstorm on my part but I haven't actually used XO to collaborate. Ask the schools and educators how they use it or want to use it. It takes a long time to develop a meaningful dialog but find some representative users who get back to you quickly for starters. If all of these use cases are supported, that's great as long as they all work. You should still say what is supported at the user level as people will have other ideas that we never even thought of... Way too much work to do before Monday but think of one or two cases you know work after this testing. Then ask educators if they fit. Then we tell all customers to start with that! HTHs. Thanks, Greg S *** Wad - Some people will say that reactive protocols are bursty and route acquisition time is long. I don't disagree. But I believe we have room for improvement without any radical (and costly) change. The key is to adapt. We are very focused now on dense clouds (for good reasons), but our parameters are sub-optimal for this scenario. In a dense scenario, we should: 1 - Eliminate probe responses 2 - Increase contention window 3 - Increase route expiration time 4 - Increase multicast transmission rate My suggestion for the Cambrige testbed is: 1 - Validade probe response driver patch submitted by Marvell and implement it 2 - Increase contention window from 7,31 ro 31, 1023 3 - Increase route expiration time from 10 to 20 seconds 4 - Increase mcast rate from 2 to 11 Mbps. All of the above are trade offs and should be considered in dense mesh scenarios only. Based on what I see in my own testbed, they will reduce the duration of bursts and also make you more resilient to them. *** It is safe to change these values on the fly. Marvell was discussing doing it
Re: Monday's Testing
Martin, David, There is the detection of a school server _and_ there is the detection of mesh density. Different issues (both present at Wad's testbed). And, there is also detection of an infra-structure. From a high-level perspective NetworkManager keeps a state machine that should tell us where we are. From a layer two pov, Michalis already pointed out that this can be implemented at firmware level. So the tweakings will be transparent to upper layers. An example of higher level tweak is switching from Jabber (and shutting down Salut) when possible. Here you have to be careful with the back and forth issue you mention. -- Ricardo Carrano On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: 2008/3/27 Ricardo Carrano [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My suggestion for the Cambrige testbed is: 1 - Validade probe response driver patch submitted by Marvell and implement it 2 - Increase contention window from 7,31 ro 31, 1023 3 - Increase route expiration time from 10 to 20 seconds 4 - Increase mcast rate from 2 to 11 Mbps. All of the above are trade offs and should be considered in dense mesh scenarios only. Based on what I see in my own testbed, they will reduce the duration of bursts and also make you more resilient to them. Hi Ricardo, if this improves the behaviour in dense mesh scenarios, am I right in thinking we'll be looking at - from a high-level pov - changing contention window, route expiration and mcast rate dynamically on the XOs when they see the school server antenna with a strong signal, and then again when they lose sight of it. I am not familiar with the mesh driver so this may be a stupid question - is it safe to change those values on the fly? The switch-modes decision logic could be tricky - needs data from different network layers - needs tuning to avoid having ranges where we switch back-and-forth still getting to grips with how the mesh works - hopefully the above makes sense ;-) it may be that it's not a case of 'mode A' vs 'mode B' but is instead a continuous function based on how many other nodes that it sees. with small changes based on the number of nodes it won't matter much if it bounces around as the number of nodes change (as long as it doesn't waste a lot of power to make the change) David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OLPC security project
Hi all, Does anyone know of any security-related projects that need to be worked on for OLPC? I am taking a computer and network security class, and I was thinking that Bitfrost would be an interesting topic for a final project we have. I poked around the wiki, but I couldn't find a security todo list. Thanks! Jeremy Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Trouble with Gtk+ program
Hi While trying to run an executable file in OLPC, it is showing a segmentation fault. A simple gtk+ program. Actually it has been compiled it in a normal system with Fedora core 7. Make it an executable file by compiling it with gcc in that system. Took this file to OLPC via USB and tried to run their using the command: ./test where test is the output file. Please suggest a method to make it work in the OLPC. aswathy ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC security project
Our presence algorithms should be evaluated in terms of security (impersonation, dos, mim, etc). A list of vulnerabilities should be analyzed and solutions should be proposed. More details will follow if interested. p. Jeremy Flores wrote: Hi all, Does anyone know of any security-related projects that need to be worked on for OLPC? I am taking a computer and network security class, and I was thinking that Bitfrost would be an interesting topic for a final project we have. I poked around the wiki, but I couldn't find a security todo list. Thanks! Jeremy Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Testing Update.1-702
Denis wrote: I ran through the smoke test today. I used update.1-703 I had one spanish and one english XO I had some keymap errors in X the console was fixed with the kbd update http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6776 I had one issue with Read, Ive not yet filed a bug on it. I created a document in write. Put a picture in the middle with text on top. shared it between XO's. Which all worked fine. I copied to a usb key and opened on the the other XO. The image was left aligned. I wanted to repeat the test before filing a bug. --- This one of those bugs fixed in abiword-2.6.0 that I was talking about a few days ago. There are many more. Cheers Martin ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Trouble with Gtk+ program
May be you have missing libraries.. Try to check the dependencies of your programm with: ldd your-programm I have tried several GTK+ programs I install from standard Ferdora archive for OLPC, and it works. Hilaire 2008/3/28, Aswathy Prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi While trying to run an executable file in OLPC, it is showing a segmentation fault. A simple gtk+ program. Actually it has been compiled it in a normal system with Fedora core 7. Make it an executable file by compiling it with gcc in that system. Took this file to OLPC via USB and tried to run their using the command: ./test where test is the output file. Please suggest a method to make it work in the OLPC. aswathy ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC security project
We just (in a somewhat terse manner) posted a status for the various Bitfrost components in the wiki (See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bitfrost#Current_Status). Perhaps you will find your inspiration there. -walter On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our presence algorithms should be evaluated in terms of security (impersonation, dos, mim, etc). A list of vulnerabilities should be analyzed and solutions should be proposed. More details will follow if interested. p. Jeremy Flores wrote: Hi all, Does anyone know of any security-related projects that need to be worked on for OLPC? I am taking a computer and network security class, and I was thinking that Bitfrost would be an interesting topic for a final project we have. I poked around the wiki, but I couldn't find a security todo list. Thanks! Jeremy Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Walter Bender One Laptop per Child http://laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE:Subject: OLPC security project
He Jeremy, Here's one for you (school server security audit): http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/1506 A nessus scan seems like a good start but you may know better tools. I'm a volunteer so any suggestions from developers working on deployments would take higher priority. Thanks, Greg S -- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:27:07 -0400 From: Jeremy Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OLPC security project To: devel@lists.laptop.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi all, Does anyone know of any security-related projects that need to be worked on for OLPC? I am taking a computer and network security class, and I was thinking that Bitfrost would be an interesting topic for a final project we have. I poked around the wiki, but I couldn't find a security todo list. Thanks! Jeremy Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 1811
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1811 Changes in build 1811 from build: 1807 Size delta: 0.13M -telepathy-salut 0.2.3-1.olpc2 +telepathy-salut 0.2.3-2.olpc2 -Chat 35 +Chat 36 --- Changes for telepathy-salut 0.2.3-2.olpc2 from 0.2.3-1.olpc2 --- + dev.laptop.org #6782: Improve debug info when joining a muc --- Changes for Chat 36 from 35 --- + Post Update.1 release + Updated translations + Update pippy metadata based on Pippy + Open URLs via show_object_in_journal + Reduce telepathy code based on improved PS channel creation API + #6743: border around gtk.entry + Add license to activity.py + #6621: set entry sensitive not editable + #5053: Reduce white space around boxes -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Testing Update.1-702
Walter found a problem with Chat when using an open AP between two laptops. The Chat invitation shows after the first one shares it, but when the second laptop clicks on it, that opens a new chat -- it doesn't open the shared one. THey can't chat. It worked in simple mesh and school server mesh. Walter - please tell us if this is a show stopper for Update.1 -- especially given that we are pushing for AP in some deployments. If so, we should make sure someone is looking at that one first. Without knowing exactly when this regressed (I hope to try it on some 699 laptops), it isn't clear how quickly it can get fixed. Is there a trac item for this, Walter? Kim On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis wrote: I ran through the smoke test today. I used update.1-703 I had one spanish and one english XO I had some keymap errors in X the console was fixed with the kbd update http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6776 I had one issue with Read, Ive not yet filed a bug on it. I created a document in write. Put a picture in the middle with text on top. shared it between XO's. Which all worked fine. I copied to a usb key and opened on the the other XO. The image was left aligned. I wanted to repeat the test before filing a bug. --- This one of those bugs fixed in abiword-2.6.0 that I was talking about a few days ago. There are many more. Cheers Martin ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Testing Update.1-702
I'll create a ticket. It is a blocker. -walter On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Kim Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Walter found a problem with Chat when using an open AP between two laptops. The Chat invitation shows after the first one shares it, but when the second laptop clicks on it, that opens a new chat -- it doesn't open the shared one. THey can't chat. It worked in simple mesh and school server mesh. Walter - please tell us if this is a show stopper for Update.1 -- especially given that we are pushing for AP in some deployments. If so, we should make sure someone is looking at that one first. Without knowing exactly when this regressed (I hope to try it on some 699 laptops), it isn't clear how quickly it can get fixed. Is there a trac item for this, Walter? Kim On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis wrote: I ran through the smoke test today. I used update.1-703 I had one spanish and one english XO I had some keymap errors in X the console was fixed with the kbd update http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6776 I had one issue with Read, Ive not yet filed a bug on it. I created a document in write. Put a picture in the middle with text on top. shared it between XO's. Which all worked fine. I copied to a usb key and opened on the the other XO. The image was left aligned. I wanted to repeat the test before filing a bug. --- This one of those bugs fixed in abiword-2.6.0 that I was talking about a few days ago. There are many more. Cheers Martin ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Walter Bender One Laptop per Child http://laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] [sugar] Testing Update.1-702
Hi, Walter found a problem with Chat when using an open AP between two laptops. The Chat invitation shows after the first one shares it, but when the second laptop clicks on it, that opens a new chat -- it doesn't open the shared one. THey can't chat. It worked in simple mesh and school server mesh. Walter - please tell us if this is a show stopper for Update.1 -- especially given that we are pushing for AP in some deployments. If so, we should make sure someone is looking at that one first. Without knowing exactly when this regressed (I hope to try it on some 699 laptops), it isn't clear how quickly it can get fixed. This seems to be http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6739 -- the symptom of Activity launched, but claims to be Private matches exactly, and I've seen this on both Write and Read. This is the bug I mentioned in the meeting as not being limited to Read. We should check Walter's logs to confirm: if it is this bug, we'll see: 1206139420.701489 DEBUG root: Failed to join activity: [...] in the Chat.log. Please attach the .tar.bz2 created by running olpc-netlog to #6739, and I'll take a look. I don't know whether this is a regression -- the current theory in the bug is that we're simply not receiving packets from the network. I'll be testing that theory by posting a log of network traffic during a failure today. - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New faster build 1811
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build1811 Changes in build 1811 from build: 1807 Size delta: -0.13M -telepathy-salut 0.2.3-1.olpc2 +telepathy-salut 0.2.3-2.olpc2 -Chat 35 +Chat 36 --- Changes for telepathy-salut 0.2.3-2.olpc2 from 0.2.3-1.olpc2 --- + dev.laptop.org #6782: Improve debug info when joining a muc --- Changes for Chat 36 from 35 --- + Post Update.1 release + Updated translations + Update pippy metadata based on Pippy + Open URLs via show_object_in_journal + Reduce telepathy code based on improved PS channel creation API + #6743: border around gtk.entry + Add license to activity.py + #6621: set entry sensitive not editable + #5053: Reduce white space around boxes -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/faster-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Howto access an activity sub-directory?
I am trying to get at a resource in my activities fonts sub-directory. My activity finds it just fine when running under Sugar but can't find it with the same code when running in a shell. self.fontPath = os.path.join( 'fonts', 'DesiredResouce.ttf' ) self.desiredFont = pygame.font.Font( self.fontPath, 96 ) Any suggestions? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Howto access an activity sub-directory?
On 28.03.2008, at 19:48, Kent Loobey wrote: I am trying to get at a resource in my activities fonts sub- directory. My activity finds it just fine when running under Sugar but can't find it with the same code when running in a shell. self.fontPath = os.path.join( 'fonts', 'DesiredResouce.ttf' ) self.desiredFont = pygame.font.Font( self.fontPath, 96 ) Any suggestions? Maybe http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6286 ? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Monday's Testing
thanks for the list of conditions On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Greg Smith (gregmsmi) wrote: Hi Wad, et al, I think some use cases and requirements definition would be helpful here. I don't think the field understands clearly what Mesh and collaboration support and that can lead to misalignment of design and usage. Here is an example of possible use case definition, hopefully relevant variables for SW design: 1 - School has server and Active Antenna (AA) (1,2, or 3) (example? maybe Uruguay) 2 - School has wireless AP and server (Nepal) 3 - School has wireless AP and no server (Cambodia) 4 - School has no wireless AP or server (aka no internet ala some schools in Peru) 5 - School has n (50, 100, 150, 200) Xos on simultaneously should the mesh even be used in a high-density school setting? (even with an AA), or should the XOs basicly operate in infrastructure mode where they route everything through the AA or AP? if the density is high enough everything is within 1 RF hop (or 2 RF hops, one to the AA/AP, and another back out over a different channel) in these conditions should the XO even try to route through another XO? David Lang 6 - XO closest to AP or AA providing intermediate hop to internet for Xos (1, 2, 3 max? hops away) 7 - n (50, 100, 150) Xos in class and m laptops providing intermediate hops to internet (I can also see a whole bunch of tree cases and combinations of roots and branches getting to the internet). Looking at the collaboration layer (may need Mesh, ad hoc and eJabber versions, may also need AP, AA and no net versions, not sure) 8 - n (1,2,3 max?) classes of students of m each (up to 50?) using XO simultaneously. Classes are x feet apart and Xos 2 feet apart within a class (does physical granularity matter at this level?). No need to Mesh (L2) or collaborate (L5?) between classes. (different subnets?) 9 - One class in the school yard with kids running around and two others in class. Means XOs turned on and off and moving closer and farther away rapidly (my twins out ran me at 3 years old I hope 50 x 3rd graders can't out run the dynamic mesh :-) 10 - Two students sharing a book or activity with each other *25 (max?) for all pairs of students in class. 11 - Teacher sharing an activity with all 50 students *n classes within a school (1,2,3,4, n) (also list activities if relevant - e.g. web browsing vs. others?) 12 - Two students watching a video (don't know if its supported, but find high BW and low BW examples) *25 for class 13 - Teacher sharing video with all students (same note as above) 14 - 1/2 class sharing high BW, half sharing low BW activities 15 - Students form groups of 3 - 5 who all share (low and high BW) activities *n groups per class. Groups forming and dividing rapidly at start then settling down. 16 - Everyone turns on XO at the same time *n (50, 100, 150 etc). Class starts with 2 - 3 Xos firing up every minute for 10 minutes. Another class in range has all 50 Xos on already. Etc. I hope I didn't munge my mesh and collaboration layers too much. My point is that at the end of this testing you need to have some clear, user understandable supported setups. Nail one or two, bound them well, and say they are supported. Also, define what supported means. For example: A - Works with same speed as XO solo or works %x slower B - Access internet takes up to 50 seconds for first packet out and latency of .1 second after that per XO hop away from AP C- Mouse move on one XO has y latency to appear on second XO and y + z latency to appear on n (1) Xos. Etc. Nail a few supported uses and we can drive everyone to start with those. Even better, give general guidelines and list unsupported uses. That's a quick brainstorm on my part but I haven't actually used XO to collaborate. Ask the schools and educators how they use it or want to use it. It takes a long time to develop a meaningful dialog but find some representative users who get back to you quickly for starters. If all of these use cases are supported, that's great as long as they all work. You should still say what is supported at the user level as people will have other ideas that we never even thought of... Way too much work to do before Monday but think of one or two cases you know work after this testing. Then ask educators if they fit. Then we tell all customers to start with that! HTHs. Thanks, Greg S *** Wad - Some people will say that reactive protocols are bursty and route acquisition time is long. I don't disagree. But I believe we have room for improvement without any radical (and costly) change. The key is to adapt. We are very focused now on dense clouds (for good reasons), but our parameters are sub-optimal for this scenario. In a dense scenario, we should: 1 - Eliminate probe responses 2 - Increase contention window 3 - Increase route expiration time 4 - Increase multicast transmission
Mini-conference on Apr 3/4!
We've gotten 9 proposals for our mini-conference, and I know of two and a half more which haven't yet hit devel@ (Walter/Kim, Michael, and Martin, on build process, Bitfrost, and school servers). Since most of the participants are local, we'll be having our conference at the OLPC offices at 1 Cambridge Center next Thursday and Friday (April 3 and 4). Tentative plan is for talks from 12-6pm, then dinner, and then informal discussion in the evenings. The community is welcome! One of my goals with this mini-conference is to encourage cross-pollination between the teams working on various technologies, and between developers and the community. To that end, we'll schedule each proposal in a ~1 hour window: a 30 minute talk, followed by no more than 30 minutes of discussion, then on to the next topic. The goal isn't to nail down every open question during the hour, but instead to start discussions which will continue in the evening and online. People who aren't terribly interested in a topic should be able to enjoy and learn from the structured talk without having to suffer through too much vigorous debate. I'd like to have webcasts of the talks for posting later, and/or for live streaming, if possible. Can anyone volunteer to help out with this? Martin will also be giving his school server half-a-talk from Buenos Aires, so remote-conferencing help would be useful. For proposers: I'd appreciate if you could organize your talks roughly as follows: * background material (what is a mesh network) * history current state of affairs (what currently works? what doesn't?) * open tasks, both simple matters of programming and hard problems no one has a clue about * concrete proposal for forward progress. The first two bullet points encourage the dissemmination of the bits of specialized knowledge that live in a few developers' heads, and insisting on a concrete proposal at the end will hopefully encourage productive discussion. More details as they're planned! Hope to see you all there! --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
[olpc-help] Update on XOs in Uruguay
Hi All, I had a call in February with Pablo a lead on the XO deployment in Uruguay. Here are some impressions and lessons learned from their experience. The main point is that the kids like to blog! We really need to hear from them too! They need some help making blogging easier. See below for ways to help make that happen. The XO roll out started in May in Villa Cardal with 150 children. Phase 2 is underway now. Targets for deployment are 150K XOs in 2008 and 300K in the field by the end of 2009. It went better than expected for the first 150 children and 6 teachers. Children used the XO much more when the teacher was motivated. Classes with younger children used it less than older children. Teachers had the choice about when they wanted to use the laptop. The only directives were: - The teacher chooses the moment the laptops are used. However, they are encouraged to use them. - The laptops are used as a tool. They don't substitute books and notepads, and the curriculum doesn't change. From the start, the teachers requested training on the XO. They expect to be trained on any new educational tools. The initial training is especially important to get off to a good start. They found it important to include the XO and its training in the normal structure of the educational system. There are a lot of traditions on how to do things, role of teacher, supervisor etc. and those need to be respected in order to avoid conflicts. The training is done by the IT department and teachers with specialization in ICTs for education. The emphasis is on how to teach with the XO, not the technical aspects of how the XO works. The teachers don't want to be technicians and are not comfortable with technology. That said, they have to be comfortable using the tool (XO). The best way to train in technology is to start with small groups. After that they created working teams to visit school during class time. The training workshops were repeated several times for each teacher. After a few training sessions, the teachers felt comfortable with the XO and didn't need further technical support. Teaming an educator and a technician was a great way get started. However, its a difficult model to scale. The target is one technician for each 1,000 children. That's a rough guess so we need to follow up to see how well that works. There is a vision of school based portals and regional and national sites for collaboration. Its not final where they will be hosted but some may be cached or served from the school while others are served centrally. They also have issues with managing teacher accounts and needing too many passwords. The portal design work is ongoing. There was a lot of interest in blogging but so far all Villa Cardal blog messages were given to a single technician who then posted them. See the Villa Cardal blogs at: http://www.blogger.com/profile/06134894806578234196 The kids want to keep on blogging! However UI issues are a barrier. Pablo and I wrote up an overview of the challenge and a set of requirements to address them at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Requiremientos_Para_XO Please comment and add to it as needed. They want help from the community to build new software to address these needs. I want to create a core team of supporters for this deployment. Whatever we learn here can be reused in other deployments. If you want to help, send me an e-mail or sign up at: http://groups.google.com/group/uruguay-XO-coordination We need developers, project managers, artists, UI designers, Spanish speakers and anyone else interested in helping out. If we can be responsive to this first request we can develop a close relationship and learn about how to make the XO a success around the world! Once we solve the blogging problem there are plenty of other challenges we can uncover and address as a team. Other technical and infrastructure comments: - School server is the gateway for all internet traffic for security (firewall/NAT and filtering). The filtering is done by Dansguardian. - There is no web caching done on the school server right now. - Each school in the project must have internet access. Most schools have 1 Mb/s. Cardal has 2 Mb/s. BW is set depending on size of the school. So far, no problems reported with internet access or bandwidth. That said, not all children can be connected at the same time. That problem was solved by teachers coordinating so that classes take turns using the WAN. - The mesh was not worked well but it is getting better with each build. They just started to use some mesh capabilities but in general it has not been a critical need and they don't currently use activities that require a mesh. - They have updated the laptops a few times using the automatic update. The updating system is not so easy... They're still working on it. Now, some updates are automatic, others not. - There has been a lot of demand to support Flash. Here are some other links on the XO
Develop app
It's getting to be time to share my work on Develop on this list. The latest
version is now up on the wiki. Below, I've pasted a copy of some relevant
text from that page. Please, try it out, and of course, all patches are
welcome.
Jameson
...copy from wiki page follows...
WARNINGS
Currently this version only edits activities that are stored in
~olpc/Activities, but that at least means that you can use it to develop
itself.
This saves modified versions of activities in the journal. In order to
continue editing these saved activity bundles, *you need to also install the
patched version of the journal called
Image:DoppelJournal-79.xohttp://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:DoppelJournal-79.xo
.*. (ticket *#6639* http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6639) In DoppelJournal,
go to the details page for your saved application bundle, put the mouse over
the resume button in the upper right, and wait a fraction of a second until
the pulldown shows the options Develop and Start. Develop works, but
start doesn't because bitfrost prevents DoppelJournal from reinstalling
the activity.
So in order to open these modified versions, you need to use your regular
journal. When you do, you run into ticket
*#6497*http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6497,
which means that you cannot run/test your modified activities unless you
change the version number in activity.info for each test.
Also, this app has been known to cause *TOTAL LOSS OF JOURNAL CONTENTS*. The
data is still on your XO, in /home/olpc/.sugar/default/datastore1234567890
(your numbers will be different). You can recover this data by copying it
onto an external USB and then letting the files be recognized by the
journal... (I think, I have not tried this yet. The problem is that the
files have no extension, but at least my Ubuntu system can guess the correct
file type for most.) I do not understand this bug and am not sure that it
still occurs with the latest version of Develop, but you have been warned.
This uses bundlebuilder.py to save its XO files. This means that if MANIFEST
is not correct, it can either fail to save, or fail to save all of its
files. Again, you have been warned. I have a plan to fix this, it is not too
hard.
The other known bugs are very minor issues that I already know how to fix as
soon as I get around to it. The F8 (big circle on the XO slider) key is
getting grabbed by the window manager in some cases, I have two identical
tabs of logs in some cases, and ignore-case in find is unimplemented.
Enough bad things, what is good about it?
It really works! Not just a toy.
Rudimentary version control, using the journal.
Good find/replace support, check out the UI (though there is still room for
improvement - search history, shift-fkeys to hard-open the palettes...).
F5-F8 (the circle-slider on the XO) are set find, find prev, find next, and
{set replace or, if replace was set since find, do replace}, respectively.
Ability to view log files from within the app. Better than logviewer, since
you can see logs from previous 4 sessions, and the list is filtered to the
ones relevant to your app.
___
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Re: [Server-devel] Reg: Google summer of Code under OLPC
Cross-posting to devel, as I believe there are other people and projects around blogging/wiki on the XO/XS. On Mar 28, 2008, at 4:27 PM, Greg Smith (gregmsmi) wrote: Hi Martin, Great advice, thanks! We're not tied to Google blogger at all. Just want to have an option to shout out to the world, somewhere. That looks like a winning design with minimal effort. Thanks, Greg S -Original Message- From: Martin Langhoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:15 PM To: Greg Smith (gregmsmi) Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Reg: Google summer of Code under OLPC On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Greg Smith (gregmsmi) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short the kids want to blog! I think we all need to hear their voices too. Hi Greg! I sure want to support blogging. My concern is the blogger tie-in. A simple suggestion - make the upstream blogging action pluggable. What I'd suggest - in very brief terms - is - blog on the XS (WP is ok, as would be Drupal, but do consider Moodle's blog facility, or the new 'oubog' moodle module) - the blog on the XS can have an option publish to the world... - which uses a simple pluggable mechanism to publish out... the basic pluggable module needs to have 1 function/method: post blog entry :-) (which returns the url of the blog entry on success?). In practice you might need a few more, for example a register account method if it can be automated... With that generic machinery in place, if provide a blogger.com plugin, that's great. Ideally I'd like to see other plugins that can be pointed to a standalone WP install on the internet, so a local education authority could run it. Just don't make it _tied_ to blogger.com -- which is a commercial, add supported service. There are good blog APIs so you don't actually need to - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaWeblog cheers, martin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Mini-Conference Proposal: Frameworks for Collaboration
Title: Frameworks for simultaneous and sequential collaboration Abstract: The OLPC sharing design encompasses two rough classes of sharing. In the simultaneous case, a number of students join a shared Activity and all edit a document together in real time. In the sequential case, students make local copies of a document, edit it by themselves, and then post the result for others to continue editing. Current implementations of simultaneous collaboration have largely used ad-hoc messaging protocols over Telepathy. Sequential collaboration has not yet been implemented, but many have viewed it from the perspective of Version Control Systems, with the accompanying branch and merge metaphors. We will have an open discussion of how to build a framework that will ease the creation of reliable collaborative activities. I will also outline a proposal for Collisionless, a particular message-based API that encompasses both real-time and offline collaboration. The key idea of Collisionless is to break down high-level tasks into a sequence of messages whose significance does not depend on the order in which they are received. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] [laptop.org #8321] Questions about XO mesh networking
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Bryan Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6. Are the specs here for the hardware of a server here still current : http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XSX_Server_Implementation I don't know about this. We are using different specs in Nepal 1.8 GHz Intel Core duo 1 GB of RAM 120 GB Hard drive We have a souped up XS because we intend to use Moodle and Mediawiki extensively. The CPU will be ok. And HD should be enough until the point where backups from the XOs start to work properly, there you might need more storage once kids get good with the camera ;-) RAM-wise 1GB is tight. I am surewe can get Apache/PHP/Postgres-mysql tuned to work well with 1GB but I haven't seen ejabberd+roster with lots of active users around. Wad, do you know what the mem footprint is? Squid is known to be a problem WRT memory usage - Currently the only hardware we have to run XS would be one of the XOs or an old IBM/Panasonic laptop (PIII800) I do hope to support an XO+harddrive for small groups (~30), but that's unrealistic at the moment... cheers, martin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
