Re: first play with new XO 1.5 machines
Hi Paul many keys only work intermittently on some of these XOs. particularly - frame key and the key next to it, search key, function key, hand keys, divide/multiply key. is this reproducible in the OFW diagnostics? (test /keyboard) we did diagnostics check, they intermittently don't work Thanks Tabitha ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Tabitha Roder tabi...@hrdnz.com wrote: OLPC release 11 Leonidas Sugar 0.84.2 Firmware Q3A11 Yeah, those OSs don't report themselves correctly. The XOs probably were sent with os29 or os30. The only way to make sure is to install it yourself :-/ (Unless cjb can clue us to a way to read the build number...) cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
/boot/olpc_version usually contains the right number. Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Tabitha Roder tabi...@hrdnz.com wrote: OLPC release 11 Leonidas Sugar 0.84.2 Firmware Q3A11 Yeah, those OSs don't report themselves correctly. The XOs probably were sent with os29 or os30. The only way to make sure is to install it yourself :-/ (Unless cjb can clue us to a way to read the build number...) cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
2009/10/21 Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org: /boot/olpc_version usually contains the right number. no such file or directory ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
2009/10/21 Tabitha Roder tabi...@hrdnz.com: 2009/10/21 Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org: /boot/olpc_version usually contains the right number. no such file or directory Maybe you don't have /boot mounted, or maybe there is a bug in the build system now that we moved to a separate boot partition. We should probably write the version on both partitions. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: Maybe you don't have /boot mounted, or maybe there is a bug in the build system now that we moved to a separate boot partition. We should probably write the version on both partitions. Yep - /etc/olpc_build is probably a good location for a 2nd copy. Makes sense that we've put it in /boot first -- it's important to also have it in /boot because then you can read it from OFW if the / partition is in a FS format that OFW doesn't know about. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
I don't like the idea of a second copy - A man with 2 watches never knows what time it is. Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: Maybe you don't have /boot mounted, or maybe there is a bug in the build system now that we moved to a separate boot partition. We should probably write the version on both partitions. Yep - /etc/olpc_build is probably a good location for a 2nd copy. Makes sense that we've put it in /boot first -- it's important to also have it in /boot because then you can read it from OFW if the / partition is in a FS format that OFW doesn't know about. cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: I don't like the idea of a second copy - A man with 2 watches never knows what time it is. If we can make sure /boot is mounted, a symlink -- will do :-) The convention is that the OS build is identified by someting in the form of /etc/foo-release (lsb-release). cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Oct 20 2009, at 19:04, Tabitha Roder was caught saying: no mesh network showing in neighbourhood My understanding is that mesh is not currently supported in the WLAN firmware for the new chips. I am not sure what the plan of action is in regards to mesh support for 1.5. the new record activity has no camera, only audio! camera issues... video for linux working but doesnt like what it finds, a driver issue? doesnt know about the camera? tried looking for it, lspci, lshal, lsmod, no luck The camera driver is still being worked on. question - why is there a /media/boot in the frame next to the battery indicator and volume indicator, The media is split into a /boot ext2 partition with the rest setup as ext4 so that OFW can read olpc.fth and do other operations without needing to have support for ext4. I noticed the inidicator too and find it very confusing from an end-user UI perspective. One should not be able to use the UI to unmount a device that one cannot get access to w/o taking the laptop apart. :) We probably want to either disable auto-mounting it or want to find someway to keep the sugar shell from displaying the icon. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
2009/10/21 Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: Maybe you don't have /boot mounted, or maybe there is a bug in the build system now that we moved to a separate boot partition. We should probably write the version on both partitions. Yep - /etc/olpc_build is probably a good location for a 2nd copy. Makes sense that we've put it in /boot first -- it's important to also have it in /boot because then you can read it from OFW if the / partition is in a FS format that OFW doesn't know about. The other reason for it to stay there is that sugar reads it from /boot (but Sugar could be modified) Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:18:54AM +0200, Martin Langhoff wrote: The convention is that the OS build is identified by someting in the form of /etc/foo-release (lsb-release). The SoaS plan is to create /etc/soas-release, FWIW. cheers, m Martin pgpKeeV0I5lGX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: 2009/10/21 Tabitha Roder tabi...@hrdnz.com: 2009/10/21 Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org: /boot/olpc_version usually contains the right number. no such file or directory Maybe you don't have /boot mounted, or maybe there is a bug in the build system now that we moved to a separate boot partition. We should probably write the version on both partitions. found this mounted: /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/Boot type ext2 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=devkit) and then this file /media/Boot/boot/olpc_version contents = 30 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
mitch wrote: I don't like the idea of a second copy - A man with 2 watches never knows what time it is. but in this case, both watches would be right, and that would be very interesting information indeed. :-) (i.e., they should never be out of sync, and if they are, then it's better to know that explicitly.) paul Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: Maybe you don't have /boot mounted, or maybe there is a bug in the build system now that we moved to a separate boot partition. We should probably write the version on both partitions. Yep - /etc/olpc_build is probably a good location for a 2nd copy. Makes sense that we've put it in /boot first -- it's important to also have it in /boot because then you can read it from OFW if the / partition is in a FS format that OFW doesn't know about. cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
Hi, The media is split into a /boot ext2 partition with the rest setup as ext4 so that OFW can read olpc.fth and do other operations without needing to have support for ext4. I noticed the inidicator too and find it very confusing from an end-user UI perspective. One should not be able to use the UI to unmount a device that one cannot get access to w/o taking the laptop apart. :) We probably want to either disable auto-mounting it or want to find someway to keep the sugar shell from displaying the icon. Already fixed in os32. - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Update version for F11-1.5
Hi, what is the version sequence in update_url that the Sugar activity updater tries on F11-1.5? http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update#Activity_groups - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO in 2 identical SSID scenario
Hello pals, some time ago I did some research on the behavior from the XO in places with more than one access point with the same SSID, and the results from this test weren't much god. As some of you may remember basically what my study said was that the connection jumps from one AP to another too frequent even if the difference in the quality (or level) of the signal is really big. In the same conditions, and even if both signals are strong a regular computers stays connected to the same AP. I even tried different SO on the XO and after thous test I'm confident that the problem is somewhere close to the net card driver or firmware. The first time I wrote to you about this someone else had said something on the opposite hand but then he never replayed about the topic again and most of the feedback I received were questions about distances versions and configuration (that's not bad, but eater is useful). I would like to know if someone else did some test on this field in order to share results and points of view. I also tried to contact people from Marvel but they never replayed, does anyone know a good way to get to them? Well thanks a lot in advance for any help you can provide. -- Andres Nacelle Montevideo - Uruguay. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Update version for F11-1.5
On 21.10.2009, at 18:02, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Hi, what is the version sequence in update_url that the Sugar activity updater tries on F11-1.5? http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update#Activity_groups Err, I meant this spec: == http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_file_format update_url = ... URL to retrieve update information; implemented in ticket #4951. The software update control panel will attempt to look for information about the latest version of the activity by fetching the given url with first the core OS build number, then the release number, then the release major version number appended, then finally as-is. (For example, if your update URL tag has the value 'http://host.net/ bundles/FooBar' and you are currently running release 8.2.1 (build 802), the following URLs will be tried, in this order: http://host.net/bundles/FooBar/802, http://host.net/bundles/FooBar/8.2.1, http://host.net/bundles/FooBar/8.2, http://host.net/bundles/FooBar ) The contents of the URLs should be in the activity microformat. == So what is the core OS build number and release number for F11-1.5? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Update version for F11-1.5
On 21.10.2009, at 18:31, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 21.10.2009, at 18:02, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Hi, what is the version sequence in update_url that the Sugar activity updater tries on F11-1.5? http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update#Activity_groups Err, I meant this spec: == http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_file_format update_url = ... URL to retrieve update information; implemented in ticket #4951. The software update control panel will attempt to look for information about the latest version of the activity by fetching the given url with first the core OS build number, then the release number, then the release major version number appended, then finally as-is. (For example, if your update URL tag has the value 'http://host.net/ bundles/FooBar' and you are currently running release 8.2.1 (build 802), the following URLs will be tried, in this order: http://host.net/bundles/FooBar/802, http://host.net/bundles/FooBar/8.2.1, http://host.net/bundles/FooBar/8.2, http://host.net/bundles/FooBar ) The contents of the URLs should be in the activity microformat. == So what is the core OS build number and release number for F11-1.5? - Bert - Seems like I'm talking to myself ;) so I dug into the updater code on my own (bitfrost/update/actinfo.py) OS build comes from /boot/olpc_build Release comes from /etc/olpc-release Both do not exist in os32. I filed this: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9533 Simplest solution is $ su -c 'echo 11.0.0 /etc/olpc-release' Fixes https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9459 anyway. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Alpha release - Deducto and Color Deducto activity
Tomeu, Thank you so much. We appreciate your wonderful support as always. We have been working on localizing Deducto and Color Deducto to Spanish, and will be sending the Spanish po file to olpc-sur for review within this week. We have made some revisions to Deducto and Color Deducto based on the feedback received from Dan and Walter. Thank you Sir. We appreciate your feedback and guidance. Regards, Manu On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 19:47, Manusheel Gupta m...@laptop.org wrote: Dear all, I am delighted to announce the alpha release of the Deducto and Color Deducto activities. Congratulations to all involved! Do they have localization setup? Seems like they have been downloaded hundreds of times already, and I bet most are from South America. We could ask teachers in olpc-sur to give feedback, or wait for versions in Spanish to appear. What do you think? Regards, Tomeu Please visit - 1. Deducto home page - http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/deducto.html 2. Color Deducto home page - http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/color-deducto.html 3. User guide for Deducto - http://seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=Deducto_User%E2%80%99s_Section 4. User guide for Color Deducto - http://seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=Color_Deducto_User%E2%80%99s_Section 5. Download pages - the alpha version of these activities along with their source code can be downloaded from http://seeta.in/j/downloads.html or from activities.sugarlabs.org (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4220 and http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4221). Many thanks to the developers Ashita Dadlani and Anisha Arora for their dedication and consistency during all the stages of the development; Satyajeet Singh, Assim Deodia, Swarandeep Singh and Vijit Singh for their support in training, development, localization and QA activities. Wish to express my gratitude to Walter Bender and Samuel J. Klein for their wonderful support and encouragement as always. We look forward to hearing your feedback and experience with Deducto and Color Deducto activities. If you would like to put in a feature request, please do so at http://testtrack.seeta.in. Hope you enjoy working with Deducto and Color Deducto activities. Wishing you a very Happy Diwali. Regards, Manu ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Alpha release - Deducto and Color Deducto activity
Dan, Appreciate your wonderful feedback. Thank you. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Dan Krejsa dan.kre...@gmail.com wrote: A few comments: - I found the help and instructions not terribly clear. I eventually figured out what to do, but I'm not sure many children would have the patience. Here's an initial attempt at an improved 'How to Play': Yes Dan. Thank you so much for taking out time and re-writing How to play section. We have added you as a contributor to Deducto and Color Deducto activities, and have removed the existing section with the one prepared by you. Appreciate your support. -- - Working in jhbuild on Fedora 11, the 'Resume' tab and 'Sample' tabs don't seem to really be tabs; they are menu items. 'Sample' occurs under the 'Help' menu. I would suggest instead of a separate sample tab, one added buttons for 'Give me a True sample' and 'Give me a False sample' to the main view. Sure, completely agree. We have received the same feedback on the positioning of Sample as a menu item. We have changed its placement to the main view in Deducto-2.xo and ColorDeducto-2.xo. On a separate note, spacing among Yes, No and Sample widgets needs some improvement at this juncture in the second versions too. - Moving the mouse over the array of squares, the white squares slightly dim and the black squares turn white. This is misleading since it makes the squares seem as if they would respond to the mouse, but they don't. Thank you very much for posting this issue. This has been fixed in the revised bundle uploaded on a.s.l.o ( http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4220 and http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4221) today. - It wasn't at all clear to me how the 'Make New Game' feature worked, although I didn't spend a long time on it. My apologies. Yes, we need to simplify this feature, and add a help guide for using it in the game. Ashita has been working on developing a user guide for creating your own game activity feature. Will share the guide with everyone on the mailing list soon. Thank you once again. Regards, Manu On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Manusheel Gupta m...@laptop.org wrote: Dear all, I am delighted to announce the alpha release of the Deducto and Color Deducto activities. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
[Server-devel] Question from University of Delaware XO Class
Is it possible to save and retrieve files from an XO to an XS server. I guess it would be similar to a network folder in windows that can be accessed by any XO. Josh Totoro Charter School Management Inc. 302 E 5th St. Chester, PA 19013 (610) 447-0400 x329 jtot...@chartersmi.com www.chartersmi.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information of Chester Community Charter School (CCCS). If you have received this message in error, please e-mail administrator at postmas...@chestercommunitycharter.org, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. CCCS reserves the right to retain, archive, use and disclose any emails that are sent from or to this email address. Thank you. ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Bug specific to Fedora 11 on both XO-1 and XO-1.5
Tomeu, Mikus reported an interesting bug on both the XO-1 and XO-1.5 running F11 - Color Deducto activity comes up without color. Please find the logs attached - http://pastebin.com/m7fb5ca12 . Wish if you could suggest pointers to debug this issue. Thank you. Regards, Manu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Bug specific to Fedora 11 on both XO-1 and XO-1.5
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:28, Manusheel Gupta m...@laptop.org wrote: Tomeu, Mikus reported an interesting bug on both the XO-1 and XO-1.5 running F11 - Color Deducto activity comes up without color. Please find the logs attached - http://pastebin.com/m7fb5ca12 . Wish if you could suggest pointers to debug this issue. I see the following pointers to problems in the logs: 1255861056.350624 ERROR root: Invalid SUGAR_SCALING. ... /home/olpc/Activities/ColorDeducto.activity/ColorDeducto.py:306: GtkWarning: Can't set a parent on widget which has a parent self.makenewlevel_menu.append(self.openyourlevel_item) /home/olpc/Activities/ColorDeducto.activity/ColorDeducto.py:608: DeprecationWarning: use GdkColormap.alloc_color style.bg[gtk.STATE_NORMAL]=self.c.get_colormap().alloc(s) /home/olpc/Activities/ColorDeducto.activity/ColorDeducto.py:661: DeprecationWarning: use GdkColormap.alloc_color style.bg[gtk.STATE_NORMAL]=self.c.get_colormap().alloc(s) /home/olpc/Activities/ColorDeducto.activity/ColorDeducto.py:674: GtkWarning: gtk_box_pack: assertion `child-parent == NULL' failed self.vbox.pack_start(self.hbox_list[2*i], False, False, 6) # adding H-Separator in V-Box /home/olpc/Activities/ColorDeducto.activity/ColorDeducto.py:770: GtkWarning: gtk_box_pack: assertion `child-parent == NULL' failed self.Vcontainer.pack_start(Hcontainer4,False, False,0) It's possible that some of those point to the root causes. If it doesn't, please post a screenshot. Regards, Tomeu Thank you. Regards, Manu -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Oct 20 2009, at 19:04, Tabitha Roder was caught saying: no mesh network showing in neighbourhood My understanding is that mesh is not currently supported in the WLAN firmware for the new chips. I am not sure what the plan of action is in regards to mesh support for 1.5. For laptops to communicate when they're nearby, no mesh is needed. The usable range will be shorter than with a mesh, but on the positive side, XO's should be able to communicate with every kind of device, not just themselves. But I don't know if NetworkManager and Sugar are fully organized to do Ad Hoc networking, presence, messaging, file sharing, etc in the absence of an access point. The mesh channels in the GUI could be converted to ad hoc channels, unless ad-hoc WiFi networking has a protocol for searching all the channels for nearby machines. (Channel-less operation would be simpler for users -- one less setting.) John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
Hi, But I don't know if NetworkManager and Sugar are fully organized to do Ad Hoc networking, presence, messaging, file sharing, etc in the absence of an access point. They are; the final piece was work by Tomeu Vizoso to add a UI for creating/joining ad-hoc networks in Sugar, which is in our 1.5 builds now. I think we could still make this more automatic than it is at the moment, though. - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] XO in 2 identical SSID scenario
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 02:26:28PM -0200, Andr?s Nacelle wrote: Hello pals, some time ago I did some research on the behavior from the XO in places with more than one access point with the same SSID, and the results from this test weren't much god. As some of you may remember basically what my study said was that the connection jumps from one AP to another too frequent even if the difference in the quality (or level) of the signal is really big. I recall some of the discussion. I haven't looked back through your mail. Was the problem ever formalised in the bug tracking system? I haven't looked there yet for this problem. Remind me; what operating system builds are you experiencing this with? Remind me; was the jumping from one to the other synchronised to the scans initiated by Network Manager? The reason I ask is that I've seen inconsistent signal strength measurements around these scans, so I turn off Network Manager sometimes when testing. I even tried different SO on the XO and after thous test I'm confident that the problem is somewhere close to the net card driver or firmware. Did you mean different operating system (OS)? If so, which ones? I'm especially interested to know if the newer version of Network Manager and the kernel on the F11 for XO1 builds reproduce the same symptom ... because if they don't then we can look at what changed. The first time I wrote to you about this someone else had said something on the opposite hand but then he never replayed about the topic again and most of the feedback I received were questions about distances versions and configuration (that's not bad, but eater is useful). See above for more. ;-) Regarding many questions ... you might not think it has progressed your problem, but from the point of view of people trying to help it certainly does. Losing this knowledge of the problem will hinder you. I would like to know if someone else did some test on this field in order to share results and points of view. No, I have not done such a test. It is a good idea, but I lack sufficient knowledge of your configuration in order to verify that the test would be true. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Oct 21, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Tiago Marques wrote: Hasn't mesh proved useful in deployments? No, it hasn't. We actively discourage anyone from using it, and I'm not aware of any successful applications of it except in test and demonstration situations. I suspect you are, like many, many people, confusing mesh with ad-hoc networking and collaboration, as was mentioned earlier. Mesh refers specifically to 802.11s networking, allowing XOs to act as relays forwarding packets from point A to point B where point A and point B are out of range of one another but can communication with other nodes in between. There are serious algorithmic problems with using this technology in XO situations. If you have 20 XOs in a classroom operating in mesh mode, they can collectively saturate the radio spectrum by all trying to help forward packets for each other. It's been hard to design a model that allows nodes in a mesh to know when to STOP serving as mesh nodes; and if we were able to do that, it would be again difficult to figure out when they should turn themselves back on. As far as I am aware, all XO networking scenarios currently in use in the field with the XO-1.0 can be replicated with XO-1.5. We sacrificed the non-working mesh capability in favor of a different wireless radio from Marvell that saves us about 150 mW, and that kind of power saving is much more valuable to our users. I also want to point out that in cases where 802.11s mesh operation is desirable, the Open802.11s stack (http://www.open80211s.org/) should be investigated. There's no reason Open802.11s software can't be used to make an XO a Mesh Portal Point (MPP). The only thing we're really losing in XO-1.5 is the ability of an XO to serve as a MPP in low- power mode, when the laptop is otherwise asleep. It would be great to get that working someday, but not today. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Test firmware
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~wmb/q3a13c.rom This is a brown bag release whose main purpose is to test the effectiveness of Richard's EC fixes for the keyboard stops working problem. Did 4 reboot cycles with q3a13c and haven't seen again the keyboard problem, It also has a fun feature for your amusement: ok screen-ih iselect ok 40 30 set-scaled-resolution (It also works with more conventional resolutions like d# 1024 d# 768 set-scaled-resolution, but not with resolutions larger than the screen's native size of 1200 x 900.) Nice. cheers! ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
2009/10/22 Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com: They are -- but it's pretty awkward to activate. I am arguing that ad-hoc networking with a preset ESSID, and Salut should be the transparent fallback. Just like the mesh was on earlier releases. We already discussed this a lot in another thread. It should not be automatic. The thread is titled [Sugar-devel] [Design] Ad-hoc networks - New Icons The biggest headache about mesh is the cases where it sort-of-works, but not quite. Ad-hoc networking will be considerably less reliable than mesh was, for a few reasons: 1. In the mesh, everyone does their own beaconing. Sounds horrible but it actually works. In ad-hoc, there is just one beacon master. Due to cheap radios and interference etc, the beacon master will switch around frequently causing frequent network splits and communication failures. 2. This kind of situation will happen frequently: A - B - C B can see both users A and C on his network view. A can only see B, and C can only see B. B shares an activity. Both A and C join. However, anything done by A cannot be seen by C and vice-versa, because they are too far apart. 3. Another nasty situation A -- B A and B are outside of radio range, but are both setup to start an automatic network named olpc So they both setup their own ad-hoc networks, both becoming beacon masters. Another laptop C comes along A C -- B This laptop can see both of these independent laptops (each having its independent network). It can join one or the other. It cannot join both. Hence this XO can only communicate with A or B, but not both (even though the range is OK), and presenting this choice in the UI would be nasty. Ad-hoc will work well for the cases where the children get together in a small space and explicitly create a throwaway network. If it is created automatically, I predict we will just get an unreliable mess. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 07:48:06AM +0545, Daniel Drake wrote: Ad-hoc will work well for the cases where the children get together in a small space and explicitly create a throwaway network. If it is created automatically, I predict we will just get an unreliable mess. And we won't really be able to tell because all we'll get back from the users or deployments is doesn't work. We haven't got data logging of wireless conditions experienced by every radio ... and we probably can't afford to go to that level of detail ... but that is what it would take to make this work, if there was a real need for it that would cover the huge cost. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
No mesh: Just checking this scenario I am a teacher and have just been handed 5 XOs for my students. I am told you can have a child start writing a story and then have the other children join in to write together. How does the teacher do this - in less than 100 words and not one word technical Will the new solution with 0.842 or 0.846 make this possible without any requirement for server or some external network or some special setup that the teacher cant do themselves with no effort and technical help? Some deployments in pacific are very small and dont have help available. I was shocked to find that I could not do this as this is what I considered central to Sugar - creating together, learning together. I really hope that we see this getting easier for teachers. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines [#9343]
G'day Tabitha, I think I can relax you a bit ... there seems to have been a minor misunderstanding caused by ambiguous terms. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 04:06:15PM +1300, Tabitha Roder wrote: No mesh: Just checking this scenario I am a teacher and have just been handed 5 XOs for my students. I am told you can have a child start writing a story and then have the other children join in to write together. How does the teacher do this - in less than 100 words and not one word technical Click on the icons, probably in a similar fashion as to how XO-1 build 802 does it. Will the new solution with 0.842 or 0.846 make this possible without any requirement for server or some external network or some special setup that the teacher cant do themselves with no effort and technical help? Yes, I expect so. I was shocked to find that I could not do this as this is what I considered central to Sugar - creating together, learning together. I don't think you should be shocked ... this is development, and it is not yet ready for children with such limited technical help. I really hope that we see this getting easier for teachers. I don't see why it won't. See http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9343 and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Network_manager_0.7 and http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090716/olpcmesh.patch The patch adds Ad-Hoc support back into Sugar 0.84 ... which would give you want you want. I think we have a terminology issue ... mesh can mean 802.11s, which as Ed said we aren't going to use ... you weren't using it on XO-1. In your case, mesh means Ad-Hoc networking between several XOs. You can manually establish an Ad-Hoc network between several XO-1.5's in build os32 using the following temporary procedure: 1. start Terminal and become root, 2. stop Network Manager, /etc/init.d/NetworkManager stop 3. configure the wireless device for Ad-Hoc, iwconfig eth0 mode ad-hoc essid xo 4. manually configure an IP address for each XO, ifconfig eth0 10.0.0.15 netmask 255.255.255.0 (change 15 to 16 for the second XO, and so on), 5. switch to the Neighbourhood view and the other XOs will be displayed in the usual fashion, 6. reboot to restore to normal operation. This procedure is not given here as a final solution to your problem, but only as a workaround so that you can test collaboration further. I've tested the procedure with two XO-1.5's. I didn't have any more than two to test with. ;-) -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
2009/10/22 Tabitha Roder tabi...@hrdnz.com: No mesh: Just checking this scenario I am a teacher and have just been handed 5 XOs for my students. I am told you can have a child start writing a story and then have the other children join in to write together. How does the teacher do this - in less than 100 words and not one word technical There are many answers to that. What's the network setup? Assuming you mean there is no infrastructure at all: The teacher will have to create an ad-hoc network (click wifi device in frame, click Create network) and the children will then have to go to the neighborhood view and click on that new network to connect to it. Then sharing works as usual, provided that all the laptops are close to each other. Yes, it's difficult in a classroom setting with young children. All of our current networking solutions are this way :( Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines [#9343]
2009/10/22 James Cameron qu...@laptop.org: You can manually establish an Ad-Hoc network between several XO-1.5's in build os32 using the following temporary procedure: 1. start Terminal and become root, eek! no need to get dirty; you can create an ad-hoc network from a single click in the frame, and then the others can join it from the neighborhood view. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines
On Wednesday 21 October 2009 06:41:54 pm Ed McNierney wrote: I also want to point out that in cases where 802.11s mesh operation is desirable, the Open802.11s stack (http://www.open80211s.org/) should be investigated. There's no reason Open802.11s software can't be used to make an XO a Mesh Portal Point (MPP). The only thing we're really losing in XO-1.5 is the ability of an XO to serve as a MPP in low- power mode, when the laptop is otherwise asleep. It would be great to get that working someday, but not today. Huge +1 on not reinventing the wheel and using upstream's capabilities for meshing*. AFAIK the only way to use the open11s support in the mac80211 stack on the XO-1 is with a thin firmware and the libertas_tf driver, is this option available for the new chip in the XO-1.5? I'm guessing this device also uses a fullmac driver. *: I am aware that OLPC's efforts in 11s predate proper support in mac80211 and thus were the only option. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- -Andrés ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines [#9343]
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 09:24:08AM +0545, Daniel Drake wrote: eek! no need to get dirty; you can create an ad-hoc network from a single click in the frame, and then the others can join it from the neighborhood view. Sounds neat. Doesn't work. #9540 raised. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Testing] first play with new XO 1.5 machines [#9343]
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 02:31:28PM +1100, James Cameron wrote: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 04:06:15PM +1300, Tabitha Roder wrote: Just checking this scenario I am a teacher and have just been handed 5 XOs for my students. I am told you can have a child start writing a story and then have the other children join in to write together. How does the teacher do this - in less than 100 words and not one word technical Click on the icons, probably in a similar fashion as to how XO-1 build 802 does it. Not quite as similar as I had suspected. One XO has to create a network first, as Daniel described. Then the network will be selectable on the other XOs. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Question from University of Delaware XO Class
Not by default. The only way this can be achieved now is by backing up the XO to the XS and then retrieving the backup from the XS to the XO. On Oct 21, 2009, at 3:06 PM, Josh Totoro wrote: Is it possible to save and retrieve files from an XO to an XS server. I guess it would be similar to a network folder in windows that can be accessed by any XO. Josh Totoro Charter School Management Inc. 302 E 5th St. Chester, PA 19013 (610) 447-0400 x329 jtot...@chartersmi.com www.chartersmi.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information of Chester Community Charter School (CCCS). If you have received this message in error, please e-mail administrator at postmas...@chestercommunitycharter.org , then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. CCCS reserves the right to retain, archive, use and disclose any emails that are sent from or to this email address. Thank you. ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Question from University of Delaware XO Class
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Josh Totoro jtot...@chartersmi.com wrote: Can you back up specific files, or does it back up the whole XO? It will back up the whole Journal, but not the whole XO. But if you are trying to publish specific files, you have Moodle installed, and doing automagic authentication. Setup a course in moodle, publish content there. Or yoy can publish it in the 'sitecourse' which is what controls Moodle's homepage. Definitely in my plan to make moodle usage (for this and more) even easier :-) cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
