Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
H, > >Thanks Casper. You didn't mention examples, but the wiki says they go to >the examples directory. > I explicitly left out mentioning examples, because they are a mess. Most of the current examples/example documentation need to be re-written, since they all link to widgets, or their documentation depends on documentation content from other modules. An easy fix for that would be to put all examples in qtdoc or create an examples repository (if we are not rewriting them). Casper ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi all, Laszlo wrote: > >> I am missing the recommendation for certain folders in there, like >> 1) doc: probably most important since modules should be documented. >> 2) examples: this is probably also important because examples would be >> nice to have for the add-on modules as well. Casper wrote: > >I edited the location for doc to be src/[modulename]/doc, since that is >the place where we want to documentation to be after we modularize the >documentation (see the thread on this list with title: "Towards a Qt 5 >beta: Documentation") Thanks Casper. You didn't mention examples, but the wiki says they go to the examples directory. Cheers, Henry ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi, > I am missing the recommendation for certain folders in there, like > 1) doc: probably most important since modules should be documented. > 2) examples: this is probably also important because examples would be > nice to have for the add-on modules as well. I edited the location for doc to be src/[modulename]/doc, since that is the place where we want to documentation to be after we modularize the documentation (see the thread on this list with title: "Towards a Qt 5 beta: Documentation") Casper ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On sexta-feira, 20 de abril de 2012 18.40.15, Laszlo Papp wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry for bringing this thread up again, and my sincere apologize, if > this is not the best way to come up with a new realization. > > [...] > > > https://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt > > http://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt#The_structur > e_of_a_new_module_repository > > I am missing the recommendation for certain folders in there, like > 1) doc: probably most important since modules should be documented. > 2) examples: this is probably also important because examples would be > nice to have for the add-on modules as well. > > -- Optional -- > 3) demos > 4) tools > > Perhaps the last two are not so common, but the former two could be > added to the wikipage, if there are no objections to that. Go ahead. The demos aren't in the projects anymore because demos usually require more than one module to demonstrate functionality. As for tools, it's really an exception. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center Intel Sweden AB - Registration Number: 556189-6027 Knarrarnäsgatan 15, 164 40 Kista, Stockholm, Sweden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi, Sorry for bringing this thread up again, and my sincere apologize, if this is not the best way to come up with a new realization. [...] > https://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt http://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt#The_structure_of_a_new_module_repository I am missing the recommendation for certain folders in there, like 1) doc: probably most important since modules should be documented. 2) examples: this is probably also important because examples would be nice to have for the add-on modules as well. -- Optional -- 3) demos 4) tools Perhaps the last two are not so common, but the former two could be added to the wikipage, if there are no objections to that. Best Regards, Laszlo Papp ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools (Laszlo Papp)
-邮件原件- 发件人: development-bounces+chenyw3892=hotmail@qt-project.org [mailto:development-bounces+chenyw3892=hotmail@qt-project.org] 代表 development-requ...@qt-project.org 发送时间: 2011年12月14日 9:48 收件人: development@qt-project.org 主题: Development Digest, Vol 3, Issue 38 Send Development mailing list submissions to development@qt-project.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to development-requ...@qt-project.org You can reach the person managing the list at development-ow...@qt-project.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Development digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to create new Qt modules or tools (Laszlo Papp) 2. Re: How to create new Qt modules or tools (Thiago Macieira) 3. Source incompatible proposal: removing Qt::WA_ values for widget orientation (Robin Burchell) 4. Re: Jira Expert Group (Quim Gil) 5. Feature freeze date? (Thiago Macieira) 6. Re: Feature freeze date? (simon.hausm...@nokia.com) 7. Re: Feature freeze date? (Thiago Macieira) 8. Qt Playground - 3D Audio module (Laszlo Papp) 9. Proposing Alex Wilson for Approver Status (alex.blas...@nokia.com) 10. Re: Proposing Alex Wilson for Approver Status (David Laing) 11. Re: Proposing Alex Wilson for Approver Status (David Laing) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:54:01 +0200 From: Laszlo Papp Subject: Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools To: Rohan McGovern Cc: development Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Rohan, > Security is a potential issue for providing the same test resources > used for the main Qt modules to be also used against playground > modules. ?These test machines are Internet-connected[1], and arbitrary code > can be set up to run on them; lowering the barrier for getting this > arbitrary code onto the machines of course increases the security risk. Thank you for your swift reply. Is it possible to get a cmake based buildsystem integrated with CI and those quality services, if that is the "final" build system for an essential or add-on module ? Best Regards, Laszlo Papp -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:57:36 +0100 From: Thiago Macieira Subject: Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools To: development@qt-project.org Message-ID: <1679077.7BQQlf7JuQ@tjmaciei-mobl2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Tuesday, 13 de December de 2011 17.54.01, Laszlo Papp wrote: > Hi Rohan, > > > Security is a potential issue for providing the same test resources > > used for the main Qt modules to be also used against playground > > modules. These test machines are Internet-connected[1], and arbitrary > > code > > can be set up to run on them; lowering the barrier for getting this > > arbitrary code onto the machines of course increases the security risk. > > Thank you for your swift reply. Is it possible to get a cmake based > buildsystem integrated with CI and those quality services, if that is > the "final" build system for an essential or add-on module ? You're going to have to volunteer to do the CI integration too. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center Intel Sweden AB - Registration Number: 556189-6027 Knarrarn?sgatan 15, 164 40 Kista, Stockholm, Sweden -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/attachments/20111213/5aabe d24/attachment-0001.bin -- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:04:18 +0100 From: Robin Burchell Subject: [Development] Source incompatible proposal: removing Qt::WA_ values for widget orientation To: development@qt-project.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, I'd like to propose a source-incompatible change for Qt 5: the removal of Qt::WA_*Orientation. The justification for this source-incompatible change is that (as far as I'm aware) the API has never really worked anywhere except Symbian (indeed, I only see code for S60 in the brief look I took now), even Maemo5 took a slightly different route with QWidget orientation (http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo/maemo5-rotation.html) - and my understanding is that QWidget is not the platform of choice for mobile platforms now, so I don't expect this to work in the future eit
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On Tuesday, 13 de December de 2011 17.54.01, Laszlo Papp wrote: > Hi Rohan, > > > Security is a potential issue for providing the same test resources > > used for the main Qt modules to be also used against playground > > modules. These test machines are Internet-connected[1], and arbitrary > > code > > can be set up to run on them; lowering the barrier for getting this > > arbitrary code onto the machines of course increases the security risk. > > Thank you for your swift reply. Is it possible to get a cmake based > buildsystem integrated with CI and those quality services, if that is > the "final" build system for an essential or add-on module ? You're going to have to volunteer to do the CI integration too. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center Intel Sweden AB - Registration Number: 556189-6027 Knarrarnäsgatan 15, 164 40 Kista, Stockholm, Sweden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi Rohan, > Security is a potential issue for providing the same test resources > used for the main Qt modules to be also used against playground > modules. These test machines are Internet-connected[1], and arbitrary code > can be set up to run on them; lowering the barrier for getting this > arbitrary code onto the machines of course increases the security risk. Thank you for your swift reply. Is it possible to get a cmake based buildsystem integrated with CI and those quality services, if that is the "final" build system for an essential or add-on module ? Best Regards, Laszlo Papp ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
hi, On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 3:41 PM, wrote: > It makes sense to have the discussion on the development mailing list, and > then create a JIRA task for the new Gerrit project. This makes the process > independent from anybody's email addresses or new mailing lists. Do you think > this would work? Sounds perfect to me. ML for initial discussion, JIRA for action items + followup :) Thanks! Robin ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On 13/12/2011, at 12:09 AM, wrote: > What is it that you require to upload the results to a cdash, and why > wouldn't qmake be able to do so? > I thought cmake simply ran cdash to upload the results, and certainly qmake > can easily add the rules for doing the same? I guess it would be possible to extend qmake to produce the required XML files for upload, but it's more than that. You would have to write the code to drive the repository update, build and test phases too. That's a non-trivial amount of work which I don't think is actually necessary. The whole process can be driven by ctest. I think it would be possible to have ctest invoke qmake to do the build part, although I'm not sure how well it would work. I think if you went down this path though, you would almost immediately re-open the qmake vs cmake build system debate again (if you feel the need to comment on this here, please use a different discussion thread). > > What's the command line you need to run after a 'make check', and which > variables do you need to control that process? (Server name, user name, > password etc) The ctest application relies on a small file at the top of your source tree. That file specifies things like the CDash server name, the project name to submit results for and maybe a few other config-related things. Rather than the build tool (eg make) driving the process, the cmake/ctest model works the other way around. If you do a "make test", cmake has set up the Makefile's to essentially just forward this to running ctest. Laszlo has sent a link in his reply to this thread which you may find useful if you want more info on how to use ctest without cmake, but it is more complicated doing it that way (because you have to do all the steps that cmake would otherwise be doing for you). > > -- > .marius > > >> -Original Message- >> From: development-bounces+marius.storm-olsen=nokia.com@qt- >> project.org [mailto:development-bounces+marius.storm- >> olsen=nokia@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of ext Laszlo Papp >> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:08 AM >> To: craig.sc...@csiro.au >> Cc: development@qt-project.org >> Subject: Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools >> >>> I really like the model of enabling the community to submit build results to >> a central dashboard. It allows those with an interest in a particular >> platform/compiler combination to put in the initial setup work and have their >> combination included in the automated build/test infrastructure. The Kitware >> guys make it easy with simple instructions to get a build submission up and >> running this was a key factor for me to add builds for the platforms/compiler >> that matter to our group. Heck, it even motivated me to set up similar things >> for the rest of our code base, so I guess we're proof that such a system can >> encourage better habits. I've missed not having a similar thing for Qt. >> >> I agree with this. It brings my next question: Could "cmake" also be >> an option in Qt Playground until there is no such a service ? I would >> personally miss this opportunity as it makes the project quality >> better. I do not currently have the manpower for maintaining two build >> services simultaneously, and the qmake part would still remain >> untested. That is also fine if the publishing of the build results is >> sorted out somehow with qmake inside the qt community. I could use my >> own servers for building as I do with the current way by using cdash. >> >> Best Regards, >> Laszlo Papp >> >> PS.: My other questions are hopefully not forgotten either in the flow. :) >> ___ >> Development mailing list >> Development@qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -- Dr Craig Scott Computational Software Engineering Team Leader, CSIRO (CMIS) Melbourne, Australia ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On Monday, 12 de December de 2011 16.27.40, Laszlo Papp wrote: > This topic brings my next question: what about projects migrating to > Qt Playground, but had been using doxygen rather than qdoc? qdoc is recommended, of course. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center Intel Sweden AB - Registration Number: 556189-6027 Knarrarnäsgatan 15, 164 40 Kista, Stockholm, Sweden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 3:09 PM, wrote: > What is it that you require to upload the results to a cdash, and why > wouldn't qmake be able to do so? > I thought cmake simply ran cdash to upload the results, and certainly qmake > can easily add the rules for doing the same? > > What's the command line you need to run after a 'make check', and which > variables do you need to control that process? (Server name, user name, > password etc) It is probably a lot less simple without using ctest. I am unsure how many of them are relevant, but ctest has 46 C++ files and some scripts. Here is a bit simpler way of doing it: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/CTest:Using_CTEST_and_CDASH_without_CMAKE On the other hand: it seems to be an acceptable way to use other buildsystems, like cmake: http://www.mail-archive.com/development@qt-project.org/msg00162.html This topic brings my next question: what about projects migrating to Qt Playground, but had been using doxygen rather than qdoc? Best Regards, Laszlo Papp ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
What is it that you require to upload the results to a cdash, and why wouldn't qmake be able to do so? I thought cmake simply ran cdash to upload the results, and certainly qmake can easily add the rules for doing the same? What's the command line you need to run after a 'make check', and which variables do you need to control that process? (Server name, user name, password etc) -- .marius > -Original Message- > From: development-bounces+marius.storm-olsen=nokia.com@qt- > project.org [mailto:development-bounces+marius.storm- > olsen=nokia@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of ext Laszlo Papp > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:08 AM > To: craig.sc...@csiro.au > Cc: development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools > > > I really like the model of enabling the community to submit build results to > a central dashboard. It allows those with an interest in a particular > platform/compiler combination to put in the initial setup work and have their > combination included in the automated build/test infrastructure. The Kitware > guys make it easy with simple instructions to get a build submission up and > running this was a key factor for me to add builds for the platforms/compiler > that matter to our group. Heck, it even motivated me to set up similar things > for the rest of our code base, so I guess we're proof that such a system can > encourage better habits. I've missed not having a similar thing for Qt. > > I agree with this. It brings my next question: Could "cmake" also be > an option in Qt Playground until there is no such a service ? I would > personally miss this opportunity as it makes the project quality > better. I do not currently have the manpower for maintaining two build > services simultaneously, and the qmake part would still remain > untested. That is also fine if the publishing of the build results is > sorted out somehow with qmake inside the qt community. I could use my > own servers for building as I do with the current way by using cdash. > > Best Regards, > Laszlo Papp > > PS.: My other questions are hopefully not forgotten either in the flow. :) > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
> I really like the model of enabling the community to submit build results to > a central dashboard. It allows those with an interest in a particular > platform/compiler combination to put in the initial setup work and have their > combination included in the automated build/test infrastructure. The Kitware > guys make it easy with simple instructions to get a build submission up and > running this was a key factor for me to add builds for the platforms/compiler > that matter to our group. Heck, it even motivated me to set up similar things > for the rest of our code base, so I guess we're proof that such a system can > encourage better habits. I've missed not having a similar thing for Qt. I agree with this. It brings my next question: Could "cmake" also be an option in Qt Playground until there is no such a service ? I would personally miss this opportunity as it makes the project quality better. I do not currently have the manpower for maintaining two build services simultaneously, and the qmake part would still remain untested. That is also fine if the publishing of the build results is sorted out somehow with qmake inside the qt community. I could use my own servers for building as I do with the current way by using cdash. Best Regards, Laszlo Papp PS.: My other questions are hopefully not forgotten either in the flow. :) ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On 12/12/2011, at 4:59 PM, Rohan McGovern wrote: > Laszlo Papp said: >> >> 1) Build and software testing service >> Is there a build and software testing service provided for projects in >> the Qt Playground repositories ? I have not seen any mentionings about >> that so far. and it is an important question in my case, for instance. >> I have been using CDash [1] for projects under the KDE umbrella. It is >> possible as long as I use cmake as a build system in my project. I >> think such a build and software testing service along with the >> publishing of the build results would increase the QA of those >> playground projects. I know there are such QA services for "final" >> modules. I was just curious if those tools, providing the relevant >> services, are available to Qt Playground projects or not. If not, are >> there some other options ? It would be really nice if playground >> projects could get such an attention. I am not willing to propose it >> for all the projects there because I do not know the capacity, but at >> least for projects and maintainers there who are interested in this >> matter. >> > > Security is a potential issue for providing the same test resources > used for the main Qt modules to be also used against playground > modules. These test machines are Internet-connected[1], and arbitrary code > can be set up to run on them; lowering the barrier for getting this > arbitrary code onto the machines of course increases the security risk. > >> http://my.cdash.org/ > > It would be interesting to know for example how Kitware handled this > issue for the above, or if it was explicitly decided to accept the risk > (which may well be a valid approach, given that the process includes a > trusted maintainer signing off on the new playground project). > As someone who maintains a couple of platforms for the CMake dashboard (ie LSB linux builds), I'll throw in my $0.02. The CDash model works in reverse to what I suspect you might be thinking. The server that hosts the dashboard merely accepts an XML summary of the results of a build. The build itself could be done on any machine that can connect to the dashboard server, including sitting behind a private company firewall, etc. In our case, we have a virtual machine start up, run the build and then shut down again. For nightlies, you can even have the VM wipe all changes made and start up with an identical clean system every time (we do this), but for CI you can just have the virtual disk holding the build tree preserved and let the virtual system disk start up clean each time, etc. But I digress.. My main point is that the maintainer of the machine carrying out the build is the one taking the risk, not the machine hosting the CDash site. No arbitrary code is executed on the CDash server, only the build machine. In the case of the Qt playground, such a model would allow maintainers of a playground component to host their own builds and submit results to a central dashboard (I mean that term generically, I'm not implying that I think this should necessarily be CDash). If a playground project moves to an accepted add-on, then perhaps the builds could be taken over by some central pool of build servers since at that point, the source code has essentially been accepted as trustworthy. If there's a desire to have Qt's pool of servers also support builds for playground projects, then one option would be to use the approach of virtual machines which reset their disks back to a known state before each build. I really like the model of enabling the community to submit build results to a central dashboard. It allows those with an interest in a particular platform/compiler combination to put in the initial setup work and have their combination included in the automated build/test infrastructure. The Kitware guys make it easy with simple instructions to get a build submission up and running this was a key factor for me to add builds for the platforms/compiler that matter to our group. Heck, it even motivated me to set up similar things for the rest of our code base, so I guess we're proof that such a system can encourage better habits. I've missed not having a similar thing for Qt. -- Dr Craig Scott Computational Software Engineering Team Leader, CSIRO (CMIS) Melbourne, Australia ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Laszlo Papp said: > > 1) Build and software testing service > Is there a build and software testing service provided for projects in > the Qt Playground repositories ? I have not seen any mentionings about > that so far. and it is an important question in my case, for instance. > I have been using CDash [1] for projects under the KDE umbrella. It is > possible as long as I use cmake as a build system in my project. I > think such a build and software testing service along with the > publishing of the build results would increase the QA of those > playground projects. I know there are such QA services for "final" > modules. I was just curious if those tools, providing the relevant > services, are available to Qt Playground projects or not. If not, are > there some other options ? It would be really nice if playground > projects could get such an attention. I am not willing to propose it > for all the projects there because I do not know the capacity, but at > least for projects and maintainers there who are interested in this > matter. > Security is a potential issue for providing the same test resources used for the main Qt modules to be also used against playground modules. These test machines are Internet-connected[1], and arbitrary code can be set up to run on them; lowering the barrier for getting this arbitrary code onto the machines of course increases the security risk. > http://my.cdash.org/ It would be interesting to know for example how Kitware handled this issue for the above, or if it was explicitly decided to accept the risk (which may well be a valid approach, given that the process includes a trusted maintainer signing off on the new playground project). [1] perhaps not forever - I'm describing the way things are and not necessarily the way they should be :) ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi Henry, Thank you for your quick reply. > The instructions were written with brand new projects in mind, but I agree we > need to consider existing projects that move to Qt Project. The contribution > agreement needs some special consideration here, so I'll work with Cristy on > making that addition. > For a new project, you could pick a name like 3D Audio, and then if it is > moved into an actual module it could be called Qt 3D Audio. > OpenAL is a special case because it is a 3rd party technology name. Whether > using it in the module name falls under "fair use" would have to be checked > with Qt Project Legal. I was having the term idea according to the previous QtOpenGL. I have just tried to go to their mailing lists, but they do not seem to load here at the momment: http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html#about Renaming to Qt3DAudio or something similar would not be a problem either. I have been so far the only one contributing to the codebase. I will patiently wait for Cristy's answer about it. :) > In some cases we expect there to be several related playground projects, so > it would not necessarily be fair to allocate a good name like "Qt Physics > Engine" (just an example) for the first physics engine related playground > activity. It needs to be given to the project that actually graduates into a > real Qt module. > Another reason for not using the Qt prefix is that we'd like to make sure the > playground projects are not mistaken as actual Qt modules, because they don't > have that status yet. Could you please document it on the relevant wikipage ? > The idea in this section of the wiki was to discuss the general spirit fit > and technical fit of the project as a new Qt module on the mailing list, > before including the module in Qt releases. I don't know how detailed > technical review and API review would be done for a module that has a long > history (or might lack a part of the history in the repository). > Lars and others, do you have comments on this? I will wait for Lars and others, then. :) I have further questions about the process in general: 1) Build and software testing service Is there a build and software testing service provided for projects in the Qt Playground repositories ? I have not seen any mentionings about that so far. and it is an important question in my case, for instance. I have been using CDash [1] for projects under the KDE umbrella. It is possible as long as I use cmake as a build system in my project. I think such a build and software testing service along with the publishing of the build results would increase the QA of those playground projects. I know there are such QA services for "final" modules. I was just curious if those tools, providing the relevant services, are available to Qt Playground projects or not. If not, are there some other options ? It would be really nice if playground projects could get such an attention. I am not willing to propose it for all the projects there because I do not know the capacity, but at least for projects and maintainers there who are interested in this matter. 2) Requirement about third-party dependencies In general, what is the requirement for third-party dependencies regarding the new modules and tools ? Let me give a practical example. QtOpenAL has been using a QALAbstractAudioDecoder interface at the momment and there are various implementations of that interface (e.g. "backends" like sndfile, libvorbisfile, flac, fluidsynth. Plans in the future, like modplug, dumb, ffmpeg and so forth). Could you please write something about third-party dependencies a bit more ? Are there limitations for those or just a sane consensus ? It might be that new modules or tools might try to bring new third-party dependencies in, if possible. 3) Becoming a maintainer on this road The playground project maintainer reaches the stage "Graduating from the Playground". S/he would probably like to maintain this module either in Qt essentials or as an add-on in a normal case. It means that s/he would like become a maintainer. According to the Qt Governance model [2]: "...How to become a Maintainer An Approver who makes a high level of contribution to the Project, particularly to its strategic direction and long-term success, may be nominated as a Maintainer by an existing Maintainer..." How about this workflow in this case ? I guess some of the Qt Playground project maintainers are not approver. Do they first need to get nominated for this role, or can they ask the graduating from playground directly without that process meanwhile becoming the maintainer of the freshly proposed module ? 4) Review process "...It's easy to kick off a new module or tool in the Qt project. With the approval of a Qt Maintainer, you can request a new project to be added to the Qt Playground area of codereview.qt-project.org..." What does it mean precisely ? Does it mean that I have the same workflow in playground as in the final stage o
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi, >>> Send your request for a new Playground project (including project name >> and description) to the Qt maintainer from whom you have pre-approval. >>> CC to sergio.ahumada at nokia.com and Gerrit Expert Group (email address >> TBD). >> >> I think I'd prefer to see this on an infra@ type list, again, so people can >> keep >> informed (if they want), and there's no need to change CCs and get outdated >> information over time. There's also then an archive of this stuff happening, >> which is usually a good thing. > > The Gerrit Expert Group mailing list was intended to work as an archive. It > doesn't exist yet. > > Sergio, I guess you'll be on that list anyway, so we could simplify this to > just sending the emal to the list and to the approving maintainer? > > Cheers, > Henry > Yes, I'll be in that list as well. "people can keep informed (if they want)" means that if I want to be informed I can subscribe to the Gerrit Expert Group ML ? I'd say that if this is going to be sent to development@ anyways (as Robin suggested) there is no need for yet another ML. Also I don't see the GEG ML as an "archive" for Playground requests but rather as a place to discuss about Gerrit itself. But maybe I misunderstood the idea. Cheers, -- Sergio Ahumada Mobile Phones Middleware - Quality Engineering http://wikis.in.nokia.com/QtQualityEngineering ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
> From: ro...@viroteck.net [mailto:ro...@viroteck.net] On Behalf Of ext > Just to clarify what I mean here - I don't envisage most of these will require > much discussion. It just provides the capability for it if it's necessary. > Just look > at the approver nominations so far - there's not really been much discussion, > other than a bunch of +1ing, but that way people know what is going on. > > So, for instance, if someone wants a playground project to add > supermegacoolnewfeature, I know about it, so I can keep an eye on it (and > maybe drop them a patch). Likewise, if someone proposes, say, to > experiment with Qt's MVC s in the playground, someone could nudge them > to take a look at itemviews-ng, which did some work on exactly this OK, that makes perfect sense to me :) Cheers, Henry ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 6:16 PM, wrote: >> Having these on a list also mirrors the structure for approval nomination. >> > > I think it'd be important to keep the barrier very low. It should be possible > to start competing or crazy projects. So this approval from a Maintainer > shouldn't usually require a lot of discussion, and it shouldn't be necessary > for someone to object to creating playground projects. But I agree it'd be > good to have an opportunity to see the initial discussion. Just to clarify what I mean here - I don't envisage most of these will require much discussion. It just provides the capability for it if it's necessary. Just look at the approver nominations so far - there's not really been much discussion, other than a bunch of +1ing, but that way people know what is going on. So, for instance, if someone wants a playground project to add supermegacoolnewfeature, I know about it, so I can keep an eye on it (and maybe drop them a patch). Likewise, if someone proposes, say, to experiment with Qt's MVC s in the playground, someone could nudge them to take a look at itemviews-ng, which did some work on exactly this ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi Robin, > From: ro...@viroteck.net [mailto:ro...@viroteck.net] On Behalf Of ext > Robin Burchell > > Agree with a Qt maintainer that s/he will approve your new playground > > project > > Can we agree that this approval should be done on development@? That > way, the discussion around the suggestion is visible and (if needed) someone > could raise concerns, point out areas of interest like past research, etc. I > don't > think that would end up too verbose, after alll, this shouldn't happen too > often. > > > Having these on a list also mirrors the structure for approval nomination. > I think it'd be important to keep the barrier very low. It should be possible to start competing or crazy projects. So this approval from a Maintainer shouldn't usually require a lot of discussion, and it shouldn't be necessary for someone to object to creating playground projects. But I agree it'd be good to have an opportunity to see the initial discussion. How do others see this? > > Send your request for a new Playground project (including project name > and description) to the Qt maintainer from whom you have pre-approval. > > CC to sergio.ahumada at nokia.com and Gerrit Expert Group (email address > TBD). > > I think I'd prefer to see this on an infra@ type list, again, so people can > keep > informed (if they want), and there's no need to change CCs and get outdated > information over time. There's also then an archive of this stuff happening, > which is usually a good thing. The Gerrit Expert Group mailing list was intended to work as an archive. It doesn't exist yet. Sergio, I guess you'll be on that list anyway, so we could simplify this to just sending the emal to the list and to the approving maintainer? Cheers, Henry ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi Laszlo, > If a developer would like to move a project that is started as "QtX", I should > rename it to "Y" or something like that, and then back again to "X" ? > Practical > example: QtOpenaL (coming for instance from a KDE > repository) -> "3D Audio" (Qt Playground) -> QtOpenAL (Qt Final) The instructions were written with brand new projects in mind, but I agree we need to consider existing projects that move to Qt Project. The contribution agreement needs some special consideration here, so I'll work with Cristy on making that addition. For a new project, you could pick a name like 3D Audio, and then if it is moved into an actual module it could be called Qt 3D Audio. OpenAL is a special case because it is a 3rd party technology name. Whether using it in the module name falls under "fair use" would have to be checked with Qt Project Legal. > I can probably guess the reasons, but it might just seem like an overhead for > new contributors at first glance in the aforementioned example. I am not > writing it is bad, but it would probably be reasonable to write a more > detailed > description of what the reason for this is. :) There are pros and cons for > this > decision, and if you mention why the decisions are made, it would make it > clearer for contributors more explicitely why you stick by that. In some cases we expect there to be several related playground projects, so it would not necessarily be fair to allocate a good name like "Qt Physics Engine" (just an example) for the first physics engine related playground activity. It needs to be given to the project that actually graduates into a real Qt module. Another reason for not using the Qt prefix is that we'd like to make sure the playground projects are not mistaken as actual Qt modules, because they don't have that status yet. > > Graduating from the Playground > > Once your project becomes more mature, it can be moved out of the > playground, and become a Qt module or tool. This decision is done on the qt- > development > mailing list and requires the approval of the Chief Maintainer. > > When your project is moved from the playground to the Qt project area, > the playground name needs to be changed to a descriptive Qt module or tool > name. > > Could you please document the review process more thoroughly ? II guess > the whole history is not available in many cases. It would be nice, unless you > already started the project in this playground repository. I am also > interested > in the review process in general about new modules and tools. It is > somewhat different in the sense, they are not logical commit by commit > reviews. More precisely, if I do not have a proper history, is it enough to > put > for review that way, or I need to refactor the project to get proper history > first ? It might be a bit of a hard task in certain cases, but would bring > more > quality into the project. The idea in this section of the wiki was to discuss the general spirit fit and technical fit of the project as a new Qt module on the mailing list, before including the module in Qt releases. I don't know how detailed technical review and API review would be done for a module that has a long history (or might lack a part of the history in the repository). Lars and others, do you have comments on this? Best regards, Henry ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
On Friday, December 09, 2011 14:00:13 Laszlo Papp wrote: > > https://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt > > > > Choose a descriptive playground project name. The name should not > > include "Qt". For example "Extra Effects", "Mime Types" > If a developer would like to move a project that is started as "QtX", > I should rename it to "Y" or something like that, and then back again > to "X" ? Practical example: QtOpenaL (coming for instance from a KDE > repository) -> "3D Audio" (Qt Playground) -> QtOpenAL (Qt Final) The page doesn't say anything about whether QtAddons need an agreement to the Nokia CLA from all contributors, but I assume that is a requirement. You'd need to be careful that you are the only contributor of code that comes from elsewhere. Just to be clear. Thanks, -- Stephen Kelly | Software Engineer KDAB (Deutschland) GmbH & Co.KG, a KDAB Group Company www.kdab.com || Germany +49-30-521325470 || Sweden (HQ) +46-563-540090 KDAB - Qt Experts - Platform-Independent Software Solutions signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi Henry, On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:18 AM, wrote: > This page introduces the Qt Project playground (a low-barrier area for > experimenting with new ideas), gives some naming guidelines for modules > and tools, and documents the module repository structure. Thanks for getting this started. I have two small points: > Agree with a Qt maintainer that s/he will approve your new playground project Can we agree that this approval should be done on development@? That way, the discussion around the suggestion is visible and (if needed) someone could raise concerns, point out areas of interest like past research, etc. I don't think that would end up too verbose, after alll, this shouldn't happen too often. Having these on a list also mirrors the structure for approval nomination. > Send your request for a new Playground project (including project name and > description) to the Qt maintainer from whom you have pre-approval. > CC to sergio.ahumada at nokia.com and Gerrit Expert Group (email address TBD). I think I'd prefer to see this on an infra@ type list, again, so people can keep informed (if they want), and there's no need to change CCs and get outdated information over time. There's also then an archive of this stuff happening, which is usually a good thing. The rest looks quite useful & informative, will take a bit longer to digest the technical content rather than the process bits. :) BR, Robin ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi Henry, > https://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt > Choose a descriptive playground project name. The name should not include > "Qt". For example "Extra Effects", "Mime Types" If a developer would like to move a project that is started as "QtX", I should rename it to "Y" or something like that, and then back again to "X" ? Practical example: QtOpenaL (coming for instance from a KDE repository) -> "3D Audio" (Qt Playground) -> QtOpenAL (Qt Final) I can probably guess the reasons, but it might just seem like an overhead for new contributors at first glance in the aforementioned example. I am not writing it is bad, but it would probably be reasonable to write a more detailed description of what the reason for this is. :) There are pros and cons for this decision, and if you mention why the decisions are made, it would make it clearer for contributors more explicitely why you stick by that. > Graduating from the Playground > Once your project becomes more mature, it can be moved out of the playground, > and become a Qt module or tool. This decision is done on the qt-development > > mailing list and requires the approval of the Chief Maintainer. > When your project is moved from the playground to the Qt project area, the > playground name needs to be changed to a descriptive Qt module or tool name. Could you please document the review process more thoroughly ? II guess the whole history is not available in many cases. It would be nice, unless you already started the project in this playground repository. I am also interested in the review process in general about new modules and tools. It is somewhat different in the sense, they are not logical commit by commit reviews. More precisely, if I do not have a proper history, is it enough to put for review that way, or I need to refactor the project to get proper history first ? It might be a bit of a hard task in certain cases, but would bring more quality into the project. Thank you for sharing the wikipage. It is nice to see there is already some documentation. :) Best Regards, Laszlo Papp ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
[Development] How to create new Qt modules or tools
Hi all, So far it has not been clear how you could start working on a new module or tool in the Qt project. We've now created a wiki page for this information here: https://wiki.qt-project.org/Creating_a_new_module_or_tool_for_Qt This page introduces the Qt Project playground (a low-barrier area for experimenting with new ideas), gives some naming guidelines for modules and tools, and documents the module repository structure. Please review! Best regards, Henry ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
