Re: [xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Vincent Massol]

Hi Edy,

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 21:13, Eduard Moraru  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Now, I`m not sure of all the details, but what I remember is that they were
> a handful of keys that were recently introduced (Nested Spaces work) and
> deprecating them did not seem very justified at the time.

Well apparently they were quite spaced out from XWiki 7.2M3 to 7.4.3/8.0RC1.

> I considered that
> we would start dragging them along when they were too young to have been
> used.
> 
> I had fixed the FR and NL translations (only ones existing) on
> l10n.xwiki.org for the rename action, however I did seem to have missed the
> copy action [1].

Actually I spent some hours fixing the FR translations some week(s) ago as they 
were broken in the same way as the copy action is now (I’m fixing that, spent 
some time today to fix stuff on l10n this morning and then got stopped by other 
things but I’m planning to finish fixing the FR translations).

Somehow I introduced some errors when I fixed the FR translations back then, by 
using the unicode escapes instead of accented characters and this resulted in 
[2] (which I have fixed this morning).

But I didn’t check the other translations. I’ll leave that to you if you’re ok.

> The screenshot [2] from the rename action does not really look like the
> same thing. It seems to be a bad choice of accented characters that needs
> to be replaced with something standard, something that can happen in any
> translation and that is not particularly related to the change of the EN
> key`s value.
> 
> I am perfectly aware of the general rule and I agree with it.
> 
> AFAICT, the only affected languages were FR and NL.

Could you check that? Note that I had to fix the FR translations a while back 
to remove the CHOICE constructs since that was not leading to good results in 
French. I don’t remember the details though.

> IMO, the solution is to fix the l10n translations for those languages and
> include them in the next release of 7.x, 8.x and 9.x. For the supported
> branches (other than master), if we don`t want to update the translations
> during the release, we could manually commit the changes in the translation
> files on git, for the affected keys. Reverting does not make much sense,
> IMO, since it implies the same, if not more, amount of work to get to a
> state that still has the original jira issue's problem.
> 
> WDYT?

Sure, fine with me if you can handle the non-FR translations and the branches.

Thanks!
-Vincent

> Thanks,
> Eduard
> 
> --
> [1] http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33274/FrTransCopier.jpg
> [2] http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33273/FrTranslationIssue.jpg
> 
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu  wrote:
> 
>> This has been there for a lng time:
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/L10N+Conventions#
>> HUpdatingtranslations
>> 
>> On 12/08/2016 07:46 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>> Hi devs,
>>> 
>>> The story
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 1) We introduced some new translations keys in https://github.com/xwiki/
>> xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-
>> fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746
>>> 
>>> That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested
>> documents), i.e. in 7.2M3
>>> 
>>> 2) We modified the keys in https://github.com/xwiki/
>> xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
>>> 
>>> That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear
>> that both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”),
>> i.e. in XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3
>>> 
>>> 3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in
>> problems such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this
>> issue reports the issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the
>> translations for other languages.
>>> 
>>> The learnings
>>> ===
>>> 
>>> 1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is
>> the equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through
>> deprecation of existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s
>> a pain. http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/
>> DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices would probably benefit
>> from additional explanations too.
>>> 
>>> 2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that
>> would break the build if someone changes the format of a
>> translation.Easiest would be a tool that compares the English translations
>> on master vs the last released version and breaks if there’s a difference
>> in parameter (i.e. {N} syntax).
>>> 
>>> 3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in
>> XWIKI-13067 or B) revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought
>> to some translations keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to
>> evaluate the extent of the damage.
>>> 
>>> Any volunteer for 3)? :)
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent

Re: [xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Eduard Moraru]

Hi,

Now, I`m not sure of all the details, but what I remember is that they were
a handful of keys that were recently introduced (Nested Spaces work) and
deprecating them did not seem very justified at the time. I considered that
we would start dragging them along when they were too young to have been
used.

I had fixed the FR and NL translations (only ones existing) on
l10n.xwiki.org for the rename action, however I did seem to have missed the
copy action [1].

The screenshot [2] from the rename action does not really look like the
same thing. It seems to be a bad choice of accented characters that needs
to be replaced with something standard, something that can happen in any
translation and that is not particularly related to the change of the EN
key`s value.

I am perfectly aware of the general rule and I agree with it.

AFAICT, the only affected languages were FR and NL.

IMO, the solution is to fix the l10n translations for those languages and
include them in the next release of 7.x, 8.x and 9.x. For the supported
branches (other than master), if we don`t want to update the translations
during the release, we could manually commit the changes in the translation
files on git, for the affected keys. Reverting does not make much sense,
IMO, since it implies the same, if not more, amount of work to get to a
state that still has the original jira issue's problem.

WDYT?

Thanks,
Eduard

--
[1] http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33274/FrTransCopier.jpg
[2] http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33273/FrTranslationIssue.jpg

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu  wrote:

> This has been there for a lng time:
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/L10N+Conventions#
> HUpdatingtranslations
>
> On 12/08/2016 07:46 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > The story
> > 
> >
> > 1) We introduced some new translations keys in https://github.com/xwiki/
> xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-
> fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746
> >
> > That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested
> documents), i.e. in 7.2M3
> >
> > 2) We modified the keys in https://github.com/xwiki/
> xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
> >
> > That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear
> that both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”),
> i.e. in XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3
> >
> > 3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in
> problems such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this
> issue reports the issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the
> translations for other languages.
> >
> > The learnings
> > ===
> >
> > 1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is
> the equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through
> deprecation of existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s
> a pain. http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/
> DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices would probably benefit
> from additional explanations too.
> >
> > 2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that
> would break the build if someone changes the format of a
> translation.Easiest would be a tool that compares the English translations
> on master vs the last released version and breaks if there’s a difference
> in parameter (i.e. {N} syntax).
> >
> > 3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in
> XWIKI-13067 or B) revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought
> to some translations keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to
> evaluate the extent of the damage.
> >
> > Any volunteer for 3)? :)
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Sergiu Dumitriu]

This has been there for a lng time:
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/L10N+Conventions#HUpdatingtranslations

On 12/08/2016 07:46 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> Hi devs,
> 
> The story
> 
> 
> 1) We introduced some new translations keys in 
> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746
> 
> That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested 
> documents), i.e. in 7.2M3
> 
> 2) We modified the keys in 
> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
> 
> That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear that 
> both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”), i.e. in 
> XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3
> 
> 3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in problems 
> such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this issue reports 
> the issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the translations for 
> other languages.
> 
> The learnings
> ===
> 
> 1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is the 
> equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through deprecation of 
> existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s a pain. 
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices
>  would probably benefit from additional explanations too.
> 
> 2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that would 
> break the build if someone changes the format of a translation.Easiest would 
> be a tool that compares the English translations on master vs the last 
> released version and breaks if there’s a difference in parameter (i.e. {N} 
> syntax).
> 
> 3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in XWIKI-13067 or 
> B) revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought to some 
> translations keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to evaluate the 
> extent of the damage.
> 
> Any volunteer for 3)? :)
> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu

Re: [xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Thomas Mortagne]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
>
>> On 8 Dec 2016, at 14:01, Thomas Mortagne  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
>>> Hi devs,
>>>
>>> The story
>>> 
>>>
>>> 1) We introduced some new translations keys in 
>>> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746
>>>
>>> That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested 
>>> documents), i.e. in 7.2M3
>>>
>>> 2) We modified the keys in 
>>> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
>>>
>>> That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear 
>>> that both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”), 
>>> i.e. in XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3
>>>
>>> 3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in 
>>> problems such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this 
>>> issue reports the issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the 
>>> translations for other languages.
>>>
>>> The learnings
>>> ===
>>>
>>> 1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is 
>>> the equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through 
>>> deprecation of existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s 
>>> a pain. 
>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices
>>>  would probably benefit from additional explanations too.
>>
>> Well this is not really new and it's already our rule.
>
> That’s precisely my point! It’s our rule but it’s not documented.

It's possible it's documented only in ApplicationResource.properties
file yes. I guess we forgot to document it when
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices
section was created.

>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>>
>>>
>>> 2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that would 
>>> break the build if someone changes the format of a translation.Easiest 
>>> would be a tool that compares the English translations on master vs the 
>>> last released version and breaks if there’s a difference in parameter (i.e. 
>>> {N} syntax).
>>>
>>> 3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in XWIKI-13067 
>>> or B) revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought to some 
>>> translations keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to evaluate the 
>>> extent of the damage.
>>>
>>> Any volunteer for 3)? :)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>



-- 
Thomas Mortagne

Re: [xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Vincent Massol]

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 14:01, Thomas Mortagne  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
>> Hi devs,
>> 
>> The story
>> 
>> 
>> 1) We introduced some new translations keys in 
>> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746
>> 
>> That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested 
>> documents), i.e. in 7.2M3
>> 
>> 2) We modified the keys in 
>> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
>> 
>> That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear 
>> that both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”), i.e. 
>> in XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3
>> 
>> 3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in 
>> problems such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this issue 
>> reports the issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the 
>> translations for other languages.
>> 
>> The learnings
>> ===
>> 
>> 1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is the 
>> equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through deprecation of 
>> existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s a pain. 
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices
>>  would probably benefit from additional explanations too.
> 
> Well this is not really new and it's already our rule.

That’s precisely my point! It’s our rule but it’s not documented.

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
>> 
>> 2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that would 
>> break the build if someone changes the format of a translation.Easiest would 
>> be a tool that compares the English translations on master vs the last 
>> released version and breaks if there’s a difference in parameter (i.e. {N} 
>> syntax).
>> 
>> 3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in XWIKI-13067 or 
>> B) revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought to some 
>> translations keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to evaluate the 
>> extent of the damage.
>> 
>> Any volunteer for 3)? :)
>> 
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Thomas Mortagne

Re: [xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Thomas Mortagne]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> The story
> 
>
> 1) We introduced some new translations keys in 
> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746
>
> That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested 
> documents), i.e. in 7.2M3
>
> 2) We modified the keys in 
> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
>
> That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear that 
> both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”), i.e. in 
> XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3
>
> 3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in problems 
> such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this issue reports 
> the issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the translations for 
> other languages.
>
> The learnings
> ===
>
> 1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is the 
> equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through deprecation of 
> existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s a pain. 
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices
>  would probably benefit from additional explanations too.

Well this is not really new and it's already our rule.

>
> 2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that would 
> break the build if someone changes the format of a translation.Easiest would 
> be a tool that compares the English translations on master vs the last 
> released version and breaks if there’s a difference in parameter (i.e. {N} 
> syntax).
>
> 3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in XWIKI-13067 or 
> B) revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought to some 
> translations keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to evaluate the 
> extent of the damage.
>
> Any volunteer for 3)? :)
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Thomas Mortagne

[xwiki-devs] [BackwardCompatibility] Breakage in translations for Copy/Rename/Move

[Vincent Massol]

Hi devs,

The story


1) We introduced some new translations keys in 
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/5c50e2e88bb7cf592c1ecedcf0f34781e1fbc81f#diff-fffbf37334c4d7a178b13f4ccc313f86R746

That was done in XWIKI-12431 (Adapt the "rename" action for nested documents), 
i.e. in 7.2M3

2) We modified the keys in 
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6

That was done in XWIKI-13067 ("Rename: Change the label to make it clear that 
both links and backlinks are updated or have 2 separate options”), i.e. in 
XWiki 8.0-rc-1, 7.4.3

3) The consequence is that all translations got broken, resulting in problems 
such as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XINFRA-219. However this issue reports the 
issue only for French but it’s likely that it broke the translations for other 
languages.

The learnings
===

1) We must never change the format of existing translation keys. This is the 
equivalent of breaking an API. Instead we need to go through deprecation of 
existing keys and introduction of new keys, even though it’s a pain. 
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HTranslationBestPractices
 would probably benefit from additional explanations too.

2) We would need a tool in the quality profile of our build/CI that would break 
the build if someone changes the format of a translation.Easiest would be a 
tool that compares the English translations on master vs the last released 
version and breaks if there’s a difference in parameter (i.e. {N} syntax).

3) We need to decide if A) we keep the current change done in XWIKI-13067 or B) 
revert them and revert/adapt the changes already brought to some translations 
keys (as it was done for FR). For this we need to evaluate the extent of the 
damage.

Any volunteer for 3)? :)

Thanks
-Vincent