Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Wednesday, 3 August 2016 at 13:34:13 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Wednesday, 3 August 2016 at 07:35:28 UTC, deadalnix wrote: And how is this legal tender emitted ? With debt. Do you mean how money is created? The Fed and other major central banks use open market operations like repos or outright asset purchases to control the money supply. For outright asset purchases, a central bank buys bonds from commercial banks. The banks then have more cash on their balance sheets that they can lend. At least this step results in less debt held by the public. The rest of the process is that the banks then lend out the money and because of fractional reserves more and more is created as the money gets lent. I agree that debt is used in the money creation process. However, this doesn't make money debt. However, sometimes debt can be very money-like, e.g. U.S. T-bills. Banks in the US haven't been constrained by reserves since the 90s, when regulatory change interacting with sweep accounts, and so on, meant they could meet reserve requirements using vault cash held for ATMs. That's why credit growth accelerated and asset prices went vertical from 1995 onwards. So QE operates not so much via direct effects on bank reserves and more via portfolio balance effects - the guy that sold the bonds to the Fed has to go buy something else - maybe corporate bonds. And this ripples out and compresses risk premia and has consequences for the real economy. Whether this is a good idea is another question.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Wednesday, 3 August 2016 at 07:35:28 UTC, deadalnix wrote: And how is this legal tender emitted ? With debt. Do you mean how money is created? The Fed and other major central banks use open market operations like repos or outright asset purchases to control the money supply. For outright asset purchases, a central bank buys bonds from commercial banks. The banks then have more cash on their balance sheets that they can lend. At least this step results in less debt held by the public. The rest of the process is that the banks then lend out the money and because of fractional reserves more and more is created as the money gets lent. I agree that debt is used in the money creation process. However, this doesn't make money debt. However, sometimes debt can be very money-like, e.g. U.S. T-bills.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 11:44:17 UTC, qznc wrote: On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 08:07:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote: I was thinking about the value of what we do in the life, daily, the jobs, etc I've endend with this conclusion: The more you're able to create debt, the more you'll earn. example, CIO: hudge pay, because your 1000 salaries will create a lot of debt. Architect, huge pay: your client will create a debt on 20 years, etc...you see the logic. The more your job maintains the system the more it'll be renumerated. The amount of money you earn is actually not proportional to your work, the amount of money you earn simply represents your ability to create debts. What do you think about that ? According to Graeber [0], money = debt. However, I assume your comment comes from a socio-critical position, Yes, this is a bit the prysm, though much less than when I was younger. Also I was a bit high when I've written this and now I'm a bit embarassed to see this topic on front of the home-page ( :/ ) where you want to associate overpaid bosses with negative words like "debt". Note that debt is not inherently a bad or evil thing, especially not for the rich. Debt is not something to be avoided. It is something to be managed. Likewise a programmer should not avoid technical debt completely. Instead it should be consciously taken, managed, and payed in due time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years The problem with the debt system is that we end with countries that does not produce anymore rough basic goods, and that barely produce their own foods, growth becomes totally abstract. Whatever you produce during your whole life (either goods, services, etc) is not anymore enough for growth, it's not anymore the center of the system. The 2010's years crisis of the sovereign debts in Europe has shown how this is weak, unstable and toxic: people were not suddenly less productive or less competent however suddenly their "production" had less value...
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:26:07 UTC, Rufus Smith wrote: Now the system has become cancerous. There is no natural way to escape it(it can't be avoided). There are plenty of way to escape it, you just don't want to be sleeping half naked on the ground in a forest with no toilet paper.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 19:51:04 UTC, jmh530 wrote: When I look on my money (US dollars) it says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." This means that you can pay debts with it. It doesn't mean that it is a debt. And how is this legal tender emitted ? With debt.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:25:15 UTC, dewitt wrote: "You have no reason to remember, but we came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt," -Hillary Clinton politican says. how dare i to think that politican can lie?!
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 21:01:13 UTC, jmh530 wrote: On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:26:07 UTC, Rufus Smith wrote: [snip] It is a beast of an organism and is a parasite on humanity. Luckily if it kills us off completely it will die too ;) Sigh... yep. he made a right conclusion, but identified the wrong enemy. ;-)
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:26:07 UTC, Rufus Smith wrote: [snip] It is a beast of an organism and is a parasite on humanity. Luckily if it kills us off completely it will die too ;) Sigh...
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 08:07:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote: I was thinking about the value of what we do in the life, daily, the jobs, etc I've endend with this conclusion: The more you're able to create debt, the more you'll earn. example, CIO: hudge pay, because your 1000 salaries will create a lot of debt. Architect, huge pay: your client will create a debt on 20 years, etc...you see the logic. The more your job maintains the system the more it'll be renumerated. The amount of money you earn is actually not proportional to your work, the amount of money you earn simply represents your ability to create debts. What do you think about that ? The whole point of money was for debt! How do you think it got started? It probably started out as a friendly "Yeah Bro, I'll cover ya". Once people realized it could enslave others it was the first mind game. Be friendly, "cover" a lot of people's asses... Then just collect. Whether it happened on a evolutionary scale or starting with one person is immaterial. Now the system has become cancerous. There is no natural way to escape it(it can't be avoided). Debt creates unhappiness.. a feeling of self-worthlessness. When some people are unhappy they eat a lot more than normal, they play with their toys more and want more toys, etc... Virtually all of them in up costing money, which puts them in more debt. This is happening on a global scale. Think of about mathematically. If the top 10 people in the world own 98% of the wealth, that means 98% of essentially the entire world is in debt to 10 people. This means that the human population is enslaved in one mind set(those 10 people act as a singular unit and project on to the world their value system. Think of a slave owner and how he treats his slaves), in a state of unhappiness, and it's not getting better. It matters not if my figures are exact or approximate, even 1000% inaccuracy doesn't improve matters. It is a beast of an organism and is a parasite on humanity. Luckily if it kills us off completely it will die too ;)
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:09:51 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:04:19 UTC, CRAIG DILLABAUGH wrote: If this is true then politicians should be very well paid. have you ever seen poor politican? "You have no reason to remember, but we came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt," -Hillary Clinton
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 20:04:19 UTC, CRAIG DILLABAUGH wrote: If this is true then politicians should be very well paid. have you ever seen poor politican?
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 08:07:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote: I was thinking about the value of what we do in the life, daily, the jobs, etc I've endend with this conclusion: The more you're able to create debt, the more you'll earn. example, CIO: hudge pay, because your 1000 salaries will create a lot of debt. Architect, huge pay: your client will create a debt on 20 years, etc...you see the logic. The more your job maintains the system the more it'll be renumerated. The amount of money you earn is actually not proportional to your work, the amount of money you earn simply represents your ability to create debts. What do you think about that ? If this is true then politicians should be very well paid.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 18:43:59 UTC, deadalnix wrote: Money == debt, so nothing surprising or new here. In this day and age, money does not carry with it an obligation that the government needs to pay you anything. When I look on my money (US dollars) it says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." This means that you can pay debts with it. It doesn't mean that it is a debt. Contrast this with a Treasury bill, where it is an agreement to pay the holder a certain amount of money on a specific date. That's debt.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 08:07:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote: What do you think about that ? Money == debt, so nothing surprising or new here.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 11:44:17 UTC, qznc wrote: According to Graeber [0], money = debt. Graeber has a superficial understanding of monetary economics. Even Brad Delong wrote a whole series of blog posts about the mistakes in that book.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 08:07:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote: What do you think about that ? For competitive markets, I would direct you to this theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_revenue_productivity_theory_of_wages An architect has a high salary because the dollar value of his productivity is very high (good architect -> new building, bad architect -> maybe no building, maybe crappy building). Debt is needed to build the building, but the debt itself doesn't explain the productivity. Apple has historically had very little debt, but they pay their workers a lot.
Re: [OT] Create more debt == earn more
On Tuesday, 2 August 2016 at 08:07:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote: I was thinking about the value of what we do in the life, daily, the jobs, etc I've endend with this conclusion: The more you're able to create debt, the more you'll earn. example, CIO: hudge pay, because your 1000 salaries will create a lot of debt. Architect, huge pay: your client will create a debt on 20 years, etc...you see the logic. The more your job maintains the system the more it'll be renumerated. The amount of money you earn is actually not proportional to your work, the amount of money you earn simply represents your ability to create debts. What do you think about that ? According to Graeber [0], money = debt. However, I assume your comment comes from a socio-critical position, where you want to associate overpaid bosses with negative words like "debt". Note that debt is not inherently a bad or evil thing, especially not for the rich. Debt is not something to be avoided. It is something to be managed. Likewise a programmer should not avoid technical debt completely. Instead it should be consciously taken, managed, and payed in due time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years
[OT] Create more debt == earn more
I was thinking about the value of what we do in the life, daily, the jobs, etc I've endend with this conclusion: The more you're able to create debt, the more you'll earn. example, CIO: hudge pay, because your 1000 salaries will create a lot of debt. Architect, huge pay: your client will create a debt on 20 years, etc...you see the logic. The more your job maintains the system the more it'll be renumerated. The amount of money you earn is actually not proportional to your work, the amount of money you earn simply represents your ability to create debts. What do you think about that ?
