Re: Then new forum moderation
On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 at 14:59:20 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 at 09:09:30 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 15:11:20 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: For example: If a person knows VB/Delphi and now he is trying D and have any doubt, he will need to evolve first to understand ternary before posting something, because ternary in these languages are different. You underestimate delphi programmers if you think they can't learn ternary operator. I didn't say they can't learn, and as quoted I said it's different in these languages (I mean the symbols involved). By the way, since D has inline assembler attribute, why not use it for captchas too? Because according to you: On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 07:43:39 UTC, Kagamin wrote: I don't think you can go into programming from absolute zero. The programmer should at least know Assembly, right? S.G. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 at 09:09:30 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 15:11:20 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: For example: If a person knows VB/Delphi and now he is trying D and have any doubt, he will need to evolve first to understand ternary before posting something, because ternary in these languages are different. You underestimate delphi programmers if you think they can't learn ternary operator. I didn't say they can't learn, and as quoted I said it's different in these languages (I mean the symbols involved). By the way, since D has inline assembler attribute, why not use it for captchas too? Because according to you: On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 07:43:39 UTC, Kagamin wrote: I don't think you can go into programming from absolute zero. The programmer should at least know Assembly, right? S.G.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 15:11:20 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: For example: If a person knows VB/Delphi and now he is trying D and have any doubt, he will need to evolve first to understand ternary before posting something, because ternary in these languages are different. You underestimate delphi programmers if you think they can't learn ternary operator.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 13:16:14 UTC, Chris wrote: The captchas are awful, why would you want to waste brain cycles on that if you wanna send a one line response or so... If it is for mitigate spam/bot, you can easily by pass it with a simple script[1]. I'd prefer a captcha system that is commonly used than some that requires a specific knowledge of a language, which may be a barrier for newbies. [1] https://forum.dlang.org/post/gpykpzmwrpcowktue...@forum.dlang.org S.G.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 07:43:39 UTC, Kagamin wrote: I don't think you can go into programming from absolute zero. So I assume for what you're saying that anybody who comes here already knows at least: ternary, promotion, implicit casting. For example: If a person knows VB/Delphi and now he is trying D and have any doubt, he will need to evolve first to understand ternary before posting something, because ternary in these languages are different. Awesome and great mentality. S.G.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:48:35 UTC, SashaGreat wrote:
I'll not create a topic to check this behavior, but this
message doesn't show up when replying inside a topic.
PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to us:
int v()
{
return 26 % 3
? 13 / 3
: 42 % 5;
}
I mean
S.G.
The captchas are awful, why would you want to waste brain cycles
on that if you wanna send a one line response or so. Why not have
captchas like most other websites that give you a random
selection of letters/numbers in an image file like "2B4aHg". You
just need to type them into a text field. A programming /
D-specific captcha is a bit nahhh. But it tells you something
about the mentality...
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 07:43:39 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Monday, 24 September 2018 at 12:56:43 UTC, JN wrote: Well, it requires you to know what a ternary operator is It wouldn't be a captcha if the questions were like "what is the most popular social network?". Also int doesn't implicitly convert to bool. On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 05:52:57 UTC, bauss wrote: Not for someone who is just introduced to programming and doesn't D want to attract newcomers? If so we cannot have a programmer specific captcha. I don't think you can go into programming from absolute zero. I mean if you want to learn about history, what if history forums presented you with something like: "In which country was the first monarchy?" Monarchy is prehistoric (watching the Troy movie should be enough), and yes, history forums do something like that. Also you don't study history out of the blue, you're taught it in school. You can as a student at the university, where you're just introduced to programming. How is monarchy prehistoric? Monarchies still exist today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_monarchies That is beside my point though, my point was not about history and you completely missed it. Facepalm.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Monday, 24 September 2018 at 12:56:43 UTC, JN wrote: Well, it requires you to know what a ternary operator is It wouldn't be a captcha if the questions were like "what is the most popular social network?". Also int doesn't implicitly convert to bool. On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 05:52:57 UTC, bauss wrote: Not for someone who is just introduced to programming and doesn't D want to attract newcomers? If so we cannot have a programmer specific captcha. I don't think you can go into programming from absolute zero. I mean if you want to learn about history, what if history forums presented you with something like: "In which country was the first monarchy?" Monarchy is prehistoric (watching the Troy movie should be enough), and yes, history forums do something like that. Also you don't study history out of the blue, you're taught it in school.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 at 05:52:57 UTC, bauss wrote: Not for someone who is just introduced to programming and doesn't D want to attract newcomers? If so we cannot have a programmer specific captcha. https://forum.dlang.org/post/vrehthdqtenpnysru...@forum.dlang.org Please address the counter-arguments directly instead of just reiterating your flawed arguments elsewhere in the thread.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Monday, 24 September 2018 at 12:44:09 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:48:35 UTC, SashaGreat
wrote:
PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to
us:
int v()
{
return 26 % 3
? 13 / 3
: 42 % 5;
}
I mean
Awww, that's cute! Finding a remainder from division by 3
(three!) is junior school arithmetic. And in this case you
don't even need to properly calculate it, only guess that it's
not zero. I don't see a good excuse to fail at it.
Not for someone who is just introduced to programming and doesn't
D want to attract newcomers? If so we cannot have a programmer
specific captcha.
I mean if you want to learn about history, what if history forums
presented you with something like:
"In which country was the first monarchy?"
You'd never know the answer on top of your head unless yoy,
A: Lives in the country that established the first monarchy
B: You google it (Which is an unnecessary burden, because you
don't want to be searching stuff just to post on a forum.)
C: You have studied history
D: You're extremely lucky or have gathered the knowledge in one
way or another, but most people will not know such answeres on
top of their head.
Re: Then new forum moderation
An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold ... Within a forum's topic, each new discussion started is called a thread, and can be replied to by as many people Moderators also answer users' concerns about the forum, general questions, as well as respond to specific complaints
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Monday, 24 September 2018 at 12:56:43 UTC, JN wrote: Awww, that's cute! Finding a remainder from division by 3 (three!) is junior school arithmetic. And in this case you don't even need to properly calculate it, only guess that it's not zero. I don't see a good excuse to fail at it. Well, it requires you to know what a ternary operator is and how it works. Also, how ints are implicitly converted to bool. Also would be good to know if 13/3 is 4 or 4.33 Exactly and thank you JN. I help CS students at my uni and things that seems trivial are sometimes hard for newbies. And like you said, there are 2 things in that snippet besides the math: Ternary and a implicit conversion to from int to bool. Unfortunately skilled people may overlook this because it's natural to them. S.G.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Monday, 24 September 2018 at 12:44:09 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:48:35 UTC, SashaGreat
wrote:
PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to
us:
int v()
{
return 26 % 3
? 13 / 3
: 42 % 5;
}
I mean
Awww, that's cute! Finding a remainder from division by 3
(three!) is junior school arithmetic. And in this case you
don't even need to properly calculate it, only guess that it's
not zero. I don't see a good excuse to fail at it.
Well, it requires you to know what a ternary operator is and how
it works. Also, how ints are implicitly converted to bool. Also
would be good to know if 13/3 is 4 or 4.33
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:48:35 UTC, SashaGreat wrote:
PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to us:
int v()
{
return 26 % 3
? 13 / 3
: 42 % 5;
}
I mean
Awww, that's cute! Finding a remainder from division by 3
(three!) is junior school arithmetic. And in this case you don't
even need to properly calculate it, only guess that it's not
zero. I don't see a good excuse to fail at it.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 21:42:11 UTC, bauss wrote: Maybe it should be visible to more users? At present I do not believe this would bring an observable benefit.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 19:41:56 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 19:09:24 UTC, bauss wrote: And on top of that maybe a flag system. This exists, but is only visible to certain users. Maybe it should be visible to more users?
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 19:09:24 UTC, bauss wrote: ... It's no rocket science, so it really doesn't do much in preventing I think. Really it can be automated like: 1. Copy the code 2. Go to run.dlang.io 3. Paste the code 4. Compile it 5. Wait for the output 6. Copy the output 7. Paste the output into the input field 8. Submit ... Or since the snippets are simple and some resembling C, the Bot could run itself or even in JavaScript parsing the body of the function and taking care of the return, with in the most case are int or float:var v = "int v(){ return 26 % 3 ? 13 / 3 : 42 % 5;}"; // Original Snippetvar types = ["int", "float"]; // Type of return var s = v.split(" "); var t = s[0].toLowerCase(); s.splice(0,1); if(types.indexOf(t)>-1){ t = t[0].charAt(0).toUpperCase() + t.slice(1); }document.writeln(eval("parse"+t+"((function " + s.join(' ') + ")())" ));This an example and will print 4 which is the result expected by the Captcha. https://js.do/code/241565 S.G
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 19:09:24 UTC, bauss wrote: And on top of that maybe a flag system. This exists, but is only visible to certain users.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 19:09:24 UTC, bauss wrote: But what is there to stop a spammer from doing the same? Spammers are not going to exert that much effort in order to be able to spam 1 website, so that the moderators then change their algorithm and block them again. This is the key. Spammers win by targeting classes of websites running the same engine, or using generic bots that detect arbitrary forms, or employing humans to do it for them. To defeat them, you must pose a challenge specific to your website, so that people who are not interested in your website's topic will have difficulty solving, but not the other way around. I would suggest some real captcha software that are used by the majority of sites. No, those work MUCH worse than the above.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 18:56:28 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 17:19:41 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: I did by head. But how a newbie would suppose to do that? For that challenge, you only non-obvious thing need to know is the syntax for the modulus and ternary operators, which are present in many programming languages. You can do tthe calculation with a regular desktop calculator. If that is too much, you can run the code on run.dlang.io. In this case, you only need to know how tocall a function and print its result. If that is also too much, you can ask for help in the #d IRC channel. The software suggests the above two options. In my opinion, it is a reasonable compromise, but I'm open to suggestions. (Note that at least once, a spammer managed to get through the CAPTCHA precisely by simply asking on #d, with a good samaritan providing the answer without inquiring further.) And by the way, after you do once why need to do every time? It is needed to prevent flooding. However, successfully solving the CAPTCHA a number of times across a period of time while logged in will whitelist your account. But what is there to stop a spammer from doing the same? I mean it's fairly easy to grab the captcha code and run it through a D compiler and then post the result automatically. It's no rocket science, so it really doesn't do much in preventing I think. Really it can be automated like: 1. Copy the code 2. Go to run.dlang.io 3. Paste the code 4. Compile it 5. Wait for the output 6. Copy the output 7. Paste the output into the input field 8. Submit It would take anyone familiar with basic http macros less than 10 minutes to automate that process, even less using a programming language if it's mass automation. The forums for D might just not be popular enough for any "bots" to bother I guess? I would suggest some real captcha software that are used by the majority of sites. And on top of that maybe a flag system. People being able to flag posts and if a specific post is flagged by enough people then it'll be "hidden" until moderation takes action by either making it "visible" again due to invalid flagging or deleting it because it was a valid flag. This can help not only against spammers, bots etc. but also when there are trolls making troll posts etc.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 17:19:41 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: I did by head. But how a newbie would suppose to do that? For that challenge, you only non-obvious thing need to know is the syntax for the modulus and ternary operators, which are present in many programming languages. You can do tthe calculation with a regular desktop calculator. If that is too much, you can run the code on run.dlang.io. In this case, you only need to know how tocall a function and print its result. If that is also too much, you can ask for help in the #d IRC channel. The software suggests the above two options. In my opinion, it is a reasonable compromise, but I'm open to suggestions. (Note that at least once, a spammer managed to get through the CAPTCHA precisely by simply asking on #d, with a good samaritan providing the answer without inquiring further.) And by the way, after you do once why need to do every time? It is needed to prevent flooding. However, successfully solving the CAPTCHA a number of times across a period of time while logged in will whitelist your account.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 17:13:18 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:48:35 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to us: If you have a better idea of a CAPTCHA that would be easy for D programmers but hard for spammers, please submit a pull request: https://github.com/CyberShadow/dcaptcha First I didn't want to sound harsh, and by the way I sent the message without complete it. I did by head. But how a newbie would suppose to do that? You may say to open the compiler and try it or go with the online version, but it isn't too much? And by the way, after you do once why need to do every time? S.G.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 14:58:58 UTC, aberba wrote: I'm just seeing a ..."Your message has been saved, and will be posted after being **approved** by a moderator". This doesn't make sense. Your post was flagged by the spam filter. It was a false positive, which sometimes occurs with very short posts, as was yours. It was approved a few minutes after it was submitted. 1. what criteria decides if my comment deserves approval or not? Your post is not spam, an attack on other forum members, or egregiously inflammatory / off-topic. 2. Is there a full-time moderator available to ensure there no bureaucracy/delay? There are several persons who receive moderation notices and can act on them. I generally receive email throughout the day, so you could at least count me as a full-time moderator. 3. Is it not a much more better approach to delete when its reported as inappropriate by the public? No. We did this until this year. This resulted in: - Lots of spam (despite the spam filter and CAPTCHA). Web forums attract a LOT of spambots (and humans paid to post spam). - Spam in mailing list users' inboxes, even after a moderator deleted it off the forum, since you can't unsend an email. The new method catches a lot of spam that would otherwise get through. You don't see it, but the moderators do.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:48:35 UTC, SashaGreat wrote: PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to us: If you have a better idea of a CAPTCHA that would be easy for D programmers but hard for spammers, please submit a pull request: https://github.com/CyberShadow/dcaptcha
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 14:58:58 UTC, aberba wrote: I'm just seeing a ..."Your message has been saved, and will be posted after being **approved** by a moderator". This doesn't make sense. ... This happens only for new topic? S.G.
Re: Then new forum moderation
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 16:45:15 UTC, SashaGreat wrote:
On Saturday, 22 September 2018 at 14:58:58 UTC, aberba wrote:
I'm just seeing a ..."Your message has been saved, and will be
posted after being **approved** by a moderator". This doesn't
make sense.
...
This happens only for new topic?
S.G.
I'll not create a topic to check this behavior, but this message
doesn't show up when replying inside a topic.
PS: By the way the CAPTCHA is awful, look what they throw to us:
int v()
{
return 26 % 3
? 13 / 3
: 42 % 5;
}
I mean
S.G.
