Re: D web site facelift
"Mike Parker" wrote in message news:i0ohtk$19a...@digitalmars.com... > Walter Bright wrote: >> Nick Sabalausky wrote: >>> "Walter Bright" wrote in message >>> news:i0nula$bk...@digitalmars.com... Nick Sabalausky wrote: > I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that > other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot > someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up > for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with > Google's crap.) I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a universal translator. >>> >>> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of >>> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it >>> into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS >>> bloat that not everyone's going to need. >> >> I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not have >> to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, nobody ever >> complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue? > > People don't need plugins to translate a page. All they need do is > navigate to translate.google.com, enter the URL in a box, select a > language, and click a button. My logs show that visitors to my blogs > (including The One With D) do that frequently without any prompting from > me. > The browser plugins are generally a one-click way to send the url directly either google translate or babelfish. I don't think there's a way you could tell from your logs whether they're doing that manually or if a plugin is doing it for them.
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote: Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Walter Bright" wrote in message news:i0nula$bk...@digitalmars.com... Nick Sabalausky wrote: I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.) I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a universal translator. There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat that not everyone's going to need. I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue? People don't need plugins to translate a page. All they need do is navigate to translate.google.com, enter the URL in a box, select a language, and click a button. My logs show that visitors to my blogs (including The One With D) do that frequently without any prompting from me. Anyway, if you're going to keep the box it might be a good idea to relocate it. I suggest the bottom of the menu. That way it won't interfere with any text when it expands. Either that, or give it a div with a fixed height large enough to hold it when it's expanded.
Re: D web site facelift
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:55:33 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: > David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of > the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. > This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel. > > Comments welcome. > > Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the > organization may change. I like it. But the translate widget is a bit annoying because it's quite dominant. Like a coke can in a zen garden. Can we access those functions (add to wiki, translate page) with two smallish icons? (with some hover text). The translation icon could even be removed when English is no the default language.
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote: > Nick Sabalausky wrote: >> "Walter Bright" wrote in message >> news:i0nula$bk...@digitalmars.com... >>> Nick Sabalausky wrote: I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.) >>> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea >>> of a universal translator. >> >> There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of >> *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded >> it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary >> JS bloat that not everyone's going to need. > > I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not > have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, > nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue? This is the first time I've seen a web site with this google translate bar on top. For example, the old (current) digitalmars site doesn't have it. Personally, that's why I never complained before: the issue wasn't there before... Jerome -- mailto:jeber...@free.fr http://jeberger.free.fr Jabber: jeber...@jabber.fr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: D web site facelift
On Jul 4, 10 04:57, Walter Bright wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it! Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code all on one line. Bah :-( How about nesting them the other way around? ...? I tried that, too. It recognizes the newlines, and then translates the code. Back to square 1. You could use to suppress translation. It's documented in http://translate.google.com/support/.
Re: D web site facelift
Michel Fortin wrote: The problem is that the translator strips the line breaks. But that's still an improvement over the older "translated" code, where half the identifiers are changed, braces are changed to parenthesis and some newlines are removed randomly. I suggest you add anyway. At least this way Google can improve their translator engine and it'll then work fine. Makes sense.
Re: D web site facelift
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it! Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code all on one line. Bah :-( How about nesting them the other way around? ...? I tried that, too. It recognizes the newlines, and then translates the code. Back to square 1.
Re: D web site facelift
Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Walter Bright" wrote in message news:i0nula$bk...@digitalmars.com... Nick Sabalausky wrote: I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.) I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a universal translator. There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat that not everyone's going to need. I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?
Re: D web site facelift
Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Unfortunately a lot of the translator's output ends up being quite comedical. It tends to mix up past tense, future tense, and sometimes leaves the output in English. In other cases some words tend to have multiple meaning in other languages and depend on context in order to be translated. But I think this is almost always the case with technical documentation. I know the translations leave a lot to be desired. But I've often found them good enough to figure out what is going on.
Re: D web site facelift
On 07/02/2010 06:16 PM, Adam Ruppe wrote: On 7/2/10, Walter Bright wrote: What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky about that sort of thing. I tried both Konqueror and Firefox and found the body text to look bad, worse in Firefox (probably because I set konqueror to ignore font sizes specified in websites, but the color there didn't make me happy either). On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color. I'm using Firefox without problems in reading the text (on Linux), but... well... The design certainly looks more elegant, but it feels "noisier", and it feels like it would take more time to locate the information one was looking for. This looks more like a marketing publication, and those things aren't designed to convey much information. Just the feel of information. I think there's a good reason that manuals are traditionally as simple as possible, and it's to cut down on the time it takes to recognize what you're looking for.
Re: D web site facelift
On 2010-07-03 14:06:26 -0400, Walter Bright said: Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it! Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code all on one line. Bah :-( The problem is that the translator strips the line breaks. But that's still an improvement over the older "translated" code, where half the identifiers are changed, braces are changed to parenthesis and some newlines are removed randomly. I suggest you add anyway. At least this way Google can improve their translator engine and it'll then work fine. -- Michel Fortin michel.for...@michelf.com http://michelf.com/
Re: D web site facelift
"Nick Sabalausky" wrote in message news:i0o227$gr...@digitalmars.com... > "Walter Bright" wrote in message > news:i0nula$bk...@digitalmars.com... >> Nick Sabalausky wrote: >>> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other >>> people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone >>> else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. >>> (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's >>> crap.) >> >> I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a >> universal translator. > > There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of > *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it > into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat > that not everyone's going to need. > I'll put it this way: the current trend of embedding features (like translation, or forcing videos to be viewed in a *specific* player, or "add to POS social-networking-site-of-the-month" links) put the web squarely in the exact same position that desktop applications were in back in the old DOS days when everything had to include it's own audio/video drivers and copy-paste didn't work across apps. This is just a modern parallel to that. Except the difference is, in this case, the infrastructure to do it the right way (ie, orthogonally) is already there and people are just choosing to do it the wrong way (ie, piecemeal).
Re: D web site facelift
On 2010-07-03 20.06, Walter Bright wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it! Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code all on one line. Bah :-( Sounds like you're missing the pre tags. -- Jacob Carlborg
Re: D web site facelift
"Walter Bright" wrote in message news:i0nula$bk...@digitalmars.com... > Nick Sabalausky wrote: >> I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other >> people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone >> else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I >> really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.) > > I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a > universal translator. There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat that not everyone's going to need. --- Not sent from an iPhone.
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it! Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code all on one line. Bah :-( How about nesting them the other way around? ...? Andrei
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright Wrote: > Nick Sabalausky wrote: > > I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other > > people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone > > else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I > > really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.) > > I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a > universal translator. Unfortunately a lot of the translator's output ends up being quite comedical. It tends to mix up past tense, future tense, and sometimes leaves the output in English. In other cases some words tend to have multiple meaning in other languages and depend on context in order to be translated. But I think this is almost always the case with technical documentation.
Re: D web site facelift
Nick Sabalausky wrote: I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.) I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a universal translator.
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it! Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code all on one line. Bah :-(
Re: D web site facelift
Vladimir Panteleev wrote: > On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 12:33:10 +0300, Jérôme M. Berger > wrote: > >>> Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the >>> citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all >>> screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller - >>> you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?). >>> >> The problem is that font sizes are a personal preference. The main >> text of the page should be left at the default in order to pick the >> size from the user settings. > > Uhm, maybe my experience in web applications hasn't taught me much, but > AFAIK that's not how browsers work. Instead of having a "default" font > value, browsers allow scaling all fonts (or, alternatively, all content > including images and plugins) by a user-set coefficient. I suppose you > could edit the default browser stylesheet to set a "default" font size, > but that would cause inconsistent behavior at best (and will probably > break the layout on some websites as well). > Actually, browsers do both. For example in Firefox, you can go to Edit->Preferences->Content on Linux (or Tools->Preferences->Contents on Windows) and you have a pair of fields called "Default Font" and "Default Font Size" which allow setting a default font. Browsers have had this feature since I started using the web in 96. Since a lot of web sites force their own fonts, browsers have added more recently the ability to zoom on a page (and for some browsers, you can even remember the zoom level on a page-by-page basis). But this zoom function is mostly a hack to work around poorly designed web sites. Jerome -- mailto:jeber...@free.fr http://jeberger.free.fr Jabber: jeber...@jabber.fr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: D web site facelift
Michel Fortin wrote: On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!
Re: D web site facelift
On 7/3/2010 5:48 AM, JimBob wrote: It's a bit bland, lacking in contrast between the colors. Makes me think of the colors of desert camoflage. What if the gray was changed to black? This would also help the menu contrast. I feel like the orange/red blended with gray looks a little muddy.
Re: D web site facelift
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 12:33:10 +0300, Jérôme M. Berger wrote: Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller - you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?). The problem is that font sizes are a personal preference. The main text of the page should be left at the default in order to pick the size from the user settings. Uhm, maybe my experience in web applications hasn't taught me much, but AFAIK that's not how browsers work. Instead of having a "default" font value, browsers allow scaling all fonts (or, alternatively, all content including images and plugins) by a user-set coefficient. I suppose you could edit the default browser stylesheet to set a "default" font size, but that would cause inconsistent behavior at best (and will probably break the layout on some websites as well). -- Best regards, Vladimirmailto:vladi...@thecybershadow.net
Re: D web site facelift
Looks great in Safari. I'm not sure what people mean about small fonts, unless you've already fixed it. The font size is slightly larger than average on my laptop, which I actually like. My only suggestion is that you might want to play with the brightness of the text in the sidebar. The contrast is possibly a tad low, though I understand that the point was to draw attention to the actual content.
Re: D web site facelift
On 2010-07-02 22:29:04 -0400, Michel Fortin said: http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-3.png (Note: the last one is quite funny if you can read French, but perhaps also if you can't.) On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a element. So I would suggest the website uses ... for its code blocks, and ... for keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make the translation useful. -- Michel Fortin michel.for...@michelf.com http://michelf.com/
Re: D web site facelift
On 03.07.2010 02:55, Walter Bright wrote: David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel. Comments welcome. Looks ok to me. Not too keen on the pink background, and the new code font is harder to read than the old one. And I agree with what others have said about the low contrast in the sidebar menu. Other than that, it's nicer looking than the old site. I'm using a laptop running Windows 7 and FF 3.6.
Re: D web site facelift
Walter Bright Wrote: > David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the > D > web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't > about > the content, just the look/style/feel. > > Comments welcome. > > Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the > organization may change. I'm not a fan of those colors. They look very "washed out" to me. It might be a good idea to integrate search and display the results inside the website itself instead of redirecting to a Google page. Btw., why not post this over at Reddit or someplace to get more user input? I'm sure there's plenty of web designers over there that could give some good advice.
Re: D web site facelift
"Walter Bright" wrote in message news:i0m1qa$2va...@digitalmars.com... > David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of > the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This > isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel. > > Comments welcome. > > Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the > organization may change. It's a bit bland, lacking in contrast between the colors. Makes me think of the colors of desert camoflage. Look at these http://www.slate.com/id/2258128/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andean_Condor http://docs.python.org/py3k/ Then look at http://www.d-programming-language.org/ Maybe you can see what I mean. Anything that has a lots of text needs more contrast between text and background. And generally you find most profesional sites have 2 or 3 *different* colors, and then maybe a few more shades of those. Not just 3 shades of the same color.
Re: D web site facelift
Vladimir Panteleev wrote: > On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 03:55:33 +0300, Walter Bright > wrote: > >> David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look >> of the D web site. A preview of it is up on >> d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the >> look/style/feel. > > Because no one thought to do this yet: > > http://browsershots.org/http://www.d-programming-language.org/ > > Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the > citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all > screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller - > you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?). > The problem is that font sizes are a personal preference. The main text of the page should be left at the default in order to pick the size from the user settings. > Also, please do not add JavaScript page elements that change the page > layout when loaded. When the Google Translate and "reddit this" buttons > finish loading, they expand the size of their container, which > shifts/rewraps the page on the text - which is annoying if I already > started reading it. (At the very least, fix the size of the floating > container box, so its size stays constant.) > +1 and remove the google translate bar which appears at the top of the page if your browser doesn't use english as the default language. Other than that, this is a huuge improvement on the current web site. It looks a lot more serious and professional. Jerome -- mailto:jeber...@free.fr http://jeberger.free.fr Jabber: jeber...@jabber.fr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: D web site facelift
On 03/07/2010 02:55, Walter Bright wrote: David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel. Comments welcome. Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the organization may change. Excellent L&F. Thanks David. - Remove the funny D(uff) man with a profession D Logo. - The Library reference should support the same L&F bjoern
Re: D web site facelift
On 03.07.2010 02:55, Walter Bright wrote: > David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of > the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. > This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel. > > Comments welcome. > > Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the > organization may change. I think the new page looks great. Font sizes are fine for me, definitely not to small. A few things to look at, though: -The favicon: Doesn't fit to the new style of the site -The "Add to or comment on this page on the wiki" box: It sometimes hides text of the page, i.e on "D Complex Types vs C++ std::complex" http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=xlecs1&s=6 -The "Template Comparison" layout is broken here: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=14j27p3&s=6 -- Johannes Pfau
Re: D web site facelift
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 03:55:33 +0300, Walter Bright wrote: David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel. Because no one thought to do this yet: http://browsershots.org/http://www.d-programming-language.org/ Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller - you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?). As for my opinion: I like it. I think the faded red background gives the website a nice, warm look. I agree that the contrast of the left navigation column is probably a problem for some people, though. So we can sort this problem faster by testing actual proposals: those who complained about the menu contrast, does this look better to you? http://dump.thecybershadow.net/86eda81285b762eaaa8dff9b29323b9d/brigher_nav.png (Font color changed to #ccc, hover color to #eee). Also, please do not add JavaScript page elements that change the page layout when loaded. When the Google Translate and "reddit this" buttons finish loading, they expand the size of their container, which shifts/rewraps the page on the text - which is annoying if I already started reading it. (At the very least, fix the size of the floating container box, so its size stays constant.) -- Best regards, Vladimirmailto:vladi...@thecybershadow.net
