Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 03:56:58 UTC, Clarice wrote: Don't forget moderating the newsgroups! Heck, managing DIPs and their discussions alone is worthy of gratitude. So thank you, Mike. Thanks Clarice! And Dennis!
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 03:27:14 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 14:02:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But if you do want to vote, I'd like your vote to count. I've seen no evidence that this strategy actually works. Appears totally random if a D post sticks around or not. And in a great many of these posts, people complain that they can't find the post at all which definitely doesn't help anything. I haven't seen anyone complaining they can't find the posts, just that I don't provide the links. It's three steps (two on a 4k monitor): 1. Go to https://news.ycombinator.com 2. Hit the 'End' key to get to the search box at the bottom of the page 3. Enter all or part of the blog post title in the search box After that, it's in the browser history. I have never not been able to find the post doing this. Are you sure it is worth it? Like I said above, there are other factors that determine a post's success on HN and it's always hit or miss. So far, I haven't been able to turn up any foolproof advice. But those who have attempted to crack the secret all say that if people are following direct links, it will definitely hinder the post's performance and a miss is pretty much guaranteed. The FAQ says clearly: "Can I ask people to upvote my submission? No. Users should vote for a story because they personally find it intellectually interesting, not because someone has content to promote. HN's software penalizes submissions, accounts, and sites that break this rule, so please don't." Obviously, HN isn't going to scrape referring sites to check for people explicitly asking for upvotes. We know for certain that direct links disqualify upvotes, there's evidence to suggest that they account for indirect hits to a post from direct links to other parts of the site, and I can't find any information on if any of this is factored into the ranking algorithm in another way. So yes, if people from this community want to monitor the comments on a HN site, I think it's worth it to ask them to take a couple of extra steps to do so in the interest of avoiding a negative impact on the post's ranking. If the post turns out to be a miss, it wasn't because of anything we did. If we do get lucky and hit the front page, then we've got more eyes on the post, our community members have more opportunity to share their experience, and we get (hopefully) a good PR day for D.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 23:25:00 UTC, Dennis wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 19:57:36 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: No, that's not right to say just for a hyperlink! Show some appreciation and kindness please. If we don't have anything nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all. True that! Mike has been doing many thankless jobs such as: - running the D blog - being in charge of the DIP process - maintaining BindBC C bindings - organizing DConf - managing bug bounties - helping people on the Learn forum and Discord - probably more I'm not aware of Instead of worrying about whether he should or shouldn't directly link to the HackerNews submission, let's take a moment to thank Mike for his work. Don't forget moderating the newsgroups! Heck, managing DIPs and their discussions alone is worthy of gratitude. So thank you, Mike.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 14:02:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But if you do want to vote, I'd like your vote to count. I've seen no evidence that this strategy actually works. Appears totally random if a D post sticks around or not. And in a great many of these posts, people complain that they can't find the post at all which definitely doesn't help anything. Are you sure it is worth it?
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On 6/26/20 1:02 PM, Avrina wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:35:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box): https://news.ycombinator.com/newest This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last. From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/: "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The link we have at the bottom of the post for example (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for upvoting. We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or the front page." "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last." There's some massive misunderstanding here. Do you understand the reason he did not a post a simple link?
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 19:57:36 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: No, that's not right to say just for a hyperlink! Show some appreciation and kindness please. If we don't have anything nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all. True that! Mike has been doing many thankless jobs such as: - running the D blog - being in charge of the DIP process - maintaining BindBC C bindings - organizing DConf - managing bug bounties - helping people on the Learn forum and Discord - probably more I'm not aware of Instead of worrying about whether he should or shouldn't directly link to the HackerNews submission, let's take a moment to thank Mike for his work.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 17:05:40 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 17:02:05 UTC, Avrina wrote: "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last." If the community came last for me, I wouldn't be doing the work I do. I'd be focusing on my own projects. So try again. What kind of posts are you willing to accept?
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:03:01 UTC, Avrina wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box): https://news.ycombinator.com/newest This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last. No, that's not right to say just for a hyperlink! Show some appreciation and kindness please. If we don't have anything nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 17:02:05 UTC, Avrina wrote: "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last." If the community came last for me, I wouldn't be doing the work I do. I'd be focusing on my own projects. So try again.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:35:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box): https://news.ycombinator.com/newest This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last. From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/: "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The link we have at the bottom of the post for example (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for upvoting. We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or the front page." "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last."
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable types in D without the need for compiler or language changes. The blog: https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/ Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hfkq5e/a_pattern_for_headmutable_structures_in_d/ I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box): https://news.ycombinator.com/newest What's so problematic about adding compiler support for implicit cast to head mutable for range-style structs?
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable types in D without the need for compiler or language changes. The blog: https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/ This is a brilliant potential improvement to D that's gonna make it even more usable especially for newcomers. What about adding and using headMutable in Phobos ranges?
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:04:27 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 08:36:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I wouldn't be so sure. See the "Anti-Voting Manipulation" section here: you telling us to vote in a specific way is already gaming the system. stop trying to manipulate their idiotic algorithm and just focus on delivering value to the community. I'm not telling you to vote a specific way. But if you do want to vote, I'd like your vote to count. I always type the blog post title in the search bar. Is it really that difficult?
Re: Origins of the D Programming Language now published by ACM!
On Saturday, 20 June 2020 at 22:12:21 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 6/20/2020 2:59 PM, Bill Baxter wrote: Whoa! Page 23 -- a wild Bill Baxter appears! That was unexpected. :-D --bb So many contributors - we tried hard to credit where things came from. Nice paper. It would be nice to have a graphical timeline with most important additions/dips :) Andrea
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box): https://news.ycombinator.com/newest This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last. From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/: "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The link we have at the bottom of the post for example (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for upvoting. We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or the front page."
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 08:36:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I wouldn't be so sure. See the "Anti-Voting Manipulation" section here: you telling us to vote in a specific way is already gaming the system. stop trying to manipulate their idiotic algorithm and just focus on delivering value to the community. if the HN crowd likes it, there will be plenty of organic votes from their front page and the tiny handful you get from the D forum who actually manage to find the thing will be irrelevantly small. if the HN crowd doesn't like it, our tiny handful isn't going to change anything. Either way, the value of our manipulated votes is massively smaller than the value of us being able to participate in the comments in the event people there do say something.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box): https://news.ycombinator.com/newest This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple link, community comes last.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 09:30:47 UTC, aberba wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 07:35:17 UTC, JN wrote: [...] For a while I thought it was just me but the D blog posts addressing D specific nifty tricks mostly don't interest me. Benchmarks, const, etc... :(. Probably it's just because of my area of interest or how they're articulated. But stuff about a companies using D for this and that or a community member sharing their thing comes out very interesting. I myself will be interested in doing some less technical but more practical posts. Probably comparing and contrasting packages, tools, community and stuff. I'm curious what's happening in those D meetups. Are they still happening (online)? The Munich D meetup has been quite inactive during recent times. The last event was on 16.07.2019, almost a year ago. To be honest, I think the problem is that it’s a bit difficult to find topics that we have presenters for and that enough people are interested in.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 07:35:17 UTC, JN wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. To be honest... I use D and don't really understand what the blog post is about (I don't really care much for const and such). I just glance through it and nothing catches my eye. I imagine any non-D user would completely ignore this blog post. It's a nice blog post for D users who are into this topic, but it's not something that would grab general attention. Also the premise of "D's const is hard to use, here's a way to deal with it" is not very optimistic. People here might think "wow, that's a nifty trick", but most outsiders would just think "wow that const thing is pain in the ass". Here's some examples of blog posts that got popular on reddit last week. They're short enough and can be understood without deep understanding of the language: https://jvns.ca/blog/2020/06/19/a-little-bit-of-plain-javascript-can-do-a-lot/ https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-colorblind-async-await/ For a while I thought it was just me but the D blog posts addressing D specific nifty tricks mostly don't interest me. Benchmarks, const, etc... :(. Probably it's just because of my area of interest or how they're articulated. But stuff about a companies using D for this and that or a community member sharing their thing comes out very interesting. I myself will be interested in doing some less technical but more practical posts. Probably comparing and contrasting packages, tools, community and stuff. I'm curious what's happening in those D meetups. Are they still happening (online)?
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 07:35:17 UTC, JN wrote: Here's some examples of blog posts that got popular on reddit last week. They're short enough and can be understood without deep understanding of the language: We've had long, D-specific posts be successful on reddit on more than one occasion. On HN as well. Sometimes they catch on, sometimes they don't. I always aim for an optimal window on reddit [1] and sometimes use an alternative, catchier title if it fits (I learned a valuable lesson with Liran's interview when I didn't include "the World's Fastest File System" in the reddit post -- I used it on HN and it hit big). But I've noticed these days that most of our successful blog posts have a slow burn on reddit. They stay in the low teens for a day or so and then start to tick up. More interesting to me is the upvote *rate*. Anything over 75% makes me happy. As I write, Simen's post has 14 upvotes and an 82% upvote rate. And no D bashing in the comments. In my book, that's a successful post. HN is always hit or miss. Unlike /r/programming, the HN front page changes rapidly. When a post catches on, it's always big. Otherwise it fades away quickly. From what I can tell it's mostly a matter of timing there. Also, if I don't share a post on HN, someone else inevitably will. And it's the same story: big or nothing. [1] https://dashboard.laterforreddit.com/analysis/?subreddit=%2Fr%2Fprogramming=5
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 06:52:58 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Isn't it possible to just paste to the search results? https://hn.algolia.com/?q=A+pattern+for+head+mutable Then presumably after clicking on comments you would be allowed to upvote. I wouldn't be so sure. See the "Anti-Voting Manipulation" section here: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented "One popular "trick" for obfuscating voting manipulation on Hacker News is to link to the Hacker News's /newest page of new submissions (instead of a direct link which would otherwise make voting manipulation obvious), and asking friends to upvote the submission from that page. This trick doesn't actually work." I suspect they track HTTP referrers and red flag multiple hits to the same link from the same referrer. However they do it, I would expect linking directly to search results is something they account for.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. To be honest... I use D and don't really understand what the blog post is about (I don't really care much for const and such). I just glance through it and nothing catches my eye. I imagine any non-D user would completely ignore this blog post. It's a nice blog post for D users who are into this topic, but it's not something that would grab general attention. Also the premise of "D's const is hard to use, here's a way to deal with it" is not very optimistic. People here might think "wow, that's a nifty trick", but most outsiders would just think "wow that const thing is pain in the ass". Here's some examples of blog posts that got popular on reddit last week. They're short enough and can be understood without deep understanding of the language: https://jvns.ca/blog/2020/06/19/a-little-bit-of-plain-javascript-can-do-a-lot/ https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-colorblind-async-await/
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 06:14:48 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Upvotes aren't counted when you follow a direct link. So no, I won't be posting direct links. Isn't it possible to just paste to the search results? https://hn.algolia.com/?q=A+pattern+for+head+mutable Then presumably after clicking on comments you would be allowed to upvote.
Re: From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote: This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all. Upvotes aren't counted when you follow a direct link. So no, I won't be posting direct links.
