[steering-discuss] Leave of absence July 9th - July 24rd
Hi there, I'll be on a two-weeks vacation trip starting tomorrow, so expect no, or delayed answers from me during that time. Have a good time :-) -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team
Le 06/07/11 11:48, Tom Davies a écrit : Everyone : To me, the point has more to do with SC communication. Once again, a topic has raised its head that I considered dealt with, and now it is back on the table. Although not a member of the SC, the question of the legality of screenshot usage and associated platforms for making them has become important enough IMO for a decision to be clearly stated by the SC, so I am submitting this question as a topic for discussion to you all. If there is already a decision somewhere in the archives, or on the wiki, could someone from the SC please point us to it ? If not, please consider this question for discussion as quickly as possible and issue a statement. Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team
Hi :) It is a complex area of Law in most countries. It might be even more than 1 area since we might be dealing with intellectual property rights, other copyright issues, patents contracts. We can easily avoid the whole legal mess by avoiding Windows and Apple screen-shots. We can just use screen-shots from gnulinux distros as the documentation team was happily doing up until Jean popped off on holiday. There are sometimes slight differences but the documentation team has been able to work-around these either through text or by editing the screen-shots a bit. Most companies that have to worry about this sort of thing employ a legal department. I don't think TDF can afford to do that. I also don't think we can afford to take the word of any individuals about how seriously we need to take this sort of issue. So, i would personally recommend that we do as the documentation team agreed to do ages ago and just avoid the potential danger area completely by using screen-shots from organisations that honour copyleft agreements. However, i agree with Alex that we need some sort of statement from the SC to settle the issue at least until the BoD can make a 'permanent' ruling. Apols and regards from Tom :) From: Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Fri, 8 July, 2011 9:11:10 Subject: [steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team Le 06/07/11 11:48, Tom Davies a écrit : Everyone : To me, the point has more to do with SC communication. Once again, a topic has raised its head that I considered dealt with, and now it is back on the table. Although not a member of the SC, the question of the legality of screenshot usage and associated platforms for making them has become important enough IMO for a decision to be clearly stated by the SC, so I am submitting this question as a topic for discussion to you all. If there is already a decision somewhere in the archives, or on the wiki, could someone from the SC please point us to it ? If not, please consider this question for discussion as quickly as possible and issue a statement. Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] next SC call tomorrow
Hi, this is just a quick reminder that the next SC call is tomorrow, Saturday at 1400 UTC As main topic I'd like to work on the foundation status, so let's reserve some time for this. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team
Hi Tom, *, @Tom: thank you very much for your kind words and your moral support and practical help regarding Alfresco. However, usage of Alfresco is really a bit off-topic for bringing to the attention of the SC. Alfresco usage/non-usage is more a question of natural, Darwinian survival/non-survival, and the SC would probably not want to get involved in that :-D @Tom, *: However, the question of acceptability of Windows screenshots in LibreOffice documentation and web pages has more relevance. As Tom explains, the issue has been discussed a number of times, with various people perceiving a risk in the usage of screenshots of our product taken on a Windows OS, and with various other people dismissing any such risk as implausible. My own 2 cents on the matter would be this: I've carefully read the pages put forward as pointing-up the problem with taking screenshots under Windows, and I must admit that I don't interpret them in a way that poses any risk to LibreOffice. In the cited pages, IMHO, Microsoft is legitimately protecting itself against screenshots of its own products' splashscreens, dialog boxes and windows being hijacked to publicize other products. It is not trying to limit use of the Windows platform by third-party products, nor documentation of those products. It actually spends a lot of time and effort promoting Windows as a development platform for third-party products. And the Internet is *full* of screenshots of Open Source and closed source products taken on Windows. What's more, if it *did* take action against an OS project for simply taking screenshots of the aforesaid OS product on the Windows platform, it would probably score a considerable own goal of negative publicity in public relations terms. So I think that Microsoft would be very unlikely to do so. And, even if it *did* do so, in what court/jurisdiction could it make such action stick? Under US federal law? In certain US states? I'm not convinced they'd succeed. In European courts? I'm even less convinced they'd succeed. And if they *did* succeed, what could they possibly win other than a cease-and-desist order? I really cannot imagine them winning damages as such. And, in either case, it would truly be a Pyrrhic victory in terms of image damage. So, IMHO, it's rather implausible. This is a subject that has been discussed a number of times over the past months. I think I'll ask for it to be discussed at a forthcoming SC confcall. It would be very convenient for docs team contributors to be able to take screenshots under Windows, as well as on Mac and Linux. Plus it would contribute to making it clear to users that LibreOffice is a truly multi-platform package, and not a niche product that seems to mainly target Linux. (I say this as a daily Ubuntu user and total Linux lover.) Please may I request this subject be discussed at the next SC meeting? (Or at your earliest possible convenience?) If you accept the subject for the agenda, I will be there to listen in and, if invited, debate the angles. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team
Hi :) In the MS vs TomTom case significant 'damages' were awarded to MS because TomTom were using a file-system that could be read by Windows http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._TomTom http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._TomTom_%282008,_USA%29 TomTom 'should' have been paying MS for the privilege of selling a product that worked on MS systems. The issue about Alfresco is a side-issue. It's about trying to disrupt work-flow and doing so 'behind the back' of the established team-leader. While David Jean have spent months setting up good work-flow with lots of discussion in the team Gary just suddenly decided to throw that out and tell new people to use his personal inadequate systems. The team seems to be re-asserting itself now at last. The legal issue about screen-shots is more important. Should we risk using stuff that some people that have legal experience or knowledge tell us is risky or should we stick to using safer screen-shots that look almost identical anyway? I realise that almost is the key-word there but since everyone uses different themes and skins it's impossible to make it all identical for everyone. Regards from Tom :) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team
On 8 Jul 2011, at 13:09, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Except screen-shots in Windows can't have any useful arrows or circles to point out the exact thing being talked about in the documentation. Only screenshots of /Microsoft/ products. They can't even be cropped to show off particular areas. Icons can't be shown /Microsoft/ icons (?) (without altering the screen-shot??) and we have to get permission to use any of the standard MS fonts. I believe that is an excessively cautious interpretation. So, the documentation's screen-shots in Windows can only be as unhelpful as the screen that made the user want to dig into documentation because they couldn't find what they were looking for. The restriction on cropping applies to screenshots of /Microsoft/ products, and even then is most likely waived by the documentation exception. Microsoft are protecting their own products from abuse here, not telling developers on their platform that they may not document their own products. I hate their EULA as much as the next guy but really, the caution on display here is excessive. S. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: screen-shots Documentation Team
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:19 AM, Simon Phipps si...@webmink.com wrote: On 8 Jul 2011, at 13:09, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Except screen-shots in Windows can't have any useful arrows or circles to point out the exact thing being talked about in the documentation. Only screenshots of /Microsoft/ products. Isn't that exactly what 'Fair Use' is all about ? Norbert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] test mail
Some of my mails never reach the list... -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 http://www.docarch.be/ Twitter: @RabelaisA11y --- Open source for accessibility: results from the AEGIS project www.aegis-project.eu -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] test mail
Hi Dave, On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 08:17:02 +1000 Dave Barton d...@tasit.net wrote: Original Message From: Sigrid Carrera sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 20:55:17 +0200 Hi Christophe, On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:35:11 +0200 Christophe Strobbe christophe.stro...@esat.kuleuven.be wrote: Some of my mails never reach the list... maybe you use the wrong email address? I think I've seen emails from you for some lists, where I'm the moderator. I let your message then through, but it can take some time... Sigrid Is there any header information added to indicate when posts have been moderated? Not that I know. I agree that this is unfortunate. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] test mail
Original Message From: Sigrid Carrera sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 01:05:49 +0200 Hi Dave, On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 08:17:02 +1000 Dave Barton d...@tasit.net wrote: Original Message From: Sigrid Carrera sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 20:55:17 +0200 Hi Christophe, On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:35:11 +0200 Christophe Strobbe christophe.stro...@esat.kuleuven.be wrote: Some of my mails never reach the list... maybe you use the wrong email address? I think I've seen emails from you for some lists, where I'm the moderator. I let your message then through, but it can take some time... Sigrid Is there any header information added to indicate when posts have been moderated? Not that I know. I agree that this is unfortunate. Sigrid Thanks Sigrid. Who should I contact, or how do I get access rights, to change this to something similar to the Delivered To: Moderator injected into the old OOo users and discuss list post headers? Dave -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
