[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Hi Immanuel The Discuss mailing list is dead. It is used to post official news items but unlike it's exciting name, there is little to no discussion in here. Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. In any case it's up to the TDF Directors to worry/answer your question :) Cheers, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/End-of-Life-support-for-MSO-2003-countdown-tp4050964p4051512.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when doing a search. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it takes some time. On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote: Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is the most frequent approach). The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and many of them are looking at migrating to free software. TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version targeted to MS Office 2003 users. The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change. It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model). On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group). We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message for this target group. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Hello Jonathan, This is the wrong list I'm afraid. But to answer your question directly: we already are using such channels. See the various lists (marketing@) for more info. best, Charles. Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when doing a search. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it takes some time. On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote: Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is the most frequent approach). The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and many of them are looking at migrating to free software. TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version targeted to MS Office 2003 users. The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change. It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model). On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group). We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message for this target group. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Re to myself: actually the mailing list you use is the right one but not its label (it's not board-discuss)... best, Charles. Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when doing a search. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it takes some time. On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote: Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is the most frequent approach). The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and many of them are looking at migrating to free software. TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version targeted to MS Office 2003 users. The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change. It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model). On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group). We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message for this target group. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss your target by choosing the wrong association. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
The latest tools allow one to search the keywords before actually using them in relation to the number of clicks as of late. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss your target by choosing the wrong association. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that translations to other languages will be done. That will help a lot. Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $ to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013. This is only the provincial public service and does not include municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000. The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some reasons why you should make the switch. Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free. But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users, either individuals or business. LibreOffice is the alternative! Cheers from Montreal Immanuel On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.comwrote: The latest tools allow one to search the keywords before actually using them in relation to the number of clicks as of late. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss your target by choosing the wrong association. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] NMake vs MinGW
Was nmake looked at as an alternative to mingw? as it is its part of visual studio and works with make files just like make does. what does mingw have that nmake doesnt? i feel switching would greatly reduce build complexity in terms of building on windows. -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On 4/22/13 6:28 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote: The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some reasons why you should make the switch. Don't worry, the mailing list is OK, although this might also be interesting for marketing people. Let's elaborate the idea, because a simple blog post is probably not enough. We should target magazines and websites covering e-government issues, because IT people might be reading these media. Unfortunately, politicians - who usually take the decisions - are not reading media but are prone to MS lobby efforts. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] NMake vs MinGW
I am adding Rainer to this as I think he has some points about mingw - Rainer opinions? If you're not interested, sorry for the cc Best, Joel On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.comwrote: Was nmake looked at as an alternative to mingw? as it is its part of visual studio and works with make files just like make does. what does mingw have that nmake doesnt? i feel switching would greatly reduce build complexity in terms of building on windows. -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- *Joel Madero* LibreOffice QA Volunteer jmadero@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] NMake vs MinGW
Joel we are really complicating things with mingw when all one would need to do is install visual studio and run nmake from its command line and you are good to go. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: I am adding Rainer to this as I think he has some points about mingw - Rainer opinions? If you're not interested, sorry for the cc Best, Joel On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: Was nmake looked at as an alternative to mingw? as it is its part of visual studio and works with make files just like make does. what does mingw have that nmake doesnt? i feel switching would greatly reduce build complexity in terms of building on windows. -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- *Joel Madero* LibreOffice QA Volunteer jmadero@gmail.com -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] NMake vs MinGW
Rainer what i want to understand is why use an external build tool when there is an equivalent to make built directly into visual studio. think its time for me to fire up the win 8 box and run nmake from command line and see if that does anything or if it works. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Rainer Bielefeld libreoff...@bielefeldundbuss.de wrote: Joel Madero schrieb: I am adding Rainer to this as I think he has some points about mingw - Hi Joel, unfortunately I have no knowledge at all. The only reason for my MinGW activity was that for a long time MinGW tinderbox build much more reliably that the others so that it often was my only source for Master builds. But unfortunately the results always only were usable for some tests, but never for real use. And currently MingW builds are broken. So thinking about alternatives is appreciated. But of course, there might be some strategig thoughts I don't know? As far as I know Eilidh McAdam had some activity with MinGW, and also Michael Meeks, but that knowledge is very old (March 2012). May be you should ask them or at an ESC call concerning the current strategy. Best regards Rainer -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] NMake vs MinGW
Joel Madero schrieb: I am adding Rainer to this as I think he has some points about mingw - Hi Joel, unfortunately I have no knowledge at all. The only reason for my MinGW activity was that for a long time MinGW tinderbox build much more reliably that the others so that it often was my only source for Master builds. But unfortunately the results always only were usable for some tests, but never for real use. And currently MingW builds are broken. So thinking about alternatives is appreciated. But of course, there might be some strategig thoughts I don't know? As far as I know Eilidh McAdam had some activity with MinGW, and also Michael Meeks, but that knowledge is very old (March 2012). May be you should ask them or at an ESC call concerning the current strategy. Best regards Rainer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: NMake vs MinGW
Jonathan Aquilina wrote Joel we are really complicating things with mingw when all one would need to do is install visual studio and run nmake from its command line and you are good to go. Because MinGW is an Open Source compiler and Visual Studio is a closed source, commercial compiler which has a free limited version. Using Visual Studio is a courtesy (which could stop at any time). Using an Open Source tool to build an Open Source program makes ALL sense. (unfortunately Jan Holesovsky aka Kendy from Suse, who set up and maintains the MinGW tinderbox seems to have his hands full with other stuff) See these old topics about MinGW http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Compiling-in-Windows-td1792684.html and http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/MinGW-master-build-td3400162.html -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/NMake-vs-MinGW-tp4051639p4051704.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
