Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
Hi Zack, I have heard the call for separate lists for the last 4 years. This is not a new request. I will put forward that the success of this global community is for the exact reason of NOT doing that. But let's put that a side for a moment. Here has been my long time beef with separated discussions ... *Fragmentation* & *Redundancy* Is the needs of Mobile that much different than the needs of web? from an IxD perspective? If we are indeed about Interaction Design, doesn't it generalize across mediums more significantly than it specializes? How do we connect among different threads in such a way that doesn't re-burden the site, and how does that just not lead to a single list again? It all sounds nice to say separate lists, but when you start modeling it across different user types, it really begins to fail for more people than the current model does with specific caveats. The current web site + RSS model is not fully baked yet. There is a bigger vision that is being explored and will need time, resources (human & machine) & money to make happen. If people want to ONLY follow mobile, then heck, do that. Content can be tagged "mobile" and anyone who only wants to follow mobile can create an RSS feed that follows only that tag. For the person who wants everything, it is completely unaffected. The issue is how does the tagging occur. I would put out there that our primary tags are fairly predictable and there is auto-tagging technology out there that could easily with pretty good success tag our content on the list pretty well. Personally, I find the multi/single list aspect of our problems to be the least significant. To me, how do we have a system that encodes knowledge as separate from the conversation? How do we get to the nuggets without the "me toos" and the "flame bait" that gets in the way. If we did this, search and auto-tagging would be that much more valuable. I'm all for the conversation. it is an important if not vital part of the community, but only in real time. It is valueless after that moment of being spoken and heard. It's value is one of bridging and relating, but not part of the need of knowledge explicitly. When it comes to separate lists, the other major need is multi-lingual and multi-local. How do we learn from each other (1 of the most valuable parts of this list/community) if we are holding separate conversations, and these conversations are in different languages? Is there a need for us to have a code of moderation where people on different local/lingual lists are responsible for feeding back to global and taking from global? How does global feed the other direction more actively? I would say that there are some easy separations: Announcements (we have that already) Jobs (we probably should do this, but I have to say that a large number of people find value in these job postings, and said they wouldn't subscribe to a separate list for them though.) Things that are more content/practice/discipline related I have a harder time with personally. For the time being though, I suggest that anyone who feels that things should change and they have a strong vision of what they want to happen should create 5-10 wireframes that communicate their vision (modeling is key) and 5 slide deck explaining why their idea is better than what we got and won't create more problems and has a plan for how to achieve that vision. Feedback is great ... initiative gets things done. -- dave -- David Malouf http://synapticburn.com/ http://ixda.org/ http://motorola.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
At the November IxDA Board Retreat, we discussed extensively the pros and cons of splitting up the mailing list into multiple lists. Ultimately, we decided not to, although obviously the topic is open to revisiting. Why did we decide to retain the one list (despite the increased level of traffic, which we are all painfully aware of)? 1. As has been been pointed out, there are multiple ways to follow the mailing list, and now, thanks to Jeff Howard, even one more way. 2. Community would be lost if we started breaking up the list into sub- groups (web, consumer electronics, etc.). We felt that the various mediums had a lot in common and could share between them. 3. We did not want to turn the main mailing list into a dumping ground of crap topics. 4. We wanted to retain some measure of serendipity to the list. Splitting the list might mean you never see an interesting post on another list you might care about (but didn't know you would care about). 5. Threads evolve. What can start as something interesting to only a small group of people can organically widen and be useful to lots of people. We did toy with the idea of a paid-membership-only mailing list, but we also felt that our inclusiveness and low-barrier to entry was a better model for the organization. Anyway, still open for debate, but that was our reasoning (as I recall it). Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
Thanks. While I appreciate everyone's preferred method to experience this list, the fact remains that it may not be working for all types of readers. Just because some prefer not to read everything, while others prefer to monitor by RSS, while others like setting up rules doesn't change the fact that the list could be more focused. As I asked before, being a UXD list and with all the talk about creating experiences for all types of users, has anyone thought about how a mailing list falls into UXD? I do see that there are multiple ways to read and search content which is great, but I still believe that multiple lists could open the IxDA experience to an even wider audience and could shield against ghettoization. I mean, isn't IxDA building a brand here as well? Aren't more eyes a good thing? Zack Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
I like the single mailing list and second the Gmail approach, it is all in one fun. You can easily browse the threads and skip entire conversations. There seem to be about 5-15 active threads a day, which is a number easily browsed and not in any way overwhelming. Navid ps: Keep IXDA separate from your regular inbox. Here is my Gmail filter Matches: IXDA Do this: Skip Inbox, Apply label "IxDA" On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Alexander Livingstone < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On gmail however, the list is a joy. The way it deals with threading > is a godsend and it is so much easier to ignore what I'm not > interested in, as it is only listed once. If something you've ignored > is popular, it is easy to dip in and see if the thread has taken an > unexpected turn that I want to read. > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
>From: David Malouf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Alex, the gmail solution is so 2006. >In 2007 the hip people are doing RSS. It's now 2008. We've all gone retro, back to rnews and plain text e-mail. You've gotta keep up, man! -- Jim Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
Reminds me of the saying that the reason time exists is so everything doesn't happen all at once. As for me there's no discussion here that is so urgent that I need to respond immediately. I second proposing several types of lists, ixda-jobs, ixda-needhelpnow, etc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27697 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
Alex, the gmail solution is so 2006. In 2007 the hip people are doing RSS. Just let it fill your Google Reader, and then click to the web site to do replies. you only need to go to Gmail to start new threads. Further advantages: Keeps list activity separate from other probably higher priority messaging. Easy to share (on Google Reader) by starring and sharing. Taggable Can ignore much easier. As an interaction model it seems to work really well for me anyway. I highly recommend trying it. oh! you can subscribe to full posts or just to summaries (your choice). You can also subscribe to people, tags, topics, etc. (separately). I also must add that the list is only unmanageable if you actually attempt to read everything. I think of the list like twitter (but better content). I can go long stretches without knowing what is going on. I know it is there when I have time and interest, and I just skim titles/subject lines for tags like Events & Announcements to make sure I don't miss the important stuff. But most of the list is really for community building and entertainment purposes (some learning, but in an entertaining way), so "management" is not really an issue the way I see it. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27697 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
One way to manage this list in Outlook is to create a simple rule that catches all the IxDA mail and throws it in a folder. This keeps it separate from everything else and it's fairly easy to search against once you've indexed it. I keep a local archive about the last 5000 posts on my machine and it's a handy resource when I'm disconnected or want to catch up on activity on the list. Chris Bernard Microsoft User Experience Evangelist [EMAIL PROTECTED] 630.530.4208 Office 312.925.4095 Mobile Blog: www.designthinkingdigest.com Design: www.microsoft.com/design Tools: www.microsoft.com/expression Community: http://www.visitmix.com "The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed." William Gibson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Livingstone Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:01 AM To: Zack Frazier Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive? > That being said, this list has become unmanageable. Zack, In the process of getting involved in the list, I've subscribed twice. The first one was at work. Here, I completely agree with you. I cannot manage the list on my work account at all. It is simply too much - too many emails flying in, no easy way of organising them: no easy way in Outlook, that is. On gmail however, the list is a joy. The way it deals with threading is a godsend and it is so much easier to ignore what I'm not interested in, as it is only listed once. If something you've ignored is popular, it is easy to dip in and see if the thread has taken an unexpected turn that I want to read. The only reason I keep my work account subscribed is to guage the volume of posts during the day. Give gmail a go! > I mean there were 15 replies to the Nannybot > etiquette post ... we get that you're all clever and witty. Alright, I apologise. The cake-over-IP post was indefensibly peurile! Alex. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
> That being said, this list has become unmanageable. Zack, In the process of getting involved in the list, I've subscribed twice. The first one was at work. Here, I completely agree with you. I cannot manage the list on my work account at all. It is simply too much - too many emails flying in, no easy way of organising them: no easy way in Outlook, that is. On gmail however, the list is a joy. The way it deals with threading is a godsend and it is so much easier to ignore what I'm not interested in, as it is only listed once. If something you've ignored is popular, it is easy to dip in and see if the thread has taken an unexpected turn that I want to read. The only reason I keep my work account subscribed is to guage the volume of posts during the day. Give gmail a go! > I mean there were 15 replies to the Nannybot > etiquette post ... we get that you're all clever and witty. Alright, I apologise. The cake-over-IP post was indefensibly peurile! Alex. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
For what it's worth, I enjoy seeing the job postings, announcements and even the occasional feel-good off-topic question. The list has garnered a huge gathering of talent and momentum - a threaded mailing list view might be your answer, but I vote to keep it as is (and growing). I've learned so much here, and it seems to be a never ending trove of great people and information in one big, wonderful soup-of-the day. Static is always the price to pay for popularity. Regarding recruiters: this career is exploding - when the recruiters stop knocking and looking for people, worry! We're in a recession and the jobs still abound - smile, it's a good time for us! I'm enjoying the growth and opportunities of this creative and interesting career path. Apologies if this offends - just wanted to voice a positive opinion of thanks and great respect to the people here. -Dan On Mar 27, 2008, at 8:15 AM, Zack Frazier wrote: > Here goes ... > > First, I admit that I am not an IA but rather a developer who believes > in creating a synergy with IAs and designers to help solve our common > problems. > > That being said, this list has become unmanageable. > > There are great discussions happening here but it is becoming > increasingly hard to find them amongst the job postings, event > announcements, feel-good off-topic questions, and especially the > numerous snarky replies. I mean there were 15 replies to the Nannybot > etiquette post ... we get that you're all clever and witty. > > I understand this is a balancing act. Some people want to lurk and > some want this to be their second home. Ultimately, what should a non- > IA like me get from this list? > > Has the possibility of breaking into multiple lists been discussed? I > fear that a monolithic list could further silo this community even > while members are saying traditional walls in the industry need to go > away. > > Have any list personas been created? > > Zack Frazier > -- > Senior Developer > VSA Partners, Inc. > 1347 South State Street > Chicago, Illinois 60605 > http://www.vsapartners.com > > > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] At what point does a mailing list become counter-productive?
Here goes ... First, I admit that I am not an IA but rather a developer who believes in creating a synergy with IAs and designers to help solve our common problems. That being said, this list has become unmanageable. There are great discussions happening here but it is becoming increasingly hard to find them amongst the job postings, event announcements, feel-good off-topic questions, and especially the numerous snarky replies. I mean there were 15 replies to the Nannybot etiquette post ... we get that you're all clever and witty. I understand this is a balancing act. Some people want to lurk and some want this to be their second home. Ultimately, what should a non- IA like me get from this list? Has the possibility of breaking into multiple lists been discussed? I fear that a monolithic list could further silo this community even while members are saying traditional walls in the industry need to go away. Have any list personas been created? Zack Frazier -- Senior Developer VSA Partners, Inc. 1347 South State Street Chicago, Illinois 60605 http://www.vsapartners.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
