Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
A lot of thoughts above are valid, however, I have seen forms mimic the exact same style as the original paper form. Where I've seen this done well was through government websites where they took the original paper form and created a PDF version that was dynamic. You can just fill in the entries straight from the PDF and submit it. I've seen this with court forms and DMV forms, and I think they work out well. The good thing about the court form is that you can just print it and the form would be viewed just as you would filling it out by hand or type writer. Again, you have to take into account what sort of form are we transferring here. I never want to absolutely say no you shouldn't do something, because each case is different and you want to look at what would work best for your audience. The web is definitely more dynamic, javascript is beautiful when it comes to adding validation, tool tips, and just general hints on how to fill out the form. The web also allows for great styling on forms (see: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/04/17/web-form-design-modern-solutions-and-creative-ideas/). Again, it all depends on what the form is, who your audience is, where the results end up, and what you want to achieve. After those questions are answered, then you decide on a strategy. :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31603 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
Jared, I can see your point and agree with your approach, but I've worked with clients who seriously thought the web should copy the print experience. I've also worked with people who thought the information buckets behind the scenes needed to be identical to the interface; some people just get stuck in one taxonomy and have trouble breaking out of it. I suspect something of that nature is driving Jessica's question. In that case, she needs an answer that addresses the issue more directly, so the questioner feels respected. The proper response to such people is that the web is a three-dimensional space that only appears to be two-dimensional because it's on a flat screen; print is by definition two-dimensional. Years of usability testing have demonstrated that the same rules that apply to print do not apply across the board to the web. Attention spans online and in print vary considerably, and if you design for print (apart from the exceptions Paul mentioned earlier), you are seriously handicapping your site. Considering your audience and the best UX for their needs is definitely where you should start. bests, Alex O'Neal -- The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The next best time is now. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
the web is a three-dimensional space Is it? I can think of two interpretations of that idea: - The third dimension is time. - The third dimension is folded up in hidden fields and information widgets (like the extended dimensions of string theory :), in which case there's still also time, so I'd call it multi-dimensional. This has been your 1:18 moment of geekery. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
On Jul 27, 2008, at 1:34 AM, Jessica Enders wrote: As a matter of best practice, should forms on the web be designed to look like their paper equivalents? Why/why not? My take is simple: The question is irrelevant. In fact, you could as a similar question that would be equally irrelevant: Should forms on the web be design to look like other forms on the web? The real question is Should each form on the web be design to best support the user's experience? The answer would, of course, be Yes. And the next question is the one that's important in your case: How should you best support the user's experience? That's where I'd start. Hope that helps, Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
As a matter of best practice, should forms on the web be designed to look like their paper equivalents? Why/why not? Do you know who designs the forms in the real world for most things? Information Designers? Interaction Designers? IAs? *NO!* Bureaucrats! These people have no idea how to actually design information for consumption and interaction. Go to this image: http://www.donateyourplane.com/IRS8283A.jpg Now image following - exactly - the information design and layout of this form. First - it would almost certainly have to be done in flash because of the complexity, density, and format of the information; Second, image what the eye-tracking tests for this might look like? Rorschach ink blots is the most likely candidate for what eye-tracking would reveal. There are no consistent scan lines. There is no clear path to completion. The eyes have difficulty separating the content from the actionable fields. The best place to start is read this book review on BA I wrote about LukeW's Web Form Design, here: *http://tinyurl.com/6ryep9 *Then think about buying the book - every chapter ends with a list of best practices for web form design. I very much doubt there is an equivalent book for paper form design. The medium is the message :-)* Those are my thoughts. *-- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] twitter: https://twitter.com/semanticwill - On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Jessica Enders [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I've been involved in a few debates about this question lately and would like to write an article summarizing the different positions. It would be great if you could spend a few minutes emailing me or posting your personal position on the following query: As a matter of best practice, should forms on the web be designed to look like their paper equivalents? Why/why not? I recognise that this is a fairly open question but there are lots of different ways that one could come at this issue and I'm keen to hear about them all! Will send around a link to the article when done, for future reference. Thanks in anticipation, Jessica Enders Principal Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
Will, : Bureaucrats! These people have no idea how to actually design information for consumption and interaction. Go to this image: http://www.donateyourplane.com/IRS8283A.jpg The example you cite is, as you point out, a BAD paper form. Actually, to be even more specific, this is a bad .jpg of a badly-scanned, badly-designed paper form. It seems to me a bad design is going to be a bad design and therefore I agree that replicating as such on the web isn't going to do much good. I'm rushing off to a week away with no email access so I can't reply fully, but perhaps it would be more helpful to think of a well-designed paper form? best, Caroline Jarrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 01525 370379 international: +44 152 537 0379 mobile: 07990 570647 Effortmark Ltd Usability - Forms - Content We have moved. New address: 16 Heath Road Leighton Buzzard LU7 3AB Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
In short, I'd say No, they shouldn't. The biggest reason is that paper and computer screens imply different restrictions and affordances in the kinds of information you can enter, and how you enter them. For example, if you design a paper form that's 1.2 pages long, you're going to try to reshuffle the layout to get it down to 1 page, because a one page form (might) seem easier to fill out, and would cost less to print (1-sided vs 2-sided or 2 pages). You can also do things in a web form that you can't do on paper - hide lengthy instructions, consolidate lists of items into dynamic data rows that appear as you need them. Instead of providing 5 rows of dependents on a tax form, for instance, a web form might likely give me 3 rows and a button to add another dependent. Federal US tax forms seem to be somewhat of an exception to the above rules, but only because people may need the visual reminder of what they're filling out. Turbotax, I believe, fills out the same information that the tax form does, but doesn't look like it. However, they have always provided you a link to view the actual form with your data on it, in case you want to make sure you're filling it out right. It's 10:30 on the beach, so the above probably rambles more than it needs to, but hopefully it answers your question... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31603 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
For me the question is just way too open. While I agree with Will in spirit, I can see how bringing the visual look of things that we are used to seeing in paper into the web medium, while also taking advantage of the interactive medium. My brand might be one where paper is a differentiators, and so I would want to bring that through to my interactive versions. Or my customers are used to and like the paper they have and in order to transition them from one medium to the other, the comfort of seeing something familiar could lead to better/quicker/happier cultural change. That being said, if you do not have these issues, than I can't see any reason why you would want to maintain a link to the paper world. For the vast majority of people I would imagine that paper versions of forms are not a positive experience and thus connecting yourself to them even implicitly feels like a bad idea. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31603 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
To answer the original question: if the web form is designed for processing a paper form (data processing), it should follow the general information flow of the paper form for easy reference. However, since web medium is more dynamic than paper, form field dependencies can be implemented via various progressive disclosure methods described in the [excellent] book by Luke. Thus the form can be simplified. Will Evans wrote: The best place to start is read this book review on BA I wrote about LukeW's Web Form Design, here: *http://tinyurl.com/6ryep9 To answer a question by Praveen Kumar Vermahttp://www.boxesandarrows.com/person/1392-praveenkvma to Will's review: The client suggested using two columns of fields to utilize the space. As a good designer I protested but wanted to look for research on two columns approach. Sadly the book does not answer my question. May be, the question is weird but I am in this situation. The book does answer this question (if not explicitly the way Praveen phrased it): group related fields horizontally to utilize the space effectively. For instance: [Prefix] [First Name] [MI] [Last Name] [Suffix]. See Figure 4.3 on page 58. -- Oleh Kovalchuke Interaction Design is design of time http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
Incidentally horizontal grouping of related fields should further reduce scanning time of input fields with top aligned labels (compare to left or right aligned labels). Oleh On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Oleh Kovalchuke [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: To answer the original question: if the web form is designed for processing a paper form (data processing), it should follow the general information flow of the paper form for easy reference. However, since web medium is more dynamic than paper, form field dependencies can be implemented via various progressive disclosure methods described in the [excellent] book by Luke. Thus the form can be simplified. Will Evans wrote: The best place to start is read this book review on BA I wrote about LukeW's Web Form Design, here: *http://tinyurl.com/6ryep9 To answer a question by Praveen Kumar Vermahttp://www.boxesandarrows.com/person/1392-praveenkvma to Will's review: The client suggested using two columns of fields to utilize the space. As a good designer I protested but wanted to look for research on two columns approach. Sadly the book does not answer my question. May be, the question is weird but I am in this situation. The book does answer this question (if not explicitly the way Praveen phrased it): group related fields horizontally to utilize the space effectively. For instance: [Prefix] [First Name] [MI] [Last Name] [Suffix]. See Figure 4.3 on page 58. -- Oleh Kovalchuke Interaction Design is design of time http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
I agree with both Bryan on this. In this case, I think the media is the constraint that identifies both function and form. The function is collection of information, and the form is whatever is necessary to allow that with as little pain as possible. Let's face it, people don't like to fill in forms, so the process is always going to be painful. Utilizing the strengths of an electronic medium could make filling forms easier. An existing paper form is a good place to start for identifying information, but a good design of the electronic form could make filling seem less painful through Jedi mind-tricks. Some things that I think makes forms more usable are and are things I've encountered in the past: - JMI 1 - Status of where one's at in the process, especially long, multi-page forms. Knowing where you're at in the process makes things seem more tolerable. Visual or physical status (where on a page, or how far into a big stack) allows the user to know where they're at in the process... it's a JMI because it doesn't make information collection any easier, it just provides peace of mind that the end is in sight. - JMI 2 - Break long forms into multiple pages and tie to JMT 1 -- its' the reason why TurboTax/Taxcut work so well. They're collecting the same information, using simpler words/terms in a succession of pages, making tax preparation less overwhelming. Tied to status, you know when you're getting closer to the end. - Address format, or availability of different address formats should be considered if the form may be used by visitors from other geographies - Support for multi-language, if necessary -- paper doesn't restrict how you write, just the information collected Just some thoughts... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31603 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Design of forms on web vs paper
I've been involved in a few debates about this question lately and would like to write an article summarising the different positions. It would be great if you could spend a few minutes emailing me or posting your personal position on the following query: As a matter of best practice, should forms on the web be designed to look like their paper equivalents? Why/why not? I recognise that this is a fairly open question but there are lots of different ways that one could come at this issue and I'm keen to hear about them all! Will send around a link to the article when done, for future reference. Thanks in anticipation, Jessica Enders Principal Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 [Apologies if you get this email more than once - I'm casting a wide net] Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
