Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
Hello Brian Let me answer using examples. Consider links that you may see in your gmail message (I notice you have one). They open a new tab or new window unlike gmail interface's own navigation links. There is a login session, and it so requires that the user is checking the emails and would always like to get back to the email window after navigating/ getting far to a different page. Hence it is context based and how your users, a majority of them prefer. If it is a link in a blog page, and you are using intriguing links, consider what Jhon had said. Leave the choice to the user, and as everyone will learn through experience interacting with the web, eventually users can decide how and when they want to view a link, either same page or new page. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
Not sure about making it a better place.. I try. I at least make it a bigger place :). I've had a few people email me asking for a code example so I thought I'd post the response here. If anyone is interested you can see the script in action at http://www.kimburgess.info. The JavaScript that handles the link augmentation is on line 37 of http://www.kimburgess.info/scripts/dev/kimburgess.js. It's commented but if you've got any questions don't be afraid to ask. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
On 5 Oct 2009, at 21:17, Kim Burgess wrote: The target="_blank" debate is an interesting one. Initially I stopped using it as it wasn't included in the core XHTML 1.1 (although it can be added as module). Recently I've considered the appropriateness of its use a lot more and settled on utilizing unobtrusive JavaScript (JS) to give anchors which posses a "rel" attribute with a value of "external" a behaviour which causes them to open up in a fresh window. I'll also utilize JS append a small graphic to the link that signifies it will open a new window and append "(opens in a new window)" to the title attribute to give the user some extra info in their tool-tip. [snip] I've never done a usability test where having external links open in new windows has had a positive effect (outside of small informational popups and comparisons where separate windows help.). At best it seems to have no negative effect. At worst it causes annoyance and/or confusion. I've never looked at any web site logs where switching links to/from opening in new windows has made any difference to the users length of time on site, number of conversions, etc. So - while doing this is obviously an improvement on surprising the user with a new window - does it make it better than leaving them in the same window? If not, why do we do it? Just to avoid the discussion with the client on why it's not a good idea? :-) Have other peoples experiences been different? Cheers, Adrian -- http://quietstars.com - twitter.com/adrianh - delicious.com/adrianh Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
The target="_blank" debate is an interesting one. Initially I stopped using it as it wasn't included in the core XHTML 1.1 (although it can be added as module). Recently I've considered the appropriateness of its use a lot more and settled on utilizing unobtrusive JavaScript (JS) to give anchors which posses a "rel" attribute with a value of "external" a behaviour which causes them to open up in a fresh window. I'll also utilize JS append a small graphic to the link that signifies it will open a new window and append "(opens in a new window)" to the title attribute to give the user some extra info in their tool-tip. The nice thing about this method is that if the user's browser has JS support active this additional behaviour and information will be added, and if they don't they still have a link that acts nicely and has the "rel" attribute defined in a meaningful way. By quickly glancing at a link (or hovering over it to show the tool-tip) they are alerted to the fact that it will open in a new window. It is also very easy to allow users to disable this behaviour through some form of preferences (either session or account). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 3:40 AM, Brian wrote: > I completely agree with you guys from a user end but from a marketing > and business perspective why would you drive business away from your > site? > This viewpoint is common, but it's easy to counter. Holding people captive on your site will annoy them, which is not good for marketing or business. I usually point out that if they want to get back to your site, they already have a variety of options available: they can choose to open a link in a new window/tab, bookmark your site before clicking, or trudge back through history to find you. Will Sansbury Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
P.S. I think this firefox add-on might be helping me with this problem I have with my browsing issues anyway. I think it was meant for the ADD browser like myself. http://grabjuice.com/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
I completely agree with you guys from a user end but from a marketing
and business perspective why would you drive business away from your
site? You have a link that goes to a new site, the user clicks on
that link and goes to another site, then another, and then another
possibly opening another window, then even another and before you
know it you are asking the user to use the browsers back button or
memory to navigate back you your site.
I am coming at this purely from what I have been asked to do from the
business side of things but in the end I guess I have changed the way
I browse because of this. I browse in a tab environment and like it.
I like having all external sites open in other tabs or windows. To
have a blog talking about "the 10 best examples navigation" and all
of a sudden I click on the first example and I am not on the website
anymore but on the examples website, seems like mismanagement of user
experience and I know I am not alone. I know this is a debate and it
has been debated for a long time.
Just try this, go to this page and read the article and try to
compare the examples, while reading the article at the same time:
http://www.uxbooth.com/blog/tabbed-navigation-and-what-makes-it-useful/
Now the above example should not be too hard because there are only 4
examples and it is a short blog but you get my point because it is
impossible unless you open all the examples up yourself in new
windows/tabs.
Does nobody agree with me? Am I the only person who likes to compare
and contrast examples that are fed to me like this as I read a blog.
Am I really that ADD where I need to jump back and forth between what
I am doing or does this make sense to anyone else?
Brian Durkin
# company {nickelodeon:parentsconnect.com;}
# company .job {developer:web-monkey;}
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
Some excellent write-up on the matter on 456 Berea Street' site; http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200603/the_target_attribute_and_opening_new_windows/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
I agree with John that it is up to the user to decide what the behaviour of an anchor should be. This is exactly why the target attribute has been taken out of the xhtml specs and any page including a target attribute will cause errors when validating. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
Personally, I tend to get really irritated when a site tries to force behavior on me like that. If I want to keep their page open and follow the link in a new window or tab, I'll do that. Otherwise, stop cluttering up my desktop. I generally try to avoid impressing my personal preference onto users, but this is one case where I simply cannot. That said, since it is always possible for a user to open a page in a new tab or window but not possible to suppress this behavior if they don't want it, I think avoiding "target=_blank" is the better way to go anyway. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46314 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
Just wishful thinking...wouldn't it be nice to say target="_iphone" or target="_pda" or target="_maps"? Bryan Minihan -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Robert Hoekman Jr Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:55 AM To: Brian Cc: disc...@ixda.org Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site. The usability of window management is always a concern, and until there's a "target=_tab" attribute built into HTML and into every browser, and likely even beyond that point, this will continue being a source of contention. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
> > [...] and I have learned that when you have a link that is > internal you have that link open within the same window. On the other > hand, I was taught that any link that you have that is a reference to > an external website you should have the link open in an external > window or tab if the user has that set up. This practice has been debated for years. There are pros and cons to either solution, and like every "rule", there are exceptions even if the practice works well for you. The context, as usual, matters most. The best bet is to come up with a standard for your site and then keep your eye out for exceptions. The usability of window management is always a concern, and until there's a "target=_tab" attribute built into HTML and into every browser, and likely even beyond that point, this will continue being a source of contention. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Leaving Las Vegas...I mean the website site.
So I have seen a bunch of redesigns come up recently like
http://www.uxbooth.com/ (which I love that site) and I wanted to
bring this up as something simple that just sort of caught me as
being rather strange. Maybe I am missing the boat or just not seeing
something but I have been working in web design for a little over 10
years now and I have learned that when you have a link that is
internal you have that link open within the same window. On the other
hand, I was taught that any link that you have that is a reference to
an external website you should have the link open in an external
window or tab if the user has that set up. This allows for the user
to not actually leave your site and allows for your site to remain
open in the background. It is a simple target="_blank" property in
the anchor tag that accomplishes this.
In my past experience I would hear the term from marketing people
"stickiness" and this would be something that would apply to that.
Now I don't mean to call sites out but I really see this happening
quite a bit to high profile sites now where they are not paying
attention to this "rule" anymore including this site we are on
right now.
Like I said earlier, did I miss something?
Brian Durkin
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