[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Seoul Birds of a Feather signup
Hi everyone! If you're planning on traveling to FOSS4G Seoul in September, you can now book a time and room for a BOF meeting. See http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2015_BirdsOfAFeather Hope to see everyone there, and enjoy a Korean BBQ together! :) -jeff PS. Sanghee and team are working very hard to host the community. We can thank him in payments of soju/beer there! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] overall value of market for business based on OSGEO projects?
On Jul 9, 2015 6:42 AM, Camille Acey joyous...@gmail.com wrote: Having worked on the sales side of a fairly important player in the space, I can say this is not a trivial exercise. However, if you could give a list of say the top five to ten players in the space, you might be able to pull up previous years of revenue info (because a lot of that is on record in public filings/registrations). From there, you could likely get a ballpark number. I know lots of companies are working around with slide decks that say things like Total Size of Geospatial Market with a big pie chart and a tiny FOSS slice jumping out but I feel like it's more of a marketing clip art exercise than a result of actual number crunching. That said, you might reach out to Black Duck, they do lots of surveys on general open source stuff. Andrew Ross and Eddie Pickle might also have some ideas. Camille On Jul 9, 2015 5:56 AM, Cameron Shorter cameron.shor...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Andrea, Not quite the same question, but an easier metric to measure, is the estimated cost of software to develop, using David Wheeler's method for evaluating the cost of Linux to develop http://www.dwheeler.com/sloc/redhat71-v1/redhat71sloc.html You can find OpenHub metrics for OSGeo projects referenced from: http://live.osgeo.org/en/metrics.html On 9/07/2015 3:53 pm, Andrea Giacomelli wrote: Hi Brian, and thanks for the inspirational overview. I totally agree with it. But if I go back with this to my colleague (I won't meet him at the cafe after close-of-business today because I'm travelling, but tomorrow might well be), he will claim that this is too much of a quasi-philosophical explanation. A simple way of getting the number is simply checking the revenue of the key companies involved in the business. The next quantum leap in innovation might be round the corner and completely change our paradigms for estimating the size of a market, but until this happens, if we are assigning a value to it, we are making a bet. The third level you mention is what my colleague calls ecosystem services. Interestingly, their value can be estimated as well (I have started to work a few years ago on one of these cases); but for the time being, I will stick to level 1, considering the thread open for a couple of days, should any other folk wish to drop a line. Thanks also for the good travels in Italy...in fact I am an Italian citizen and a resident, but I travel quite a lot up and down The boot, as we call it (today towards the AC/DC gig in Imola...) Best regards! Andrea Giacomelli http://www.pibinko.org 2015-07-08 21:22 GMT+02:00 Brian M Hamlin mapl...@light42.com: Hi Andrea - like so many good questions looking for a simple answer, there is no simple answer.. Let's make a thought experiment .. and divide economic acitivity into three different groups.. Each one could be measured in currency, but I wll argue that only one of them makes sense.. * in the first case, the market is like a physical market . someone has eggs to sell, or furniture, or a service like medical service.. a customer pays in currency, and all transactions are recorded (somehow).. the ecomonic value is the sum of all transactions.. * the second is a market like a legal federation of many marketplaces.. things are available from multiple sources, so prices go up and down.. the prices change for a variety of reasons. But, what if someone gives something essential, for non-market reasons.. the price may go down.. but what if a machine is invented that make one million times more of a good or service? does the price go down ? what if the machine makes something that was never available before.. is there a price ? * the third is the natural world we live in.. a unique collection of clear air, clean water, things to eat and places to live and make babies.. what is the price of clean water ? does it go up or down.. what is the price of a rhinocerous or an elephant, that is a living being not in the human market at all .. what if the actions of the market kills or poison things that are not in the market, to make room for things that are in the market.. what if software can be used to understand these relationships outside of any market ? what is the price of this software .. So, in the first and most simple case.. you could take the sum of economic activity inside the exchange of currency.. However, on a larger scale, the second and third measures are very important.. I say that the OpenSource Geospatial software worlds are very much in all of those.. so any number you count in the first one will be a poor measure of the others.. good travels in Italy Brian M Hamlin -- Brian M Hamlin OSGeo California Chapter blog.light42.com ___ Discuss mailing listDiscuss@lists.osgeo.orghttp://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss --
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] overall value of market for business based on OSGEO projects?
HI, On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Andrea Giacomelli pibi...@gmail.com wrote: A simple way of getting the number is simply checking the revenue of the key companies involved in the business. I can't agree with this. That can work on closed software environment, but on free libre software it is much more complicated. As a start: what is a key company? A big one? Like Red Hat? I doubt that we have anything like that on geospatial software. We have companies involved with OSGEO in several degrees, but I don't think that we have a small group of companies that represents all the osgeo world. The reason is very simple: there are a lot of medium and small companies working with OSGEO software. Companies that you may never hear about, even if you are very active here or on the conferences, because they focus on the development and not on the community. Also, there are a lot of other companies that combine close and free software. How do you calculate revenue there? In my opionion, if you really want something like this, I guess that you will have to invest a lot of time studying the market, asking hundreds of companies to get a more or less good estimate. Regards, María. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] overall value of market for business based on OSGEO projects?
Hi Andrea, Not quite the same question, but an easier metric to measure, is the estimated cost of software to develop, using David Wheeler's method for evaluating the cost of Linux to develop http://www.dwheeler.com/sloc/redhat71-v1/redhat71sloc.html You can find OpenHub metrics for OSGeo projects referenced from: http://live.osgeo.org/en/metrics.html On 9/07/2015 3:53 pm, Andrea Giacomelli wrote: Hi Brian, and thanks for the inspirational overview. I totally agree with it. But if I go back with this to my colleague (I won't meet him at the cafe after close-of-business today because I'm travelling, but tomorrow might well be), he will claim that this is too much of a quasi-philosophical explanation. A simple way of getting the number is simply checking the revenue of the key companies involved in the business. The next quantum leap in innovation might be round the corner and completely change our paradigms for estimating the size of a market, but until this happens, if we are assigning a value to it, we are making a bet. The third level you mention is what my colleague calls ecosystem services. Interestingly, their value can be estimated as well (I have started to work a few years ago on one of these cases); but for the time being, I will stick to level 1, considering the thread open for a couple of days, should any other folk wish to drop a line. Thanks also for the good travels in Italy...in fact I am an Italian citizen and a resident, but I travel quite a lot up and down The boot, as we call it (today towards the AC/DC gig in Imola...) Best regards! Andrea Giacomelli http://www.pibinko.org 2015-07-08 21:22 GMT+02:00 Brian M Hamlin mapl...@light42.com mailto:mapl...@light42.com: Hi Andrea - like so many good questions looking for a simple answer, there is no simple answer.. Let's make a thought experiment .. and divide economic acitivity into three different groups.. Each one could be measured in currency, but I wll argue that only one of them makes sense.. * in the first case, the market is like a physical market . someone has eggs to sell, or furniture, or a service like medical service.. a customer pays in currency, and all transactions are recorded (somehow).. the ecomonic value is the sum of all transactions.. * the second is a market like a legal federation of many marketplaces.. things are available from multiple sources, so prices go up and down.. the prices change for a variety of reasons. But, what if someone gives something essential, for non-market reasons.. the price may go down.. but what if a machine is invented that make one million times more of a good or service? does the price go down ? what if the machine makes something that was never available before.. is there a price ? * the third is the natural world we live in.. a unique collection of clear air, clean water, things to eat and places to live and make babies.. what is the price of clean water ? does it go up or down.. what is the price of a rhinocerous or an elephant, that is a living being not in the human market at all .. what if the actions of the market kills or poison things that are not in the market, to make room for things that are in the market.. what if software can be used to understand these relationships outside of any market ? what is the price of this software .. So, in the first and most simple case.. you could take the sum of economic activity inside the exchange of currency.. However, on a larger scale, the second and third measures are very important.. I say that the OpenSource Geospatial software worlds are very much in all of those.. so any number you count in the first one will be a poor measure of the others.. good travels in Italy Brian M Hamlin -- Brian M Hamlin OSGeo California Chapter blog.light42.com http://blog.light42.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter, Software and Data Solutions Manager LISAsoft Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf, 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009 P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Code of Conduct in Real Case
Dear All, I’d like to report updates on our discussion. 1. Regarding CoC offline discussion at FOSS4G Seoul, we may have discussion at BOF meeting[0]. I believe Jeff already marked the timeslot there on 16th September. If you need more timeslots, just add to the BOF wiki please. Also if you want have any BOF meeting during FOSS4G Seoul, please add your plan to the wiki page. 2. I removed my controversial(?) presentation from the main page. I think it was too outdated and not so attractive. It’s now time to promote through FOSS4G Seoul program itself. You may see new main page there[1]. Your attending and participation is very crucial to the success of FOSS4G Seoul. Please register FOSS4G Seoul(http://2015.foss4g.org/attending/registration/ http://2015.foss4g.org/attending/registration/) and meet up in Seoul altogether!! All the best, Sanghee [0]http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2015_BirdsOfAFeather http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2015_BirdsOfAFeather [1]http://2015.foss4g.org/ http://2015.foss4g.org/ --- Sanghee Shin, Chair of FOSS4G 2015 Seoul Toward Diversity! FOSS4G Bigbang from Seoul! http://2015.foss4g.org Twitter: @foss4g Facebook: FOSS4G2015 email: foss4gch...@osgeo.org 2015. 6. 25., 오전 9:34, Sanghee Shin shs...@gaia3d.com 작성: Dear All, Thank you for all your great opinions, advices and inputs through this mailing lists and through to my private mail. I think we’ve discussed enough on this. I agree with Maria and Maxi’s suggestion to have a offline discussion time in Seoul. I’ll explore the possibility whether we can have that spaces before/during/after FOSS4G Seoul and will report to you. And I also agree with some advices that because my presentation was highly dependent on verbal explanation, it not so effective itself to deliver my clear intention. I’ll think about how to handle this. Thanks again for great and wonderful inputs. How about having a break for while? All the best, Sanghee --- Sanghee Shin, Chair of FOSS4G 2015 Seoul Toward Diversity! FOSS4G Bigbang from Seoul! http://2015.foss4g.org http://2015.foss4g.org/ Twitter: @foss4g Facebook: FOSS4G2015 email: foss4gch...@osgeo.org mailto:foss4gch...@osgeo.org 2015. 6. 25., 오전 9:22, Massimiliano Cannata massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch mailto:massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch 작성: Once again I express my opinion: I think that OSGeo shall express and support a CoC that is respecting diversity in any form, but we don not have the right to censure anything. If something really bad happens than someone will take action based on the agreed CoC. Do we really want to argue about the images and content of anyone presentation? The community is the best referee of the conduct of its members not a bunch of people deciding what is good or not. And YES, we can discuss it in Seoul to find a way to rise attention to the CoC and discuss more (but friendly and with respect of diversity ;-) ) Maxi 2015-06-25 10:07 GMT+02:00 Pat Tressel ptres...@myuw.net mailto:ptres...@myuw.net: I hesitate to step into the sexism in tech debate, but... There may be some recent events that folks aren't aware of, that may be relevant -- some specifically have to do with conferences. This list is not R-rated, so rather than directly describe the relevant events, I'll just give you search queries that will bring them up: PyCon donglegate TechCrunch sexism Pax Dickenson brogrammer GamerGate Those are only tips of the iceberg -- they are specific symptoms of a more general attitude. I've listed them in order of seriousness. I expect that these will get the that's just PC objection, but are threats of rape and murder really just for fun? And if the objection is that women just just force their way into tech, I have two words for you: hiring manager. And no, not all of us have the resources to start our own companies. Venture funding is rarely offered to women. When I worked as a software engineer for Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) in the 90s, the group I was in was half women. No, not secretaries and support staff -- engineers. But there was a difference in attitude, which one can see in the fact that although DEC ceased to exist in 1998 (sold to Compaq), we *still have reunions* and active social networks. The switch to deliberately provoking competition and infighting between employees, via stack ranking and similar management fads, is exacerbating the rise of sexism in tech -- there is now an aspect of us against them. Because employment is a zero-sum game, (re)entry of women in tech would mean fewer positions and less money for men. (Competing against other men doesn't trigger the same level of response since men are already in the pool -- it's the thought of the pool *doubling* that is causing this fear.) Since this style of management (stemming from Jack Welch) is taught in
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] Should we consider all the Americas for FOSS4G2017 Conference?
I agree with you Steven, NA + EU + others Numbers of participants justify this choice. Continents could still get their annual conference. Maxi Il 08/Lug/2015 18:05 Steven Feldman shfeld...@gmail.com ha scritto: Interesting idea What do you think the outcome would be? Seems to me that it would make it would reduce competition in ‘elsewhere group’. Would it increase S American chance of hosting a global FOSS4G? My view, it makes sense to keep 1/3 FOSS4G’s in N America and 1/3 in Europe with the 3rd in ‘elsewhere group’ - it encourages outreach to new places once in 3 years while ensuring that the event is hosted in the back yards of the 2 largest communities of contributors and users in the other years. __ Steven On 8 Jul 2015, at 13:45, Ian Turton ijtur...@gmail.com wrote: Following a brief twitter discussion - Jeff suggested I raise the idea here. Now that we have FOSS4g-NA as a regular conference should we consider opening up the third location in our conference rotation to be Americas - i.e. North and South America instead of lumping South America in with Asia and the Pacific (or the anywhere else group)? I can understand the thinking back in 2010 but I know there are now large groups in Brazil and the Spanish language group is active in South America too. Ian -- Ian Turton ___ Conference_dev mailing list conference_...@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
