Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[María Arias de Reyna]

El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:27, Mark Iliffe  escribió:

> This would be good - learning from the Dar FOSS4G experience would be a
> good starting place for this. Unfortunately,y not many people believe that
> the laws and codes of conduct we create need to be refreshed and amended to
> keep in pace with our community.
>
> On 22 Jun 2018, at 18:18, María Arias de Reyna  wrote:
>
> That's exactly what I'm trying to do.
>
> Massive +1
>

I want to start with a common CoC for OSGeo (at least as a best practices
model) while keeping conversations with other organizations. As part of a
woman in tech association many orgs have asked for advice already. And
there's already some initiatives for creating common resources. The ones I
know, in Spanish, but that shouldn't be a blocker for a start.

Having exactly the same rules for all situations is difficult, but having a
template is feasible.


> El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter 
> escribió:
>
>> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct
>> improvements).
>>
>> Maria,
>>
>> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone
>> wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic
>> geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that
>> others are attracted to make it happen.
>>
>> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own
>> CoC, everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation"
>> which takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts,
>> which are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons
>> licenses for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
>>
>> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within
>> our CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or
>> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up
>> being called).
>>
>> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people,
>> who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and
>> attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
>>
>> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort,
>> but would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
>>
>> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
>> escribió:
>>
>>>
>>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
>>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
>>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>>>
>>
>> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
>> in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
>> better on each kind of organizations.
>>
>> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
>> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
>> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
>> have advanced, is already old.
>>
>> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into
>>> the numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based
>>> upon. I think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely
>>> on our underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address
>>> concerns as they arise.
>>>
>>
>> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.
>>
>> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
>> right now:
>>
>> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful
>> words as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.
>>
>> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is
>> one of the things that are wrong.
>>
>> This article can explain the situation better than me:
>> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>>
>> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
>> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.
>>
>>
>>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Technology Demystifier
>> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>>
>> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>>
>> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[Mark Iliffe]

This would be good - learning from the Dar FOSS4G experience would be a good 
starting place for this. Unfortunately,y not many people believe that the laws 
and codes of conduct we create need to be refreshed and amended to keep in pace 
with our community.

> On 22 Jun 2018, at 18:18, María Arias de Reyna  wrote:
> 
That's exactly what I'm trying to do. 

Massive +1

> El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter  > escribió:
> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct 
> improvements).
> 
> Maria,
> 
> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone wishes 
> for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic geek-fairies go 
> and write it for them because the idea is so good that others are attracted 
> to make it happen.
> 
> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own CoC, 
> everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" which 
> takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts, which 
> are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons licenses for 
> data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
> 
> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within our 
> CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or 
> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up 
> being called).
> 
> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people, who 
> would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and attract a 
> commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
> 
> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, but 
> would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
> 
> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter > > escribió:
>> 
>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to 
>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is 
>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>> 
>> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that in 
>> the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works better on 
>> each kind of organizations. 
>> 
>> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I 
>> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time 
>> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we 
>> have advanced, is already old. 
>> 
>> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the 
>> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I 
>> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our 
>> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns 
>> as they arise.
>> 
>> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger. 
>> 
>> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense 
>> right now:
>> 
>> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words 
>> as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense. 
>> 
>> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is one 
>> of the things that are wrong. 
>> 
>> This article can explain the situation better than me: 
>> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you 
>> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more. 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier
> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
> 
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[María Arias de Reyna]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter 
escribió:

> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct
> improvements).
>
> Maria,
>
> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone
> wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic
> geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that
> others are attracted to make it happen.
>
> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own CoC,
> everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" which
> takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts, which
> are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons licenses
> for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
>
> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within our
> CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or
> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up
> being called).
>
> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people,
> who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and
> attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
>
> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, but
> would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
>
> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
>
>
> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
> escribió:
>
>>
>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>>
>
> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
> in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
> better on each kind of organizations.
>
> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
> have advanced, is already old.
>
> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the
>> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I
>> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our
>> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns
>> as they arise.
>>
>
> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.
>
> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
> right now:
>
> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words
> as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.
>
> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is
> one of the things that are wrong.
>
> This article can explain the situation better than me:
> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>
> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.
>
>
>>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier
> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>
>
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[Cameron Shorter]

(Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct 
improvements).


Maria,

I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone 
wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic 
geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that 
others are attracted to make it happen.


I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own 
CoC, everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" 
which takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of 
Conducts, which are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative 
Commons licenses for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.


Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within 
our CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or 
CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end 
up being called).


This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people, 
who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and 
attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.


Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, 
but would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.



On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:



El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
mailto:cameron.shor...@gmail.com>> escribió:



Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting
it to create rules which consider all future opportunities for
human conflict is utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.


I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering 
that in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what 
works better on each kind of organizations.


What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. 
As I already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for 
the time it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering 
how much we have advanced, is already old.


There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put
into the numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct
was based upon. I think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as
possible, and rely on our underlying morals, ethics, and
collective intelligence to address concerns as they arise.


My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.

Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make 
sense right now:


We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful 
words as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.


So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do 
is one of the things that are wrong.


This article can explain the situation better than me: 
https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/


This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you 
understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.





--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss