Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Board nomination: Jorge Sanz

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Javier Diaz  wrote:

> I second Jorge Sanz nomination too.
>


Agree. Jorge is a fundamental part of the Spanish Osgeo community.


>
> Javiarch
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:19:57 -0300
> > From: Jeff McKenna 
> > To: osgeo 
> > Cc: "c...@osgeo.org" 
> > Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Board nomination: Jorge Sanz
> > Message-ID: <520bca4d.6050...@gatewaygeomatics.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > I would like to nominate Jorge Sanz[1] for the 2013 OSGeo Board
> > elections.  Jorge is a very active community member from Spain, with his
> > hands into many different parts of OSGeo.  Not only at the project
> > level, but he is an active representative and speaker of the Spanish
> > Language Local Chapter (OSGeo-ES), as well as through his local area of
> > Valencia.
> >
> > I've had the pleasure of listening to some of his presentations, and I
> > see Jorge as an excellent global representative of OSGeo.  I have no
> > doubt that through his experience, his confidence, and his leadership,
> > that he will be able to give important input into the shape of the OSGeo
> > foundation.
> >
> > I strongly recommend that Jorge become a member of the OSGeo Board.
> >
> >
> > [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz
> >
> >
> > PS.  thank you to Jorge for accepting this nomination during his
> > vacation.  A sign of his dedication.
> >
> >
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Looking for a one pager write up for Why Open Source is good.

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <
bob.basq...@ci.stpaul.mn.us> wrote:

>  Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for a one pager write-up for a Booth display for why Open
> Source Software is a good bet for businesses.
>
> Anything I can use freely or pointers would be appreciated. This is
> intended as an informational handout.
>
> I have a start on something below, maybe it's easier for folks to add to
> these.  I'll go off and look some on Google
>
> Thanks in advance.
>


Hi,

Look for the four liberties of free software. Here are some hints:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
And don't use open, use free:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html


>
> 
>
> Here are some benefits that Open Source software gives you.
>
>- You are not prohibited from using Commercial Software in the mix.
>- The act of using OpenSource software in general is also promoting
>the Open-Data concept as well as Open-Standards.
>- You are not requiring other potential business partners to use
>Commercial Software in order to use your services and get at your data in
>an unfettered manner, nor to serve their data to you.  Interoperability is
>considerably enhanced.  The big commerical packages offer these
>capabilities as well, but beware of special situations and process
>additions that still bind your process to a commercial package.
>- The bigger picture view is that OpenSource should be thought of as a
>method for keeping business operations open and inter-operable across
>boundaries and jurisdictions.  And to be thought of as a business best
>practice.  It's not about going 100% OpenSource, even though you can if you
>want to, but to provide a system and mechanisms that work for both
>proprietary and open technologies.
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Annual General Meeting @ FOSS4G, Nottingham - Friday Sept 20th, 6pm - 7pm

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Jeff McKenna  wrote:

> Thanks for those OSGeo officers and local chapter chairs who have
> already volunteered to give an update during the Annual General
> Meeting (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2013).
> Others: if you are attending FOSS4G-Nottingham, please consider
> sharing an update from your local chapter or committee in the meeting.
>
> -jeff
>
>
>
> On 2013-08-16 12:35 PM, Anne Ghisla wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > The Annual General Meeting for OSGeo is open to everybody. The goal
> > is to share details of the activities of the Foundation, from
> > committees and local chapters all around the world.
> >
> > This year, AGM will take place in Nottingham, at FOSS4G venue. Save
> > the date:
> >
> > Friday, September 20th, from 6 to 7 PM
> >
> > Please find details and updates on the dedicated wiki page:
> > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2013
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Anne
> >
>
>
Hi,

just one stupid question: where is it gonna take place? Which building?
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining a GIO position (or attmepting to . . .)

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I wonder if I could get some feedback on the following statement, I’m
> looking for the other side of the argument (I know it’s hard to put yourself
> there  :c).
>
>
>
> “Open Source software enforces standards”
>
>
>
> Now this might be better worded, and it seems straight forward enough here.
> I’m trying to define a GIO position such that it doesn’t reference anything
> commercial, but will still cover those commercial packages at the same time.
> I’m basically thinking about going the route of data standards both for
> archiving as well as distribution.
>
>
>
> So, what would you anticipate the other side of the argument (Our Human
> Resources section in this case) to reply to the above statement, as if they
> wanted to include some specific commercial application in the assigned
> duties, for example.  In the end I’m trying to get out of a long winded
> statement about why an open approach is better than a commercial one and the
> standards piece seem to be the best topic to base the discussion on.

In my experience (maybe because I don't discuss this with people who
know much about the subject so they have very basic opinions), they
usually come with:

 * Standars aren't the better format to work with
 * Propietary standards can be more efficient because they are
optimized for the propietary software
 * We already have the information on the propietary format and don't
want to migrate

And, of course:
 * Our propietary solution also works with standards (this is very
tricky to fight against)

Good luck!
María.

>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Bobb
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Possible CS-W Portal Opportunity

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Breimyer, Paul - 0442 - MITLL
 wrote:
> My name is Paul Breimyer and I work for MIT Lincoln Laboratory, a government
> research lab (FFRDC).  We are building what is effectively a secure CS-W
> portal interface for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).  I'm writing
> to see if OSGeo might be interested in the portal if it were open sourced
> appropriately.  As part of this work we reviewed GeoNetwork: the backend
> services were well implemented, but we found the portal to be lacking
> capabilities that were necessary (at least for our use cases).  There may be
> an opportunity to enhance the GeoNetwork portal to facilitate broader
> adoption of the CS-W  standard.  Please let me know if there's interest to
> learn more.


Hi Paul,

As geoNetwork developer, I assure you we are pretty interested in any
enhancement we can merge in geoNetwork. Do you think it may be
possible to tell us more about this? Right now we have identified some
things to solve (mostly spatially operations related), but an external
point of view is always welcome.

There is a developers mailing list for geoNetwork:
geonetwork-de...@lists.sourceforge.net, if you think you are going to
be too technical for a more general mailing list like this one.

>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> --
>
> Paul Breimyer, Ph.D.
>
> Technical Staff, Surveillance Systems
>
> MIT Lincoln Laboratory
>
> (781) 981-0923 (work)
>
> (781) 879-8675 (cell)
>
> paul.breim...@ll.mit.edu
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] gvSIG: as desktop application officially supported by OSGeo

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 8:37 AM, ProjectNewAge wrote:

> I just wanted to ask whether gvSIG could be mentioned a desktop
> application officially supported by OSGeo (currently this isn't the
> case, see "OSGeo Projects" column at the right at
> http://www.osgeo.org/
>


As far as I know, gvSIG is still incubating. So, you can mention that it is
an incubation project, which doesn't make it official, but is under the
OsGeo umbrella.

María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] update osgeo live 5.0 to osgeolive 7.0

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Andreas Hoffmann <
andreas.in...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex Hi list,
>
> thank you for your reply, how the ubuntu update process is working I
> already have a plan and I'm not totally new to it. I'll give it a try by
> updating to ubuntu to 12.04 first and then change the repos in
> sources.list.d to the files fond on the osgeo live DVD and run updates
> again to update the geo software.
>
> Do this may break configurations, like changes passwords (e.g. for the
> geoserver)?
>

It shouldn't. Anyway, it is always good to have a backup of all your
important data before any update of the OS.


>
> Best Regards,
> Andreas
>
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Alex Mandel 
> wrote:
>
>> On 05/15/2014 11:13 PM, Andreas Hoffmann wrote:
>> > Hello list,
>> >
>> > I have a small installed version of osgeo live 5.0 and we would like to
>> > update it to version 7.0
>> > is there a way to do this on the running version without the need to do
>> a
>> > clean install from a 7.0 DVD and then put all data back on the new
>> > installation?
>> >
>> > Any insight or hint would be very appreciated.
>> >
>> > Greetings from Germany
>> > Andreas Hoffmann
>> >
>>
>> It is possible but could be a big pain. The first thing is that you'll
>> need to run is an Ubuntu upgrade, to get your version of Ubuntu up to
>> 12.04
>>
>> You could try putting the OSGeo Live 7.0 DVD in and see if it wants you
>> to upgrade from that.
>>
>> Even after you do the Ubuntu upgrade, you'll also need to upgrade all
>> the non-default geospatial packages. This may require you to edit the
>> apt sources in /etc/sources.lists.d/ to point at updated repos.
>>
>> So yes it is possible but you'll need to be willing to learn a bit about
>> how Ubuntu upgrades and PPAs work. FYI you should backup your file to an
>> external drive anyways.
>>
>> Let us know if you need help finding more information.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>>
>>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Membership fee (was: Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members)

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I have been reading this conversation silently and for my point of view, if
paying helps OsGeo, then subsctription fees are welcome.

But there is a big but: for students and people who are unemployed,
subsctription fees can be very discouraging. It happened to me with IEEE
and I still haven't returned to them after so many years. Once I couldn't
pay the membership, it was like forcing me to go away. I know that OsGeo is
more open and that even people who is not a member can participate actively
on mailing lists and projects but... it helps if you feel that you are part
of the community.

So, couldn't we add some kind of volunteer work to compensate the fee on
some cases? For example: people that work on maintenance of the servers, or
translate very hard or help on conferences, can they get a discounted or
even free subscription?

This way, all OsGeo members will contribute to OsGeo (with fees or work)
and people who are very active but cannot pay the fees will have also
recognition.

Just a random thought.


On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Mateusz Łoskot  wrote:

> On 24 June 2014 14:02, Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas  wrote:
> > El 24/06/14 13:26, Mateusz Łoskot escribió:
> >>>
> >> Shortly, I see nothing wrong in expecting as an organisation
> >> that if an individual aims and agrees to be nominated for
> >> OSGeo Charter Member she/he also agrees to donate on yearly/monthly
> basis.
> >>
> >
> > Yes but I see that as different things, one is being nominated and
> > elected as member, and other being an active sponsor of the
> > organization.
> >
> > They are complementary, some people want to be involved on
> > the organization donating time, others maybe just want to donate funds,
> > and finally some crazy people both :-)
>
> So, you prefer that Charter Members and non-Charter Members
> is not differentiated (among other things) by paid membership.
>
> > But when it comes on deciding who is on the board or any other important
> > issue, I prefer having a membership that has been in one way or the
> > other elected by the community, not one that has paid their annual fee.
>
> AFAIU, nobody proposed to replace Charter Members election
> with membership fees, but to complement the former with the latter.
>
> >>> Ha! Not exactly that, but maybe doing better outreach effort to show
> >>> where the money is used would help to a better understanding of the
> need
> >>> of funds.
> >>>
> >>> Budgets are published and anyone willing to ask can reach them, but
> >>> maybe being more proactive on showing the need for money could help to
> >>> increase the perception that maintaining OSGeo is not free (as free
> beer).
> >>
> >> Yes, but that is more a technical issue. So, it's the easiest one to
> >> solve, I think.
> >
> > It's not important now but anyway I didn't explain well myself. I see it
> > as an organizational and marketing issue. As our treasurer, the task of
> > publicly remembering where the money comes and goes is probably one of
> > most ungrateful jobs anyone can have here, only for a tireless special
> one.
>
> The books show where the money comes from and where it goes,
> so still technical issue, but yes it requires hard work to maintain.
> However, the marketing side...is a different issue that is much harder to
> work on than the former one, I think.
>
> Best regards,
> --
> Mateusz  Łoskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Election 2014] Nomination for Iván Sánchez

[María Arias de Reyna]

I can't believe he is not part of osgeo yet. He has done much more than
some of us here!


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Pedro-Juan Ferrer Matoses <
pfer...@osgeo.org> wrote:

> I also would like to second this nomination.
>
> Iván is a truly geonerd in all things GEO and NERD (he is one of the
> guys that holds an @geonerd.org email accounts so this is LITERAL) and
> also contributes with his unique perspective to everything that
> catches his attention.
>
> The FOS[S|D]4G world wouldn't be the same without his contributions.
>
>
> --
> Pedro-Juan Ferrer Matoses
> Valencia (España)
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Gender bias in nominations

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Jeff McKenna  wrote:

> It has been reported to me directly that there are not enough female
> nominations for Charter members.  I just want to bring this to the
> attention of the whole community.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> -jeff
>
>
Agreed.

On the other hand, no one should be nominated just because of their gender.
In the long run, it doesn't help increasing female numbers. (It won't be
the first time someone thinks I am where I am just because I am female and
not because I worked hard.)

I'm sorry if I am bothering someone, but I am very picky with all this
stuff. It is the eternal discussion about not having enough female in tech
organizations. If we want to have more female on OsGeo, we should go to
school now to have them in OsGeo in a few years :)

Until then, does it really matter? Are we doing things different? I know it
looks very cool to have half and half but, is it really important?

Regards,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Gender bias in nominations

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Barry Rowlingson <
b.rowling...@lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Jeff McKenna
>  wrote:
> > Thank you everyone for responding (María, Jo, Anne, Madi, Andrea, mpg,
> > Cameron, and Regina).  I agree that the OSGeo community is always
> > welcoming, and thank you for confirming that there is no issue with the
> > election/nomination process.  It is sometimes hard when I receive direct
> > messages with concerns and thank you for helping me handle it.
> >
>
>  With my statistician hat on here, I have to point out that this is
> what we call "a biased sample". Not that the individuals are biased
> themselves, but the group is necessarily going to be made up of, lets
> say, "satisfied customers".
>
>  For every Jo there may be a dozen Janes who tried to contribute to
> OSGeo, found it an unwelcoming place, and quietly left with no
> complaint or fuss. Complaining about bullying and harrassment can be
> very difficult, and especially in a voluntary group many will just get
> on with their real jobs, not seeing any great loss to themselves in
> not being part of it. This contrasts with harrassment/bullying at
> work, where there is greater necessity to speak out, and, one would
> hope, there are established complaints procedures and a helpful union
> to argue for you.
>

You can't avoid stupid people bullying candidates. That said, at least from
the Spanish side, I found no problem with being female in OsGeo. If there
are not many more females on this side it is just because there are no
candidates for it.


>
>  Personally I think the gender imbalance in tech springs from the day
> baby girls are first dressed in pink and given dolls and baby boys
> dressed in blue and given toy guns. I'm hopeful that society is
> getting better - although slowly. "Teach your children well" as Crosby
> Stills and Nash did sing...
>

Can't agree more.

You still can find (even young!) people that thinks it is not an education
but a biological difference. But at least my experience says otherwise.

I am not sure society is getting better. In the '80, Lego made ads for
girls using normal Lego toys:
http://testdb.msmagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Lego-ad.jpg
Now we have Lego princess:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=legos+princess&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alegos+princess

But that is in our hands to change. In kids, not in OsGeo charter
nominations.

Forgive my ignorance but, has OsGeo some kind of program or plan to go to
schools? Because I am planning to go next year to Universities to give
talks and I would like to go also to schools, so it would be helpful if I
have some background here.


>
> Barry
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Election 2014] Nomination for Patricio Soriano

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Jorge Sanz  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It's my pleasure to nominate Patricio Soriano for the OSGeo Charter
> Membership. Patricio[1][2] is the force behind one of the most active
> micro chapters efforts in Spain: Geoinquietos Córdoba[3]. He is a
> consultant on geomatics, mainly focused on heritage conservation,
> lecturer and an amazing advocate of FOSS4G and Open Data (mainly OSM).
> He usually writes in Spanish in two geospatial blogs[4][5]. I really
> think he would be a great asset for OSGeo.
>
> Cheers
> Jorge
>
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/User:Pasoriano
> [2] https://www.linkedin.com/in/patriciosorianocastro/en
> [3] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Geoinquietos_C%C3%B3rdoba
> [4] http://cordopolis.es/des-coordenado/
> [5] http://sigdeletras.com/
>
>
+1 He represents the OsGeo spirit very well!
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OpenSource track GeoSpatial World Forum 2015

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Just van den Broecke
 wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> As OSGeo.nl Dutch Local Chapter [1] we have organized this track in 2012 and
> 2013. I just saw: 26 mei in Lisbon [2]:
>
> Good to see familiar faces :-). Anyone knows who in OSGeo or a local chapter
> is organizing this? Possibly they can update the Wiki [3]
>
> Best,
>
> --Just van den Broecke
> Secretary OSGeo.nl
>
> [1] http://osgeo.nl
> [2] http://geospatialworldforum.org/sessions.asp?Sp_Department=Open%20Source
> [3] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Geospatial_World_Forum
>
>

Hi,

Probably the portuguese people can help here:
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/portugal

Regards,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Local-chapters] Legal entities for Local Chapters

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Jachym Cepicky 
wrote:

> You form legal entity when you think, it makes sense
>
> and it does not have to consume much time as you might think
>

I think time depends on legality on each country and how many workarounds
you have to do to when whatever the chapter is trying to do needs a legal
form.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] overall value of market for business based on OSGEO projects?

[María Arias de Reyna]

HI,

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Andrea Giacomelli  wrote:
> A simple way of getting the number is simply checking the revenue of the key
> companies involved in the business.

I can't agree with this. That can work on closed software environment,
but on free libre software it is much more complicated.

As a start: what is a "key" company? A big one? Like Red Hat? I doubt
that we have anything like that on geospatial software. We have
companies involved with OSGEO in several degrees, but I don't think
that we have a small group of companies that represents all the osgeo
world.

The reason is very simple: there are a lot of medium and small
companies working with OSGEO software. Companies that you may never
hear about, even if you are very active here or on the conferences,
because they focus on the development and not on the community. Also,
there are a lot of other companies that combine close and free
software. How do you calculate revenue there?

In my opionion, if you really want something like this, I guess that
you will have to invest a lot of time studying the market, asking
hundreds of companies to get a more or less good estimate.

Regards,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Birds of a feather rooms: Seoul FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I have added a BOF session for Crowdsourcing of data. This is a "new"
topic that is getting hot, so all different points of view about this
are very welcomed!

I say "new" because although we have had things like OSM for a looong
time working successfully, there is a different wave of
opendata/crowddata that is getting more and more important on GIS.

Regards,
María.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Jeff McKenna
 wrote:
> Have a topic for discussion and are planning on attending FOSS4G Seoul?  Be
> sure to reserve a room and sign up at:
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2015_BirdsOfAFeather
>
> -jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Board election: no re-elections this year?

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Gert-Jan van der Weijden  wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> Preparing to cast my vote for the board election, I noticed that all 4
> (Jáchym, Bart, Gérald, Jorge) board members who reached the end of their
> 2-year term are not standing for re-election. (besides that: Anne decided
> not to stay for her 2nd year of her 1st term)
>
> Some questions arise:
> - Is the board membership such a demanding job that members always resign
> after 2 years?
> - Is this a good thing, to make sure we dont'have board members who are
> tied to their seats?
> - Or is this a bad thing, with board members switching too fast to reach
> their goals?
>
> Respones from anybody are as always appreciated, but the 4+1 resigning
> board members and the current candidates are especially invited to give
> their humble opinion on this.
>
>
Maybe if the board has so much work we should have also workgroups that
assist them? What are the tasks for the board that takes so much
time/effort?

I like rotating the board, but indeed is quite suspicious that few people
want to repeat.


> Regards,
>
> Gert-Jan
>
>
> Gert-Jan van der Weijden
> Voorzitter Stichting OSGeo.nl
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo is becoming irrelevant. Here's why. Let's fix it.

[María Arias de Reyna]

When people ask me how should they start on the GIS world, I always give
them two advices:

 * Check OsGeo.
 * Read the Libro Libre de SIG Libre[1] (only Spanish, translations
accepted)

If OsGeo disappeared, someone should invent it.

Which doesn't mean it is the only way to achieve the same goals. For
example, in Spain we have the geoinquietos (georestless) local groups which
work somehow independently from OsGeo. But most of the people are the same
in both groups, it is just that using our own "brand" allows us to do
things more freely (talking about data instead of software, talking about
privative resources, talking about geocaching, just take some
geobeers,...). But we always go back to OsGeo as the reference.


[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Libro_SIG
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo is becoming irrelevant. Here's why. Let's fix it.

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Julien Michel 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am a fairly new charter member, so maybe the two following comments here
> will be irrelevant.
>
> From my perspective, having Orfeo ToolBox as an incubating project
> definitively helped us to move in the right direction. I am not saying that
> it would not have occured without OSGeo, but the organization gives the
> momentum and defines the standards to reach. As such, it is useful and
> somehow efficient. The fact that the process is long is mostly on the
> project side in our case.
>
> I think that the Github move is hazardous. Sure, it is easy, free for
> open-source projects, and really really cool. Granted, it helps a lot in
> getting fluid contributions to open-source projects. But ... in two years,
> they may start shipping sponsors links at the end of the Readme files, and
> in a moments notice you have to watch 20 seconds ads before cloning. At
> this point, you will want to bail out, only to find out that in fact you
> can not, because you can not delete the project anymore, or the issue
> tracker database can not be exported ...
>
> My point is, OSGeo should care about long-term protection of GIS
> open-source, and if this goal aligns for now with services that Github
> provides, it may no longer be the case in the future .Of course we need to
> be on Github: it is a public place to be, like twitter & co. But completely
> giving up code hosting and developers exchanges to a private company is the
> opposite of what I think the organization should do.
>
> I know proper hosting services requires time and money, I do not have the
> solution to that, but for me OSGeo should provide a sustainable
> alternative, up-to-date and tailored for its purpose.
>
>
Completely agree with you, Julien. Avoid openess and advance towards
freedom :)

The easiest solution is to have our own git repository+dashboard on our own
server, like with gitlab: https://about.gitlab.com/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo is becoming irrelevant. Here's why. Let's fix it.

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Sandro Santilli  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:00:33PM -0700, Pat Tressel wrote:
>
> > Given that GitHub is Linus Torvald's project,
>
> Is it ? Where did you read about this ?
>
> http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/linus-torvalds-views-on-why-github-sucks.html
>
> --strk;
>
>
Linus  is the visible head behind git, not behind github. Some people
confuse both and probably that's where the story started.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Renaming FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi Barry,

No, please no!! FOSS4G is easy to pronounce in several languages, includes
the word Free and is the name of the conference. OsGeo is ¿"just"? the
organization behind it.

I think it will make even more sense to change OSGeo to FOSGeo.

Comments inline.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Barry Rowlingson <
b.rowling...@lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

> Okay, this is probably sticking a match under a pile of dry wood but
> here goes...
>
> Can we rename The FOSS4G Conference to The OSGeo Conference?
>
> Cons:
>
>  1. FOSS4G is an established brand
>
>  2. FOSS4G sidesteps the "Free" vs "Open Source" argument by including
> both.
>
> Counters to those:
>
>  1. Really? Perhaps amongst OSGeo people, but outside our sphere I
> have to expand the acronym and then go on to mention OSGeo.
>
>  2. Let's have that argument somewhere else, okay?
>

What argument? Why? If you are thinking about the free/open argument,
that's something we *should* make clear before the "openess" eats us.


> Pros:
>
>  1. Puts the *Geo* visible, not tucked away as a G at the end.
>
>  2. Gets rid of the "4G", which may have been a cool thing 2 do ten
> years ago, but not now :)
>
>  3. Removes any confusion with 4G telecoms networks.
>

For this we just have to wait until the 5G generation.


>
>  4. Clearly brands the conference as an OSGeo conference. Recent
> discussion about the prominence and significance of OSGeo to FOSS4G
> becomes moot.
>

If OSGeo becomes irrelevant to FOSS4G it will be because FOSS4G has evolved
to something better. What would be the problem in that? Give space to
things so they can evolve...


>
>  5. Is easy to explain. The OSGeo Conference is the open source
> geospatial conference. See the OSGeo web site. Search for OSGeo. One
> acronym to remember.
>

And then when we talk about OSGeo it may become confusing if we are
referring to the conference or to the organization.


>
> [I toyed with the idea that the conference should be called "OSGeo
> Live!" and renaming the OSGeo Live operating system disc as "OSGeoOS"
> but that might be a bit too much :)]
>
> So, this is the discuss list, discuss.
>
> Barry
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Renaming FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

Another reason *not* to change the name: if it is called the OSGeo
conference, non-OSGeo software or companies will feel rejected and don't
want to come. I find it very refresh to be able to discuss non-OSGeo but
FOSS4G things in this kind of conferences.

Regards,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo/LocationTech relationship

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

Are you sure that is a complete list of what the approved licenses are?
That would be pretty disappointing if they limit by "name" of the license
instead of by "rights".

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Massimiliano Cannata <
massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote:

> Sandro,
>
> from https://www.locationtech.org/charter in "IP Management" section:
>
> *"... The group will follow the Eclipse Foundation's IP due diligence
> process in order to provide clean open source software released under
> licenses approved by the group and the Eclipse Foundation Board of
> Directors. Approved licenses for this group include EPL, MIT, BSD, and
> Apache 2.0. "*
>
> So I understand that GPL is not welcome in LocationTech ;-)
>
> Maxi
>
>
>
> 2015-11-13 7:49 GMT+01:00 Sandro Santilli :
>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:29:59PM +, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>
>> > I may as well link to my more recent talk (https://vimeo.com/142989259)
>> as
>>
>> Interesting talk Jody, thank you !
>>
>> One thing it wasn't clear to me (I might have dreamt it):
>> did you say that LocationTech only accept non-copylefted projects
>> in the foundation ? I think it came out by the very end
>> of the talk, in response to a question from Luca Delucchi (~30:00)
>>
>> I tried browsing the locationtech.org website but found no mention
>> of this limitation.
>>
>> It's confusing, because you early mentioned that projects can be
>> in both foundations while if that's confirmed projects like PostGIS,
>> GRASS or QGIS (to name a few) could _not_ be.
>>
>> It is interesting that they have dedicated IP stuff, would come to
>> think the actual goal is to help companies ride the "Open Source" tide
>> (still big, and still growing) w/out risk of getting wet...
>>
>> --strk;
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Massimiliano Cannata*
>
> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
>
> Responsabile settore Geomatica
>
>
> Istituto scienze della Terra
>
> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
>
> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
>
> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio
>
> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
>
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
>
> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch
>
> *www.supsi.ch/ist *
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo/LocationTech relationship

[María Arias de Reyna]

I answer myself, yes, they filter by name. And explicitly forbid GPL licenses:
https://www.locationtech.org/faq-questions-inline

Which licenses does LocationTech allow?

The following licenses are allowed at LocationTech without special approval:

EPL
EDL (BSD)
MIT
Apache v2

Other licenses might be considered based on approval of the
LocationTech Steering Committee and Eclipse Foundation board.



The following licenses are not allowed at LocationTech:

AGPL
GPL (v2 & v3)


On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:38 AM, María Arias de Reyna
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Are you sure that is a complete list of what the approved licenses are? That
> would be pretty disappointing if they limit by "name" of the license instead
> of by "rights".
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Massimiliano Cannata
>  wrote:
>>
>> Sandro,
>>
>> from https://www.locationtech.org/charter in "IP Management" section:
>>
>> "... The group will follow the Eclipse Foundation's IP due diligence
>> process in order to provide clean open source software released under
>> licenses approved by the group and the Eclipse Foundation Board of
>> Directors. Approved licenses for this group include EPL, MIT, BSD, and
>> Apache 2.0. "
>>
>> So I understand that GPL is not welcome in LocationTech ;-)
>>
>> Maxi
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-11-13 7:49 GMT+01:00 Sandro Santilli :
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:29:59PM +, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>
>>> > I may as well link to my more recent talk (https://vimeo.com/142989259)
>>> > as
>>>
>>> Interesting talk Jody, thank you !
>>>
>>> One thing it wasn't clear to me (I might have dreamt it):
>>> did you say that LocationTech only accept non-copylefted projects
>>> in the foundation ? I think it came out by the very end
>>> of the talk, in response to a question from Luca Delucchi (~30:00)
>>>
>>> I tried browsing the locationtech.org website but found no mention
>>> of this limitation.
>>>
>>> It's confusing, because you early mentioned that projects can be
>>> in both foundations while if that's confirmed projects like PostGIS,
>>> GRASS or QGIS (to name a few) could _not_ be.
>>>
>>> It is interesting that they have dedicated IP stuff, would come to
>>> think the actual goal is to help companies ride the "Open Source" tide
>>> (still big, and still growing) w/out risk of getting wet...
>>>
>>> --strk;
>>> ___
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>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Massimiliano Cannata
>>
>> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
>>
>> Responsabile settore Geomatica
>>
>>
>> Istituto scienze della Terra
>>
>> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
>>
>> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
>>
>> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio
>>
>> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
>>
>> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
>>
>> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch
>>
>> www.supsi.ch/ist
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo/LocationTech relationship

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:41 AM, María Arias de Reyna
 wrote:
> I answer myself, yes, they filter by name. And explicitly forbid GPL licenses:
> https://www.locationtech.org/faq-questions-inline
>
> Which licenses does LocationTech allow?
>
> The following licenses are allowed at LocationTech without special approval:
>
> EPL
> EDL (BSD)
> MIT
> Apache v2
>
> Other licenses might be considered based on approval of the
> LocationTech Steering Committee and Eclipse Foundation board.
>
>
>
> The following licenses are not allowed at LocationTech:
>
> AGPL
> GPL (v2 & v3)
>
>

For me this is a major outrage, but I understand that OSGeo is focused
on open software, not on free software. (Remember: free includes open,
open doesn't include free).

So I would understand collaborations between LocationTech and OSGeo,
where open is the key and not freedom. And we have found a big
difference between both organizations: we are more open and more free.
Maybe they still believe that they cannot do bussiness over GPL
derived licenses. And as wrong as they are, if their main focus is on
bussiness, it is understandable they are afraid of freedom.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo/LocationTech relationship

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi Sandro,

I agree with you. But I understand that people with less experience on
free software are afraid (at the beginning) of freedom. It is a big
step to take from closed software and not everyone is willing/brave
enough to take it. That's why I say that it is understandable. Not
that they are right to think so.

In any case, to me we finally found the main difference between the
two organizations. We can collaborate on the open field and work alone
on the free field.

To me, having other organizations collaborating is a good thing, as
long as we understand the difference and don't merge too much (which
is another possible step, but not something we decided yet to do). I
think that in Spain we have a good example with Geoinquietos, which
shares a lot with OSGeo (some people way it is the "white" brand of
OSGeo in Spain) but still, it's different. So different that in some
regions we have more in common with OSM than with OSGeo.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Sandro Santilli  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 09:45:23AM +0100, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
>> And as wrong as they are, if their main focus is on
>> bussiness, it is understandable they are afraid of freedom.
>
> I disagree on this point.
> I've been make a living out of free software development for over a
> decade now, and I know there are many people doing the same.
>
> Businesses do not need to be afraid of (software) freedom,
> but I can see businesses based on distributing non-free software
> wanting to be sure they can easily find cheap components to build
> their black boxes, and thus offering hosting for such potentially
> exploitable components.
>
> --strk;
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: Nomination of Santiago Higuera

[María Arias de Reyna]

Wait, what? Santiago is still not an osgeo member? How can this be possible?

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vasile Craciunescu
 wrote:
> Forwarding Santiago Higuera nomination by Jorge Sanz.
>
> Best regards,
> Vasile
> 2016 OSGeo Elections CRO
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Nomination of Santiago Higuera
> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:48:01 +0200
> From: Jorge Sanz 
> To: CRO 
> CC: Santiago Higuera 
>
> Dear CRO,
>
> I have confirmation of Santiago Higuera[1] to be nominated for the
> OSGeo Charter Membership.
>
> Santiago is one of the key members of the Spanish Language OSGeo
> community[2] since 2010, currently serving on its Board of Directors.
> Santiago is a truly advocate of Open Source for Geospatial and always
> proactive to share his knowledge in different contexts, including his
> work as a lecturer at the Civil Engineering school at the Polytechnic
> University of Madrid.
>
> He was one of the founders of the Geoinquietos local group in
> Madrid[3] and also in Santander[4] cities in Spain, helping to
> organize different events and activities around OpenStreetMap and
> OSGeo projects.
>
> With this nomination I hope he will renovate and reinforce his
> commitment to the Open Source Geospatial community.
>
> All the best
> Jorge
>
>
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Santiago_Higuera
> [2] http://es.osgeo.org
> [3] http://geoinquietos.org/grupos/madrid/
> [4] http://geoinquietos.org/grupos/cantabria/
>
> --
> Jorge Sanz
> http://www.osgeo.org
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: Nomination for Luigi Pirelli

[María Arias de Reyna]

+1 with no doubt.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Margherita Di Leo  wrote:
> Wholeheartedly second this nomination!!
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Vasile Craciunescu 
> wrote:
>>
>> Forwarding Luigi Pirelli nomination by Yves Jacolin.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Vasile
>> 2016 OSGeo Elections CRO
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to nominate Luigi Pirelli as OSGeo Charter Member.
>>
>> Luigi is an active contributor to QGIS project: plugin developper, doing
>> workshop, co-authoring books and co-founder of GFOSS.it.
>>
>> He shares our OSGeo spirit!
>>
>> See his linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luigipirelli/fr
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Y.
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Margherita Di Leo
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Election 2016] Nominations reminder and campaign proposal

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I think campaining a week is a good idea. But as an interested party,
maybe it is better to let others decide :)

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Jorge Sanz  wrote:
> Dear OSGeo community and charter members
>
> This is a reminder that there's still some days for nominations to the
> Board of Directors elections. We have already nine great candidates,
> including all the present Board members running for re-election. Take
> a look at [1] for an overview of the nominations and support
> expressions. Maybe there's a candidate that is worth your support or
> someone special that you think should run to join our Board?
>
> The other point of this email is to follow up with Gert-Jan
> proposal[2] to put a week between the nominations period and the
> actual voting to let candidates to express their intentions for their
> term.
>
> I'm inclined to accept it because I think is a good idea and no one
> has opposed but also because next week I'll be out of the office for
> the GEOSTAT course first here in Spain (20/21) and SoTM in Brussels
> (22/26) later and I'll be pretty busy.
>
> What do you think? Looking forward for your opinions.
>
> All the best
> Jorge
> CRO 2016
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2016
> [2] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2016-September/016606.html
>
> --
> Jorge Sanz
> http://www.osgeo.org
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Campaign Statement for María Arias de Reyna

[María Arias de Reyna]

So, let's try to answer the main question:

 "What should the community expect from my board membership?"


I am a very active activist :) More known on the spanish speaking
geo-world, I would say. I work with spatial metadata and GeoNetwork.

I intend to make OSGeo as inclusive and free (as in free puppies) as
possible. I want OSGeo to continue being transparent, comfortable and
useful to promote FLOSS in the geo world. I would like to press on
public administrations so they promote open data and software. I would
like to increase diversity of OSGeo (because, you already notice, most
of you are white men on developed countries with a similar vision, you
know).

Anyway, all the candidates proposed are really good. So, whoever you
choose to vote, you will make a good choice. But vote, be involved,
please :)


Many of you don't know me, I know. Maybe if I say "metadata" and
"(meta)cat" some bell will ring. Maybe not. Let me talk you a bit
about me, let's put humility aside for a moment.

I work for GeoCat, which you *should* remember from sponsoring many
geo-events. I work with metadata. Ever heard of GeoNetwork, the data
catalog? Well, that's part of my work. I am also part of the
geoinquietos group, which is one of the most active group in the
spanish speaking geo-world. We are a very unorganized welcoming group
that tries to make geothings fun. Unconferences, mapping parties,
geobeers, workshops,... Anything we can enjoy while sharing our
knowledge and help people around us.

Some people say I'm very straight forward when talking. I can't help
it. I don't like dancing around an idea losing time while the elephant
sits on the center of the room eating all the peanuts. So this I can
assure you: I will fight for what I think is better, even if it means
making me look unpolite or the "bad cop". I'm used to get my hands
dirty, I don't care. And if OSGeo decides to do something I don't
agree with, I promise you I will fight the same (unless it makes me so
uncomfortable I have to step down, but I don't think this can happen,
we share the same goals). It will not be the first time I have to
defend something I don't fully agree with. But, anyway, unless OSGeo
changes a lot, this is not bothering me.

To me, transparency is key. You will never hear me saying opposite
things in private and in public. I will not say things in public I
understand they shouldn't be made public. But you will never hear me
defend something in private and another thing in public. I can change
my mind, of course, and that happens more often than what I am willing
to admit :) But I will not be a hypocrit and I usually have no problem
in sharing my knowledge or perspective on something. I don't like
being manipulative. I don't like lies. I don't think the end justifies
the means.

Let's focus on OSGeo and how I see it. As we heard on the FOSS4G: This
is about people. And I couldn't agree more. I see OSGeo as an
organization built on top of regional chapters which are built on top
of local "chapters" which are built by people. So my idea of OSGeo is
like a pyramid, where local "layers" work together to get the same
goal at the top. "Think globally, act locally". And that's how I think
it should work. Spread the work into very small pieces so we all can
contribute to a greater good. I think this is how we should always
work.

So I think it is important to promote small events all around the
world. Specially if they focus on target groups we are not very close
to. I would like to see more diversity in the OSGeo membership, we are
all very "standard". As we diversify our base, we will get better
ideas and visions on the top. On my utopic OSGeo vision, there will be
a group of local "geoinquietos" everywhere, all of them making the
world better while having fun.

Changing the subject to something more earthly: I see there is some
buzzing around LocationTech. To me, they are important allies. They
are more "open" and we are more "free", but as we agree on, let's say,
80% of the goals, why not work together on that 80%? Once we achieve
those goals we can start an open war about that 20%. In the meantime,
it would be stupid to fight.

If you don't understand why I distinguish between open and free, here
is the answer:
http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/misc/openstreetmap/FOSS4G-2016/foss4g-2016-1106-free_open_and_libre-hd.webm
Yes, that's me. Now you know my face too :)

I think this is it. I hope to have convinced you to vote for me. If
not, well, I will have to focus more on the "lower" layers of the
pyramid.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Campaign Statement for María Arias de Reyna

[María Arias de Reyna]

Another thing you should know about me: I am never happy with my emails and
continue correcting them even after sent. On the wiki you will always find
the latest version of this statement.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Campaign Statement for María Arias de Reyna

[María Arias de Reyna]

Thanks :) you will make me blush

El 24 sept. 2016 23:13, "Santiago Higuera"  escribió:

> Thanks, María, you are a very good candidate, I know, perhaps the best.
> I would like also there were more women as OSGeo members and leaders.
>
> Regards
>
> Santiago Higuera
>
> El sáb, 24-09-2016 a las 20:31 +0200, María Arias de Reyna escribió:
> > Another thing you should know about me: I am never happy with my
> > emails and continue correcting them even after sent. On the wiki you
> > will always find the latest version of this statement.
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Campaign Statement for María Arias de Reyna

[María Arias de Reyna]

Thanks Rob. This is very reassuring.

El 24 sept. 2016 23:33, "Rob Emanuele"  escribió:

> Hi María,
>
> I'm not a charter member, so don't get to vote; however I do participate
> in the OSGeo and FOSS4G world, and I just want to publicly share that your
> statement really resonates with me. Though we have never met, it seems
> clear to me from your statement that you have vision, honesty, and are
> considerate of what is truly important in our communities. I also agree
> with all of the views you mention. If I were able to vote, you would have
> mine :)
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 2:23 PM, María Arias de Reyna <
> delawen+os...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So, let's try to answer the main question:
>>
>>  "What should the community expect from my board membership?"
>>
>> 
>> I am a very active activist :) More known on the spanish speaking
>> geo-world, I would say. I work with spatial metadata and GeoNetwork.
>>
>> I intend to make OSGeo as inclusive and free (as in free puppies) as
>> possible. I want OSGeo to continue being transparent, comfortable and
>> useful to promote FLOSS in the geo world. I would like to press on
>> public administrations so they promote open data and software. I would
>> like to increase diversity of OSGeo (because, you already notice, most
>> of you are white men on developed countries with a similar vision, you
>> know).
>>
>> Anyway, all the candidates proposed are really good. So, whoever you
>> choose to vote, you will make a good choice. But vote, be involved,
>> please :)
>> 
>>
>> Many of you don't know me, I know. Maybe if I say "metadata" and
>> "(meta)cat" some bell will ring. Maybe not. Let me talk you a bit
>> about me, let's put humility aside for a moment.
>>
>> I work for GeoCat, which you *should* remember from sponsoring many
>> geo-events. I work with metadata. Ever heard of GeoNetwork, the data
>> catalog? Well, that's part of my work. I am also part of the
>> geoinquietos group, which is one of the most active group in the
>> spanish speaking geo-world. We are a very unorganized welcoming group
>> that tries to make geothings fun. Unconferences, mapping parties,
>> geobeers, workshops,... Anything we can enjoy while sharing our
>> knowledge and help people around us.
>>
>> Some people say I'm very straight forward when talking. I can't help
>> it. I don't like dancing around an idea losing time while the elephant
>> sits on the center of the room eating all the peanuts. So this I can
>> assure you: I will fight for what I think is better, even if it means
>> making me look unpolite or the "bad cop". I'm used to get my hands
>> dirty, I don't care. And if OSGeo decides to do something I don't
>> agree with, I promise you I will fight the same (unless it makes me so
>> uncomfortable I have to step down, but I don't think this can happen,
>> we share the same goals). It will not be the first time I have to
>> defend something I don't fully agree with. But, anyway, unless OSGeo
>> changes a lot, this is not bothering me.
>>
>> To me, transparency is key. You will never hear me saying opposite
>> things in private and in public. I will not say things in public I
>> understand they shouldn't be made public. But you will never hear me
>> defend something in private and another thing in public. I can change
>> my mind, of course, and that happens more often than what I am willing
>> to admit :) But I will not be a hypocrit and I usually have no problem
>> in sharing my knowledge or perspective on something. I don't like
>> being manipulative. I don't like lies. I don't think the end justifies
>> the means.
>>
>> Let's focus on OSGeo and how I see it. As we heard on the FOSS4G: This
>> is about people. And I couldn't agree more. I see OSGeo as an
>> organization built on top of regional chapters which are built on top
>> of local "chapters" which are built by people. So my idea of OSGeo is
>> like a pyramid, where local "layers" work together to get the same
>> goal at the top. "Think globally, act locally". And that's how I think
>> it should work. Spread the work into very small pieces so we all can
>> contribute to a greater good. I think this is how we should always
>> work.
>>
>> So I think it is important to promote small events all around the
>> world. Specially if they focus on target groups we are not very c

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Candidate Statement for Jeffrey Johnson

[María Arias de Reyna]

I think it is a bit difficult at this point,  but if you can find a way,
I'm in.

El 26 sept. 2016 15:53, "Jorge Sanz"  escribió:

> On 25 September 2016 at 20:46, Jeffrey Johnson  wrote:
> > IRC would be easiest, but a little less 'real-time'. I'd be happy to
> > participate anywhere/any time we could reach a critical mass of
> > participants both from the candidates and community.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Sandro Santilli  wrote:
> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 08:59:05AM -0700, Jeffrey Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Happy to answer any questions here or via other channels. Can we have
> >>> a hangout 'debate'? :)
> >>
> >> If you do, please use a free software alternative, not "hangout".
> >> Here's one: https://meet.jit.si/osgeo
> >>
> >> Or even better (requires less resources to partecipate):
> >>   irc://irc.freenode.net/#osgeo
> >>   also accessible (same place) as:
> >>   https://webchat.freenode.net/#osgeo
> >>   or
> >>   https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#osgeo
> >>
> >> --strk;
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> HI,
>
> I can help on organizing this, no problem.
>
> But we need support from the rest of the candidates, since it wasn't
> planned and can be challenging with the different timezones but since
> it's just US/Europe, it's doable.
>
> What other candidates think? Personally I'm fine with the nominations
> + manifestos but if you think an open discussion is worth I'm glad to
> do it ASAP.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Jorge Sanz
> http://www.osgeo.org
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Election 2016] Board of Directors elections results

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Jorge Sanz  wrote:
> Dear OSGeo community,
>
> These are the results from the 2016 elections[1] for the 4 open
> seats[2]  of the OSGeo Board of Directors. The results in alphabetical
> order are:
>
> * Angelos Tzotsos
> * Maria Antonia Brovelli
> * Michael Smith
> * Vasile Craciunescu
>
> Thanks to all candidates to oging through the elections process.
> Election figures are:
>
> * 78.8% participation (246 of 312)
> * 6 incomplete responses
> * 60 members not opened the voting
>
> There were no scores to arbitrate. Thank you all who voted!!
>
> The complete resulting Board for 2016/2017 is:
>
> * Angelos Tzotsos
> * Anita Graser
> * Helena Mitasova
> * Jody Garnett
> * Maria Antonia Brovelli
> * Michael Smith
> * Sanghee Shin
> * Vasile Craciunescu
> * Venkatesh Raghavan
>
> Maybe it's my impression but is not the most diverse Board we've had?
> Anyway, I will update the wiki pages for the Board of Directors ASAP.
>
> Please congratulate the new OSGeo Directors!
>
> A warm thank you for the outgoing Directors Maxi and Dirk for all your
> efforts for the Foundation, looking forward to keep seeing your hard
> work for the community in many other fronts.
>
> My job as CRO is almost finished now, I will update the wiki with the
> detailed results[3] as soon as possible. I want to give a big thank
> you to everyone for your cooperation but specially to Jeff McKenna for
> his always close look to all my actions fixing small issues and taking
> care of the job when I was absent. I will open a separate thread for a
> couple of discussions about this process and also a small
> retrospective and lessons learnt.
>
> Kind regards
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2016
> [2] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2016
> [3] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Election_2016_Results
>
> --
> Jorge Sanz
> http://www.osgeo.org
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz
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Congratulations

I like how the board looks now :)
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Local chapter event planning (Ireland)

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Seth G  wrote:
> A question which is not answered in the above is what other local chapters
> do with regards to financing these events. We need to book a hotel
> conference suite - do most chapter's create bank accounts? Or do the
> organisers pay costs directly?
>
> Also what happens if there is a shortfall in funds (I'm guessing the event
> is cancelled or the organisers make up the difference), or alternatively a
> surplus?

On the events I have collaborated in Spain, we usually ask for some
sponsorship or donations. To make sure we all know this is not for
making money, sometimes we make the companies pay directly for some
things instead of having us in the middle. That way we don't have
shortfall or surpluses or even have to worry about bank accounts.

Also, we go for cheap. At least in Spain there are a lot of social
places (public or from other organizations) you can book for free or
for a small fee if you do a public and free event. So we only have to
take care of food and drinks, if any.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is it possible for properitery GIS vendor to market thier properitery product as Open ?

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 2:52 AM, Jody Garnett 
wrote:

> Considering android is marketed as open, yes this is possible in our
> industry as well :)
>

Android is open: https://source.android.com/source/downloading.html

You can download the code, modify it, build it, use it and redistribute it.
Some versions of Android may have private drivers or extensions, but
Android itself is open. And free.

https://source.android.com/source/licenses.html#android-open-source-project-license


Keep in mind we have several definitions of "open", even "open source" does
> not match the same meaning of open advocated by the free software
> foundation.
>
> In our industry specifically we have open standards, allowing many
> proprietary (and open source) products to be marketed as "open" (in the
> sense that they support a standard allowing integration in a larger
> systems).
>


>From my perspective, that's perverting a very clear definition of open. We
all had a very plain and specific meaning of open until some companies
started to pervert it for their own evil purposes.


*What's in a name? that which we call a roseBy any other name would smell
as sweet;*

That which we call closed software will still stink as closed, even if you
call  it open.


>
> By the same token a proprietary vendor can define an API with license
> terms allowing customers and third-party vendors to create additional
> functionality that extends their software. This is the meaning of "open
> platform" I think you are referring to. There is a lot more meaning behind
> "open platform" though, ideally you have a way for those third-party
> vendors to turn a profit thus motivating their continued participation in
> your platform.
>

That's not an open platform. That's having an accesible API for you
services. Please, do not confuse the terms.


This is a rough-and-tumble competition - we can no longer use the short
> hand "open" to capture what we do here at OSGeo. We are going to have to
> wade into these debates with a strong story and clear examples from our
> community.  We should also expect platforms to be built up around our open
> source projects (say Carto being built around PostGIS). This is a great way
> to ensure these projects stay  viable, as long as we keep everyone involved
> sufficiently encouraged/valued/funded.
>
> Oh and to answer your question, the mislead customers may of confused
> "open source" with "open platform". If we want the distinction clear in the
> market we need to use organizations such as OSGeo to push that messag
>

I strongly disagree. We should use the word free as much as we can to get
our space back, but also we should enfoce recovering the real meaning of
open. Because leaving "open" to this false open software advocators will
mean losing an important battle. The next thing will be not being able to
call open to things that are also free.

This is for our own good: if we leave "open" become dirty, we will have
problems even when trying to explain to our customers why open software is
better than closed software.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is it possible for properitery GIS vendor to market thier properitery product as Open ?

[María Arias de Reyna]

So, to make it clear:

 * Being interoperable (using open standards) does not mean being open
 * Having an API open to third party developers does not mean being open
 * Using libraries that are open in your source code does not mean being
open
 * Having a good documentation does not mean being open

A company can try to use the word "open" to market but that's just
openwashing. Just like when a food company tries to advertise something as
healthy just because it has like 0,1% of something that is healthy
(according to EU laws, that's legal). You can use the word "open" and maybe
it is legal (or maybe not?), but that doesn't mean you are not lying.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:32 AM, María Arias de Reyna <
delawen+os...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 2:52 AM, Jody Garnett 
> wrote:
>
>> Considering android is marketed as open, yes this is possible in our
>> industry as well :)
>>
>
> Android is open: https://source.android.com/source/downloading.html
>
> You can download the code, modify it, build it, use it and redistribute
> it. Some versions of Android may have private drivers or extensions, but
> Android itself is open. And free.
>
> https://source.android.com/source/licenses.html#android-
> open-source-project-license
>
>
> Keep in mind we have several definitions of "open", even "open source"
>> does not match the same meaning of open advocated by the free software
>> foundation.
>>
>> In our industry specifically we have open standards, allowing many
>> proprietary (and open source) products to be marketed as "open" (in the
>> sense that they support a standard allowing integration in a larger
>> systems).
>>
>
>
> From my perspective, that's perverting a very clear definition of open. We
> all had a very plain and specific meaning of open until some companies
> started to pervert it for their own evil purposes.
>
>
> *What's in a name? that which we call a roseBy any other name would smell
> as sweet;*
>
> That which we call closed software will still stink as closed, even if you
> call  it open.
>
>
>>
>> By the same token a proprietary vendor can define an API with license
>> terms allowing customers and third-party vendors to create additional
>> functionality that extends their software. This is the meaning of "open
>> platform" I think you are referring to. There is a lot more meaning behind
>> "open platform" though, ideally you have a way for those third-party
>> vendors to turn a profit thus motivating their continued participation in
>> your platform.
>>
>
> That's not an open platform. That's having an accesible API for you
> services. Please, do not confuse the terms.
>
>
> This is a rough-and-tumble competition - we can no longer use the short
>> hand "open" to capture what we do here at OSGeo. We are going to have to
>> wade into these debates with a strong story and clear examples from our
>> community.  We should also expect platforms to be built up around our open
>> source projects (say Carto being built around PostGIS). This is a great way
>> to ensure these projects stay  viable, as long as we keep everyone involved
>> sufficiently encouraged/valued/funded.
>>
>> Oh and to answer your question, the mislead customers may of confused
>> "open source" with "open platform". If we want the distinction clear in the
>> market we need to use organizations such as OSGeo to push that messag
>>
>
> I strongly disagree. We should use the word free as much as we can to get
> our space back, but also we should enfoce recovering the real meaning of
> open. Because leaving "open" to this false open software advocators will
> mean losing an important battle. The next thing will be not being able to
> call open to things that are also free.
>
> This is for our own good: if we leave "open" become dirty, we will have
> problems even when trying to explain to our customers why open software is
> better than closed software.
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is it possible for properitery GIS vendor to market thier properitery product as Open ?

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:32 AM, María Arias de Reyna <
delawen+os...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a rough-and-tumble competition - we can no longer use the short
>> hand "open" to capture what we do here at OSGeo. We are going to have to
>> wade into these debates with a strong story and clear examples from our
>> community.  We should also expect platforms to be built up around our open
>> source projects (say Carto being built around PostGIS). This is a great way
>> to ensure these projects stay  viable, as long as we keep everyone involved
>> sufficiently encouraged/valued/funded.
>>
>> Oh and to answer your question, the mislead customers may of confused
>> "open source" with "open platform". If we want the distinction clear in the
>> market we need to use organizations such as OSGeo to push that messag
>>
>
> I strongly disagree. We should use the word free as much as we can to get
> our space back, but also we should enfoce recovering the real meaning of
> open. Because leaving "open" to this false open software advocators will
> mean losing an important battle. The next thing will be not being able to
> call open to things that are also free.
>

Maybe this part was not clear enough. I disagree that we can't use the word
"open" to capture what we do. I think we can and should do. And point
everywhere were it is not being correctly used. Being active here is
important *now*, while we still have the meaning not completely perverted
and the companies that do openwashing still play with the idea that they
are "open" in the real sense.


(btw: most of Carto is also open software: https://github.com/CartoDB maybe
not a good example of a closed wrapper over an open software.)
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is it possible for properitery GIS vendor to market thier properitery product as Open ?

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Luí­s Moreira de Sousa <
luis.de.so...@protonmail.ch> wrote:

>
> I believe we need a regulatory framework for "open source" labelling;
> something like the EU regulation 1169/2011 [2] for organic farming. It not
> only sets the criteria for farmers to label their products, as it actively
> prevents others from falsely claiming to that criteria.
>


+1 Restarting the movement for the european chapter to be able to lobby for
this...
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Gentle reminder reg: Project selection on the new website draft

[María Arias de Reyna]

Are you sure ordering by rank is a good idea (whatever the rank is)?
That leaves small projects behind...

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Jeffrey Johnson  wrote:
> I should also point out that it has been suggested that we have a way
> to 'rank' projects in these pages somehow that indicates their
> popularity ... for instance when we have a page of all OSGeo projects
> like the one linked below. Perhaps we can use the number of GitHub
> stars or some objective metric to accomplish this?
>
> http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/choose-a-project/mapping-and-cartography/desktop-mapping/
>
> Also, we have alot of work to do to make the "Choose a Project" wizard
> work properly, but its one part of the site that is *very* important
> to us. Please keep an eye on this section and we encourage feedback
> ... but understand its not working to our satisfaction yet either.
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Johnson  wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Moritz Lennert
>>  wrote:
>>> On 16/08/17 15:29, Jeffrey Johnson wrote:

 Note that several of these issues are on the list to be discussed with
 the vendor today.

 There is also the issue of actual OSGeo projects that simply havent
 responded to various requests for input. I've had to just add them in
 myself so they are there and can be hooked up to the choose a project
 wizard. What do we do about projects that have simply atrophied, but
 are still considered OSGeo projects?

 I *really* want us to adopt the mantra of "Bigger tent, more
 people/groups/projects under it" ... Small tent thinking wont get us
 very far.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that I've read a lot of small tent thinking. Most comments were
>>> about priorities in the way projects are displayed on the OSGeo website, not
>>> about excluding non-OSGeo (understood here as projects that have not
>>> undergone a formal process to be labeled) projects from the website.
>>>
>>> I agree that the current website does not correspond to what I would expect.
>>> I also am guilty of not having reacted earlier (although you have to admit
>>> that the actual form of the website with actual project descriptions has
>>> only been available to us in the last days). I personally would also plead
>>> for highlighting OSGeo projects more than what the current form does.
>>
>> Again, this is the very first item on the list for our meeting in 15
>> minutes with the vendor.
>>
>> One technical thing to note. For some reason the 'cards' on the
>> homepage do NOT yet show the badge for the type of project, but the
>> final pages of the Choose a project Wizard do. Check these 2 pages to
>> see what I mean.
>>
>> http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/projects/
>> http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/choose-a-project/publish/content-management/
>>
>> Note the latter has the badge in the upper right corner.
>>
>> We will get these badges on the main projects pages ASAP today and
>> that should help further the conversation.
>>
>>
>>> This does not diminish in any way my profound respect and awe in front of
>>> what the team has been able to pull off. I think the reactions on the list
>>> just show how important this work is for everyone !
>>>
>>> Moritz
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Richard Stallman's keynote at FOSS4G-Boston today

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Aug 17, 2017 9:12 AM, "Venkatesh Raghavan" 
wrote:


Had he not insisted (and made me realize the importance) in adding "Free"
when he agreed to write his message, our conference would perhaps
taken some other name.


Good thing then he insisted!! Free is what separates us from chaos :)
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proposal for the listing of projects in our new web site

[María Arias de Reyna]

Makes sense. So you can see on the service providers who are the ones
with more contributors.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Jachym Cepicky
 wrote:
> Eh, new idea just came to my mind: What about adding possibility to assign
> people to service providers (companies in general) as we can assign to
> projects? After all, it's all about people, isn't it?
>
> Again, maybe it is in cotradiction with some principle, I'm missing
>
> J
>
> út 22. 8. 2017 v 2:58 odesílatel Jeffrey Johnson 
> napsal:
>>
>> Note the news section is intended for news related to a specific
>> service provider. Its *not* doing this now, so its unclear.
>>
>> Can you file an issue about the search. Agree this should work for a
>> project name here.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Jachym Cepicky
>>  wrote:
>> > hi,
>> >
>> > yes for me (OpenGeoLabs) it works as it is now - we are listed, we have
>> > links to projects we can support, there is logo, picture, web page, once
>> > it
>> > works, we are gonna be on the map, what could I possibly ask for more?
>> > (if
>> > the graphics around "News" will be made more clear)
>> >
>> > side note: maybe adding note, that if you are searching for specifing
>> > service provider related to project, you should go to project page and
>> > find
>> > the service providers there, since search "geoserver" does not return
>> > any
>> > result at this page
>> >
>> > J
>> >
>> >
>> > út 22. 8. 2017 v 1:24 odesílatel Jody Garnett 
>> > napsal:
>> >>
>> >> Jeff have you heard from any small companies that feel alienated? For
>> >> many
>> >> being a small company gives them a chance to offer personal service. I
>> >> do
>> >> not want to make assumptions if we can help it.
>> >>
>> >> My feedback was actually focused on the site design, partnership &
>> >> friend
>> >> relationships are appropriate for government and NGOs, geoforall labs
>> >> are
>> >> the appropriate relationship for education and science etc. If that is
>> >> clear
>> >> we can return to the earlier discussion - specifically about service
>> >> provider size. (we should also be sure to capture this discussion on
>> >> the
>> >> issue tracker so it can actually inform the review of the website).
>> >>
>> >> Many of these decisions already took place during the earlier wireframe
>> >> stage of the project (by contributors who stepped up to the marketing
>> >> committee). We already went back to the drawing table on some of the
>> >> key
>> >> decisions during wire framing and initial website design.
>> >>
>> >> To clearly set expectations - we will not have a chance to revisit each
>> >> and every decision due to limitations on time/budget. It is hard
>> >> though,
>> >> because it is much easier to care about a website when it is pretty and
>> >> we
>> >> can all see it :)
>> >>
>> >> My initial message to Jachym was trying to confirm that the
>> >> organization
>> >> size worked for opengeolabs (simply because this was already a decision
>> >> that
>> >> had been revisited once).
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:09 PM Jeff McKenna
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Jody,
>> >>>
>> >>> By alienating the smaller OSGeo companies in our new website, I don't
>> >>> see a benefit to OSGeo at all.  Let us please all sizes of OSGeo
>> >>> companies, small and big.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes this is tricky, for sure, even your initial message to Jachym
>> >>> shows
>> >>> a lot of what it could be like, if OSGeo suddenly distinguishes size.
>> >>> Let's avoid this totally, I believe.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am open to other suggestions to the wording as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> Tricky!  :)
>> >>>
>> >>> -jeff
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2017-08-21 6:53 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>> >>> > I already changed it from number to the size thing.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This list was for support providers (since the website is about
>> >>> > outreach
>> >>> > looks at projects, local chapters and service providers).
>> >>> >
>> >>> > GeoForAll labs and academic / research outreach are in slightly
>> >>> > different spot (we could cross link). See
>> >>> > http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/geo-for-all-labs/
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I do not think public:government, NGO/non-profit would like to be
>> >>> > contacted for commercial support :) That said they can be listed in
>> >>> > our
>> >>> > site as partners and friends. Sort order is given to groups with a
>> >>> > defined relationship with OSGeo (such as ISPRS, LocationTech,...).
>> >>> > See
>> >>> > http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/partners/
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Recognizing service providers on our website in this way is a new
>> >>> > thing
>> >>> > - I hope it works out :)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This design is full of difficult decisions thanks for contributing
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > the discussion (and content).
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 3:30 PM Jeff McKenna
>> >>> > > >>> > >
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Hi Jachym,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Yes I agree, it is a sl

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination to reinstate Bart van den Eijnden as an OSGeo charter member

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I thought you had to send the email to the cro who later forwards it
to the discussion list. Am I doing it wrong?

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Angelos Tzotsos  wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to nominate Bart van den Eijnden to return to his charter
> member status.
> Bart is a valuable member of the OSGeo family, has served as a Board member
> in the past and I am honored to propose his return.
>
> Best,
> Angelos
>
> --
> Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
> OSGeo Charter Member
> http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: Nomination of Steven Ottens

[María Arias de Reyna]

+1

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Vasile Craciunescu
 wrote:
> Forwarding Steven Ottens nomination by Volker Mische. The 2017 member
> nominations list will be updated ASAP [1].
>
> Best regards,
> Vasile & Jeff
> 2017 OSGeo Elections CROs
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/New_Member_Nominations_2017
>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Nomination of Steven Ottens
> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 15:50:42 +0200
> From: Volker Mische 
> To: c...@osgeo.org
> CC: Steven Ottens 
>
> I'd like to nominate Steven Ottens as OSGeo Charter Member. He is a long
> time member of the community, founder and former board member of the
> OSGeo Dutch language chapter. He gave talks and workshops at several
> FOSS4Gs and also contributed to projects like OpenLayers, MapBuilder and
> MapQuery.
>
> Cheers,
>   Volker
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: Charter member nomination: Lyzi Diamond

[María Arias de Reyna]

+1

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Vasile Craciunescu
 wrote:
> Forwarding Lyzi Diamond nomination by Sara Safavi. The 2017 member
> nominations list was updated [1].
>
> Best regards,
> Vasile & Jeff
> 2017 OSGeo Elections CROs
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/New_Member_Nominations_2017
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:Charter member nomination: Lyzi Diamond
> Date:   Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:27:36 -0500
> From:   Sara Safavi 
> To: Vasile Craciunescu , OSGeo Chief Returning
> Officer 
>
>
>
> Nominee: Lyzi Diamond, lyzidiam...@gmail.com 
> - USA
>
> I would like to nominate Lyzi Diamond for OSGeo charter membership. Lyzi is
> an engineer and an educator, and a great contributor to the open source geo
> community on both fronts. With her work as co-founder of the international
> phenomenon, Maptime (maptime.io ), Lyzi gained
> recognition as a community leader dedicated to bringing cartography,
> geospatial technology, and mapping education to everyone. Since then she has
> continued to work towards making geo-related information more accessible to
> all. I often find myself referencing, and referring others, to Lyzi's blog
> posts, articles, tutorials, and talks as excellent resources.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Membership process & email

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Sep 8, 2017 6:46 PM, "Massimiliano Cannata" <
massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote:

Why not just nominate people on the list but collect seconding on online
system, like a form? SImilar to those for voting presentation at foss4g!!!


In previous years it was like this and people still flood with +1. Also,
this year people were sending proposals directly to the list instead of to
the cro.

We are rebels by nature. People will still send things to the list.



Cheers
Maxi

2017-09-08 17:56 GMT+02:00 Jody Garnett :

> The other point in favour of email is the discussion aspect, with the
> board only reviewing -1 votes we are relying our the discussion list to
> review candidates.
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 8 September 2017 at 07:36, Jorge Sanz  wrote:
>
>> Agree, I don't think I'd like a nomination period + election being
>> carried on with some editings in the wiki and a silent mailing list except
>> by some announcements.
>>
>> On the other hand, answering with a +1 on a mailing list is quick and
>> easy (and annoying if you don't use filters on your email).
>>
>> The off list option, like adding a comment on the wiki, (IMO) would be
>> followed by fewer people and read by even fewer people. We are all lazy by
>> nature, and an election process is not the most exciting activity we do.
>>
>> I agree the process can be improved, but when thinking about election
>> procedures, as boring as they are, we need to put the reduction of
>> participation barriers as a top priority if we want to reach the broadest
>> audience, at least once per year.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm super happy to see such a big number of nominations, and I
>> want to thank Vasile for the hard work and long hours he's dedicating to
>> try to cup with such a demonstration of enthusiasm.
>>
>> My 2 cents
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 September 2017 at 15:15, Volker Mische 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think it's valuable to have the nominations being sent to the discuss
>>> list, but I agree that seconding them should be off list.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>   Volker
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/08/2017 01:01 PM, brandon whitehead wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > A potentially trivial change would be to keep the process the same, but
>>> > run through the wiki---i.e. use a wiki page as the venue for nominators
>>> > to log in and update/edit.  Freeze the page after a certain date, and
>>> > now there's an archived copy of the process.  Anyone interested in
>>> > real-time updates can simply log in and "follow" the page, others can
>>> > visit the page and check the results as they see fit.
>>> >
>>> > Note, this is conceptually the same process for nomination and voting,
>>> > but it is collated via the wiki instead of email.  This also doesn't
>>> > involve additional work to create an automated system.
>>> >
>>> > just a few thoughts from an interested lurker...
>>> > /Brandon
>>> >
>>> > On 08/09/2017 11:34, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> There was a discussion with the CROs at yesterday's board meeting,
>>> and a
>>> >> proposal to use an automated system for nominations came up.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> Angelos
>>> >>
>>> >> On 09/08/2017 01:01 PM, Till Adams wrote:
>>> >>> Jeroen,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> good motion! I feel the same and honestly am not able to read and
>>> check
>>> >>> them all...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Till
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Am 08.09.2017 um 11:54 schrieb Jeroen Ticheler:
>>>  Hi all,
>>>  It is great to see the OSGeo community being so active and
>>> expanding!
>>>  The process of proposing and voting new members is an extremely
>>>  valuable part of that!
>>> 
>>>  The downside is that email traffic is exploding around this
>>> election.
>>>  I fear the election processes in the coming years already. Should we
>>>  find another way so propose and second nominees in the future to
>>>  avoid flooding everyones inbox? (For me these emails seem to make up
>>>  for about half of my email traffic over the last weeks ;-( ).
>>> 
>>>  Cheers,
>>>  Jeroen
>>>  ___
>>>  Discuss mailing list
>>>  Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>>  https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >>> ___
>>> >>> Discuss mailing list
>>> >>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> >>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Discuss mailing list
>>> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jorge Sanz
>> http://www.osgeo.org
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz
>>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

[María Arias de Reyna]

>> On 20 September 2017 at 02:41, Helmut Kudrnovsky  wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear OSGeo community
>>>
>>> I want to bring you a discussion on a github ticket about linking to
>>> "similar proprietary products" [1] to your attention.
>>>
>>> My comment there:
>>>
>>> "I support and concur with Venka that the item "Similar Proprietary
>>> Products" should be removed. There isn't only one proprietary GIS software
>>> out there, there are several others. IMHO such comparisons may be part of
>>> e.g. a reviewed scientific paper/elaboration, where our OSGeo projects - if
>>> they want to - may link to. I see no added value for OSGeo to serve such
>>> links. As already elsewhere mentioned by me, reciprocity is the key if such
>>> items are listed, but I can't see this happen. "
>>>
>>> I'm pretty much convinced that more effort to help our OSGeo projects
>>> improving on every level (e.g. documentation, reach out, testing, etc) is
>>> the key rather than linking to proprietary software. One of such
>>> opportunities may be the upcoming Google Code In (GCI) 2017 e.g. to produce
>>> nice screenshots for documentation, produce some fancy videos etc. based on
>>> tiny little tasks for students aged 13 to 17. A good invest in the young who
>>> will be our OSGeo's future.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>> Helmut
>>> OSGeo charter member
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/OSGeo/osgeo/issues/100
>>> [2] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2017-September/036217.html
>>> ___
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>>


Hi,

On my opinion, it makes sense to show relation between propietary and
free and open software. Just because we want to people to migrate to
free and open source software, so it is good if they can search for
the software they are currently using to know what software will they
use. It makes sense, it makes life easier on migrations.

Said this, I prefer the "Migrate from" label much better. And sure, no
link to the product, just the name. Why would we need a link? If they
don't know what that software is, the information is useless to them.
If they already know what that software is, the information is
redundant. So having a name is fine, having a link is nonsense.

Is "Migrate from" label aggresive? Not at all. We are OsGeo, we are
promoting FLOSS. Promoting FLOSS means we are encouraging people to
move from propietary to open. That is our philosophy, that is our
motto. If propietary software feels bad because we follow our goals...
well, then maybe they should stop promoting their own software too
because that makes me feel bad.

Regards,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Helmut Kudrnovsky  wrote:
> Moreover I wonder that no one react on my main sentence:
>
> "I'm pretty much convinced that more effort to help our OSGeo projects
> improving on every level (e.g. documentation, reach out, testing, etc) is
> the key rather than linking to proprietary software. One of such
> opportunities may be the upcoming Google Code In (GCI) 2017 e.g. to produce
> nice screenshots for documentation, produce some fancy videos etc. based on
> tiny little tasks for students aged 13 to 17. A good invest in the young who
> will be our OSGeo's future."


I didn't react to that because I see this conclusion as obviously good
as you see it :) I am not sure if that is the intended purpose of this
type of programs (shouldn't they code?) but for sure, showcases videos
and tutorials are very nice for promoting the software.

In fact, publishing blog posts comparing closed and FLOSS is also very
helpful. If you are doubting what kind of software to use, a good
comparison with table feature comparisons is very handy But that
should be outside the project page, because we are not begging for
users. We are strong projects on our own, we don't need to keep
continuously comparing to the closed alternatives for users to know
what we do.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Sandro Santilli  wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 08:33:05PM -0700, Jody Garnett wrote:
>
>> How much of your initial concern was providing a link? Or is it just
>> displaying the name (switching to MapInfo for the example here). It would
>> be kind of nice if the it behaved like a keyword, and linked to the project
>> page short listing all the projects that one can migrate to from MapInfo.
>
> It's different degrees of annoyance. I guess a brand-less and
> link-less list of names of proprietary products would not be too
> "offensive" for me (assuming spam filtering lets it pass) but I'd
> still prefer an hidden keyword. Something that you never see written
> but is recognized by the search engine to give you back a similar
> software: you search for  you get .
>
> The "like Photoshop, only better" motto I like even when it contains
> the name because it explicitly bashes it :)

That would work very good if we use for example google ads. But still,
for people who are lookiing for "how to migrate to FLOSS", a
non-linked name could be useful. I mean: they exist, they are there,
they are a fact. We don't need to promote them to be able to say "if
you already use this, you can move to this".

And now I realize I put a link on the GeoNetwork page just because I
copypasted from another project :) Bad María, bad.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Andy Turner  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It is possible to come up with a set of tasks and tests used to confirm and 
> classify what software are capable of. Working out what is included and how 
> this is included is non-trivial and I think this is in the domain of the Open 
> Geospatial Consortium and the standards defining organisations generally. 
> Sorry, I've not been engaging there of late, but when I did interoperability 
> was the primary goal and standardisation of data and services and how to use 
> the services was key. Anyway, there can be other descriptors of 
> software/services too, like the nature of the user interfaces (whether there 
> are optional GUI/command line/whether things operate via web protocols and 
> indeed whether it is more a single desktop application or something that has 
> more of a client/server architecture, whether it is modular, whether there is 
> an API (and what the nature of this is), what language(s) it is written in 
> and possibly loads of other things).
>
> Sorry, I digress, let me try to get to the point...
>
> If there was a breakdown of what functions there are and how the software 
> works then this may help in identifying not only similarities between one 
> FOSS offering and other proprietary ones, but between FOSS ones. This could 
> be useful in a number of ways, one of which might be identifying whether 
> there is a single FOSS offering that does everything that a user currently 
> wants to do (and may do already using other software).
>
> Migrating from using one set of software to using another to perform the same 
> tasks can be quite a job for any organisation. It might require a significant 
> amount of research, the development of educational resources and training.
>
> It would be great if there was a set of educational resources that show how 
> to perform tasks in different software (and indeed using different 
> programming languages). Whatever the platform, there are metrics on the 
> complexity the level of automation and the computational efficiency that can 
> be developed. With a set of metrics it would be easier to measure the 
> similarity and difference between software.
>
> Sorry, having rambled on I realise that I have gone a bit off topic, I expect 
> this has already been suggested and is being worked on, I've dared not to 
> read the entire thread before posting, and I have very little time to help 
> get this in place! Also I have not replied to the very last post on this 
> thread but one a bit back as these others have spun off in other important 
> directions.
>
> Anyway, you have my moral support, thanks for all your efforts developing the 
> OSGeo website, educational resources, services and software.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andy
> http://www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.turner/index.html
>



Hi Andy,

Somehow we are already including this. Although, it's true, we didin't
distinguish between client and server, which could be quite confusing
(to improve!). For example, for GeoNetwork, find attached image.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: Board nomination: Maria Arias de Reyna

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX)
 wrote:
> Looks like I goofed bigtime!
>
> In my oversight, I mistakenly thought this was a nomination for Maria Antonia 
> Brovelli.
>
> And so was wishing to advance that in the most positive way.
>
> Maybe my delirium from being on the road for over three weeks of European 
> travel contributed to that.
>
> My apologies to Maria Arias de Reyna.

Don't worry. María is one of the most common names here on the
Mediterranean countries, that was going to happen sooner or later :)
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Charter Members: What kind of an OSGeo Board do we want?

[María Arias de Reyna]

>
>
>- All candidates - what role, specific topics would you like to work
>on within the board and why? what do you hope to contribute and achieve in
>the next 2 years?
>
> I think this is answered here on the Manifesto:
https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2017_Candidate_Manifestos#Mar.C3.ADa_Arias_de_Reyna_Dom.C3.ADnguez


   - Promoting diversity (geographical, ethnical, cultural and gender)

I know I have some privilege-blindness here as I am a highly educated
"white" binary-gendered female-born living in an european country. But
still, as president of a WIT association that is already improving
diversity in my region, I think I can push OSGeo a bit forward and help
introducing more diversity until I crash into my ceiling glass of
privilege-blindness.

   - Promoting FLOSS

I would like to go back to the free/open discussion, as making sure our
contributions are reusable and useful should be one of the core goals of
OSGeo. If we become too lax on the open definition, we may end up promoting
closed software that only helps the owner of the source code, not the
community.

>
>- If there was only 1 thing you could change in the next 2 years what
>would it be?
>
> This is a difficult one. I hope I don't really have to choose in the end.

But I think the diversity one is the one I would change. Because diversity
will also bring more quality, which means better forms of collaboration,
affecting incidentally the other goal.

I would hope that the freedom promotion can hold two years more without me,
specially because I know there are very good advocators fighting this war
already and it is a mid-term battle, not a two-years battle.


> May the FOSS be with you all
>

May the FLOSS be with you!
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Candidate Manifesto: María Arias de Reyna

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

You can find my manifesto here:

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2017_Candidate_Manifest
os#Mar.C3.ADa_Arias_de_Reyna_Dom.C3.ADnguez

Don't be shy in asking questions, it will be a tough decision and it will
not be easy to choose between the candidates.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Board Candidate Manifestos: 3 questions

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi Ger-Jan (and all),

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting
OSGeo.nl  wrote:

> Hi Board member candidates (and fellow voter members),
>
> = And one to all of you:
>
> Some of you talk about being an inclusive organization.
>
> For the geographical and probably cultural aspect of inclusiveness, do you
> think the Board should have it's roots in as much continents / languages as
> possible, so preferably 1 Board member from every continent (not counting
> for Antarctica, ha!)
>


I am no friend of quotas. At least everytime I have been offered things
just because I was a woman and they needed a female because [reason not
related to my real value] it made me feel really bad. Why would I want to
be somewhere (a board or whatever) where everyone knows I am there not
because I deserve it but because something I didn't even choose? If I
accepted, no one was going to hear my voice, I would have been unable to do
anything for real. No, thanks.

Said this, on an ideal world probably we would have in average one person
for each continent or language or culture or ethnicity or gender or
whatever criteria you want to split people into.

Would we achieve this by forcing quotas? We could but, I rather prefer to
get more diverse people engage and enthusiast with OSGeo so in the end they
will become natural leaders. Making an effort to help diverse people more
comfortable in OSGeo and encourage them to participate more? Yes. Giving
visibility to diverse people that are doing great things inside OSGeo?
Sure. Making an effort to put someone in some position just because we have
to fill a quota? No, thanks.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Board Candidate Manifestos: 3 questions

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Vicky Vergara  wrote:

> Hello all, Gret-Jan
>
> In my view section of my manifesto I mention OSGeo  is here to serve the
> people of the world.
> People in the world are Geographically distributed, have different
> cultures and using some number about the languages, for example, only in
> Mexico there are around 60+ languages and 6000+ languages around the world.
> So, we are here to serve the people regardless of the Geographical
> diversity, culture diversity, DNA diversity, gender diversity, political
> diversity, religious diversity.
>
> I don't think that is compulsory to have a representation of every
> continent/country/language/DNA/gender  on every cycle of the Board, but I
> think it would help if from time to time the  diversities are also
> represented.
>
> I hope the above answers your question. And I also hope that the following
> raises some internal questions:
>
>
> I will talk about  what I know:
> Spanish is the second most spoken language on the world (first is
> mandarin) and is the official language of 20 countries, 19 are located in
> Latin America 1 is located in Europe.
> Since OSGeo started there has not being a person  in the Board  from any
> of those countries. [1]
>
>
Hi,

Am I confused or wasn't Jorge Sanz part of the board a few years ago?

Not that I want to break your argument, you are right in everything else,
we (spanish-speaking) are very misrepresented considering how many we are
on the day to day work. And having a Spanish-speaking chapter is like...
English-speaking chapter? Too big. We had to break into smaller
GeoInquietos groups to be able to handle it. It is just too big. And still,
except for local organization purposes, having a global Spanish Chapter is
great.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Rewording the diversity argument

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Marc Vloemans 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Please notice that the concept of diversity is not about equal
> numbers/quota's. That has and will backfire as it misses the point and
> easily degrades individual achievements.
>
> It is essentially about 'inclusiveness'!
>
> I am trying to be sensitive to the European way of approaching the matter
> versus the American way. 'Diversity' as a term carries different
> connotations/values/interpretations for different cultures.
> Therefore I rather talk about 'inclusiveness' as everyone has felt left
> out at least once. So is able to relate to how that feels.
>
> Are we inviting and welcoming everyone that adds value in some way or is
> genuinely interested in OSGeo?
> Do we truly have the 'open' culture we pride ourselves on (e.g. past email
> treads attacking individuals could suggest differently)?
> Please, lets work on that, keep each other sharp and avoid window dressing.
>
> Kind regards,
> Marc Vloemans
>
>
Hi,

I agree that maybe the word diversity may be too cultural-related and maybe
we should avoid it as we may not be talking about the same things. Maybe
some native speakers can create a glosary of terms we can use when talking
about diversity and inclusiveness?

I know what to use in Spanish, but sometimes I am not sure how that
translates properly. It's like, can I say "black" if I am just being
descriptive? Because "afroamerican" may work fine in America, but what
about black people in Europe who has never been to America? "Afroeuropean"?
Why the difference? It is always confusing to me because I always get
different advices here.

Also, I think that being just welcoming and open on a pasive way is not
enough, which is how OSGeo has behave until now (or at least from my point
of view). That's the classic argument when men are asked about the lack of
women in tech. "We don't forbid them to come. If they would be interested,
they would be here. We will be happy if they join." And that's not how it
works. In my opinion, we have to be actively welcoming and inclusive at all
times. The slippery moment we forget, we are making people move away.


Op 13 okt. 2017 om 08:23 heeft María Arias de Reyna 
> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Hi Ger-Jan (and all),
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting
> OSGeo.nl  wrote:
>
>> Hi Board member candidates (and fellow voter members),
>>
>> = And one to all of you:
>>
>> Some of you talk about being an inclusive organization.
>>
>> For the geographical and probably cultural aspect of inclusiveness, do
>> you think the Board should have it's roots in as much continents /
>> languages as possible, so preferably 1 Board member from every continent
>> (not counting for Antarctica, ha!)
>>
>
>
> I am no friend of quotas. At least everytime I have been offered things
> just because I was a woman and they needed a female because [reason not
> related to my real value] it made me feel really bad. Why would I want to
> be somewhere (a board or whatever) where everyone knows I am there not
> because I deserve it but because something I didn't even choose? If I
> accepted, no one was going to hear my voice, I would have been unable to do
> anything for real. No, thanks.
>
> Said this, on an ideal world probably we would have in average one person
> for each continent or language or culture or ethnicity or gender or
> whatever criteria you want to split people into.
>
> Would we achieve this by forcing quotas? We could but, I rather prefer to
> get more diverse people engage and enthusiast with OSGeo so in the end they
> will become natural leaders. Making an effort to help diverse people more
> comfortable in OSGeo and encourage them to participate more? Yes. Giving
> visibility to diverse people that are doing great things inside OSGeo?
> Sure. Making an effort to put someone in some position just because we have
> to fill a quota? No, thanks.
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Ravi Kumar 
wrote:

>
>
> Question  (would be Board).  'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to
> be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation) are
> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW do you
> wish to correct this..
>

Hi,

I don't know if you are following the current FOSS4G process to select the
next venue. It turns out that I am proposing to host FOSS4G 2019 in
Sevilla. So I have studied this very close recently. And Jeff is right, it
is very difficult to find a cheap place where you can have so many people
at the same time. Organizing a conference when you have more than 500
attendees is a huge step forward and requires a lot of investment in
organization. Now we are getting closer to the 1500 attendees, can you
imagine how difficult is to cut costs if we want to succeed?

It was Vasile (who is also competing with Bucarest as venue) who made the
spreadsheet comparison about prices and the conclusion is that prices have
been very stable among the years if you take inflation into consideration.
Ok, we have had an economic depression in some countries and inflation is
not the same worldwide. But prices are not getting so much higher as the
general public perceives. I hope he can make this numbers public soon, as
it was a very interesting spreadsheet about the evolution of FOSS4G.

Said this: we can try to make FOSS4G more affordable, and indeed we should.
What would I do if I were on the board to get that? Well, if you take a
look at the proposal I am chairing in Sevilla[1][2], you will see we are
going to lower the prices, get more funds from the general budget for
travel grants (and not only wait for people to donate) and also the venue
is very cheap to stay at. Having countries that have problems travelling to
FOSS4G close is also a good push, but that's not always possible.

I think travel grants are a really good thing to improve. But that also
means having less surplus from FOSS4G, which is used for other events which
are smaller and can be helpful to reach those who can't afford FOSS4G. How
do we find balance here?

Maybe the idea of everyone going to every FOSS4G is the problem. Having
regional FOSS4G and smaller events is a good way to reach those who can't
afford to travel (and not only for economic reasons). Of course I would
like everyone to be able to travel to FOSS4G regularly, but I think that's
not realistic. Taking a full week of holidays for it or making your company
pay for your travel (if you have a job!) is not that easy even if you have
the money. What about your family and people who depend on you? What about
people who have political problems to travel? There is a lot of cases where
travelling out of your country or more than a couple of days is a nightmare.

I would try to do both approaches: make FOSS4G more affordable with travel
grants (who may not pay in all cases the full costs but maybe only part of
it to reach more people?) and also reinforce the regional and local events.
Lowering the general public cost of a FOSS4G is not as easy as it sounds as
many things depends on the (not so big) surplus of FOSS4G.

This is a topic to discuss in more detail in the future.

[1]
https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/foss4g/proposals/2019/FOSS4G%202019%20Letter%20of%20Intent%20for%20Sevilla.pdf
[2] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G2019_Q%26A_Sevilla

Regards,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Elections Debate

[María Arias de Reyna]

Indeed a last minute idea, we could at least had a quick doodle about the time.

I will try to be there, but can't be sure.

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 1:01 AM, Vicky Vergara  wrote:
> Hello all
>
> Announcing the 2017 Board Elections Debate on IRC.
>
> Time: 14:00 UTC
> Place: IRC channel #osgeo
>
> For those without IRC client you can log in using:
> http://webchat.freenode.net/
>
> Note: Its a last minute idea so maybe not all nominees will be there,
> therefore, we are going to be keeping it as a conversation with the
> community.
>
>
> Please feel free to join.
>
> Vicky
>
>
>
> --
>
> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
> Salzmannstraße 44,
> 81739 München, Germany
>
> Vicky Vergara
> Operations Research
>
> eMail: vi...@georepublic.de
> Web: https://georepublic.info
>
> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
>
> Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
> CEO: Daniel Kastl
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Elections 2017: roles and positions

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting
OSGeo.nl  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> One of the questions asked to our nominees to write down in their Manifesto
> is "which role you wish to fulfil in the Board".
>
> Apparently  a though question, since not answered by some candidates.
>
> Only Vicky hinted towards wanting to be an officer (Chair of the Board,
> President, Secretary, Treasurer [1]); she stated in her response "I don't
> want to handle money, which I interpret as not wanting to be treasurer).
>
>
>
> However, when reading more about the Officers in our Bylaws [1] two things
> struck me:
>
> 1.  "Chair of the Board" and "President" are two different positions.
>
> That makes sense: they require different skills. The Chair  must be able to
> keep the Board on track, whereas the President has more of an outreach role,
> making sure the community members are feeling comfortable, making sure "the
> guy in the back" is also reached.
>
> 2. An Officer does not have to be member Director (=Board Member) > OK, I
> should have know this, with Jachym being secretary while not being member of
> the Board of Directors.
>
>
>
> Although these elections are about membership, I'd like to ask the
> candidates if they have a preference for a certain officer position?

I think I already answered the question by saying what I want to
achieve. The "title" that comes with it is not a big deal to me. At
least on the rest of the organizations I am/have been part of, in the
end the board acts more like a do-acry than anything else. In some
organizations I have been more active than in others where I had a
higher position. Sometimes you have more free time you can invest in
pushing further the organization, sometimes you just have to let
others do the hard work, no matter what your position is.

Should I take care of the money? I doubt it as I am not specially good
at paperwork. But somebody has to do it so if there is no better
candidate, sure, I can do it.
Should I take care of paperwork? Again, somebody has to do it so even
if I am not good at that, I can do it.

And the same with other positions. I think this is more a decision to
be made when we see who is there. Why would I say I want a specific
position so when we are there I find somebody else who could do the
work better than me (and want to). My interest is not in having a good
bureaucracy, is having things done. If it is me or somebody else, who
cares? If in the end I do the "work" related to another position, does
it matter, as long as it is being done?
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Chadwin  wrote:
> Hello all
>
> A significant group who have possibly not yet chimed in on this issue are the 
> commercial organizations who sell GFOSS support and development. I presume 
> that FOSS4G is one of their best opportunities to get new business.

One of my targets when trying to make FOSS4G more affordable is
companies who may not be the big companies, but still can offer good
GFOSS services and contribute to it. In fact, I see much more benefit
in having a lot of small companies contributing than just one single
large company. I would be happier with a lot of small sponsors, each
of them contributing and believing on freedom.

I see FOSS4G as a place where everyone meet: developers, users,
companies. And each one can interact with the ones they are most
interested in. Should we focus only on having a shiny-suit conference
to attract investors? I doubt it, part of the strength of FLOSS is
precisely not being so "shiny-suited" but being a big community where
everyone can contribute and receive more than what they contributed.
We should never lose track of that, the community and the freedom to
reuse is our best attribute. Should we make sure we look serious and
trustables? Yes, definitely. But that's not incompatible.

Should we improve the B2B? Also yes. Making sure money flows is what
will make FOSS4G and OSGeo survive. Without money, many of the things
we do would be impossible. So, we have to balance the "attract
investors" with the "don't lose our identity", which is not simple and
believe me, not cheap :)

Anyway, ideas are always welcome. Even if you are not involved in
FOSS4G organization directly, I'm sure helping hands making everything
better are always welcome.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Ravi Kumar 
wrote:
> GFOSS.. Commercial Support.. +1 for this.
> But.. now that this has come to a boil..
>
> WHY NOT THE BOARD AND WOULD BE BOARD COME OUT CLEAR ON THIS..
> SURE THIS WILL HELP THE CHARTER.. WHOM TO VOTE..
> 'Free and Open Source'.. has brought to where we are.. This is a community
> effort.
>
> Is there a solution to OSGeo FOSS4G events, that are affordable to
> Users/Developers/Students..
>
> Ravi Kumar
>

Hi Ravi,

I think we have mentioned several ideas to fix this.* The Travel Grant *program
may not be very big right now, but it is growing year by year. Also, yes,
we are workinig on making the cost lower for attendants, have you checked
the current call for venues[1]? Have you checked the current *early bird
prices* for next FOSS4G[2]? Remember that some of them have a room already
included!

Maybe the problem is that you think this event should be free for
attendants? What is the price you would think it is reasonable for
attending FOSS4G? (This is a tricky question: whatever the price you say,
there will be people who will claim it is too high... unless it is free.
And then they will say travel costs are too high... you will never make
everyone happy unless it is a free event on their doorstep.).

And also remember what many of us had said: there are very good local and
regional events who have no reason to envy FOSS4G. As they are smaller, it
is easier to keep them cheaper.

There is another issue: we can lower insanely the price of the FOSS4G
ticket, but travel costs are still there. If you cannot afford to travel,
maybe you should look into your closest FOSS4G local event. Is there none?
Then look for your fellow osgeo members living near you and start one! How
do you think all this events started? A small group of people who wanted to
meet without having to travel much or wanting to talk about regional
specifics. That's it, there's no other secret.

[1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2019_Bid_Process
[2] https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/foss4g-2018-dar-es-salaam-tic
kets-36995828519#results
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Elections deadline extension by 24h

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Vasile Craciunescu 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I was just notified by one of our charter members (thank you, Jody!) about
> a mistake in the vote invitation email. The email contains this phrase "The
> deadline for this election is 23:59 GMT Tuesday 25th October 2017". Of
> course, Tuesday is today and today is the deadline according with our
> official calendar. However, just to make sure no one is mislead by this
> phrasing, I will extend the voting period with 24 hours. Is my mistake and
> I would like to apologize for this as is adding more problems an an already
> complicated situation. Hopefully, more members will have the chance to
> vote. Until now, 277 from the total of 390 charter members voted. Later
> tonight I will also publicly sent my position to the board on the situation
> caused by Jeff's request to withdraw from elections.
>
>

If it counts for something, either if I am elected or not, I think you did
a great job on a very stressful situation.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Elections 2017 from the CRO point of view

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 10:54 PM, Anita Graser  wrote:

> Thank you for your summary and assessment of the situation, Vasile!
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Jody Garnett 
> wrote:
>>
>> I am not sure I have collected my own thoughts, in the interests of
>> meeting your request I would like to ask if the current board members are
>> available for 14:00 UTC tomorrow.
>>
>
> ​I can't guarantee that I'll be able to make it, but here are my thoughts:
>
> 1) +1 Vasile's recommendation "to create a clear rule stating that an
> accepted nomination cannot be withdraw after the start of the voting
> period", and therefore
>
> 2) +1 the recommendation "not to admit the [withdrawal] request from Jef"
>
> 3) +1 "not to start new elections" for the reasons summarized by Vasile
>


Although it is true that this hasn't been very peaceful elections, I am
against of restarting the elections. If this is a democracy, let us decide
if we want to vote or not for someone. And if after the elections that
person feels that there is too much pressure and cannot stand it, then let
that person resign. And if we make a mistake and vote for someone who is a
bad choice, well, we will learn and not vote for that person again, right?
That's the beauty (and the beast) of the democracy. Mistakes can be made,
but they are not forever.

And this goes also for all the people who did campaign aggresively (public
and privately) against one of the candidates. It is good to ask about
things that worry you and to expose what you think it is a failure. But if
there is nothing on the rules that prevents that person to be elected, as
it was the case (maybe because of a loophole, but rules didn't explicitly
say he couldn't be elected), then that's it. There is no need to push that
to the personal level.

Thanks a lot Vasile for the work done. I have no doubt you did the best on
this case. And I hope the new board can work on your suggestions, I think
they are the right path to go. And reinforce the rules to cover extreme
cases.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Election 2017 Board of Directors elections results

[María Arias de Reyna]

Thanks to all the members who participated and specially those who voted
for me. I will try to make you proud of your decision! We will drink
argentinian beers to celebrate this is finally over!

And I know Vasile needs to rest because he was unable to order
alphabetically properly :) My last name is Arias de Reyna. Confusing, I
know :)

El 26 oct. 2017 18:24, "Vasile Craciunescu" 
escribió:

> Dear all,
>
> Please accept my apologies for not including in my message the elections
> results wiki page [1]. I did setup that page before sending the email. I
> was just too tired after a full conference day here in Bucharest. Tomorrow
> I will add the full elections log.
>
> Best,
> Vasile
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Election_2017_Results
>
>
> On 10/26/17 10:08 PM, Vasile Craciunescu wrote:
>
>> Dear OSGeo community,
>>
>> These are the results from the 2017 elections for the 5 open
>> seats of the OSGeo Board of Directors. The results in alphabetical
>> order are:
>>
>> * Astrid Emde
>> * Jody Garnett
>> * Jeff McKenna
>> * Helena Mitasova
>> * María Arias de Reyna
>>
>> Thanks to all candidates to ongoing through the elections process.
>> Election figures are:
>>
>> * Membership: 390
>> * Valid votes: 308
>> * Not finished votes: 5
>> * Not voted: 77
>>
>> There were no scores to arbitrate. One candidate withdraw during the
>> voting period. A final position is expected from the candidate ASAP. Thank
>> you all who voted!!
>>
>> The complete resulting Board (wiki order) for 2017/2018 is:
>>
>> * Vasile Craciunescu
>> * Maria Antonia Brovelli
>> * Michael Smith
>> * Angelos Tzotsos
>> * Astrid Emde
>> * Jody Garnett
>> * Jeff McKenna
>> * Helena Mitasova
>> * María Arias de Reyna
>>
>> Personally I just want to express my joy for the excellent scores of our
>> ladies candidates, elected or not.
>>
>> Please congratulate the new OSGeo Directors!
>>
>> My job as CRO is almost finished now, I will update the wiki with the
>> detailed results (CSV with every vote and the timestamp) as soon as
>> possible.
>>
>> Best,
>> Vasile
>> CRO 2017
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> -
> Vasile Crăciunescu
> geo-spatial.org: An elegant place for sharing geoKnowledge & geoData
> http://www.geo-spatial.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/geo-spatial
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear all,

Sorry for the late response. I was busy going back from different timezones
and that is a killer for me (travelling, being sleepy, etc...).

I agree with Sanghee that we have gone one step backwards. We have lost
Asia in the board. That's a step backwards we shouldn't have had. And I
agree with 90% of opinions posted here that are sad about the
European-NAmerica board. So I will just highlight what I don't agree with.
And this is an optimistic email, I don't share the general pessimism. Wait
for the end of it.

I don't agree that Venka has been punished somehow despite his good work.
Do you really think that if someone is doing a good work that should
warrantee his position on the board? I don't think so. I think the reward
of doing a good job comes somewhere else: recognition, ¿fame?, trust,
acknowledgement, even free beers! But even if you think a position on the
board is a reward, then, maybe other people have been also rewarded with
that for work outside the presidency of OSGeo but inside the community. Or
maybe people just wanted a fresh view, not necessarily that meaning that
his work (or your work!) was bad. There is a lot of reasons for voting
someone and I personally think that a "reward" vote shouldn't be one.
Having other candidates with more votes doesn't mean you did a bad job at
all.

Do I think that you both should be on the board? Yes, of course! But this
has also been (at least for me) a very difficult voting. It was very hard
to choose between the candidates. All had good reasons to be there, all had
good work done inside the community. So, how to choose? I know what you
have been doing because I have done an explicit effort to know about that.
I have gone to international events, I have followed the mailing lists, I
have followed many threads on twitter. Most people only know what people
around them do. So it is possible (and very likely, in my opinion) that a
lot of people just see OSGeo as an organization, but don't see the work of
individuals. So for them, Venka is that person who does the "history of
OSGeo" talk, but nothing special around him that other active members don't
have. If we ask members who has been behind the new website, how many of
them would know? And that is something that has had a lot of publicity
recently. What about all the rest of work that has less exposure?

So when it comes to voting, they see candidates who are active in trying to
show their views and other candidates that are not present. Not being
present on the election process, that is what have drained votes, I would
say. Not your fault, maybe, but how do we explain that to people who don't
see individuals because they are already busy with local and regional stuff?

And now the optimistic part:On the other hand, we have gone two steps
forward. Wait, what? Let me explain:

We are finally half male half female. Although this may not look like a
step forward to some of you, to me it is a huge win. And we did that
without the need for quotas. That't a double win. And it is a tendency that
has been stable so I am optimistic here.

And the other step, but still an important step forward, we have recovered
the long lost Iberoamerican community in the board. Since Jorge Sanz, we
haven't had a spanish-speaking board member. I know I count as European,
but I am as European as I am part of the large (huge!) community that
culturally spreads also on north, central and south America. So yes, Vicky
may have been a better representative of this community because she is not
european, but still, I plan to work hard on getting latin americans closer
to OSGeo. Remember that this community is the ¿largest? community in OSGeo
and they are very silent because many reasons (low English level, no
international FOSS4G being done close, middle income economy that can't
afford to travel far or even organizing codesprints properly!,... etc...).
Most of them work hard towards OSGeo and don't even know there is such a
thing as a membership! They just work aligned with our goals and inside the
community, but they see so far away the OSGeo "official" community that
they don't even bother to get closer. To get what? What would be their
motivation to get closer to a community that largely ignores them?

If you think OSGeo has less importance in South America, check the
GeoInquietos. Different branding, same work. On the FOSS4G-BA, after María
Brovelli's talk about OSGeo, many of them were surprised. They knew about
FOSS4G just because the geoinquietos from Argentina placed it on their
doorstep. But, OSGeo? What's that? Aaah, the same thing they have been
doing but on an English-speaking community.

We have lost Asia, but we have a window to South America. And that's very
important.

And, wait, have we lost Asia? Does it mean that if there is no board member
from Asia, Asia is going to disappear or something?

If you think it will help, we can have something like one representative
for each chapter as advisor or watcher of th

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] "Hostile Takeover" -- what do we mean by this?

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

So the concern is not for the current board, but for future boards that may
not be involved in free and open source software and follow different goals
using OSGeo.

I don't see that happening in the short term from OSM or similar
organizations, but the answer to your questions are on the bylaws, sections
8.3 and on, ARTICLE XI and, of course, ARTICLE I:
http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/incorporation/bylaws.html

I would be more worried about the open washing than this.

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Ravi Kumar 
wrote:

> Maria,
> the following email of Frank explains.
> So, when a need arises, the board can put to vote the learned Charter of
> OSGeo, to seek guidance.
> As the Board is elected by the Charter, the charter in turn can advise.
> Our very learned 1st board have thought about, and Frank is one of them.
> Cheers
> Ravi Kumar
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Frank Warmerdam 
> Date: Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] "Hostile Takeover" -- what do we mean by this?
> To: Helmut Kudrnovsky 
> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
>
>
> Helmut,
>
> The word "hostile" is a bit unfortunate.  One of the goals of charter
> membership early in the organization was to provide a mechanism to
> keep us aligned on roughly our original mission and community.  I
> personally had a concern that we might get swamped by some other
> community and almost accidentally taken over.  For instance one might
> have imagined if all the folks interested in OSM joined OSGeo they
> might have accidentally swamped "us" and we would potentially have
> lost the goals of the organization.
>
> Best regards,
> Frank
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Helmut Kudrnovsky  wrote:
> > sorry, missed the subject
> >
> >
> > Gesendet: Montag, 28. August 2017 um 20:12 Uhr
> > Von: "Helmut Kudrnovsky"
> > An: discuss@lists.osgeo.org, s...@sarasafavi.com
> > Betreff: Kein Betreff
> > Sara Safavi:
> >>In the notification emails from CRO to new charter member nominees, the
> >>following is included (emphasis mine):
> >>
> >>*"(Charter Members) have the following responsibilities: (1) annually
> vote
> >>for OSGeo Board Members; (2) annually vote for new OSGeo Charter Members
> >>and (3) be aware of and protect against a hostile takeover of OSGeo."*
> >>
> >>I have had more than one nominee of mine contact me asking what exactly
> >>this means. I agree with their concerns: this is strange language to use,
> >>is not reflected in our bylaws, and frankly does not fit the image I
> >>presented when I first contacted them asking if they would accept a
> >>nomination.
> >
> > one may translate it to: being responsible of/taking care for the wealth
> and integrity of foundation based
> > upon the principles and bylaws.
> >
> >>It may be a language barrier or simply a misunderstanding, but can we
> >>clarify what is meant by using this kind of verbiage, and consider a
> >>re-wording?
> >
> > I tend to keep it as it is. rewording would mean involving the charter
> members as this related to them.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Helmut
> >
> > OSGeo charter member
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> --
> ---+
> --
> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
> warmer...@pobox.com
> light and sound - activate the windows |
> and watch the world go round - Rush| Geospatial Software Developer
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Letter from the new OSGeo President

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear fellow OSGeo members,

I am proud and happy to have been appointed President of OSGeo. I hope to
fulfill your expectations and continue to improve OSGeo. We are living
beautiful times for free and open source software in geo and all of us
should enjoy and participate in this party.

One of the things this board has been discussing lately is that we should
get more people involved in the organization. I would like to take the
opportunity
so that those who want to get more involved can step forward and begin to
perform tasks that will make our community better. There is always room for
more volunteers and any help, as small as it may seem, will help us grow
more.

As you may know, I want to promote more diversity and inclusiveness in the
organization. So if you feel a bit isolated and want to be more involved,
it would be a good time to send an email to the OSGeo discuss mailing list
(or any of the other mailing lists you may be part of) so we know you are
there and want to get involved more. Making us aware you are there will
help us identify communities or individuals that are more isolated so we
can extend our network to reach you.

Thanks for all the good work and thanks to everyone participating in OSGeo.
It is you who make this organization what it is.

Cheers,
María Arias de Reyna
President, OSGeo Foundation
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I share your fears. But on the other hand, the list of sponsors is not
closed for this year, I know for sure there are open source companies that
are still pending to be shown there. GeoCat for example, being a small SME
in comparison, will do the yearly effort to be a key sponsor proving that
open source companies support FOSS4G events.

You know (because I have been tiring on this subject) that I am completely
against openwashing. And I will not be comfortable (and protest) if FOSS4G
is used as a platform to promote closed source software. If I see a track
full of selling closed architectures and software or some keynote talking
about the greatness of closed software, I will be angry. But until now, we
have had closed source companies sponsoring OSGeo and the "worst" thing we
have had is some talk with a lot of openwashing that made us laugh. No big
harm, but useful to reopen the debate and refresh terms.

Look at it like this: If a closed source software company (and I won't say
ESRI here, because we have more examples, don't focus only on one) wants to
sponsor an FLOSS conference... look at it as a small fee for all the work
they are reusing from our open side. Is it the only budget they spend on
open source? Is it because they want to get close to the community and keep
in touch with the state of the art software in the industry? Great! If
anything, I would be more worried if they had no interest in FLOSS. This
means we are an important piece of the industry and they want to be
involved, either to -steal- research about our way of working, our ideas or
whatever we have.

Big companies with closed software history can't change from one day to
another. Can you imagine Microsoft announcing Windows is going to be FLOSS?
Would be insane and dangerous (if a code is going to be FLOSS, it should be
FLOSS from the beginning to avoid big security holes in the open that come
inherently on closed software). Let them get closer and, maybe in the
future, they will become real FLOSS advocators.

While they "only" sponsor and maybe promote the ¿little? job they do on
FLOSS, I am fine. If they want to cross that line and start a conversation
about how great closed software is, then we will have to stop them.

Regards,
María.


On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 2:49 AM, André Cruvinel Resende 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> We have had this fear in the past.
>
> I remember when Autodesk decided to open Mapguide and some of us were
> furious and upset and worried about our community's influence and decisions.
>
> It seems that in the end It was not that important and It does not kill
> Mapserver.
>
> Good and open week. (And mind too)
>
> https://mapguide.osgeo.org/about.html.
>
> André Cruvinel.
>
> Em 25 de fev de 2018 7:11 PM, "Jody Garnett" 
> escreveu:
>
> I do not think of it as just an emotive response - some business models do
> not match our ideals as an organization (requirement to purchase a platform
> subscription for services, or an API key for data use). While some
> organizations match our ideals, but I do not like the ethics (dumping
> software to opensource as part of an exit strategy).
>
> Both these approaches use open source as a tool, but to enable behaviour
> that is not necessarily collaborative. The free-and-open end of the open
> source pool is working on this, but it is a big pool and we want to help
> everyone.
>
> I see our role as changing the the playing field over time so that these
> business models do perform as well as the ones that embrace, contribute to
> and leverage open source.
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 1:59 PM  wrote:
>
>> Indeed GDAL/OGR uses some ESRI code, example:
>>
>> https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b4
>> 34b01ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/JPEG_band.cpp#L21
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don’t want anyone with competing products, it’ll be a short list,
>> and somewhat difficult to justify (e.g. OSGeo has lots of software that is
>> mostly developed and tested against Oracle’s Java, but Oracle Spatial is an
>> alternative to PostGIS). If you don’t want anyone who does patents, it’ll
>> exclude most of the big IT companies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this just an emotive response?
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
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> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 4:02 PM, SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA <
sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy> wrote:

> Stefano, certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have expressed
> my concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto were sponsoring an organic
> food event. I don't think ESRI (or Google or IBM or others) approaches
> OSGeo innocently. This approach should make OSGeo more alert. And distrust
> their intentions. I remember that some years ago ESRI did not let gvSIG
> people even assist an ESRI conference. And now what has changed? That the
> FOSS4G movement is now "cool". So it makes these companies present
> themselves as OS ("we support the OS movement, we even sponsor their
> events", even "we are OS") and it is easier for them to enter certain
> places (later it is more difficult for them to leave). Maybe these
> companies should be asked something more than money in exchange for
> sponsoring the FOSS4G. And see how far they can get with that support to
> the FOSS4G movement...
>

That's a dangerous approach. How do you classify companies that "have to do
something more than money" from companies that don't? If a company have a
mix of open and closed software what happens? If a company contributes a
lot with open software but not on the GIS area, is it good or bad? And the
opposite?

I think we are all aware of the red lines they shouldn't cross. If you feel
more comfortable, we can even write those red lines to make them explicit.
But starting to treat them differently just because their nature... do you
want to ban people coming to our conferences based on... what? That's a
dangerous road. Even if we have suffered that in the past, I am not sure we
should degrade us to that point. We are the good ones here :)

But still, if you want to write the red lines/guidelines explicitly I will
be happy to review and contribute so we can propose them as something more
official. In fact, I realized there are no requirements about what a FOSS4G
should be besides a very abstract concept. Should we do it more explicit?
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in OSGeo

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear Mark,

Thank you very much for your email.

I agree we should continue the discussion in the open. Now we have a
clear view of the current situation from the board (and people
following that list). A reason why I personally haven't moved this
quicker more open is because I don't want OSGeo to be responsible of
people coming out of the closet on the community and then travelling
to Tanzania and having problems because of that. The risk is very low,
as you have confirmed, but this is a very sensitive issue in many
countries. Everyone should be aware of this before starting to point
personal experiences, especially people coming from privileged
countries where being LGBT+ is not only legal, but socially accepted.

We have an OSGeo meeting in Bonn very soon and I think that is a
proper place to discuss this, as it will be face to face and some
people will be able to discuss this without having to write their
names anywhere. I agree there should be an LGBT+ group inside OSGeo,
and maybe we should provide the tools to allow members from sensitive
countries/personal situations to participate anonymously. (How? I
don't know yet.) And we should promote also some kind of diversity
advice group, where all kind of discriminations can be addressed.
Maybe merge this idea with the CoC team? Maybe a separated dedicated
team? I don't know.

Thanks for this and if you need some immediate action from the board,
just let us know.

Regards,
María.




On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Mark Iliffe  wrote:
> Dear OSGeo Board,
>
> On the 20th of February I wrote in response to a concern raised on LGBT+
> concerns in Dar es Salaam. To this, set out the following four action
> points:
>
>> To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance
>> to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community
>> on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and
>> all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other
>> medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the
>> board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues;
>> 4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support
>> appropriate guidance on this issue.
>
>
> To update on this:
>
> 1. We are collaborating with Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team on this issue,
> to ensure that the response to our mutual communities are in lock-step on
> this issue. Guidance will be published for consultation for the conference
> shortly;
> 2. I have reached out to members of the LGBT+ community that I know
> personally on a bilateral basis. I would welcome further dialogue with the
> OSGeo LGBT+ community on a bilateral, private basis for people to voice
> their concerns in confidence;
>
> Points 3 and 4 are of specific interest, in the view of the LOC of FOSS4G
> 2018, as we can set policy direction for our conference, but have no mandate
> nor mechanism to set policy across OSGeo. To this end, I would formally
> request, in my role of Chair of FOSS4G for the OSGeo Board to provide
> direction to future FOSS4G conferences and to further support and service
> this community within our wider community.
>
> Clearly, there is a desire for LGBT+ to be considered further in our
> community - as noted in the transcript of the previous board meeting [1],
> but I think this needs to be communicated to our wider community - I see the
> discussions on the OSGeo board mailing list, though this may not have the
> widest circulation. I am also available to have a video conference with the
> board, at their earliest possible convenience if such an invitation was
> extended.
>
> Finally, I really want to stress this for our conference in Dar es Salaam
> this year to our community: We want to have the most inclusive conference
> that we can possibly have. In the same way that previous FOSS4G events in
> Boston and North Carolina have demonstrated, our conferences have dealt with
> challenges within the wider legislative framework of their host country, we
> as a community are welcoming to any and all with open arms. We will publish
> guidance for those travelling, and if you still wish to participate but
> cannot come to Dar es Salaam, get in touch with us - we will help you get
> involved! Our FOSS4G will only be successful due to ALL the people in our
> OSGeo community; we are a big and dynamic family - we will reflect and live
> that this year in Dar es Salaam, and I hope in the many years to come.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2018-03-01
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: jorge.dejesus 
> Date: 21 February 2018 at 08:26
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania
> To: conference_...@lists.osgeo.org
>
>
> Hi to all
>
> I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the
> question added to the next RfP.
>
> The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of c

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo sponsorship opportunities for 2018

[María Arias de Reyna]

Also, don't forget SigLibre:
https://www.osgeo.org/events/jornadas-sig-libre-2018/

We have a lot of small and medium events we should sponsor, not
everyone can travel to the big ones!

And please, if you are running a FOSS4G event, make sure you add it to
the web page so it reaches more people: https://www.osgeo.org/events/

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:09 PM, Peter Mooney  wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Please also be aware of our OSGeo Ireland event in May 2018. We are a small
> and relatively new event and local chapter. However, we are expecting, and
> working towards, up to 100 delegates for our one day event.
>
> There will be sponsorship opportunities available - please see our event
> page [https://www.osgeo.org/events/irish-osgeo-symposium-2018/]
>
> With best wishes,
>
> Peter (on behalf of the organizing committee)
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Till Adams  wrote:
>>
>> Dear Jody,
>>
>> many thanks for this information! Indeed you missed one upcoming event.
>>
>> In parallel to the OSGeo codesprint from 21.-24.th of March the FOSSGIS
>> conference will take place in Bonn. We have 450 attendees and with that one
>> of the bigger events in our OSGeo-calendar.
>>
>> We have quite some sponsors:
>>
>> https://www.fossgis-konferenz.de/2018/ (scroll down)
>>
>> What must we do in order to get these sponsors cross listed as
>> OSgeo-sponsors?
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Till
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 10.03.2018 um 19:06 schrieb Jody Garnett:
>>
>> If your organization fincially contributes to an OSGeo event, community or
>> project you qualify to be cross listed as OSGeo sponsor.
>>
>> Welcome to an exciting year of community building at OSGeo! Many of our
>> activities are only possible thanks to the support of our volunteers and
>> sponsors. If you are in position to finacially support our community, events
>> and activities in 2018 we would love to hear from you.
>>
>> OSGeo sponsorship recognizes organizations that support us financially at
>> each level of our community from grass roots local chapter advocacy, hands
>> on project sprints, industry focused foundation initiatives, to outreach at
>> FOSS4G events.
>>
>> OSGeo initiatives:
>>
>> The conference committee heads up a travel grant program offering
>> financial assistence to help attend OSGeo events.
>> UN Committee is spearheading a series of capacity building exercises
>> supporting open source adoption through improvements to documentation. This
>> initative encourages young innovators, selecting from competing bids to
>> directly support open source.
>>
>> Event sponsorship opportunities:
>>
>> FOSS4GUK – OSGeo:UK hosting March 8-10
>> OSGeo Code Sprint 2018 Annual Code Sprint comes to Bonn (Germany) March
>> 18-25
>> FOSS4GNA – opportunity to learn, explore, share, and collaborate on the
>> latest foss4g ideas and information May 14-16.
>> FOSS4G-Europe 2018 – FOSS4G Europe, July 16-21, Portugal.
>> FOSS4G – our celebrated annual event August 27 – September 2.
>> Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies and Open Data
>> Conference – Comunidad gvSIG Uruguay/GeoForAll Iberoamerica hosting October
>> 18-19
>> FOSS4G Asia 2018 – open source transformation for sustainable development
>> Dec 2-5
>> Additional regional and project events will be announced throughout the
>> year, keep your eye open for a chance to assist either financially or in
>> person.
>>
>> Project sponsorship opportunities:
>>
>> gvSIG Association supporting the OSGeo gvSig Desktop application
>> QGIS.ORG supporting the OSGeo QGIS Desktop application
>> zoo-project
>> GRASS GIS
>> In addition to those listed above we accepts sponsorship and PayPal
>> donations for all our OSGeo projects and Community projects making funds
>> available to their respective project teams.
>>
>> Local chapters accepting sponsorship:
>>
>> OSGeo:UK
>> OSGeo:JP
>> Check with the local chapter near you for more information.
>>
>> OSGeo sponsorship benefits range from website placement, inclusion in
>> promotional material, to events and press releases. For additional
>> information, examples and available discounts, please see our sponsorship
>> page (or contact treasu...@osgeo.org with your questions).
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Deadline for FOSS4G Tanzania

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear fellow colleges,

I know we are all busy and time runs fast and maybe you didn't realize
but we are getting close to the deadline for submitting presentations,
workshops, posters, and maps!

Don't miss the opportunity to visit this year's FOSS4G in Tanzania and
submit your proposals to http://2018.foss4g.org/programme.html

We want to have the most diverse FOSS4G ever, so don't hesitate, all
ideas are welcome. Are you really going to miss the conference
everyone is going to talk about for years?

Cheers,
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO US National Chapter

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

This is really good news!

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 8:02 PM, Randal Hale
 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> Thanks to a few successful events here in the US, (Especially Boston
> FOSS4G 2017) several of us have been working toward formation of a US
> OSGEO Chapter. We've talked to several people in and around the US and
> multiple people involved in local chapters. I guess consider this a first
> shout of "Hello OSGEO World".
>
> Following the Guidelines [1] for Chapter formation we have a good start:
>
> 1. Self Organizing: Based on informal discussions with OSGeo members
> online and at the FOSS4G conference there is a major interest in how to
> support and build community across the nation. Technocation [2] is a
> non-profit that can act as a formal home for the OSGeo.US chapter.
>
> 2. Mission Statement: OSGeo.US will cultivate and support local OSGeo
> chapters and projects in the United States. OSGeo.US will also support
> activities and events that build awareness of the OSGeo and create
> opportunities to grow the OSGeo community.
>
> I also realized in this email - we've yet to stick anything on the
> wiki.osgeo.org site - we'll get that done shortly.
>
> 3. As for an official rep for the chapter: I was nominated by the group
> to be the official Spokesperson for now. So I'll do what I can to answer
> emails or drag someone else into the mix to answer them if I can't.
>
> 4. I'll be sending more information to the OSGEO Board - I
> wanted to start a discussion now and see if there was any angst that I
> or anyone else could address and if anyone else was interested in
> helping push this along.
>
> 5. TBD Later
>
> Anyway - Since I've not quit done anything like this before - Excuse
> anything I've forgotten or not done properly in this first announcement.
>
> Randy
>
>
> [1] http://www2.osgeo.org/content/chapters/guidelines.html
>
> [2] https://technocation.github.io/
>
> --
> Randal Hale
> rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> https://www.northrivergeographic.com
> (423)653-3611
>
>
> --
> Randal Hale
> rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> https://www.northrivergeographic.com
> (423)653-3611
>
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[OSGeo-Discuss] [Call out] Diversity team volunteering

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear fellow members,

We have had some discussions running in the last months regarding how
to improve diversity and inclusivity inside OSGeo. If you feel part of
a target group for diversity and inclusiveness, I would like to ask
for your help and volunteer to help us improving our guidelines and
conducts. Even if you haven't been a very visible or active member of
OSGeo until now, this is important because your point of view is
difficult to reach from a privileged perspective.

What is a target group for diversity?
We don't want to have a strict list here, our goal is to have a
diverse and wide range pool of points of views that can watch and
review OSGeo to make sure we don't leave anyone behind.

Some examples: POC, WIT, LGBT+, economic diversity. But we don't want
to stop there. If you are blind, neurodiverse, on a wheelchair, or
anything you think that we should take into consideration, please,
volunteer too.

What are we calling out for? Well, at least we have two starting points here:
 * Review CoC for FOSS4G and help organization in making it as more
diverse as possible.
 * Review CoC for OSGeo.

What do I ask you right now? If you want to help, please, do the following:
 * Join the CoC mailint list and say hi:
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/coc-discuss
 * Help here: https://github.com/foss4g2018/foss4g2018/issues/65

This is all volunteer work and we won't ask you to do anything more
than you can give. But remember that without your point of view, we
can't make OSGeo easier to reach for people with your profile. And we
want to welcome everybody as much as possible.

Thank you very much,
María.
OSGeo, President.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO US National Chapter

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi Randal,

How is the chapter creation going? I see there is no page yet on the
osgeo.org webpage: https://www.osgeo.org/local-chapters/ Can you make
sure there is at least a draft page where the contact point and the
status of the chapter are reflected?

Also I see there are some local chapters in USA:
https://www.osgeo.org/local-chapters/twin-cities-mn-usa-chapter/
https://www.osgeo.org/local-chapters/pdxosgeo/
https://www.osgeo.org/local-chapters/california/

I understand you already reached all of them?

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 8:02 PM, Randal Hale
 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> Thanks to a few successful events here in the US, (Especially Boston
> FOSS4G 2017) several of us have been working toward formation of a US
> OSGEO Chapter. We've talked to several people in and around the US and
> multiple people involved in local chapters. I guess consider this a first
> shout of "Hello OSGEO World".
>
> Following the Guidelines [1] for Chapter formation we have a good start:
>
> 1. Self Organizing: Based on informal discussions with OSGeo members
> online and at the FOSS4G conference there is a major interest in how to
> support and build community across the nation. Technocation [2] is a
> non-profit that can act as a formal home for the OSGeo.US chapter.
>
> 2. Mission Statement: OSGeo.US will cultivate and support local OSGeo
> chapters and projects in the United States. OSGeo.US will also support
> activities and events that build awareness of the OSGeo and create
> opportunities to grow the OSGeo community.
>
> I also realized in this email - we've yet to stick anything on the
> wiki.osgeo.org site - we'll get that done shortly.
>
> 3. As for an official rep for the chapter: I was nominated by the group
> to be the official Spokesperson for now. So I'll do what I can to answer
> emails or drag someone else into the mix to answer them if I can't.
>
> 4. I'll be sending more information to the OSGEO Board - I
> wanted to start a discussion now and see if there was any angst that I
> or anyone else could address and if anyone else was interested in
> helping push this along.
>
> 5. TBD Later
>
> Anyway - Since I've not quit done anything like this before - Excuse
> anything I've forgotten or not done properly in this first announcement.
>
> Randy
>
>
> [1] http://www2.osgeo.org/content/chapters/guidelines.html
>
> [2] https://technocation.github.io/
>
> --
> Randal Hale
> rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> https://www.northrivergeographic.com
> (423)653-3611
>
>
> --
> Randal Hale
> rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> https://www.northrivergeographic.com
> (423)653-3611
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [GRASS-user] Helena Mitasova awarded 2018 Waldo-Tobler GIScience Prize

[María Arias de Reyna]

Congratulations!

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Helmut Kudrnovsky  wrote:
> forwarding: 
> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-user/2018-April/078052.html
>
> -
> https://gi-science.blogspot.com/2018/04/helena-mitasova-awarded-2018-waldo.html
>
> "The Austrian Academy of Sciences through its Commission for GIScience is
> awarding the GIScience Prize named after Prof Waldo Tobler to a scientist
> having demonstrated outstanding and sustained contributions to the
> discipline worthy of inspiring young scientists in Geoinformatics and
> Geographic Information Science, and having accomplished significant
> advances in research and education.
>
> The received nominations were reviewed and assessed by an external panel of
> peers, who unanimously recommended to award the 2018 prize to Prof Helena
> Mitasova (North Carolina State University)."
> 
>
> congratulations!
>
> kind regards
> Helmut
>
> OSGeo charter member
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Call out] Diversity team volunteering

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear all,

We haven't had much movement around this subject since the call-out.
And this is bad. Very bad. This means one or more of the following:
 * Our community is too heterogeneous, we have no diverse members.
 * Diverse members of our community feel too disconected to participate.
 * Diverse members of our community are too overworked to volunteer on this.

So now I want to mobilize the not-diverse members of our community to
reach our members from diversity target groups. Please, talk to them,
make sure they feel comfortable and included and make sure they are
not overworking to be with us.

I think I don't need to explain to you why an heterogenous community
is bad in the long term sustainability. We have barriers we are
possibly not even aware of and it is difficult to get rid of them if
we don't have input from people suffering from those barriers (like, I
didn't realize how difficult it is to get to a conference on a
wheelchair until I saw it with my own eyes). We are losing a lot of
talent by not taking care of this.

Kind Regards,
María.


On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 2:08 PM, María Arias de Reyna  wrote:
> Dear fellow members,
>
> We have had some discussions running in the last months regarding how
> to improve diversity and inclusivity inside OSGeo. If you feel part of
> a target group for diversity and inclusiveness, I would like to ask
> for your help and volunteer to help us improving our guidelines and
> conducts. Even if you haven't been a very visible or active member of
> OSGeo until now, this is important because your point of view is
> difficult to reach from a privileged perspective.
>
> What is a target group for diversity?
> We don't want to have a strict list here, our goal is to have a
> diverse and wide range pool of points of views that can watch and
> review OSGeo to make sure we don't leave anyone behind.
>
> Some examples: POC, WIT, LGBT+, economic diversity. But we don't want
> to stop there. If you are blind, neurodiverse, on a wheelchair, or
> anything you think that we should take into consideration, please,
> volunteer too.
>
> What are we calling out for? Well, at least we have two starting points here:
>  * Review CoC for FOSS4G and help organization in making it as more
> diverse as possible.
>  * Review CoC for OSGeo.
>
> What do I ask you right now? If you want to help, please, do the following:
>  * Join the CoC mailint list and say hi:
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/coc-discuss
>  * Help here: https://github.com/foss4g2018/foss4g2018/issues/65
>
> This is all volunteer work and we won't ask you to do anything more
> than you can give. But remember that without your point of view, we
> can't make OSGeo easier to reach for people with your profile. And we
> want to welcome everybody as much as possible.
>
> Thank you very much,
> María.
> OSGeo, President.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Call out] Diversity team volunteering

[María Arias de Reyna]

El sáb., 14 abr. 2018 20:27, María Arias de Reyna 
escribió:

> Dear all,
>
> We haven't had much movement around this subject since the call-out.
> And this is bad. Very bad. This means one or more of the following:
>  * Our community is too heterogeneous, we have no diverse members.


My bad, I meant homogeneous.

 * Diverse members of our community feel too disconected to participate.
>  * Diverse members of our community are too overworked to volunteer on
> this.
>
> So now I want to mobilize the not-diverse members of our community to
> reach our members from diversity target groups. Please, talk to them,
> make sure they feel comfortable and included and make sure they are
> not overworking to be with us.
>
> I think I don't need to explain to you why an heterogenous community
> is bad in the long term sustainability. We have barriers we are
> possibly not even aware of and it is difficult to get rid of them if
> we don't have input from people suffering from those barriers (like, I
> didn't realize how difficult it is to get to a conference on a
> wheelchair until I saw it with my own eyes). We are losing a lot of
> talent by not taking care of this.
>
> Kind Regards,
> María.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 2:08 PM, María Arias de Reyna 
> wrote:
> > Dear fellow members,
> >
> > We have had some discussions running in the last months regarding how
> > to improve diversity and inclusivity inside OSGeo. If you feel part of
> > a target group for diversity and inclusiveness, I would like to ask
> > for your help and volunteer to help us improving our guidelines and
> > conducts. Even if you haven't been a very visible or active member of
> > OSGeo until now, this is important because your point of view is
> > difficult to reach from a privileged perspective.
> >
> > What is a target group for diversity?
> > We don't want to have a strict list here, our goal is to have a
> > diverse and wide range pool of points of views that can watch and
> > review OSGeo to make sure we don't leave anyone behind.
> >
> > Some examples: POC, WIT, LGBT+, economic diversity. But we don't want
> > to stop there. If you are blind, neurodiverse, on a wheelchair, or
> > anything you think that we should take into consideration, please,
> > volunteer too.
> >
> > What are we calling out for? Well, at least we have two starting points
> here:
> >  * Review CoC for FOSS4G and help organization in making it as more
> > diverse as possible.
> >  * Review CoC for OSGeo.
> >
> > What do I ask you right now? If you want to help, please, do the
> following:
> >  * Join the CoC mailint list and say hi:
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/coc-discuss
> >  * Help here: https://github.com/foss4g2018/foss4g2018/issues/65
> >
> > This is all volunteer work and we won't ask you to do anything more
> > than you can give. But remember that without your point of view, we
> > can't make OSGeo easier to reach for people with your profile. And we
> > want to welcome everybody as much as possible.
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> > María.
> > OSGeo, President.
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Call out] Diversity team volunteering

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 4:10 PM, SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA
 wrote:
> María, congratulations for your concern in this. I think we still have
> strong barriers regarding gender and language. The latter particularly
> affects the "Third World" (to put it in some way). And all POC, WIT, LGBT+,
> blind, women, etc. inside it (that find it much more difficult to
> integrate/emancipate than in the "First World"). Language is surely an
> important reason why you didn't get any response to your call. If there is
> any way I can help you spread your concern just let me know.
>
> Best wishes,

You are right, Sergio. Language is a barrier. I have on my TO-DO
translate the message and go chapter by chapter asking for help. So if
you want to take that task (or part of it), that would be great!
Thank you very much,
María.
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Next Member Meeting

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear fellow members,

Save the date! Monday 14th we will have the next face to face member
meeting at FOSS4G-NA: https://2018.foss4g-na.org/bof-session/osgeo-members-
meeting

If you have any topics you want to discuss, please add them to the wiki
page: https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Member_Meeting_FOSS4GNA_2018

Have a happy weekend!
María.
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[OSGeo-Discuss] What would you need to come to a FOSS4G?

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

As part of the "improve diversity" actions, one of the things we should do
is make a list of all the things that would help people coming to
FOSS4G/OSGeo events. Off the record I have made a draft list of items,but
we need more brainstorming to make sure we cover all kind of inclusive
ideas. Don't be shy to expose your needs (on private if needed), there's
probably more people out there with similar needs.

Draft list (no order in particular, randomized on purpose):
* Accessible venue (wheelchair, blindness,...)
* Travel Grant
* Childcare
* Welcome party for newcomers so they feel part of the community (OSGeo
booth?)
* Translation services (I know, this is expensive, but just list it here
and see if we can move closer)
* Dietary restrictions
* Code of Conduct committee/team that can help solve on the fly harassment
issues
* Legal restrictions (VISA, travel restrictions, cultural specifics,
LGBTQi+ laws,...) and their workarounds

The idea is to make at least all "official" events answer if they provide
this services, and, if they provide them, if it is with an extra cost. Of
course, smaller events will have smaller budgets and will be less likely to
cover all of it. But at least they can have the list in mind and choose the
alternative closer to having a full list of requirements.

For event organizers: consider that it is always better to offer this
services with an extra cost than not offering them at all.

I'm waiting for your ideas. Thanks and have a nice weekend!
María.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Advocacy for Advocates

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi Nicolas,

Good catch!

On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Nicolas Roelandt
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Last month, I was able to attend the Ubuntu Convention (UbunCon) Europe in
> Gijon (Spain).
>
> There was a lot of very good quality presentation and one catch my
> attention. This one was made by Nathan Haines about Advocacy for Advocates.
>
> It is very simple, a few strong word concepts on how to advocate on FOSS. I
> think it can be interesting for community. Because it is addressing some
> issues we have, comfort us in some good things we do and it might enlight
> some things we missed.
>
>
> Nathan was kind enough to give access to his presentation (with notes in the
> .odp one) [1], so if you can take 5 minutes to read it, please do.
>
>
> Cheers from France,
>
> Nicolas Roelandt
> OSGeo Charter Member
> OSGeoLive PSC member
>
>  [1] https://people.ubuntu.com/~nhaines/documents/events/2018/ubucon-europe/
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] FOSS4G Dar es Salaam

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:31 AM, Mark Iliffe  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’m going to sleep after I send this, it’s been a very stressful few weeks
> for various reasons, one of the biggest being our conference in Dar es
> Salaam. I’m sitting here having my first whiskey in a while, looking out
> towards the sea and I feel good. I feel good because of you and our
> community.
>
> I would be lying if I was looking to see action after every tweet, only to
> see that the ticket purchases slowly climb at a very slow pace. We as a
> DLOC know we can deliver one of the best FOSS4Gs ever, the question for us
> was whether anyone would share our vision and join us. In reflection, over
> the past few days, these fears were unfounded. Over 600 people said with
> one voice that they wanted to join us in Dar es Salaam. As the clock ticks
> down to the event, this number will only rise and rise!
>
> A number of these people have never been to a FOSS4G before. We’ve got the
> largest Travel Grant Programmes ever and combined with the collaborations
> we’ve built with Understanding Risk, Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team, and
> others, we will enlarge our community and extend the reach of our impact
> and our values. When we say our mission is “to leave no-one behind”, we
> mean it and we are delivering on that vision, and that means frequent
> FOSS4Gers and new comers too!
>
> This is something that we should all be proud of and I wanted to say thank
> you to the OSGeo community for believing in the DLOC, we’re creating
> something special in Dar es Salaam this August. Whether you’re a sponsor or
> a participant you will have an amazing time and I wanted to thank you for
> making this happen.
>
> For those that aren’t coming, it will be an unforgettable experience,
> please don’t miss out. Please contact me directly if you’ve got any fears,
> concerns, or just want to know more.
>
> Finally, thank you all. You’re what makes this community great!
>
> Mark
>
> Co-Chair FOSS4G 2018
> Dar es Salaam Local Organising Committee (DLOC)
> ___
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> conference_...@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


Dear Mark,

I'm happy to see all the work you have done. I can't wait to see the
result! :)
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Charter members list

[María Arias de Reyna]

Thank you very much for this huge work Vicky!

El lun., 11 jun. 2018 20:03, Vicky Vergara  escribió:

> Hello charter members
>
> I revised again the charter member list and now we have the info of 147
> charter members, we are still missing 243 charter members.
> For me is difficult to match names only with no last name, or last name
> only with no names.
> This one is so interesting:
> yo (this means "me" in Spanish), and has no last name.
>
>
> I follow the old charter members page:
> http://old.www.osgeo.org/charter_members
>
> Please undate your data:
> * fill "website" field with link to the OSGeo wiki page you created when
> you were nominated.
> * Fill your first name and last name & e-mail
>
> If you:
> * are creating your member page,
> * or if it exists already and you are not in the automated section,
> * or if you see a mistake
> please send me the link privately, so that we don inundate discuss channel
> and I can get to the page and mark you as charter member.
>
> Thanks
> Vicky
> SAC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 10:31 PM, Vicky Vergara 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> ​Dear OSGeo charter members​
>>
>> During the past two weeks, I worked to have an automatic generated
>> charter member's page (using the database capabilities of wordpress) and
>> the automatically generated board members.
>>
>> ** About "Board"  page
>> https://www.osgeo.org/about/board/
>>
>> I am using the "location" field and for some it still empty.
>>
>> ** About "Charter member" page
>>
>> Now the member type does not have: "board" and "charter member" as
>> options, Those are now assigned by CRO. (I am helping CRO)
>>
>> The old charter members page can be seen here:
>> http://old.www.osgeo.org/charter_members
>>
>> The new charter members page can be seen here:
>> https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members
>>
>> For the ones that are automatically generated (have a link) please double
>> check that I did not made a mistake by comparing your info with the info on
>> the old page.
>>
>> As you can see, there are 304 charter members that have not registered to
>> the new website.
>> We would appreciate if you register to the website, some administrative
>> tasks will be easier for Board, CRO and SAC when charter members are
>> registered.
>>
>> The information we need for the administrative tasks:
>> * fill "website" field with link to the OSGeo wiki page you created when
>> you were nominated.
>> * Fill your first name and last name & e-mail
>>
>> I will update on the weekend the charter members who registered during
>> the week.
>> e-mail me if you are already registered and I missed your name.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Vicky Vergara
>> SAC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
>> Salzmannstraße 44,
>> 81739 München, Germany
>>
>> Vicky Vergara
>> Operations Research
>>
>> eMail: vi...@georepublic.de
>> Web: https://georepublic.info
>>
>> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
>> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
>>
>> Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
>> CEO: Daniel Kastl
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
> Salzmannstraße 44,
> 81739 München, Germany
>
> Vicky Vergara
> Operations Research
>
> eMail: vi...@georepublic.de
> Web: https://georepublic.info
>
> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
>
> Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
> CEO: Daniel Kastl
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Geo4All] osgeo board request world wind consider joining the foundation

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I think it makes sense to have WorldWind at least as a community project.
But it has to be WorldWind who requests it as a project. We can only invite
WorldWind to join, as we have already done. If Jody was not explicit
enough, I can do it again:

*WorldWind, do you want to be an OSGeo community project? *

Patrick, if it is not you anymore, who do we have to redirect this question
to? Who is the leader/speaker of the core team of developers that run it?

If, after being a community project, WorldWind wants to start incubation
and go through the process of becoming a full OSGeo project, we will gladly
help. But at least, it makes sense to do this first step. And I am pretty
sure that most of the requirements to go through the incubation process are
already fulfilled. We just need WorldWind to say they want to go through
this process and help tick the checkboxes.

But, as said, *OSGeo cannot claim WorldWind if WorldWind doesn't say
explicitly that they want to join. *Simple as that. Just give us an
official yes and we can start rolling the wheel.



On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Markus Neteler  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 2:16 AM, Jody Garnett 
> wrote:
> ...
> > If it helps GRASS, would would be the matriarch of our community, also
> went
> > through incubation to work through communication goals such as these.
>
> Right: GRASS GIS went into incubation in 2006 while its development
> was started back in 1982 :-)
>
> Here the related wiki page from 2006-2008:
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_Incubation_Progress
>
> From my point of view (as PSC chair) it was a very demanding but
> absolute necessary exercise for us to review the source code (close to
> 1 million LOC), the community health, infrastructure migration into
> OSGeo, project management structures and more. The incubation process
> was kindly supported by our incubation mentors Norman Vine and Arnulf
> Christl.
>
> Best,
> Markus
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Workshop Tickets @ FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear Mark,

Your effort for this FOSS4G is impressive!

In my opinion, changing previous rules and experimenting with different
approaches is a good thing. If we see that the outcome is not what we
expected, we can always rollback for following years. But what if the
outcome is better than ever? Which, I think, will be the case. There will
be a lot of new faces this year, I'm sure of that. And new faces means new
ideas.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Mark Iliffe  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Firstly… we’re super excited to be welcoming you all to Dar es Salaam this
> August… it’s going to be amazing!!
>
> Secondly, at the end of last week, there was a very good discussion on
> Twitter about free tickets at FOSS4G [1] - there are numerous threads that
> span from here with good comments for offering free tickets to workshop
> presenters and keynotes and against.
>
> I’d like to explain why we made the choice not to offer free tickets to
> workshop presenters.
>
> When we were putting together the workshop program, we were overwhelmed by
> the quality and quantity of submissions received by the call. We received
> 73 submissions and accepted 27. This was incredibly difficult as we wanted
> to widen the scope of content within the workshop program (aka… not have
> the same as last year) and balance new presenters with established ones.
> Everything was a compromise to establish this program, but on balance I
> believe (and I hope you as the community will agree), that we got the
> balance right.
>
> We have the stated aim in our proposal and since that we want to use
> FOSS4G in Dar es Salaam to widen participation of many under-represented
> groups within our community - as a global community, we need to be as
> diverse as the world. Part of the economic impetus within the DLOC is to
> widen access and participation - this means working out how to achieve
> that. Bluntly, if we want to have a conference with the same content and
> people, we shouldn’t be holding this in Dar es Salaam.
>
> As many, (but not all), workshop presenters are from companies sponsoring
> their travel to FOSS4G (offering workshops that directly relate to services
> offered by their employer), the drive to widen participation, with previous
> conferences not offering free workshop tickets (Nottingham in 2013 for
> example) and no stated promise to offer free tickets for presenters, I led
> my committee and we resolved to not provide free tickets to presenters.
>
> However, potentially this is wrong - and I’d like to stress as a
> volunteer(and unpaid!) conference chair/organiser, we’re capable of getting
> things wrong… but we/I want to ensure that it’s put right.
>
> In effect, there is no profit from the workshop tickets, effectively, this
> pays for the conference venue and the food and drink for the workshop days.
> The cost of this is roughly $75. We’re charging $75 - this is cheaper than
> previous workshops! To offer a free ticket to workshop presenters, we would
> have charged $100 and reclaimed the cost of the workshop presenter ticket
> from there. We charged as low as we could, because we recognised that for
> some attending FOSS4G, $25 can be a very large difference… but for
> others... not at all (hence the donation button for the Travel Grant
> Programme!). But, to widen participation, we need to be as inclusive as
> possible and that means making hard choices.
>
> We’re being inclusive by raising the number of TGP attendees from 10 in
> Boston to 51 for Dar. As the DLOC, we’ve booked the YMCA for our TGP
> attendees - this means that the TGP this year can support micro-grants,
> paying $250 to support the bus travel, food, and drink of a community
> member in Uganda that ordinarily would not be able to get to the conference
> in theory on their doorstep - because of this, every little helps, saving
> $100 here, $300 there etc. This may sound like hyperbole, but it’s a direct
> and concrete way that FOSS4G is widening access, in both economically
> disadvantaged and gendered situations.
>
> Ultimately: If you are a workshop presenter at FOSS4G this year and are
> unable to get your ticket/want a free ticket, please get in touch with me - 
> *we’ll
> sort you out and make it right.* If this has given the impression that we
> are taking advantage of our workshop presenters - *it is not the
> intention, nor the case and we’re sorry*.
>
> Going forward, I’d recommend there be a further discussion within the
> conference selection process on whether workshop presenters, keynotes etc
> are given free passes and clarify whether it should be one way or the other
> - but that is not for me or my committee to decide! It’s 70 days to go to
> the best FOSS4G yet… and we’ve got a conference to put on!
>
> Thanks to all of you who make this community great :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] https://twitter.com/sarasomewhere/status/1006304174332661760
>
> ___
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> Discus

[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Sponsoring FOSS4G 2018

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear fellow members,

After a long discussion we have decided to give a push to this year's
conference to help make it the most diverse FOSS4G ever.

Usually OSGeo gives some seed money to main FOSS4G that usually goes back
(often multiplied) to OSGeo at the end of the event as remaining of the
budget not used. This year we didn't give any seed money at the beginning
because the World Bank has sponsored a big part of the budget and gave the
seed money.

Nevertheless, the board has decided to sponsor the conference on a Platinum
level. This money will be used mostly to improve the Travel Grant Program
allowing even more people to attend the conference and to improve the
record of the event, spreading even further all the knowledge shared in the
conference in the form of videos.

I want to remember also other organizations and companies that sponsoring
FOSS4G events, small or big, is a big push to our community that gives a
lot of exposure. Everybody remember our sponsors and many of us are keen to
work with teams who care for the community.

Also, I want to remember our fellow members that everyone can donate
directly to the Travel Grant Program through Paypal:
https://www.osgeo.org/initiatives/foss4g-travel-grant-program/ Even the
smallest amount can make a huge difference to people who can't afford to
travel to FOSS4G.

Have a happy day!
María Arias de Reyna.
OSGeo President.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] How to retire membership status?

[María Arias de Reyna]

This is me writing as a person, not as board. This is my personal opinion.
Again: not the board, not the president speaking. Nothing official. Just me.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Christian Willmes 
wrote:

> I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi, from Marc Vloemans [1] is just
> unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this community.
>
Personally I agree with you that it was an uncomfortable situation easy to
misinterpret. I wasn't comfortable either reading it. (me, the person, not
the board)

The thing is, we still have this "assume good intent" clause on the CoC
that makes it kind of useless on the gray area. So if Marc says that his
intention hasn't to harass Sara, that's it. He didn't do anything that is
officially bad. And I haven't asked Marc about his intentions, so I have to
assume good intent on this words. Misinterpretable? Uncomfortable? Sure,
but not wrong according to current CoC. We are all humans, everybody slips
sometimes and the wording doesn't come out as it should. And there should
be some kind of mediation system so we all learn what we did that made
other people uncomfortable so we can improve and do better next time. This,
assuming the intention was not to harass (which is what I personally
decided to believe as I don't think Marc is a bad person).

Personally I plan to review the CoC and make stronger rules to prevent
situations that can make people uncomfortable, no matter intention, no
matter wording. But as all my OSGeo work is done on my free time, I have to
wait until my holidays to do something about it. And as all my requests for
volunteers to do this have failed, I don't expect anyone to do anything
about it.

So again, please, can someone volunteer to help in improving this? It is a
huge work to do it right and if it has to be me alone working on it, I can
assure you, it won't be quick. More situations like this will happen until
I can have something final.

> I demand a public apology by Marc Vloemans for his accusations against
> Sara Safavi and the OSGeo organisation and community. Furthermore, I demand
> the OSGeo board to force LT to publish the financial records as a matter of
> course. I also suggest to discontinue any relationships with LocationTech
> if there is no public apology for this incident.
>
As a personal opinion, I think LocationTech has nothing to do with that
discussion. I haven't seen any official statement from LT in that thread
(maybe I missed it?). Furthermore, the agreement with LT for FOSS4GNA
didn't include any budget disclosure so they are not forced to show us
anything. We can change that for future events, but not for past events, if
they don't want to do it. So, personally I would leave LT out of the topic.

Going back to the main topic, this topic about being comfortable on the
community worries me (not only this specific case, but more cases I have
seen). So for sure I/we are going to move it inside the community (not only
as a task for the board, why should it be a task for the board?).

Specifically for the board actions, remember that we are volunteers and it
is difficult to make all of us be available to work at the same time. So
for this delicate issues, nobody can't expect a response from the board
that is quick. We need to think, discuss and decide. And that takes time.
We are not full time workers for OSGeo, we are volunteers. That's important
to remember.

I'm sorry for Sara and I really would prefer if she doesn't leave. But I
understand her concerns, so I can't blame her for her decision. I have done
similar things in the past in other organizations. Now I am more a fighter
and prefer to stay, but it is still her decision to fight or not. If she's
not comfortable, I can just hope to make OSGeo more friendly in the future
so she can come back.

(And, if you are wondering, no, this is not because Sara is my friend. In
fact, I barely know her. So don't try to read between lines, I would do the
same with anyone in the same situation).

Again, all this was my personal opinion. Not the board, don't blame the
board for anything here. The rest of the members don't know about this
email. This is my personal action.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] How to retire membership status?

[María Arias de Reyna]

El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
escribió:

>
> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>

I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
better on each kind of organizations.

What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
have advanced, is already old.

There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the
> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I
> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our
> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns
> as they arise.
>

My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.

Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
right now:

We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words
as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.

So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is one
of the things that are wrong.

This article can explain the situation better than me:
https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/

This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.


>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[María Arias de Reyna]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter 
escribió:

> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct
> improvements).
>
> Maria,
>
> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone
> wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic
> geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that
> others are attracted to make it happen.
>
> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own CoC,
> everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" which
> takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts, which
> are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons licenses
> for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
>
> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within our
> CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or
> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up
> being called).
>
> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people,
> who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and
> attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
>
> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, but
> would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
>
> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
>
>
> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
> escribió:
>
>>
>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>>
>
> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
> in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
> better on each kind of organizations.
>
> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
> have advanced, is already old.
>
> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the
>> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I
>> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our
>> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns
>> as they arise.
>>
>
> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.
>
> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
> right now:
>
> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words
> as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.
>
> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is
> one of the things that are wrong.
>
> This article can explain the situation better than me:
> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>
> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.
>
>
>>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier
> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[María Arias de Reyna]

El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:27, Mark Iliffe  escribió:

> This would be good - learning from the Dar FOSS4G experience would be a
> good starting place for this. Unfortunately,y not many people believe that
> the laws and codes of conduct we create need to be refreshed and amended to
> keep in pace with our community.
>
> On 22 Jun 2018, at 18:18, María Arias de Reyna  wrote:
>
> That's exactly what I'm trying to do.
>
> Massive +1
>

I want to start with a common CoC for OSGeo (at least as a best practices
model) while keeping conversations with other organizations. As part of a
woman in tech association many orgs have asked for advice already. And
there's already some initiatives for creating common resources. The ones I
know, in Spanish, but that shouldn't be a blocker for a start.

Having exactly the same rules for all situations is difficult, but having a
template is feasible.


> El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter 
> escribió:
>
>> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct
>> improvements).
>>
>> Maria,
>>
>> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone
>> wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic
>> geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that
>> others are attracted to make it happen.
>>
>> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own
>> CoC, everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation"
>> which takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts,
>> which are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons
>> licenses for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
>>
>> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within
>> our CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or
>> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up
>> being called).
>>
>> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people,
>> who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and
>> attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
>>
>> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort,
>> but would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
>>
>> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
>> escribió:
>>
>>>
>>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
>>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
>>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>>>
>>
>> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
>> in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
>> better on each kind of organizations.
>>
>> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
>> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
>> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
>> have advanced, is already old.
>>
>> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into
>>> the numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based
>>> upon. I think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely
>>> on our underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address
>>> concerns as they arise.
>>>
>>
>> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.
>>
>> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
>> right now:
>>
>> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful
>> words as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.
>>
>> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is
>> one of the things that are wrong.
>>
>> This article can explain the situation better than me:
>> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>>
>> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
>> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.
>>
>>
>>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Technology Demystifier
>> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>>
>> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Draft of Open Letter on the importance to protecting independent peer review frameworks for Scholarly publications of Scientific Associations

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I can't agree more with you :)

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Suchith Anand <
suchith.an...@nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>
> I have prepared a draft letter with my ideas/suggestions .I am just a
> volunteer and I feel sad that  that I have to raise this issue through an
> open letter.  But if I remain silent on this , I will be indirectly
> supporting the degrading of  independent peer review frameworks  for
> Scholarly publications of Scientific Associations.
>
>
> It is the fundamental duty of all Officers of Scientific
> Associations/Organisations  to always take steps to guard and protect
> independent peer review frameworks  for Scholarly publications of
> Scientific Associations. I am hopeful and confident that that they all will
> do this for the future.
>
>
> I am not a native English speaker, so please help refine this  letter
> correctly. I want us to look at the future not focus on mistakes made in
> past . Some mistakes have been made and I understand that this is
> corrected. We are all human , so we all make mistakes  . So let us not
> focus on past mistakes but look at ideas on how we can strengthen the
> independent peer review frameworks  for Scholarly publications of
> Scientific Associations in the future.
>
>
> The International Cartographic Association (ICA) is my organisation for
> which  I have volunteered for the last 15 years and continuing . I have
> great respect for everyone in this great global community . The SDG book is
> a community effort (not any individual’s book project) . I have requested
> from the start (as soon as I came to know) for openness and transparency in
> decision making for selecting the publisher. esp. as this book is on UN SDG
> . I understand that ICA has now corrected the mistake . Everyone makes
> mistakes and it takes courage to acknowledge and correct the mistakes
> .Compassion and forgiveness are important values .  I am very grateful
> that ICA has listened to my concerns and rectified this . So I don’t have
> any issues with ICA or any colleagues in ICA. We might have difference in
> opinions on some issues and having free and open discussions is in my
> humble opinion the best way to learn each others perspectives and find best
> solutions to move forward.
>
>
>
> Please send any updates/modifications needed to the draft by 30th July
> 2018. I am on family holidays ( with no internet ) in first week of August,
> so I will aim to send this before I go on holidays.
>
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
> *Draft of Open Letter on the importance to protecting independent peer
> review frameworks  **for Scholarly publications of Scientific
> Associations*
>
>
> Scholarly publications (edited books, journals etc) from scientific
> associations/organisations has  credibility and reputation because of
> strong independent peer review frameworks . We are very fortunate in the
> Geospatial domain to have many reputed Scientific Associations and
> organisations (ICA, IGU, ISPRS, IEEE-GRSS, IAG etc) who have over many
> decades provided strong leadership in advancement of geo science.
>
>
> In times of fake news, science is usually one of those areas that can give
> us orientation and we can rely on.  Independent peer review frameworks  for
> Scholarly publications is among the foundations of good science. However,
> this is  obviously at risk now.   If a professional association takes  agrees
> to publish scholarly publications (edited books etc)  through a GIS
> vendor’s press then there is potential issues with independent peer review
> and ensuring scientific quality. It is only natural that any GIS vendor
> publication press to have vested interests in promoting their products and
> agenda. It also makes it easy for the vendor to get endorsement for their
> products from scientific and professional organisations using this route. 
> Independent
> peer review is the fundamental aspect of science and we need to ensure all
> steps to protect this.
>
>
> We are also now seeing a very disturbing trend with  some vendors even
> starting to trademark “ science” for marketing/sales of their  products
> and   “science” is being misused for vendor marketing/sales! . I have
> raised this issue through an open letter [1] .  Science is not a
> commodity to be marketed or sold by any vendor owners! I am very sad and
> disappointed to see this degrading of science happening. Scientific
> organisations should not endorse any specific vendor products etc as
> “Science” and take strong moral stand against  marketing of products as
> “Science’ by any vendor owners!
>
>
>
> I am a volunteer for the ICA for the last 15 years and always done my best
> in my small way to support ICA . Around one year back, i*n the light of
> the **International Map Year (IMY)* *, the *The
> International Cartographic Association (ICA) started an excellent
> initiative *for  highlighting the value of cartography by “mapping”

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Geo4All] Draft of Open Letter on the importance to protecting independent peer review frameworks for Scholarly publications of Scientific Associations

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Peter Baumann <
p.baum...@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> Hi Christian,
>
>
> while I could not agree more to what you say there is one point to
> disagree with:
>
> On 24.07.2018 18:43, Christian Willmes wrote:
>
> Dear Suchith,
>
> I understand your point, and I also support your views on this, but this
> is from my perspective a too personal/particular issue, as to have it as an
> "OSGeo open letter". Also, because this is more of an ICA and not so much
> an OSGeo issue, I think.
>
> First, I would keep it more general. You address a particular issue (UN
> SDG book published by esri), and also some personal background (this should
> not matter to the addressed subject). I would recommend you keep it from
> being personal and denouncing proprietary GIS vendors. If a company plays
> by the rules of science, there is nothing wrong about that company
> publishing a scientific book. I.e. almost all book publishers are
> commercial companies with interests somehow and somewhere.
>
> You need to “attack” scientific “wrong doing” by that particular company
> in conducting the editing and publication of that book. Publishing books if
> done correctly is not wrong, even by a vendor with vested interests. But if
> you witness, for example, that submissions using open source GIS solutions
> are disadvantaged against the submissions using products of the proprietary
> GIS vendor publishing the book, that would be the point to raise and attack.
>
> Second, better write about how it should be done to avoid this negative
> “Fake Science” things from happening. Here the idea of Open Science and
> Reproducible Science is key, i.e. the most openness and transparency
> possible. We just need more transparency in science and also in the whole
> process of editing/reviewing and publishing a book. And this is where OSGeo
> can contribute. Basically, real reproducible and open science is not
> possible without open source software. If you can’t see how something is
> implemented, you can not really reproduce the results.
>
>
> No. Open science and open source software are fundamentally different
> things. For example, if you derive stats from some data set via SQL it does
> not matter whether it comes from open-source PostgreSQL or from proprietary
> Oracle. Because the SQL language in its syntax and semantics is
> standardized, and it is assured thereby that both systems will deliver the
> same results. So standards actually are a prerequisite for science to be
> comparable, but surely not open source.
>


If you use proprietary products and can't verify that the result is not due
to a bug (even an intended bug ), you are missing an important step on
verifiability. Open Source (as in "I can see the code") is an important
piece of open science.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Geo4All] Draft of Open Letter on the importance to protecting independent peer review frameworks for Scholarly publications of Scientific Associations

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear Peter,

Thanks for the explanation, I'm a software engineer and I know very well
how the process work. SQL is indeed a good example of a good standard
almost everyone follows. But I would bet that's an exception in software.

I raised the intended bugs thing because in recent years it had been very
common to find intended "bugs" in proprietary licensed software to steal
data or open ports to monitor usage. You never know how that will affect
your tests. When you use software that you don't know what is doing in the
background, you can't be really sure what the result will be.

Kind regards,
Maria.


El sáb., 28 jul. 2018 19:48, Peter Baumann 
escribió:

> Dear Maria,
> On 25.07.2018 10:06, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Peter Baumann <
> p.baum...@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Christian,
>>
>>
>> while I could not agree more to what you say there is one point to
>> disagree with:
>>
>> On 24.07.2018 18:43, Christian Willmes wrote:
>>
>> Dear Suchith,
>>
>> I understand your point, and I also support your views on this, but this
>> is from my perspective a too personal/particular issue, as to have it as an
>> "OSGeo open letter". Also, because this is more of an ICA and not so much
>> an OSGeo issue, I think.
>>
>> First, I would keep it more general. You address a particular issue (UN
>> SDG book published by esri), and also some personal background (this should
>> not matter to the addressed subject). I would recommend you keep it from
>> being personal and denouncing proprietary GIS vendors. If a company plays
>> by the rules of science, there is nothing wrong about that company
>> publishing a scientific book. I.e. almost all book publishers are
>> commercial companies with interests somehow and somewhere.
>>
>> You need to “attack” scientific “wrong doing” by that particular company
>> in conducting the editing and publication of that book. Publishing books if
>> done correctly is not wrong, even by a vendor with vested interests. But if
>> you witness, for example, that submissions using open source GIS solutions
>> are disadvantaged against the submissions using products of the proprietary
>> GIS vendor publishing the book, that would be the point to raise and attack.
>>
>> Second, better write about how it should be done to avoid this negative
>> “Fake Science” things from happening. Here the idea of Open Science and
>> Reproducible Science is key, i.e. the most openness and transparency
>> possible. We just need more transparency in science and also in the whole
>> process of editing/reviewing and publishing a book. And this is where OSGeo
>> can contribute. Basically, real reproducible and open science is not
>> possible without open source software. If you can’t see how something is
>> implemented, you can not really reproduce the results.
>>
>>
>> No. Open science and open source software are fundamentally different
>> things. For example, if you derive stats from some data set via SQL it does
>> not matter whether it comes from open-source PostgreSQL or from proprietary
>> Oracle. Because the SQL language in its syntax and semantics is
>> standardized, and it is assured thereby that both systems will deliver the
>> same results. So standards actually are a prerequisite for science to be
>> comparable, but surely not open source.
>>
>
>
> If you use proprietary products and can't verify that the result is not
> due to a bug (even an intended bug ), you are missing an important step on
> verifiability. Open Source (as in "I can see the code") is an important
> piece of open science.
>
>
> that's not what software engineers would do normally. If you feel a tool
> has a bug you'd
> - try to isolate through a minimal failing example
> - possibly try with another tool (in the case of PostgreSQL, maybe try
> MariaDB) for verification
> - definitely contact the support list (in the case of PostgreSQL, Regina &
> friends)
>
> Unless it is some simple scripting issue you (that is: I) normally don't
> stand a chance to dive into the code. Honestly, would we / could we spot a
> bug in the source code for executing an index-only plan of a distributed
> SQL query, after heuristic and cost-based optimizers have done their work?
> I could not.
>
> Good software engineering practice is to work specification-based, not by
> trying to hack yourself into code.
>
> And both of that _can_ work well with both open-source and proprietary
> tools. Again, SQL is the shining example: a good specifica

[OSGeo-Discuss] GeoChicas take Tanzania! Women event for welcoming FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear women attending incoming FOSS4G,

Join us to meet other women attending FOSS4G + HOT Summit who are
interested in closing the gender gap and working towards diversity in
our communities.

GeoChicas started gathering more than 2 years ago in the State of the
Map events and are excited to participate in FOSS4G in Tanzania. This
is a great opportunity to continue establishing a global women’s
network in the Open Data and Open Source communities. We want to meet
you and hear about your projects! Don't be shy and come to say hi the
26th of August in the evening.

Please, book your seat so we know how many we are and we can plan
ahead: bit.ly/geochicastaketanzania

Between 7-9 pm is a women* only event. After 9pm everyone is welcome
* Whoever perceive herself as woman

See you in Tanzania!
María.

Btw: the woman mailing list is gone, right?
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

I agree this is a good topic to bring into the open, and not an easy
one. For what I have seen, FOSS4G Asia organization is doing a good
job, this is just a hard subject to address. Even if that keynote
lineup was full of women (like in main FOSS4G!) we still have to check
about the rest of speakers and the attendees. But you are right,
adding at least one woman keynoter can make a difference.

For those of you who may be reading this and need some context, this
is a long-distance race, not a sprint. Reaching outside your comfort
zone networks (usually mostly male contacts in the case of male
developers) to get more women speakers is not something you can do on
a blink. Specially if the organizers didn't have the problem in mind
when the organization started. We usually say that if you start
worrying about diversity after you choose the venue, you are already
too late.

I will be in FOSS4G Asia and I hope to get in contact with the
organization to know about their idiosyncrasy, their worries and their
challenges. Trying to help from here is difficult, as my networks are
mostly european and american. But still, we can work together in
strategies and how to improve diversity. I am going to give a talk
with Malena on Tanzania about general strategies and how to work on
improving diversity and my plan is to write down later whatever comes
from that conversation so we have some guidelines or good practices
that any OSGeo event can use.

Maybe it is time we renew the woman@osgeo mailing list to join forces?

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:25 AM, Jody Garnett  wrote:
> Hey Mark, good on you for voicing publicly. Our ability to discuss openly is
> a strength of our community, and one we are learning to use responsibly. I
> saw your tweet yesterday, but find the discussion list more useful for
> internal discussion such as this.
>
> It is a hard balance between requesting or encouraging changes we want to
> see vs expressing dissapointment in the activities of others. This is
> especially important in a volunteer organization such as ours where
> disappointment however kindly expressed can hit really moral hard
> (especially as volunteers are pulling an event together).
>
> I have been on both sides of this balance and it is never comfortable, as
> you express in your struggle above. Ideally, I seek to offer my time if I am
> in position to be of assistance and if the assistance is welcome.  If not in
> a position to help I seek to learn or look for an opportunity for feedback.
>
> I learned a lot as your foss4g event planning has unfolded and your
> challenges, priorities and direction became clear.
>
> It is my hope that we will learn what challenges the foss4g-asia event is
> facing and what we as an organization can do to assist.
>
> If you have been following the board meetings the Sri Lanka chapter is just
> being officially recognized (and the membership shows some diversity). OSGeo
> has also set aside funding for our president to attend the foss4g-asia
> event.
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 at 14:53, Mark Iliffe  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I’ve really agonised over whether to send this email. First of which,
>> being the imminent final preparations for FOSS4G taking up a lot of time,
>> but also whether it’s appropriate for me in my role of chair of FOOS4G to
>> offer public critique of regional events. It is in this vein that I’d like
>> to really stress that I’m writing this as an OSSGeo charter member.
>>
>> When I first saw this, my heart sank:
>> http://www.foss4g-asia.org/2018/keynotes/
>>
>> Where is the gender diversity in the line up? I know that organising a
>> FOSS4G is really difficult, but we need to be reaching far and wide and that
>> starts with our keynotes. Potentially I’m missing something here - and I
>> probably am, if so I am sorry if this is the case! - but can we have a
>> rethink of the line up to really represent our community?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Mark
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Jonathan Moules
 wrote:
> Glass-half-full observation: In a topic talking about the FOSS4G Asia
> diversity, no-one has commented on the commendable range of racial diversity
> in those keynotes.
>
> As to gender in keynotes, a Devils Advocate would point out there is no
> gender diversity in the 2018 Dar es Salaam keynote speakers either (assuming
> the four on the 2018.foss4g.org front page) - they're also all the same
> gender. Except that given the gender disparity in this field, it seems
> reasonable to me to conclude that Dar have probably done this intentionally
> whereas Asia's seems statistically plausible without even needing to factor
> in unconscious biases.

Once we have a 50% of speakers that are women (even 40%), we can start
saying that having a full keynoter line of women speakers is no
diversity. Up till then, having all women as keynoters is not a
diversity issue, but an effort to try to promote gender diversity and
balance with the rest of speakers. Or... maybe the keynoters were good
on their own? Beware of thinking that chosen woman speakers are there
only because of quotas.

That's why I said we still have to check about percentages considering
the full program. But as a starter, having a full male line of
speakers is not a good sign. Statistics is only an excuse. I can
understand that this can be something the organization didn't have in
mind and, as they are volunteers, they have limited effort to spend on
the organization of the conference and gender diversity was not on
their priorities. As said, it is a subject difficult to approach and
it is no good to try to fix it in a rush because you may end up doing
more harm than you expected.

For me, saying you are only seeing the glass half full is like saying
"we have done enough, don't press more". While I think we should press
much more! We already know the conference is going to have a lot of
outstanding talks, the discussion here is where is the visibility for
woman. I don't think any of us is demeaning the speakers lineup, we
are just pointing to a real current problem we (all) have.

> And what of diversity of age? I'm fairly confident in guessing that the Asia
> keynotes are all 40s-50s. I'm less confident guessing Dar's, but I'd say in
> their 20's to 30's.

I agree that age diversity is another concern. And also having always
the same "token" person talking. The classy "haha, I found a woman or
a poc that gives good talks, let's put her everywhere!". Nope.

But still, age diversity is something that gives everyone equal trait
at some point because everyone reaches the "good" range of ages at
some point of their lives. So, even if it is something we can improve,
it is a problem way behind of the gender diversity problem, where some
people just don't have an oportunity ever.

> Definition (from the OED):
> Diverse (Adj), "Showing a great deal of variety; very different."
>
> By that definition, neither have gender diversity, both have racial
> diversity (Asia's more-so), and both have little age diversity.

So this means we are doing very good in racial diversity this year,
but falling behind on gender diversity on regional events. Let's see
if we can keep up on racial diversity next year for the main
conference and improve gender diversity in regional events? As said,
this is a long-distance race. It is not very helpful if we have a good
racial diversity this year but forget about them in the following
years.

Also, good time to remind amazing work of TGP for bringing economic
diversity to FOSS4G (which is another huge concern).

>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> On 2018-08-09 10:43, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
> I agree this is a good topic to bring into the open, and not an easy
> one. For what I have seen, FOSS4G Asia organization is doing a good
> job, this is just a hard subject to address. Even if that keynote
> lineup was full of women (like in main FOSS4G!) we still have to check
> about the rest of speakers and the attendees. But you are right,
> adding at least one woman keynoter can make a difference.
>
> For those of you who may be reading this and need some context, this
> is a long-distance race, not a sprint. Reaching outside your comfort
> zone networks (usually mostly male contacts in the case of male
> developers) to get more women speakers is not something you can do on
> a blink. Specially if the organizers didn't have the problem in mind
> when the organization started. We usually say that if you start
> worrying about diversity after you choose the venue, you are already
> too late.
>
> I will be in FOSS4G Asia and I hope to get in contact with the
> organization to know about their idiosyncrasy, t

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Jonathan Moules
 wrote:
>>  Once we have a 50% of speakers that are women (even 40%), we can start
>> saying that having a full keynoter line of women speakers is no diversity.
>
> At the risk of asking a question that I know isn't meant to be asked - why
> 50%? Or "even 40%"? Surely the % should be around the same as the percentage
> of the workforce that engage in the field? This survey indicates it's about
> 37% globally so 40% would be reasonable -
> https://www.gislounge.com/gender-gis-workforce/
> (Why the rate is 37% globally is an entirely different kettle of fish).
>

This is a common mistake. If you aim for the already declining
percentage of women, you will not get far. You have to aim for the
percentage of population. The fact that only 37% of our industry is
female is itself a problem we have to address.

The lack of role models (speakers? women in the mailing lists? women
in developer leading roles?) and specially the lack of a friendly
environment for women at work is a problem in most tech related
industries:
https://code.likeagirl.io/women-are-leaving-tech-and-management-is-responsible-a6187a4d5d81
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/02/28/why-women-leave-the-tech-industry-at-a-45-higher-rate-than-men/

Not my best talk (blame jet lag), but this can give you more
perspective: https://vimeo.com/241597584

And this also applies to racial diversity. If the global foss4g is
mostly white... we have a problem.

But going back to the topic of this thread, until we have half of the
developers/speakers/users being woman, we have a problem. And the
longer we ignore it, the worse it gets.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 10:36 PM, Jonathan Moules
 wrote:
>> This is a common mistake. If you aim for the already declining percentage
>> of women, you will not get far. You have to aim for the percentage of
>> population. The fact that only 37% of our industry is female is itself a
>> problem we have to address.
>
> ...
>
>> But going back to the topic of this thread, until we have half of the
>> developers/speakers/users being woman, we have a problem.
>
>
> I agree it's a common mistake, but I suspect I'm referring to a different
> mistake. Equality is about equal opportunity. It's not about forcing equal
> statistically representative numbers of people of various diversity types
> into all industries equally. Everyone should have the opportunity to do
> whatever they want.
>

That's the thing, we don't.

I guess you haven't seen the video. Unfortunately I don't have a good
internet connection here to look for more bibliography, but I can
point you easily to Neil, who can explain it again to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5S7QD9dryI

> But rather than assertions, lets look at what science says on the matter.
> Which set of countries has more gender equality in STEM (Science,
> Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) - GIS falls under the T and some of
> the S:
> Finland, Norway (Countries that address most of the issues in your linked
> US-focused Forbes article)
> or
> Tunisia, United Arab Emirates?
>
> Chances are you picked wrong. It turns out that in countries with poor
> human/women's rights records (UAE, Tunisia) there are more females in STEM,
> and in countries where there is more gender equality (i.e. the
> Scandinavians), the women choose not to go into STEM.
>
> For discussion see:
> https://researchtheheadlines.org/2018/04/20/the-stem-gender-equality-paradox-from-fallacies-to-facts/
> - and the actual paper:
> http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797617741719
>
> It's great that you chose GIS, but given the choice, the research indicates
> that most women chose something other than STEM if they live in a
> progressive country, most likely psychology, education, and healthcare, all
> of which are generally dominated by women. Given this, to me at least,
> trying to force a perfect 50/50 gender balance would thus seem to be doing a
> dis-service to people of both genders; it's not equality of opportunity even
> if it does achieve perfect diversity.


Let me tell you something: having legal rights doesn't mean you have
equal opportunities. Those studies are falling into the wrong
conclusions probably because bias of the researchers. Do you really
thing a woman can choose freely to study STEM in so called advanced
countries? Because I live in one of the most feminist/advanced
countries in the world regarding gender and... no, we don't have equal
opportunity. We are very far from that. Society push us outside tech.
Please, watch the video of Neil, he explains it perfectly.

In fact, the best stories are the ones told by trans, because they
have experienced both sides of what society forces you to be. And how
they are treated is completely different. And all of them agree: women
and men are treated completely different and while being a man can be
difficult, being a woman is far more difficult. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY I think there are better
videos, but this is the one I have in hand.

This is not a matter of forcing anything, it is a matter of really
having an equal field. Which, unfortunately, we don't have right now.
And same happens with PoC. And it is worst if you are WoC. We have a
lot to conquer here before we can really say we have equal
opportunities.
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