Re: [slim] [ANNOUNCE] Music-Playback now on ANDROID! SqueezePlayer released to the market ...
Hi. I really love the combo of player + commander. It gives me a uniform UI regardless of network streaming service together with a almost prompt playback. The commander is sometimes slow to connect, though. I am wishing that no user intervention should be necessary if the behavior can be configured. I would like it to work like the following: 1. When the reception goes bad (player detecting this situation when playback empties the buffer and network connection is not able to keep up): Player pauses the stream + perhaps give some notification (like vibrating). 2. When in bad conditions, player monitors reception and perhaps signal strength if possible to assess the current network condition. When fine, streaming is resumed. I as user, can be able to set my conditions in a coarse manner. This would be for me when the modem indicates UMTS coverage (3G is displayed with at least one bar on signal strength) or when I am connected to WLAN. But actually, point 2 there should on a phone with a decent modem be handled as the opposite of point 1, meaning that the player can detect if the network connection delivers data at a rate greater than the stream bit rate. And that the rate has been stable for like 5 seconds or so. This could be done automatically. Because while running or biking in the Swedish forest I do not want to stop to check the phone. I would be happy to help out here in any way I can. But a good step forward would be to make the player responsive from the commander when the buffer goes low. I realize that if network situation has gone really bad, the commands might not be able to transmit? Or, I do not know how the player control works, but are the commands proxied by mysb.com? I am working in mobile telephony with some Android experiences as well, so I might be able to help out or contribute. Thank you. -- undret undret's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31038 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87364 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] [ANNOUNCE] Music-Playback now on ANDROID! SqueezePlayer released to the market ...
undret;650712 Wrote: Or, I do not know how the player control works, but are the commands proxied by mysb.com? Yes Controller commands first go to the server, which sends them back (if needed) to the player. So there is just an indirect connection between SqueezeCommander and SqueezePlayer. So it might be that the 'pause' command can get lost on the way back or forth. But this is a really small packet so a slow network (working) connection shouldn't be a big problem. As said: I rather think that SqueezePlayer only accepts a 'pause' when it's in the playing state (as buffering right now is implemented as an (automatic) pause - so I guess an explicit pause is just ignored). -- bluegaspode Did you know: *'SqueezePlayer' (www.squeezeplayer.com)* will stream all your music to your Android device. Take your music everywhere! Remote Control + Streaming to your iPad? *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? = why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? = why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87364 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
Are there reductions in quality by using the digital out of the SB3 to the Cambridge DAC then digital out to pre amp? -- myvinyl333 http://www.iamnotjerry.com Supporting live Music myvinyl333's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
http://simpleaudio.co.uk/ -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3, SB BOOM - Vortexbox@HP SFF iPod Touch\iPeng bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] [ANNOUNCE] Music2touch 1.4.3 for the Blackberry Playbook released
A nice enhancement would be when I listen to Howard Stern usng the (not so) Sirius Internet Radio plugin: My SB3 displays a banner that the show puts out and updates constantly, e.g., Lisa G on Showbiz Tonight. Right now the screen on Music2touch does not show anything - not even that I'm listeneing to Howard 100 or 101 the Current Playlist area. Thanks, -- Rick B. Rick B.'s Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88180 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
What's the point in building yet another device. -- MediaCenter Source Device: Transporter Amplifiers: NAD C272 x 2 Bridge Mono Speakers: Magnepan MMG Pre-amplifier: NAD C162 Room Correction: Inguz DRC MediaCenter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
MediaCenter;650765 Wrote: What's the point in building yet another device. +1 My SB3 is still extremely cool. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3, SB BOOM - Vortexbox@HP SFF iPod Touch\iPeng bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
To make money??? -- castalla castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
There should be no reduction till the preamp. You may have your reasons but its hard to think of a use case for that path... -- MediaCenter Source Device: Transporter Room Correction + DAC + Preamp + Amplifiers: HK 990 Speakers: Magnepan 1.7 MediaCenter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
A lot of people, maybe most people, would say that the DAC Magic is better than the DAC in the SB3. But it is largely a matter of personal taste. The best solution is to find a dealer who will let you audition the DAC Magic at home. Because all the SB3 outputs are active, you can easily set it up to use both the SB3's analog outputs into your pre-amp and the SB3 digital out into the DAC Magic and then into the pre-amp. Switch back and forth between the sources as much as you like to see which you prefer. Be careful to ensure that the volume levels are the same for the two sources; otherwise the louder source will almost always sound better. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
MediaCenter;650765 Wrote: What's the point in building yet another device. As castalla rightly points out, to make money. By taking a good idea like SB or Sonos and trying to make it better in some way. Has anyone seen any pricing info on the Simple Audio devices? -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
MediaCenter;650765 Wrote:
What's the point in building yet another device.
I think it's great to see some competition, it just means that if
Logitech plans to stay in this business they need to invest more to
continue to stay ahead of the competitors. In most cases competition is
good for the end users, it usually means that we get more options and
lower prices in the end.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685
___
discuss mailing list
discuss@lists.slimdevices.com
http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
On the plus side it has PLC (Powerline Communication networking) built in. On the negative side: - no WMA support (local music or stations) - uses TuneIn for radio - no other online services mentioned - Synced audio not mentioned -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
MediaCenter;650768 Wrote: There should be no reduction till the preamp. You may have your reasons but its hard to think of a use case for that path... My only input to the preamp is digital. Lexicon (in another room) MacIntosh Amps in listening area w/ SB3) -- myvinyl333 http://www.iamnotjerry.com Supporting live Music myvinyl333's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
On the negative side: - no WMA support (local music or stations) - uses TuneIn for radio What's wrong about that? We're using them too... -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
In the UK the rrp has been confirmed as as £549 for RoomPlayer I and £499 for RoomPlayer II. Not cheap! -- HeadBanger HeadBanger's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38024 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
myvinyl333;650782 Wrote: My only input to the preamp(processor) is digital. I guess I'm confused. What are you expecting the DACMagic to do? It has digital outputs, but its primary function is digital-to-analog conversion (ie, DAC). -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
myvinyl333;650782 Wrote: My only input to the preamp(processor) is digital. Lexicon Processor(in another room) MacIntosh Amps in listening area w/ SB3) I hope that you understand that Lexicon processor is doing the Digital to Analog conversion so DAC magic is useless in the connection path you mentioned. That's why I was surprised, but then thought you may be switching digital inputs with DAC Magic. Two options: SB3 -D- Lexicon SB3 -D- DAC Magic -A- Lexicon I am not a proponent of DAC differences. If you want to hear a difference just move your speaker few inches back or forward, you will hear a measurable difference. -- MediaCenter Source Device: Transporter Room Correction + DAC + Preamp + Amplifiers: HK 990 Speakers: Magnepan 1.7 MediaCenter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
castalla;650767 Wrote: To make money??? If you can sell enough! -- MediaCenter Source Device: Transporter Room Correction + DAC + Preamp + Amplifiers: HK 990 Speakers: Magnepan 1.7 MediaCenter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
HeadBanger;650786 Wrote: In the UK the rrp has been confirmed as as £549 for RoomPlayer I and £499 for RoomPlayer II. Not cheap! It is expected to launch September or October. At those prices they better work very well. And you've got to wonder about the quality of an amp that adds only £50 to the price. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
Squeezebox is a much more open and mature product, why buy something from a company that may no longer be in existence. If squeezebox is not working than buy a Sony etc. there are many media streamers from both main stream and boutique bands. Even the networking companies like Cisco are getting in the act. -- MediaCenter Source Device: Transporter Room Correction + DAC + Preamp + Amplifiers: HK 990 Speakers: Magnepan 1.7 MediaCenter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
HeadBanger;650786 Wrote: In the UK the rrp has been confirmed as as £549 for RoomPlayer I and £499 for RoomPlayer II. Not cheap! Since the company was formed by ex-Linn engineers, I'd hazard a guess that those prices are about as low as their worldview could possibly comprehend :-) -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
Had a brief look at their www and for me they are going head to head with Sonos... courting the Apple buyers -- slate Main: Receiver (Audiocom) - Beresford Caiman+ (Gatorized) - Carver A-500x - BW 704 Office: Receiver - Luxman L-210 - Stax SR84 Pro/Superlux HD668B Server: Zotac IONITX-A, 4 GB, 1 TB WD EADS, Win7 w. 7.6 (SQLite w. High Mem) Tied together by D-Link DIR-655 + DGS-1008D slate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30502 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
Blimey, Peter Murphy's gone downhill since he was in Bauhaus... -- pallfreeman The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. -- Shakespeare. PLEASE VOTE FOR BUG #17411. pallfreeman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37667 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rhapsody and scrobbling
mherger;650669 Wrote: Scrobble Internet Radio is set to yes in my settings. mysb or sbs? I was confused by this myself. All of the above. :-) -- MeSue SUE 1 Duet | 2 Booms | 1 Radio | 1 Touch (beta) | 1 SB2 HP MediaSmart EX470 | Squeezebox Server 7.5 | iPod Touch w/ iPeng Find me on 'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/MeSue) | 'Twitter' (http://twitter.com/suechastain) MeSue's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=985 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89656 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Spotify sound quality
I've had Napster up to now and just got Spotify. Napster was 192k, and Spotify pretty consistently sounds a lot better. -- jmsent jmsent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89455 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] New stuff. Simple Audio
mherger;650785 Wrote: On the negative side: - no WMA support (local music or stations) - uses TuneIn for radio What's wrong about that? We're using them too... -- Michael Hiya Michael, Nothing really wrong per se, but I do categorize it as a negative for just that reason, it is the same as what we have now. Seems more and more stations are dropping RadioTime (TuneIn) and going to other stream aggregators like IheartRadio and others. Often the workaround to RadioTime stream issues (or outright absence of that stream even being offered) is to find their competitors URL to get the stations to play. Any chance of having a IheartRadio or StreamTheWorld or similar App to get back a simple menu structure for the stations not offered on RadioTime? -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89685 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Cambridge Audio DAC Magic-SB3
MediaCenter;650801 Wrote: I hope that you understand that Lexicon processor is doing the Digital to Analog conversion so DAC magic is useless in the connection path you mentioned. That's why I was surprised, but then thought you may be switching digital inputs with DAC Magic. Two options: SB3 -D- Lexicon SB3 -D- DAC Magic -A- Lexicon I am not a proponent of DAC differences. If you want to hear a difference just move your speaker few inches back or forward, you will hear a measurable difference. I have decided against a DAC. Forgot there is a DAC in the processor. -- myvinyl333 http://www.iamnotjerry.com Supporting live Music myvinyl333's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89684 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] SB3 Easy Modifications
Pardon me if this thread/question has been asked, but not being a DIY person, what is the easiest SB3 modification, PSU? I have decided against a DAC and will beef up the SB3. -- myvinyl333 http://www.iamnotjerry.com Supporting live Music myvinyl333's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89698 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] SB3 Easy Modifications
Adding a linear power supply is considered by many to be a good way to increase the sound quality of an SB3. Welborne Labs sells a linear power supply for the SB3 for about $250. It's on sale right now for $212 assembled or $165 in kit form. The ELPAC WM220-1 was a popular choice while they were available. Good luck. Kevin T -- kgturner kgturner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89698 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] SB3 Easy Modifications
At those prices a dac looks very attractive. I'd google welbourne Labs too before placing any orders. Chris ;) -- Stratmangler There is no element of personal attack in my response. Stratmangler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20387 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89698 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] SB3 Easy Modifications
please don't do bussines with wellborne he is a scam and a criminal , google ;) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89698 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] SB3 Easy Modifications
+2 on Welborne Labs. Never got the product, and took a lot of arm twisting to get my money back. One cheap alternative ($28) is to pick up a Touch power supply directly from Logitech. It is a perfect replacement, and a better unit. http://buy.logitech.com/store/logib2c/en_US/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryid.28136200 Best bang for the buck is a new DAC. The SB3 sounds great, but you would be surprised what an improvement a newer DAC will make. -- vrette (3) SB Touch, (3) SB Radio, Cambridge Audio 840AV2, 340T, DacMagic, BW 683, HSU VFT2-MK3, Logitech Harmony 880, 7.6.1 on Asus E35M1-M PRO Win7 64 bit , and a bunch of other stuff... vrette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15256 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89698 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] AAC Stream plays about 5% of the time
This is a bit of a deja-vu issue (see thread 77982) but basically I have an AAC stream that I can only tune into about 5% of the time. I'll get a 'connecting' and then a second later it stops without having done anything. If I continue to try over and over, eventually I'll play... it almost feels like it's coming into the stream in the middle of a chunk or something and not recognizing what it sees, and it's pure luck when it works that I hit it in the right place... but I've no idea how these work under the hood so I'm just making stuff up. I turned on some debug and tried to hit the stream which is http://edgev1.den.echo.liquidcompass.net/KNUSAMAAC and got the attached file (The forum software won't let me paste it, it claims I'm using 8 images in the post...) If there's some other log categories I should turn on that might shed some light on what happens between Got a stream type: aac... and Direct stream failed for url... let me know.. +---+ |Filename: debug.txt| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12336| +---+ -- ManChicken ManChicken's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8647 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89704 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Spotify sound quality
Spotify is 320kbps. The highest compressed quality. I believe information of the stream is accessible by the 'more info' menu. -- SilverRS8 Author of -'AlbumCatalogCreator' (http://acc.vanholt.nl)- for Squeezebox Server . 1xTouch, 1xSB3, 1xDuet, 1xRadio, 1xiPhone iPeng, Ubuntu NAS + SBS SilverRS8's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12818 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89455 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
