Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Varying with many other posters, I have some sympathy with the OP in that I want to be able to control volume exclusively on my amp and get a (fixed) best possible output from the connected Squeezebox (Duet). I am awaiting the day when the volume buttons on the controller can IR control my amp! -- FaberOptimé FaberOptimé's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17602 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
I admit that I actually like the volume control and use it, even though I have a high-end system where I can hear the difference. Since I have a purist preamp with no remote, I use the volume control on the SB3 all the time, especially when I'm too lazy to get out of my chair or have had one (or two) too many! Cheers. -- corbey corbey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
smc2911 wrote: I would conclude from the discussion here that I'm not really suffering in any way by doing this (other than missing out on a bit of volume of course :)) Can you hear any deficiency? If not, you're not missing out on anything. Actually, you're not anyway but, even if you were, if you can't hear it then you're actually not. :) R. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
I could never hear any deficiency and now I know why. -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
It's an important point. I have mentioned it lots of times but Logitech have still not got the point. The Yamaha CDRH1500 does not have it, apple tv does not have it, and it makes absolutely no sense at all anyway. I know Logitech love covering their keyboards with buttons no one ever uses but that is not cool anymore (if it ever was). But in thise case it's much much worse because most 99% of users are too dumb to understand that should not use the thing. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278214 Wrote: What we really want on this tread is 50 people saying yes logitech please remove the stupid volume control from the analogue out on squeezebox. I won't be one of the 50. Prior to getting a SBC I used a Harmony remote to control my SB3, amp, TV, etc and had the volume control on the Music activity set to control the volume of the amp rather than the SB3, so back then I might have had some sympathy with your perspective, although even then if I had the laptop in front of my it came in handy to be able to drop the volume without finding the remote (e.g. if the phone rang). Now, however, I rarely use the Harmony for music given the power of the SBC and so having the SBC able to control volume is a feature I wouldn't want to lose. -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
why kill it? it is useful for some people. if u don't like it, set your prefs to fixed output. whats the big deal? i wouldn't call u a troll however. just misguided. -- MrSinatra www.LION-Radio.org Using: Squeezebox2 w/SC 7.0.1beta - Win XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - D-Link DIR-655 MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Why kill it? Yes you can find a thread on here where you can hack a file and disable the volume control for good. But 99% of the users are not going to do that and are going to find they have to play with the volume on thier amp and on thier squeezebox to try and get the level they want. and then they are going to switch the channel to the radio and blow their speakers. it's just a totally stupid idea - hifi equipment is desiged to certain specs and 100% output on your player is supposed to be 6 votls. if no one here gets it and no one at logitech gets it either i give up. but before you think i am wrong LOGITECH ASK YOURSELF: why do apple not have a volume on the apple tv? do you think you are as smart as steve jobbs? i don't think so why does the denon ipod dock disable the ipod volume control and fix the level correctly? (what do most people buy instead of a squeezebox - an ipod dock of course) why does your cd player not have a volume control? logitech you got to stop listening to the nutters on this forum who all want xyz. think about the average user and make his life simple. do you you really think that Grandma is going to telnet into her dodgy qnap and edit various text files in vi (notepad can't see the line ends) before she can leave her computer off at night You must be barking mad -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
why does your cd player not have a volume control? Mine does, but only for the analog out. Tom ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
On 11-Mar-08, at 1:05 AM, willyhoops wrote: Why kill it? Yes you can find a thread on here where you can hack a file and disable the volume control for good. But 99% of the user :ove to see that stat backed up with data :) Sorry, but I use it all the time. I guess that means you now need 99 other people who think it's utterly useless. S'ok, I'll wait. -kdf,complete and total nutter (that's why I'm still here) ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278238 Wrote: logitech you got to stop listening to the nutters on this forum who all want xyz. think about the average user and make his life simple. do you you really think that Grandma is going to telnet into her dodgy qnap and edit various text files in vi (notepad can't see the line ends) before she can leave her computer off at night You must be barking madI'm sorry, but I don't see the problem...seems you're intelligent enough to figure that you can set the SB output to 100% and then use your preamp as your volume control, but not intelligent enough to trust yourself to leave the volume control on the remote alone afterward. In addition, not all of us have preamps in the signal path so we DO use the remote's volume control to adjust listening level. -- egd All music also sounded completly different , and extremly musical. egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
MrSinatra;278224 Wrote: why kill it? it is useful for some people. if u don't like it, set your prefs to fixed output. whats the big deal? i wouldn't call u a troll however. just misguided. I personally do not mind the volume controls on the box, but I do not use them. I set the volume to max and use the amplifer volume control instead. I do know a lot of people (parent generation) that get confused with what for me is a very simple interface. For them it makes no sense that the volume can be adjusted several places (but I do understand the usefulness if the device is hooked up to active speakers with no remote volume control capability). Remote controls have generally for far too long been excluded from proper and simple design. I have not used the new Controller yet, but I am sure it is a big step in the right direction. -- Espen Espen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15057 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops wrote: LOGITECH ASK YOURSELF: why do apple not have a volume on the apple tv? do you think you are as smart as steve jobbs? i don't think so why does the denon ipod dock disable the ipod volume control and fix the level correctly? (what do most people buy instead of a squeezebox - an ipod dock of course) why does your cd player not have a volume control? You lack imagination. Without a volume control, how do I change the volume on my powered speakers? Without an SB3 volume control, how do I change the hidden T-Amp's volume in the bed room? By getting out of bed and turning the wheel? If Logitech would leave out the volume controls I would be very disappointed. I hate the semi-religious way some people talk about 'apple'. Regards, Peter ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
It's a lonely world -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278251 Wrote: Powered speakers... the downmarket things you plug into your computer which don't have a remote volume becuase you adjust it on the computer.ROFLMAO...do you have any idea what you're ranting about? -- egd All music also sounded completly different , and extremly musical. egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278238 Wrote: But 99% of the users are not going to do that and are going to find they have to play with the volume on thier amp and on thier squeezebox to try and get the level they want. and then they are going to switch the channel to the radio and blow their speakers etc. and they are going to use a volume button if you give it to them like silly smc2911. it's just a totally stupid idea - hifi equipment is desiged to certain specs and 100% output on your player is supposed to be 6 votls. if no one here gets it and no one at logitech gets it either i give up.Feel free to think what I'm doing is silly, but I struggle to see why it should worry you that I do something you consider silly: you can do your own thing after all. -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
egd wrote: willyhoops;278251 Wrote: Powered speakers... the downmarket things you plug into your computer which don't have a remote volume becuase you adjust it on the computer. ROFLMAO...do you have any idea what you're ranting about? Heh, that is quite clearly a rhetorical question, as the answer is rather obvious! R. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278251 Wrote: Powered speakers... the downmarket things you plug into your computer which don't have a remote volume becuase you adjust it on the computer. i agree in this case the volume control is a very nice feature. on the other hand the many more people (?) who have a hifi with line in are changing the volume when they shouldn't be. however, if that market is very large i am wrong. i am really sorry, i didn't think about the computer speakers setup until now. i have never seen anyone do that in the uk- but maybe its more popular in the states. I for one am glad there is a volume control all three of my SB3s are connected to either (a) Audioengine A2s which do have a volume control on the back but as they are up on high shelves in the kitchen prefer to use the remote for the SB3 (b) directly into a Linn power amp attached to Acoustat electrostatic panels, I don't think these are classed as downmarket but maybe I am wrong! And this is the way the TP will be when I get round to buying one. And yes I do live in the UK! -- MuckleEck Alasdair 3 SB3s - Linn - Acoustat - AudioEngine 2 - Cambridge Audio 640R - Mordaunt Short MuckleEck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11301 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
amazon.co.uk squeezebox duet product description: Product Description Listen to the music you love in any room in your home Music everywhere Connect the Squeezebox Receiver to your stereo or powered speakers and create a musical oasis OK I am really wrong. Maybe this is the way most people use it- I didn't know that. So the stereo market is not so important. This is why on the Sonos web site: http://www.sonos.com/products/zoneplayers/zp80/features.htm Analog and digital audio output Enjoy your music anywhere by connecting to your home theater receiver or amplifier with analog, optical and coaxial digital audio outputs. We also provide fixed or variable audio output volume control. But the Squeezebox does not bother, has only variable volume, and mostly sell to the power speaker market. And transporter users or those in the know can get around the problem by editing some config files. Only the variable volume on the digital out makes no sense since that is only used by pros. - smc2911 if you are using powered speakers its fine. it's only an issue if you have the line out going to a stereo which then adjusts the signal to the voltage you want for your speakers acording to the way you have set the volume knob. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops: can you explain what the fundamental problem with volume control is, other than that it is not cool anymore? I have read elsewhere that it is advisable to have full volume on the digital out, but what's the problem for the analog out? -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
But the Squeezebox does not bother, has only variable volume, and You can fix the digital out's volume. -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278293 Wrote: OK I am really wrong. Maybe this is the way most people use it- I didn't know that. So the stereo market is not so important.Now you're swinging too far the other way: I certainly think that the stereo market is important. Personally I use my SB3 via the stereo (although I am considering powered speakers for the SBR). Maybe I *am* silly, but I still don't think you've explained why controlling volume on the SB is a problem. -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
yes if you use a stero and the volume control you are making a big mistake. in your case (maybe you are only a small part of the logitech market however) you have significantly reduced sound quality becuase logitech gave you a stupid setup and or did not explain it properly. do you understand it now? in your case, logitech have screwed you! now you can get round this problem, if you don't mind editing the linux config files, using the info i posted before. or just make sure the volume is at max and check it from time to time in case the wife changed it. i guess that is what most people do. (unless they changed the functionality of the latest version of slimserver) -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
ok maybe i am wrong on the exact details but smc2911 i will try and calculate just how bad the quality of your squeezebox playback has been the last few years. using: http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/voltageloudness.html To get a doubling of loudness, it is important to note that an increase of 10dB is necessary. And to reproduce that volume through our loudspeakers, note that we require ten times more power from the amplifier, which is voltage increase of 3.16 times. If your stereo volume is set to a point where at squeezebox music keeps the party ticking... now if in normal listening it is say half as loud... then i think you are going to drop from 16 bit resolution to one third of that. but anyone can correct me if they like... its not really my area either way at least i now have one LOGITECH PLEASE GET RID OF THE VOLUME BUTTON - YOU MESSED ME UP FOR YEARS AND I DIDN'T EVENT KNOW IT UNTIL NOW -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278303 Wrote: LOGITECH PLEASE GET RID OF THE VOLUME BUTTON - YOU MESSED ME UP FOR YEARS AND I DIDN'T EVENT KNOW IT UNTIL NOWclearly in your case ignorance is bliss and it seems you'd prefer it remains this way. we cannot help you if you don't want to be helped. your misconceptions have been extensively covered in numerous threads. do yourself a favour and take the time to read them. -- egd willyhoops;278251 Wrote: Powered speakers... the downmarket things you plug into your computer which don't have a remote volume becuase you adjust it on the computer. i agree in this case the volume control is a very nice feature. egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops wrote: ok maybe i am wrong on the exact details Heh, you can say that again, without the maybe, and perhaps adding a completely. but smc2911 i will try and calculate just how bad the quality of your squeezebox playback has been the last few years. using: http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/voltageloudness.html To get a doubling of loudness, it is important to note that an increase of 10dB is necessary. And to reproduce that volume through our loudspeakers, note that we require ten times more power from the amplifier, which is voltage increase of 3.16 times. If your stereo volume is set to a point where at squeezebox music keeps the party ticking... now if in normal listening it is say half as loud... I'm sorry, but what has that got to do with anything? then i think you are going to drop from 16 bit resolution to one third of that. but anyone can correct me if they like... its not really my area Actually, the Squeezebox uses 24-bit processing. So you can drop 8 bits without losing any resolution. either way at least i now have one LOGITECH PLEASE GET RID OF THE VOLUME BUTTON - YOU MESSED ME UP FOR YEARS AND I DIDN'T EVENT KNOW IT UNTIL NOW Oh dear oh dear. You seem to be rather confused about this issue. Let's put aside the fact that you can just set the Squeezebox to maximum volume to get the same effect as a fixed output (really, you can, the volume control is done digitally, the analogue out is fixed). Just how exactly do you think Logitech has messed you up for years? R. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
I don;t think you work for Logitech... manger of a mac donalds? -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
gee you are not reading it... not me they messed up. are you understanding what i am saying... if 6v is the max level that when it comes out of his hifi makes a party kick... then one third of that will be the level for normal listening... imagine the line in had an analogue to digital convertor on it... then one third of the resolution would be lost. ok it does not have a a a/d... instead it uses analouge gain... but the noise and resolution must come into it... -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Posted before I saw Robin's reply: sounds like I was wrong about bits if the volume adjustment is done in the digital domain, but I still struggle to see the problem here. -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
yes the volume adjustment in done in the digital domain -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278309 Wrote: egd, I don't think you work for Logitech do you? you also don't get it. so please leave the thread aloneheh, you're right, I use active speakers so clearly I have no idea what you or I are on about. :P -- egd Internet forums: conclusive proof depth of gene pool is indeed variable, monkeys can be taught to cut code, and world peace is utterly unrealistic... egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops wrote: gee you are not reading it... not me they messed up. Er, I am reading it. I'm obviously not understanding you very well. are you understanding what i am saying... if 6v is the max level that when it comes out of his hifi makes a party kick... then one third of that will be the level for normal listening... imagine the line in had an analogue to digital convertor on it... then one third of the resolution would be lost. CD audio is (generally) 16-bit. The Squeezebox uses 24-bit processing. This is means that the volume can be reduced by a whole 8 bits without losing any resolution. Here's an example using 4-bits / 8 bits: Original 4-bit audio: Processed as 8-bit audio: Half the volume : 0000 Half the volume : 0000 Half the volume : 0000 Half the volume : Notice, we've now reduced the volume significantly and have still not lost any resolution. ok it does not have a a a/d... instead it uses analouge gain... but the noise and resolution must come into it... No, it uses digital gain. The analogue gain is fixed (for best S/N ratio). I'll say it again - if you want fixed (maximum) output from the SB just turn up the volume to full and forget about it. You are not losing anything. Let's look at your example another way: are you understanding what i am saying... if 6v is the max level that when it comes out of his hifi makes a party kick... then one third of that will be the level for normal listening... imagine the line in had an analogue to digital convertor on it... then one third of the resolution would be lost. So, imagine your SB output is set to maximum, and your amplifier volume control is set to whatever level required to make a party kick. For normal listening (one third of that) simply turn the amplifier volume down. Easy. R. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
smc2911 i guess the 16 bit signal gets the volume level applied to it and then it get output directy in one place, and then upscaled and output as analogue in the other place. but it would be possible to build a computer soundcard that applied the final volume adjustmet in the analogue domain after all the signal processing and mixing etc... and then if you put that into your powered speakers the quality would be fine for most sensible volume settings. i am not sure how out creative labs sound etc cards work -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
I followed the link, but I don't see how it applies to the SB volume control. If I use analog out and use the squeezebox remote to turn the volume down, how is that different to using the volume on the amp? Since it's in the analog stage, talking about bits being lost wouldn't seem to apply. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge needs to step in to clarify the matter. -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;277907 Wrote: Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control? Yes, and it annoys my wife and I that we have to juggle two remotes with our AppleTV. We have chosen to use a Harmony remote from a company that understands how consumers use their streaming products. -- twylie Thecus N5200 - transporter - Krell KRC2 - 4 x nuforce 8b - Von Schweikert VR-4 Gen III Thecus N5200 - SB3 - Monarchy DIP - Monarchy Super DIP - Monarchy 18b - AES 845 monos - Sonus Faber Concertos / Audio Physic Sparks twylie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=956 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
if you are worried that you blow your speakers when changing from SB to another source. http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/VolumeLock.html It's easily found in the PlugIn page also. http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?PluginsAudio I use the analog output and set the volume to 100% and lock it with the plugin. No coding, no installation. Just drop it in the pluginfolder and restart. -- bernt http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/ bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
thanks for that - i did not know about the plugin- that's very good -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278323 Wrote: i am sorry i made a meal of this tread... we need an expert...Point your browser to http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp and if you still have questions afterward, feel free to ask, without shouting your mouth off. -- egd Internet forums: conclusive proof depth of gene pool is indeed variable, monkeys can be taught to cut code, and world peace is utterly unrealistic... egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
This is an odd thread. How would I adjust the volume of my hifis if the Transporter/SB3 did not have a volume control? Transporter Bryston S4 PMC OB1s Controlled by controller SB3 AudioEngine 2s Controlled by backlit remote and controller I, and I imagine a lot of other people, would be stuffed without a volume control. MC -- ModelCitizen Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. It's the music, stupid. http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
To get a doubling of loudness, it is important to note that an increase of 10dB is necessary. And to reproduce that volume through our loudspeakers, note that we require ten times more power from the amplifier, which is voltage increase of 3.16 times. If your stereo volume is set to a point where at squeezebox music keeps the party ticking... now if in normal listening it is say half as loud... then i think you are going to drop from 16 bit resolution to one third of that. but anyone can correct me if they like... its not really my area Apparently not. Actually, 1bit=6.02 dB, so you are talking 1 2/3 bits, i.e. going from 16 to 14 1/3. But only if the signal is digital. In the analog domain, it's simply a matter of raising the noise floor, i.e. no bits are lost. Tom ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
MrSinatra;278224 Wrote: i wouldn't call u a troll however. The issue wasn't with the message (I'm happy for people to have issues with how things are done) - it was with the way it was presented. A simple Can anyone explain why the SB has a volume control? or I believe the volume control should be taken out, and here's why could have promoted a useful discussion. The actual post, as I unfortunatly predicted, just caused a big flamefest. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
st2lemans, Ah that's interesting and makes sense. So reducing the loudness by half cuts 1.66 bits off the resolution. I knew there might be a problem with my calcualation- didn't know it's as big as that! I see that now at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth It looks like you know a lot about it. Can you confim that squeezebox works in the digital domain and then passes this through the DAC? What about my average computer sound card? Another question: From: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp the output line levels vary somewhat by type of connection and between devices. This is typical of source devices... This difference is one of the things the preamp controls So how can the preamp control this? I thought the line in was pure analogue... If I play a 1kHz tone at half volume down the 'line in' how can it tell that this input uses a different maximum level from some other? That makes no sense to me- unless they mean the preamp has phono and cd inputs which are hardcoded differently. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
can u explain why you don't just use fixed outputs? u have that option to set. just set it, forget it, and be done with it. better yet, why not just max the volume and never touch it again? and if ur so concerned, why not use the digital output as well? if someone has different sources going into a receiver, as i do, that u switch between frequently, then its nice being able to control the volume of the SOURCES and just leave the receiver at a fixed volume. its essentially a makeshift mixer. just b/c its not what apple TV does, (and apple TV sux btw), doesn't mean its not useful. in fact, b/c i now know from you apple tv does NOT have this ability, i am now lees likely then i was to get one. i just don't see the basis of your gripe. -- MrSinatra www.LION-Radio.org Using: Squeezebox2 w/SC 7.0.1beta - Win XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - D-Link DIR-655 MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
MrSinatra;278465 Wrote: can u explain why you don't just use fixed outputs? u have that option to set. just set it, forget it, and be done with it. Exactly, the OP does know there is a very easy to set setting under player config (no hacking required) to have the volume fixed and no matter what you do with the remote it will not change. Nice thing is this is a per player setting so your SB connected to the line input on an amp can have fixed volume and the one connected to power speakers in the garage can have non-fixed volume. It really is not a big deal. Also what Robin states about the volume being done after the 24bit conversion I am pretty sure is accurate. So you really are not loosing as much range as you think you are. But besides the point the SB does exactly what you want gives you the choice. This is something they have had for a very long time. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
willyhoops;278386 Wrote: Wadia claims it has mitigated the disadvantages of digital domain volume control by starting out with a 21-bit signal [upscaled from the CD's 16 bits in the digital filter before the DAC]. Losing a little resolution from 21 bits is an acceptable situation, Wadia believes. Good for Wadia. It appears that you are unaware that Slim Devices does the same thing. (Or rather, it upscales to 24 bits before the DAC. This provides for 18dB more safe attenuation than Wadia's 21 bits). Does that make you any happier? -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
This thread has exceeded its signal to noise ratio. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Phil Leigh;278476 Wrote: This thread has exceeded its signal to noise ratio.Consider it an inefficient means of dispelling myths and (hopefully?) educating someone in dire need thereof. -- egd Internet forums: conclusive proof depth of gene pool is indeed variable, monkeys can be taught to cut code, and world peace is utterly unrealistic... egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
egd;278502 Wrote: Consider it an inefficient means of dispelling myths and (hopefully?) educating someone in dire need thereof. OK. Maybe there should be a sticky explaining for those who are hard of understanding about 24-bit digital level control... so we don't have go through this again and again and again -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Phil Leigh;278505 Wrote: OK. Maybe there should be a sticky explaining for those who are hard of understanding about 24-bit digital level control... so we don't have go through this again and again and again I agree. There are a few threads and wiki entries that everyone should read after having acquired a SB3, Receiver or Transporter. To aid in understanding, they should probably be read in a certain order too. Problem is identifying them now is not a trivial undertaking. -- egd Internet forums: conclusive proof depth of gene pool is indeed variable, monkeys can be taught to cut code, and world peace is utterly unrealistic... egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Yes - it would be a rather monumental task...just thinking about the Things you MUST do before posting about your problem on this board makes my head hurt! 1) Install latest version of server AND firmware for your OS 2) Factory reset your SB 3) Clear library and rescan 4) TRY IT WIRED! 5) disable encryption/firewall/AV . . . 3,209) zz. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Despite a certain amount of heat and light in this thread, I've actually learnt something here. Thanks for the pointer to the wiki article (I use the wiki a fair bit, but hadn't come across that page), and thanks to Robin for the 24 bit upscaling explanation. The way I tend to use the SBC volume control is to have it at full most of the time, but use the SBC from time to time to turn the volume down to, say, 75%, (e.g. if someone is using the phone in the next room). I would conclude from the discussion here that I'm not really suffering in any way by doing this (other than missing out on a bit of volume of course :)) -- smc2911 smc2911's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Thank god for common sense :-) -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Anyone noticed the Apple TV has no volume control?
Please don't troll the forums, it's not constructive or helpful to anyone. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44546 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
