[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Michaelwagner Wrote: And aside from the legal niceties, it isn't clear that the musicians benefit from the sales on that site. Oh, to answer the original question, I do most of my buying these days at a second hand music store. It's a chain that exists, AFAIK, only in S. Ontario. Wait a second! You say that aside from the legal niceties (where as in fact it IS legal in Russia whatever the RIAA say) that it's not clear that the musicians get any money. Then you go on to say that you buy second hand CD's !! You do realise that the musicians get none of your money either? -- Diarmuid Diarmuid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=595 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Diarmuid Wrote: you buy second hand CD's !! You do realise that the musicians get none of your money either? On the contrary. This is like saying the used car market is unimportant to manufacturers of new cars. A used marketplace enhances the value of products. Suppose you buy the album from whomever. You don't like it. If you can sell it to a used CD store, who then sells it to me, you will have probably half the money you need to buy the next CD, from a band you like more. If there was no marketplace in second hand CDs, you wouldn't have that money in your hands to buy the next new one. It is correct that if I buy Michael Jackson's CD used, Michael doesn't directly get my dollars. But someone else will, indirectly, through the used CD dealer. Just like a used car dealer enabling others to trade up and buy new cars. Which is more money to musicians than allofmp3 is. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Michaelwagner Wrote: On the contrary. This is like saying the used car market is unimportant to manufacturers of new cars. Which is not what I said. I said that your money is not going to musicians. What you said is true but you can also draw similar analogies with Allofmp3. Allofmp3 is increasing the exposure of bands to people who otherwise wouldn't listen to a band and as a knock on effect the band may benefit (via concerts, future sales, merch etc) Secondly Allofmp3 is making money because it is providing a service that the consumer wants. no DRM, at a bit rate that you want. People could download the same music from p2p networks but are prepared to pay for the convenience. Why can't the RIAA provide this service? (because they know their business model is on the way out and they are on a money grab while things are still good) Thirdly why is ok for large corporations to shop around in the world labour market and profit from labour laws in certain far off lands that would be illegal in the US/EU but if the consumer does the same well then that's bad ? Also if the Recording Industry had it's way, your secondhand record store would be going the way of the dodo. http://www.planetgarth.com/gbnews/garth049.shtml -CEMA and three other major record firms--Time Warner's WEA, Matsushita's UNI and Sony Music Distribution--are under investigation by the Federal Trade Commission and have been the target of several antitrust lawsuits related to their policies against used CDs. - Finally I have spent 1000's Euro on CDs over the past 10 years but I'm sick of the attitude of the recording industry. I'm done with their greed and I despise they way they have politicians in their back pocket, willing to force through whatever the latest crazy bill they can come up with to further screw the consumer. F*ck them, I'm going to download from Allofmp3 jsut cause it pisses them off. I do pity the musicians that are caught in this but sooner or later this has to stop Sorry for the rant. -- Diarmuid Diarmuid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=595 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
On 7/3/06, Diarmuid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...Finally I have spent 1000's Euro on CDs over the past 10 years but I'msick of the attitude of the recording industry. I'm done with their greed and I despise they way they have politicians in their backpocket, willing to force through whatever the latest crazy bill theycan come up with to further screw the consumer. F*ck them, I'm going todownload from Allofmp3 jsut cause it pisses them off. I do pity the musicians that are caught in this but sooner or later this has to stopSorry for the rant.or you could do as many have suggested in this thread -- patronize download sites which do reimburse the artists, such as emusic or magnatune. There are also many artists who operate their own websites and will be happy to sell you stuff. -- I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,So across the Western ocean I must wander -- traditional ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
never bought music from an online store such as iTunes, never intend to either. Still get all my CDs from local indipendant, high street chains, and online retailers. -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
deserttaxguy Wrote: I dont like the rights management issues with the common commercial digital vendors and was wondering what the community suggests as the favorite sites. I just looked around one which I didnt like too much, but it did have total rights to the buyer of the tracks for all the independent or other artist looking to market on the internet. So, could you tell me your favorite spot to buy some tunes? Has to be http://www.allofmp3.com/ for me.. you choose the quality of the tracks (costs slightly more the higher the quality) and no DRM. I downloaded 3 albums for just over £5. Definately the future of how music should be sold online!! -- cparker cparker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2083 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Recently, I've used a couple of online stores that specialize in second-hand CD's. I've had very good experiences with them - the CD's I've received have been virtually indistinguishable from brand new - especially since I usually just rip them (in flac) to my hard drive and then store the originals. The best prices for used CD's I've found have been at: http://www.secondspin.com/ , but I've gotten good service from http://www.caiman.com/ as well. Half the price of new cd's is quite common. -- mlmurray mlmurray's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1910 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
I use AllOfMP3 from time to time. It's what i like to call 'protest purchacing', because the more the record industry see's people buying from them, the more likely they will be to sort it out and offer better quality downloads at decent prices. Also, even if the artist only got 1 penny from the sale, thats more than they would have done if i bought a second hand CD. Well thats my excuse anyway! -- dangerous_dom dangerous_dom's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Michaelwagner Wrote: A word to the wise, or at least the wary. If you scan the forums, you'll find many posts about the legality (or lack thereof) of allofmp3. And aside from the legal niceties, it isn't clear that the musicians benefit from the sales on that site. AllofMP3.com sells albums for £1, compared with iTunes' typical price of £7.99. You cant tell me the artist would get another £6 benefit out of it. Artists make their money out of airtime payments and merchandising anyway, its the record companies who make money on the sale of a CD. If you enjoy paying over the odds for music its your choice. Its a case of AllofMp3.com bringing the free market to the consumer and about time to! In addition, for your information; A spokesman for the BPI told silicon.com that it won't be setting the lawyers on any UK users of site: While it remains illegal to use the site, we aren't interested in taking users to task - what we are doing is targeting the site itself. In addition, to balance the argument; http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/07/bpi_sues_allofmp3/ Enjoy! -- cparker cparker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2083 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
cparker Wrote: You cant tell me the artist would get another £6 benefit out of it. I wouldn't tell you that, because it's not true. But they do get some money from CD sales. Artists make their money out of airtime payments and merchandising anyway Now that's not true. A goodly bit of their income comes from CD sales. Its a case of AllofMp3.com bringing the free market to the consumer I don't think that's correct. As I understand it, and it's been debated in the fora here to death before, AllofMp3 is exploiting a loophole in Russian law. Regardless of whether it's letter-of-law legal, it's rather clearly not intent-of-law legal. As you say, you can buy your music where you want. I just wanted to make the point, if you care about rewarding musicians for their work. I'm not worried about Michael Jackson. I am worried about the little starving bands that do some of the best blues and soul music. *My* solution, where possible, is to buy the CDs off the stage, from the band members themselves. Where not possible, then I buy from the second hand store. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Ok, here is my final input on this, taken from; http://blog.outer-court.com/forum/25240.html The record company foots the bill for production of the CD. That includes recording, producing, and artwork (for the CD). They expect the artist to help pay these expenses, so they arrange for an advance, basically lending the artist the money needed for production. The artist only makes money AFTER the record company has recooped that advance, and even then, it's only a very small percentage of the cost of the CD that the artist ever sees. Now, the artist has agreed to this, because the other source of income the artist sees does NOT come from the record company. It's the Royalties. Royalties are earned every time an artist's song is played on the radio or TV, as long as the artist wrote the song. If someone else wrote the song and the band took that song and recorded it, the band makes no royalties. The writer of the song does. If I write a song, and someone else records it and it gets massive airplay, I get rich, and the band only get's album sales, which is small. That's because the writer of the song ownes the publishing writes to the material, and get's payed when it's used. When you sign a deal with a record company, they then own half (it used to be half, maybe more now) of the publishing. SO not only is the record company taking most of the song sales, but also over half of the royalties for the song/album. The royalties are payed by a third party. In Canada it's ASCAP; I'm not sure in the U.S. When you steal music, you're not hurting the artist, you're hurting the record company, and as I said above, paybacks are a bi_ch Artists and consumers alike have been ripped off by record companies for many years. Now they're suing the already unhappy and ripped off customers for downloading music. -- cparker cparker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2083 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
If you want to screw the RIAA while supporting the artists, you may want to consider http://lala.com (currently USA only). Trade used CDs, $1.50 for each trade including postage. The founder claims to give 20% of the profit to the artists who's music is being traded, or in cases where that isn't practical, to a foundation dedicated to providing health care and retirement benefits to working musicians. The founder says that if this takes off big, he hopes to funnel 90% of the profits to the artists in the future. Even now, this is a bigger piece of the action than artists typically receive from new CD sales. I've done about 70 trades, so far mostly replacing things lost from my collection over the years now that I'm assembling a digital archive, but also some recent releases. I've even received some long out-of-print discs. Seems to be working well. Still in beta I believe, but I have some invitations, so I offer a lala invitation to the first five forum readers who contact me. -- bephillips The chaos on this planet is due to the music that musicians are playing that they are forced to play by some who just think of money and don't realize that music is a spiritual language, and it represents the people of Earth. When musicians are compelled to play anything, it goes straight to the throne of the Creator of the universe, and that is how He sees you: according to your music... It's what goes to the Creator as your personal ambassador - and your personal nemesis. -Sun Ra bephillips's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
There are plenty of artists who get no income from airplay because they're not played on the radio. They get all their income from sales, period. Sure it's a small proportion of the total retail cost of the CD, but it's 100% of their income. I know this for a fact because I know several artists and producers in this position - as well as being close friends with a indy label boss. Your description of how things works is at best misleading, and heavily slanted towards making people feel better about themselves. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Its a case of AllofMp3.com bringing the free market to the consumer and about time to! In the same way the guy selling discount laptops at the local pub is bringing the free market to the consumer? -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
radish Wrote: There are plenty of artists who get no income from airplay because they're not played on the radio. They get all their income from sales, period. Sure it's a small proportion of the total retail cost of the CD, but it's 100% of their income. I know this for a fact because I know several artists and producers in this position - as well as being close friends with a indy label boss. Your description of how things works is at best misleading, and heavily slanted towards making people feel better about themselves. In which case, are you going to find them on ITunes or AllofMp3.com anyway?? -- cparker cparker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2083 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
Quoting Michaelwagner ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
A word to the wise, or at least the wary.
If you scan the forums, you'll find many posts about the legality (or
lack thereof) of allofmp3.
And aside from the legal niceties, it isn't clear that the musicians
benefit from the sales on that site.
Here's how I get around this, in the very infrequent occasion what I want
isn't offered on emusic http://www.emusic.com or from the artists
themselves. Most of what I listen to is independent ('indie') rock.
- Buy desired item on iTunes.
- Delete tracks from iTunes.
- Purchase drm-free tracks from AllofMP3.
This way I gurantee that the artist gets the payment he deserves, which is
very important to me, and I also get drm-free tracks for about a dollar more
than just buying them through iTunes. If AllofMP3 ISN'T full of shit
(unlikely) and actually DOES pay the artist in their roundabout way, then
the artist may actually get paid twice -- sweet.
Once jhymn is able to de-DRM tunes bought from the iTunes store again, I'll
be able to skip steps 2 and 3.
dave
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[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
cparker Wrote: In Canada it's ASCAP; I'm not sure in the U.S. When you steal music, you're not hurting the artist, you're hurting the record company, and as I said above, paybacks are a bi_ch Artists and consumers alike have been ripped off by record companies for many years. Now they're suing the already unhappy and ripped off customers for downloading music. You can debate how you think it ought to work and how what you're doing is fair all day long. And while I don't agree with you point-by-point, I certainly generally agree that the radio-airplay/record-company/music distribution model is pretty screwed up. BUT...in the end, the law is the law. There are lots of laws that we might not agree with, but it would be a pretty chaotic world if all it took was disagreement with a law to justify the breaking of said law. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
cparker Wrote: It's the Royalties. Royalties are earned every time an artist's song is played on the radio or TV, as long as the artist wrote the song. If someone else wrote the song and the band took that song and recorded it, the band makes no royalties. The writer of the song does. This works differently in Canada. The band is also paid in Canada. I know because that's how a friend of mine earns money. She sang a trad song, ergo didn't write it, gets royalties if it's played on the air in Canada, but not if it's played in the states. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
cparker Wrote: Ok, here is my final input on this, taken from; http://blog.outer-court.com/forum/25240.html Hardly an authoritative source. It's just some guy spouting off on a blog. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Wheres everybody buying music now?
deserttaxguy Wrote: I dont like the rights management issues with the common commercial digital vendors and was wondering what the community suggests as the favorite sites. I just looked around one which I didnt like too much, but it did have total rights to the buyer of the tracks for all the independent or other artist looking to market on the internet. So, could you tell me your favorite spot to buy some tunes? P.S. just to avoid hassle I stll just buy CDs on line and have them mailed to my PO box. I dont deal with the whole I-tunes, Windows media thing.. At least I get total control of the digits. I still buy music from record stores, both brick and mortar and online. I wouldn't consider buying a download, even without the DRM issues, unless it was _significantly_ cheaper than the CD version of the same album and available in a lossless format. Also, I have no desire to only buy the one hit song from an album that's been played on the radio a million times. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25158 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
