[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-23 Thread your momo


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


I use standard remote 99% of time, it's quick and efficient, I mostly
browse by folder and play full albums and all this is working fine.

Sometimes, I use my Palm LifeDrive (WiFi) to access the Web interface
but only for show off effect as it's vague and fuzzy ...not all
functions are working well.
Up to now, I doesn't understand the real potential of Web interface,
except "rescan" function all the rest is useless to me, it's just to
complexe to play with, i.e. I don't catch the play list stuff, so I
don't use it.

As I'm not running my PC/server 24/7, I first need to boot and launch
SS6.5 prior powering the SB3, which is always cut from the power line
while not in use.
I would by fare prefer having some server functions like "rescan",
server "launch" and "shut down" available by direct access from the
remote to avoid to be in front of the PC to do this.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-12 Thread CardinalFang


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


The remote is OK, although only being able to see a limited number of
entries is a pain when doing a search, being ably to rapidly pick from
a list is easier if you can see all of the list, or at least more of it
than one entry - you don't know if your search was correct otherwise.
Becuase it is a "slim" device, response time can make stepping through
lists irrititating, it's not that it's slow, it's that it's uneven and
therefore hard to predict when to stop clicking. I wish the SB would
cache more so that scrolling happened at a fixed rate instead of going
back to the server each time.

The web interface is good for set-up, but bad for music selection.
There are just too many clicks to play some music and the affordance is
poor - it really isn't obvious what you do to play all the tracks from
an album for example. Does clicking the first song do it, or do I click
the album name? 

In any case all the niggles are dwarfed by the slow update. It's very
similar to the setup screen for my ADSL router, but I only do that very
occasionally. Having that same response time and clunky interface is
really poor for a consumer music player. I want snappy and simple, no
tiny buttons, but big obviopus ones. No extraneous data and
information, just the basics. Just because you can display all the
options on one page, that doesn't mean you should. 

A great example is the default start page. I have two panels, one
labeled "home", the other the name of my music player. Everything I
could possibly want to do is on those two panels, but why not just the
common operations? Why all the clutter - and it is clutter. Just how do
I play a album from the start page? It's what I immediately want to do,
but I have to work out that I first have to search or browse to find
the music first, rather than seeing a list of music straightaway that
lets me click straightaway on a track and play it. Even when I find a
track I have to know to hover over a tiny symbol to find out what it
does - and what's a playlist if I'm joe user? No obvious method on how
to create and manage one in the UI. When I do click on browse, there's
too many albums listed on each page and not enough room for obvious
functionality. Sure I can change that, but the defaults are too, too
confusing.

Of course people will say "once you get used to it it's really
powerful" and "it's for technically minded people" , but that really is
an cop-out for not thinking about use case in the design and carrying
out usability testing and high quality UI design work. It's great that
it exists, but as a consumer product it is Byzantine in operation, far
too complex and unresponsive.

OK, rant over!


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-11 Thread MelonMonkey


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


A skin usage poll could be useful.  Likely to start some flames like
anything else of course.

I primarily use the new-style remote because it's a very well designed
unit.  I didn't bother to add an activity to my Harmony 880 because
frankly, the Harmony line although usable, is very very dated and would
suck pretty bad for controlling the Squeezebox.

I use the Fishbone web UI with a bunch of mods I've made to improve
things here and there.  It's not vomit-pool awful, but it's pretty bad.
And Fishbone is the best web skin in my opinion.  Most usable with the
required functionality presented in the most logical places.

No matter what skin you use, the Web UI is slow. Increasing server
horsepower helps, but nothing is going to get you the same speed as a
dedicated browsing/navigation aplication.

I don't think Logitech will get SB tech into the hands of consumers
without a better UI. Typical consumers will buy Olive and Sonos
products for their respective strengths. Though I think Apple's new
Apple TV will quickly become the defacto standard for many folks. 

I hope Logitech can kick it into high gear soon and start with the
product announcements and various improvements needed to push this
product line to the front and keep it there.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-10 Thread morberg


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Michael Herger;168839 Wrote: 
> > I'd like to see a web interface for slimserver that resembles what
> you
> > get with orb 2.0.
> 
> What's orb 2.0?
A solution for streaming media (not only music) to any web enabled
device. See http://www.orb.com for more info.


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-10 Thread Michael Herger

I'd like to see a web interface for slimserver that resembles what you
get with orb 2.0.


What's orb 2.0?

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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-10 Thread morberg


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


I'd like to see a web interface for slimserver that resembles what you
get with orb 2.0.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Nostromo


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


> The
> red-lines-on-all-black looks very nice, but alternating colored rows or
> some
> other technique to match artist-and-buttons might be more usable.

An excellent suggestion


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Dave Dewey
Quoting Michael Herger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> >And, in that function, I expect it to work at least as well as other
> >media players out there. Those little up and down arrows are a pain to
> >use.
> 
> Wow, what an introduction to come to that simple point :-). I got it. That  
> last phrase is the kind of information I'd like to see more often. It's  
> simple, but so much more constructive than "the interface is awkward".

In the vein of possible simple fixes, I generally like the Fishbone skin a
great deal.  But on a wider screen, when I am scrolling a list of artists to
add to a playlist or to delete from one, it's very very hard to distinguish
which of the rows the artist is on.  You start way over at the left with the
artist name, then slide the cursor all the way across to the tiny buttons on
the right. Half the time I'm up or down a row (usually down).  The
red-lines-on-all-black looks very nice, but alternating colored rows or some
other technique to match artist-and-buttons might be more usable.

dd
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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Nostromo


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Kyle;168635 Wrote: 
> For me, Moose is much closer to what I would like to see in an
> interface.  Drag-and-drop would be great, too.

I tried Moose once, but it didn't work for some reason. Fortunately, I
mostly use the stock remote. So I tolerate the web UI for now. But if I
had to use the Web UI more frequently, I would be unhappy with it. I
would definitively make a switch to a GUI like Moose. 

Web UI and GUI both have pros and cons. But I don't think a web UI will
be ever be as responsive, as user-friendly and as intuitive as a GUI.
I'm not saying "scrap the web UI and replace it with a GUI". We don't
want to loose the benefits of the web UI. It would be nice if
SlimServer came with both. Not sure if its possible, though.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread ulvi


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


> In slimserver 6.2 & 6.3 the ExBrowse skin allowed exactly that
> kind of drag-and-drop. The author of that skin hasn't had time
> to update it to work with 6.5. I could be wrong, but I don't
> think the changes in 6.5 have broken the D&D capability.

Thanks! I am still using 6.3.1, and yes, ExBrowse3 does
have that D&D capability. The problem is it screws up
title formatting: Instead of using the settings I designed
for the title format (in Home/Server Settings/Formatting/Title format),
it uses a fixed format of its own. Is there
any way to change that behavior so my own title format
is used?


Ulvi


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Kyle


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


For me, Moose is much closer to what I would like to see in an
interface.  Drag-and-drop would be great, too.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread aubuti


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


ulvi;168616 Wrote: 
> Regarding the arrows: Is it possible to re-design this so that one can
> drag any item in the current playlist
> and drop it in a different location in the same list? Is drag-and-drop
> impossible to implement in this kind of web ui?

In slimserver 6.2 & 6.3 the ExBrowse skin allowed exactly that kind of
drag-and-drop. The author of that skin hasn't had time to update it to
work with 6.5. I could be wrong, but I don't think the changes in 6.5
have broken the D&D capability.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread ulvi


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Regarding the arrows: Is it possible to re-design
this so that one can drag any item in the current playlist
and drop it in a different location in the same list?
Is drag-and-drop impossible to implement in this kind
of web ui?


Ulvi


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Nostromo


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Michael Herger;168609 Wrote: 
> > And, in that function, I expect it to work at least as well as other
> > media players out there. Those little up and down arrows are a pain
> to
> > use.
> 
> Wow, what an introduction to come to that simple point :-). I got it.
> That  
> last phrase is the kind of information I'd like to see more often. It's
> 
> simple, but so much more constructive than "the interface is awkward".
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael
> 
> 

That's because I was trying to figure out why I feel that the interface
is awkward. You can feel that something is awkward without knowing
exactly why. A UI expert would have told, in minute detail, what works
and what doesn't. The "up" and "down" arrows are just an obvious
example of what doesn't work.


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Michael Herger

And, in that function, I expect it to work at least as well as other
media players out there. Those little up and down arrows are a pain to
use.


Wow, what an introduction to come to that simple point :-). I got it. That  
last phrase is the kind of information I'd like to see more often. It's  
simple, but so much more constructive than "the interface is awkward".


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Nostromo


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Michael Herger;168553 Wrote: 
>  That's not a definition, but only what you think is awful. Remember: a 
> 
> thousand flies can't be wrong - and they do like stuff you don't like
> ;-).
> 
> Just saying something's awful doesn't help those who would or could
> change  
> that feeling, achieve the goal. They need to know what you'd like to
> see  
> different. I know, a lot of things have been said before. But repeating
> 
> positive things could put some importance on it while collective  
> complaining _without_ any effort to at least tell what could be
> improved  
> is just boring, if not insulting.
> 

I can understand how programmers can find the web interface nifty. I
think you do, IIRC. 

But, for my part, as a user, I think it can be a pain. I'm not an UI
expert, mind you. A UI expert would tell you what's good and what's not
so good about the web UI. I'll try to be more precise. 

Well, I guess it depends on the function of the web interface. 
My router, for example, also has one. Its sole function is to change
this or that setting. And I have no complaints on that level. It does
its job.

But the function of the Slimserver web interface isn't simply to change
settings. Fo example, your supposed to be able to make playlists with
it. And, like jonheal pointed out earlier, its subpar: 

> When I do use the web UI, I use it to create playlists, and in that
> function, it is PAINFULLY slow and cumbersome.

And, in that function, I expect it to work at least as well as other
media players out there. Those little up and down arrows are a pain to
use.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread SlimPvC


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Ben Sandee;168561 Wrote: 
> On 1/8/07, Michael Herger 
> wrote:[color=blue]
> All the *cool* kids are bashing the SlimServer web interface these
> days.  It's just, you know, awful!
> 

O now THAT's a great argument! Most *cool* kids don't know there are
other MP3 players apart from their iPods. 

I know I am totally *uncool*, and maybe it's because I use it for quite
a few years now, but I think the web server does its job fine for me.
Just as the stock remote does. 

I know it (the webserver) could look better by nowadays standard, but I
don't think looks should be first priority. Functionality should be. 

In my time I have used different skins, but I always returned to the
default skin. 

Boy, I must be so *uncool* that I'm *hot* again

:-)


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Ben Sandee

On 1/8/07, Michael Herger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> Its an awful interface

Please define "awful".



Oh come on on Michael, get with it.  All the *cool* kids are bashing the
SlimServer web interface these days.  It's just, you know, awful!

Ben
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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Michael Herger

Well that does work, but having a touch sensitive panel I would rather
use something with buttons/links that don't require the stylus.


Get a browser update and use Touch/Nokia770 then. Those who can't effort  
Opera will have to stick with Handheld. It's your choice ;-)


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Michael Herger

I would define awful as say ... waking up in a pool of vomit, in which
case, I would rate the web UI as not quite that awful.


That's not a definition, but only what you think is awful. Remember: a  
thousand flies can't be wrong - and they do like stuff you don't like ;-).


Just saying something's awful doesn't help those who would or could change  
that feeling, achieve the goal. They need to know what you'd like to see  
different. I know, a lot of things have been said before. But repeating  
positive things could put some importance on it while collective  
complaining _without_ any effort to at least tell what could be improved  
is just boring, if not insulting.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Skunk


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Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Michael Herger;168451 Wrote: 
> 
> Handheld tries to do so: it uses little CSS, very little JS. It's a 
> compromise regarding features, layout and ressource/compatibility
> restrictions.

Well that does work, but having a touch sensitive panel I would rather
use something with buttons/links that don't require the stylus.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread jonheal


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- Stock Handheld Remote
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Michael Herger;168457 Wrote: 
> > Its an awful interface
> 
> Please define "awful".
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael
> 
> -
> http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
> http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

I would define awful as say ... waking up in a pool of vomit, in which
case, I would rate the web UI as not quite that awful.

:-)


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http://www.theheals.org/

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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread jonheal


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


I hardly ever use the web UI. The whole point of the Squeezebox was to
get the computer out of the living room.

When I do use the web UI, I use it to create playlists, and in the
function, it is PAINFULLY slow and cumbersome.

I use a Sony RM-VL600 instead of the stock SB3 remote. It does
everything the stock remote does, plus it controls the volume on my
receiver. I think it cost about $25.00.


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Jon Heal says:
Have a nice day!
http://www.theheals.org/

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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread Pale Blue Ego


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


adamslim;168540 Wrote: 
> An ideal interface for me would have frames that I could create, move
> around and customise, into which I could put things - my favourite
> genres (e.g. a 'Baroque' genre frame that listed my baroque artists),
> AlienBBC, Playlists, Server settings etc.  Then there would be a large
> frame for whatever the current selection from these subframes is, and a
> large frame for 'now playing/playlist.


Something like the www.netvibes.com interface, where you can drag,
drop, expand, arrange, add, remove, and customize each little panel. 
That would be sweet.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread adamslim


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


I have a silent PC in my main room, so use the web interface on that
most of the time.

I find that it works, but I would like more control over the look and
feel - much of the screen area is wasted, while some common operations
are several clicks.  Of course, this is just for me - others will have
their own systems.

An ideal interface for me would have frames that I could create, move
around and customise, into which I could put things - my favourite
genres (e.g. a 'Baroque' genre frame that listed my baroque artists),
AlienBBC, Playlists, Server settings etc.  Then there would be a large
frame for whatever the current selection from these subframes is, and a
large frame for 'now playing/playlist.

Presumably Skins are not easy to write?  Is there a guide anywhere?  It
might be a fun weekend project, one of those that stretches a little
beyond the weekend... :)

Finally I have stopped using my HTC Universal as it keeps turning off
the wifi and connecting to the net on each refresh (that would get
expensive quite quickly!); anyway it's just too small and slow.  The
remote is OK, but the web interface is just faster for the way I like
to browse.

Adam


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SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio
Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables
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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-09 Thread SadGamerGeek


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


I use the stick remote for my kitchen SB, and a Pronto (I love my
Pronto.) in my lounge. The web interface is only used if I happen
to already be in the middle of something on a PC.


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-08 Thread Michael Herger

Its an awful interface


Please define "awful".

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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-08 Thread Nostromo


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


I use the stock remote. It works just fine. I use the web interface
(Fishbone) when I have to. What do I think about it? Its an awful
interface, but since I don't have to use it that often, I tolerate it.
I haven't tried any third party UI yet.


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Re: [slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-08 Thread Michael Herger

My 640x480 touchscreen h/PC languishes here because even touch's CSS is


Touch == (Nokia770 - fixed window size)

Touch and Nokia770 are probably the most advanced skins when it comes to  
CSS and JavaScript.



too advanced for the ancient IE it uses. It's only limitation other than
the browser is b wireless, but lack of a mating skin is primarily what
keeps it dusty. I'm not mad at anyone for not developing to the least
common denominator, but I'm sure a lot of these devices exist.


Handheld tries to do so: it uses little CSS, very little JS. It's a  
compromise regarding features, layout and ressource/compatibility  
restrictions.


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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-08 Thread Skunk


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Michael Herger;168353 Wrote: 
> 
> Another interesting poll would be about the different skins.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael
> 
I can hear the stereo from the PC, so find myself Web interfacing
often. I use default, which works (well) for me. A framed version of
Nokia would be nice for desktops though. 

My 640x480 touchscreen h/PC languishes here because even touch's CSS is
too advanced for the ancient IE it uses. It's only limitation other than
the browser is b wireless, but lack of a mating skin is primarily what
keeps it dusty. I'm not mad at anyone for not developing to the least
common denominator, but I'm sure a lot of these devices exist.


-- 
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[slim] Re: web ui poll

2007-01-08 Thread snarlydwarf


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31443

Question: How do you control the Slimserver?

- Stock Handheld Remote
- 3rd Party Remote (Harmony, Nokia, PDA, &c)
- Web Interface
- 3rd Party Computer Interface (Moose, JRMC, &c)


Ah, good it lets me choose more than one item (though I doubt the
polling software is smart enough to report on that very well).  I use
the remote at home, and the web page when I am at work.

I get along fine with both, though a proper universal remote is always
on my wishlist (not because of the Squeezebox, just because every
universal I have tried is "almost" right, not quite really right... so
at some point I will get a Harmony to program it correctly instead of
'choose the maker of your dvd player from this list and guess which
code to use'...)


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