Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-06 Thread sander

I think a chumby style boom box would be a nice addition, but I would
say they need to do a lot of work on the Squeezeplay software.


-- 
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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-06 Thread Goodsounds

TiredLegs;429034 Wrote: 
 .. if I were Logitech, I'd go after the guy and smack him with legal
 fees.)

Very, very unlikely. Unless I'm missing something, there would be
nothing to be gained by doing so.


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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-05 Thread TiredLegs

funkstar;429218 Wrote: 
 That is assuming they made him sign a NDA in the first place. You don't
 always have to do this for focus groups.
I work for a company that occasionally does focus groups, and I have
watched dozens of them over the years. Even moderated a couple myself.
Never seen one involving unreleased products that did not require the
participants to sign an NDA.


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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-05 Thread DoomWolf

TiredLegs;429490 Wrote: 
 I work for a company that occasionally does focus groups, and I have
 watched dozens of them over the years. Even moderated a couple myself.
 Never seen one involving unreleased products that did not require the
 participants to sign an NDA.

I've been in various focus groups for the car industry. I got to see
the Mazda CX-7, Audi A5 (all expenses paid trip to Berlin for that one)
and Vauxhall Insignia (the only one where we didn't know which car
manufacturer it was for) long before they were on sale and never had to
sign any NDA. They were of course very strict about making sure no-one
had any photographic or recording equipment with them when they saw the
cars or discussed them.


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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-04 Thread funkstar

TiredLegs;429034 Wrote: 
 I hope the poster of this info on the Sonos forum, walera, realizes that
 he has violated the confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement that
 Logitech had him sign as a condition of participation in the focus
 group. (Hint, hint, if I were Logitech, I'd go after the guy and smack
 him with legal fees.)
That is assuming they made him sign a NDA in the first place. You don't
always have to do this for focus groups. 

Also, what is included in a focus group is not necesarily what will be
produced. After all, they might not have gone down well.


-- 
funkstar

my collection:
*1*x boom
*2*x controller, *1*x receiver
*2*x sb3 (sliver/black, *1*x sb2 wired (silver), *1*x sb (black)
*1*x slimp3 (with rear shield)

interested in any others if you have them!

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-03 Thread TiredLegs

I hope the poster of this info on the Sonos forum, walera, realizes that
he has violated the confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement that
Logitech had him sign as a condition of participation in the focus
group. (Hint, hint, if I were Logitech, I'd go after the guy and smack
him with legal fees.)


-- 
TiredLegs

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-02 Thread maggior

This has made for some interesting reading.  It seems to have been quiet
on the SB front lately.  I chalked it up to slowed development due to a
slowed economy.

I've been otherwise occupied since the birth of my son in March (who I
am bouncing in his bouncy seat with my foot as I type this message :-),
so I haven't been following the forums here as much as I used to.

There seems to be quite a delay with the release of the 7.3.3 version
of the server.  Might they be holding it up so its release coincides
with the release of new hardware?  I seem to recall that this happened
with 7.0 and the release of the Duet, and 7.2 (??) with the Boom.

I probably won't be in the market for any of the new devices, but the
gadget geek in me would be anxious to see what they are all about.


-- 
maggior

Rich
-
Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver.  SuSE 11.0 Server running
SqueezeCenter 7.2.1 (7.3 had dropouts for me) and SqueezeSlave.  MusicIP
has been turned off temporarily while I move to a lossless version of my
library.
http://www.last.fm/user/maggior

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-06-02 Thread snarlydwarf

maggior;428881 Wrote: 
 
 There seems to be quite a delay with the release of the 7.3.3 version
 of the server.  Might they be holding it up so its release coincides
 with the release of new hardware?  I seem to recall that this happened
 with 7.0 and the release of the Duet, and 7.2 (??) with the Boom.

No, I think the delay on 7.3.3 is SBC firmware stability.  They've done
a ton of work trying to iron out connectivity problems some people are
having, but there's a whole thread on this is better/no, it still
sucks type posts for qa to figure out.


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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-27 Thread BastiaanR

dsdreamer;426873 Wrote: 
 It will be hard to support a mass market media streaming eco-system on
 11g, as the bandwidth is getting to crowded and home users don't usually
 do site surveys.  A major source of performance complaints in these
 forums are basic connectivity issues. 
 
 Sonos has a proprietary mesh-flavored approach to solving this, if I
 understand correctly.  Draft 802.11n in the 5GHz UN-II bands is probably
 the nearest we have to a real solution, but none of the SD products
 supports that, yet. Take a look at the range extension you can get from
 .11n these days and apply that at 5GHz and you have given yourself scope
 to provide really reliable wireless streaming.
 
 My main point is that growth is not possible without reliable and
 plentiful wireless bandwidth with a decent shot at whole house coverage.

I would love support for the N wireless standard. Not that the SB
itself needs it, but I'm using the SB as a wireless bridge for an old
XBOX running XBMC, and I use that to stream movies to my TV.


-- 
BastiaanR

If it doesn't work the first time around, get a bigger hammer.

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-27 Thread Peter
jo-wie wrote:
 A big and readable color display maybe, but a touch screen? Why do I
 need a touch screen on the stationary system. I need a good remote.
   

I suspect the new touch screen SB won't have the usual SB3 menu's, but 
will run squeezeplay instead. Think of it more like a big standing up 
controller with line and digital outputs. If that's true, perhaps you 
won't be able to use the classic remote, but just a controller, or 
perhaps some new type of remote.

Regards,
Peter

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-27 Thread jo-wie

peter;426968 Wrote: 
 jo-wie wrote:
  A big and readable color display maybe, but a touch screen? Why do I
  need a touch screen on the stationary system. I need a good remote.

 
 I suspect the new touch screen SB won't have the usual SB3 menu's, but
 
 will run squeezeplay instead. Think of it more like a big standing up 
 controller with line and digital outputs. If that's true, perhaps you 
 won't be able to use the classic remote, but just a controller, or 
 perhaps some new type of remote.
 
 Regards,
 Peter

I was thinking about where it makes sense to have those extented
controls on a unit which could be a replacement for a SB3. Makes no real
sense for me. But in a narrow enviroment like a kitchen could it be an
enhancement, like the buttons on a Boom. And I saw some posts of people
who build a touch screen system and found it in the daily use at least
useless.

And I do not know what touch screen means: a interactiv screen
control like a iPod touch, or more simply a touch triggert control like
on the Logi Z-10 speakers?


-- 
jo-wie

SB Classic, SC 7.3.3 auf GigaByte STA/C mit VIA C7 1GHz, 1GB RAM, 250 GB
2,5 HD, Ubuntu Desktop 8.04

last.fm/user/jo-wie

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-27 Thread signor_rossi

jo-wie;426993 Wrote: 
 I was thinking about where it makes sense to have those extented
 controls on a unit which could be a replacement for a SB3. Makes no real
 sense for me. But in a narrow enviroment like a kitchen could it be an
 enhancement, like the buttons on a Boom. And I saw some posts of people
 who build a touch screen system and found it in the daily use at least
 useless.
 
 And I do not know what touch screen means: a interactiv screen
 control like a iPod touch, or more simply a touch triggert control like
 on the Logi Z-10 speakers?

What if this big stationary touch screen controller includes an ARM
based fanless server that can run SC? Of course it then would have to
include either wireless N in the case that the music would be stored on
a NAS or it would have to include an USB or eSATA port for external hard
disks...


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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-27 Thread jo-wie

signor_rossi;427033 Wrote: 
 What if this big stationary touch screen controller includes an ARM
 based fanless server that can run SC? Of course it then would have to
 include either wireless N in the case that the music would be stored on
 a NAS or it would have to include an USB or eSATA port for external hard
 disks...

Interesting, my vision is a receiver incl. a SC server :). But 802.11N
is not a solution as long as it is a DRAFT. Just have a look at the
problems people do have with compatibility between G devices. And I
suppose that some new upcoming problems with G units are due to
inteferences with draft N AP which a more and more used by the people
(ok, not at 5GHz). And interoperability between draft N units, is this
as good as between G units?


-- 
jo-wie

SB Classic, SC 7.3.3 auf GigaByte STA/C mit VIA C7 1GHz, 1GB RAM, 250 GB
2,5 HD, Ubuntu Desktop 8.04

last.fm/user/jo-wie

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-26 Thread Pale Blue Ego

OK, this spate of new hardware coincides with Sean's departure, so what
might that tell us?  It seems like Sean decided to stay through this
product development cycle before seeking new pastures.  I postulate that
Sean's role has been diminished for quite a while, as Logitech continues
to release products which are variations on the SB3 platform.  They are
essentially taking Slim's work on the SB3 and repackaging it with
Logitech-type enhancements like portability, built-in speakers, and
color-screen remote control.  Which is fine, but it doesn't give Sean
much to do.


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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-26 Thread Goodsounds

Pale Blue Ego;426702 Wrote: 
 OK, this spate of new hardware coincides with Sean's departure, so what
 might that tell us?  It seems like Sean decided to stay through this
 product development cycle before seeking new pastures.  I postulate that
 Sean's role has been diminished for quite a while, as Logitech continues
 to release products which are variations on the SB3 platform.  They are
 essentially taking Slim's work on the SB3 and repackaging it with
 Logitech-type enhancements like portability, built-in speakers, and
 color-screen remote control.  Which is fine, but it doesn't give Sean
 much to do.

Your comments make sense to me.

I'd posted some months ago that it is unusual for founders to stay
around for so long after an acquisition. It appears the reason they did
is that there is a contingent payout from Logitech to Sean et al if 2009
revenue exceeds certain levels. He would have been motivated to do
whatever possible to contribute to 2009 performance but in any event
would have normally been expected to leave after the contingent payout
either is or isn't achieved. My guess is that there will be more
departures in the coming months. 

I welcome the evolution of the basic technology to new forms and hope
that gives the product line something more than the only modest success
it has had to date. While the technology is awesome and has done so much
for the enthusiasts who visit here (and the silent majority who don't),
the failure to achieve significant market success could ultimately doom
the whole undertaking. But it may be that it is indeed a niche market of
limited size.


-- 
Goodsounds

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-26 Thread Dingostrategy

Yes yes I know it's been asked before

But, would anyone care to consider my hypothesis that if SD came out
with a 'box'  - think something like a NAS or a fitPC or mac mini (or
the sonos lump), Squeeze would be almost entirely on a par with Sonos?
BUT SD would have the added benefits of being totally tweakable with
opensource mods, and of course one is not limited to proprietary
amplifiers?

Further, the notion that SD is no good for multiple rooms has been
demonstrated to be utter balls time and time again. Fair enough sonos is
just plug and play, but even with my junk server and router, I handle
three just fine through concrete walls, without any hint of a delay in
syncing. Once or twice, I admit to having had sync issues on SN but its
a tiny price to pay, and takes a few seconds to fix by pausing and
restarting (might be just lucky).

All these new products is getting confusing. I thought we were all just
using SB3s until we could afford transporters and other geat to justify
one (and a boom for the guestroom!)

Keep the gear simple and tidy/slick up the back end (server and
controller) and what we have is something for everyone.

I add that I have used sonos. Its a neat party trick and anyone can use
it. Sounds good and is reliable. I just find the SD stuff so much more
flexible to fiddling around with different requirements. Price was not a
factor in my case since I initially had high-end gear after the
transport even though now as you can see in my sig I have crud. A
handsome controller and an optional in house server thingamajig would
cause some headaches over at sonos (but I do concur that both have space
in the market).


-- 
Dingostrategy

The traveling life: incompatible with high-end audio.

Lounge: SB3 + AE2
Kitchen: SB3 + $80 bookshelf stereo. Top shelf gear.
You've been served: Sony laptop, XP Pro and a bunch of consumer level
routers and VNC and so-on. 
Remote and in control: iPod touch/iPeng

+ a boom now ordered +  + a storage shed 'back home in Australia' with
my proper, retro setup :(

Dear Mother, kindly forward underwear, DAC and those Jensen's I bought
offa ebay

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-26 Thread andynormancx

iPhone;426460 Wrote: 
 He needs to learn or research a product before he states what it can or
 can't do. The Squeezebox can do so much more then the Sonos anyday of
 the week and there is only one thing Sonos can do that a Squeezebox
 can't, and that is require one to us an expensive propriatary wireless
 network and force me to use their amp! 
It seems ironic that you are bashing someone for being misinformed
about Squeezeboxes and then you go on to state something incorrect about
the Sonos...

In no way do the Sonos boxes force you to use their amp. One of the
zone players doesn't even have an amp ! The other one has digital and
analog audio outputs, allowing you to bypass the amp.


-- 
andynormancx

Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ?
I SAID ALL OF THEM !

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-26 Thread eganders

Goodsounds;426718 Wrote: 
 Your comments make sense to me.
 
 I'd posted some months ago that it is unusual for founders to stay
 around for so long after an acquisition. It appears the reason they did
 is that there is a contingent payout from Logitech to Sean et al if 2009
 revenue exceeds certain levels. He would have been motivated to do
 whatever possible to contribute to 2009 performance but in any event
 would have normally been expected to leave after the contingent payout
 either is or isn't achieved. My guess is that there will be more
 departures in the coming months. 
 
 I welcome the evolution of the basic technology to new forms and hope
 that gives the product line something more than the only modest success
 it has had to date. While the technology is awesome and has done so much
 for the enthusiasts who visit here (and the silent majority who don't),
 the failure to achieve significant market success could ultimately doom
 the whole undertaking. But it may be that it is indeed a niche market of
 limited size.

And there are probably some non-compete provisions in there too,
otherwise, one might expect to see Sean move to video players (and maybe
he still can as video might just have been a gleam in the eye when
Logitech first purchased Slim Devices).  Though reading Sean's comments
on the forum, he's always seemed to be an audio guy.

I don't disagree that the market hasn't become as large as some have
wished for. Though personally I think it's kind of cool having something
really special that everyone else doesn't have.  Nonetheless, everyone
I've introduced to the SB lineup to has been sufficiently impressed, and
many have purchased product.  At this point, I doubt if too many of them
would be willing to go back to just a radio.  We've all read comments
about SB or Sonos, and the desire to dump particular product.  I can't
recall ever reading that someone wants to dump the technology and go
back to FM radio.

Famous people have often uttered a phrase similar to I worked 20 years
and finally I'm an overnight success.  The Internet digital revolution
is working it's way down that same path - Squeezebox included.  Before
too long, all the major HiFi manufacturers will jump on the band wagon
too.  It may be slow, but the train is coming.


-- 
eganders

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-26 Thread dsdreamer

It will be hard to support a mass market media streaming eco-system on
11g, as the bandwidth is getting to crowded and home users don't usually
do site surveys.  A major source of performance complaints in these
forums are basic connectivity issues. 

Sonos has a proprietary mesh-flavored approach to solving this, if I
understand correctly.  Draft 802.11n in the 5GHz UN-II bands is probably
the nearest we have to a real solution, but none of the SD products
supports that, yet. Take a look at the range extension you can get from
.11n these days and apply that at 5GHz and you have given yourself scope
to provide really reliable wireless streaming.

My main point is that growth is not possible without reliable and
plentiful wireless bandwidth with a decent shot at whole house coverage.


-- 
dsdreamer

--
Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you...

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[slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread Nikhil

Was surprised to see this on the Sonos site, but a search here didn't
turn up anything. Does anyone know what this is all about?

http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=13043highlight=squeezebox


-- 
Nikhil

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread Sike

Now we're talking!!

On a side note, without wanting to start a flame war: I like the way
the sonos forum people think that their product was first :) Long live
the slimp3!


-- 
Sike

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread Peter
Nikhil wrote:
 Was surprised to see this on the Sonos site, but a search here didn't
 turn up anything. Does anyone know what this is all about?

 http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=13043highlight=squeezebox
   

Interesting! I'll be interested to see the battery life on the portable 
player. Could be interesting.

This one's nice too:

A very appealing device that looks like a touch-screen, stand-up 
version of the Sonos controller, with jacks in the back to connect to 
your powered speakers or stereo, and a headphone jack. It's as if the 
Sonos controller was mashed up with the iPod touch controller and the 
ZP90. This will be $299.

I actually 'suggested' that product not too long ago. I'll probably be 
getting one if they look nice. A big(ger) display with album display and 
a touch screen interface would be perfect for the living room. I'll 
mostly be using the controller, but this is really nice to have as a 
focus point. I do REALLY hope the headphone jack supports IR and 
PowerSwitch...

Regards,
Peter

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread gorman

Quite an attitude in the first reply to that thread.

It's a cheaper product that usually appeals to those who can't afford
Sonos.

Wow... never though of myself as an el cheapo customer. :|

Also, multiroom functionality is now perfect on a wired connection
(can't speak about wireless as I would never trust flawless music
playback to Wi-Fi, which is prone to interference, no matter what Sonos
might be stating...).

Edit: I don't have direct experience with Sonos products, just to be
clear.


-- 
gorman

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread autopilot

gorman;426316 Wrote: 
 Quite an attitude in the first reply to that thread.
 
 It's a cheaper product that usually appeals to those who can't afford
 Sonos.
 

I would pay little attention to RO53BEN if were you. Seasoned
Squeezebox basher and uber Sonos fanboy, famous for his long running and
tireless anti-squeezebox campaign.


-- 
autopilot

Cheers, auto.

-don't call me Shirley.-

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread gorman

autopilot;426324 Wrote: 
 I would pay little attention to RO53BEN (also known as jafacake) if were
 you. Seasoned Squeezebox basher and tedious Sonos uber-fanboy, famous
 for his long running and tireless anti-squeezebox campaign.Thanks, it helps 
 in putting stuff in context. :)


-- 
gorman

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread BlueScreenJunky

Oh...
let's wait and see but I'm not really excited about those. I was more
waiting for an upgraded, higher end SB Classic, something that would go
between the SB Classic and the Transporter. I'm not really into fancy
touchscreens and controllers.


also :
 a boombox/clock-radio for $299
Sounds like a SB Boom to me ^^;


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BlueScreenJunky

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread MikeekiM

It's more than just a boom...  I was talking to someone a few months ago
from Logitech, and told them that while I loved the Boom, it was still
just a little too big for me to consider it an bedside alarm clock...

What I was looking for was something much smaller (like the old Sony
Dream Machine clocks)...  I told them that I really didn't care if it
was stereo or mono...just that it be made for a bedroom side table...

When I finished (and again, this was a couple of months ago), the
person told me just wait...we are coming out with something that is
just what you are looking for...

I doubt they will come out with a mono cube sized unit...  It'll
probably be more like a rectangle shaped product so that they can fit
two small stereo speakers in it...  I just don't see them going mono...


-- 
MikeekiM

1 SqueezeBox Duet
3 SqueezeBox Booms

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread jo-wie

A big and readable color display maybe, but a touch screen? Why do I
need a touch screen on the stationary system. I need a good remote.


-- 
jo-wie

SB Classic, SC 7.3.3 auf GigaByte STA/C mit VIA C7 1GHz, 1GB RAM, 250 GB
2,5 HD, Ubuntu Desktop 8.04

last.fm/user/jo-wie

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Re: [slim] Updated Squeezebox products?

2009-05-25 Thread iPhone

gorman;426382 Wrote: 
 Thanks, it helps in putting stuff in context. :)

As for RO53BEN on the Sonus Forum and I believe known as Jafacake on
this Forum, he rants about Sonos and bashes (most of the time
incorrectly) Squeezebox. Appologees to Jafacake if he is indeed not
RO53BEN.

At the end of his Squeezebox Bashing, he trys to justify his incorrect
points by comparing Squeezebox to iPods set up in separate runs. First a
Squeezebox has full higher fidelity stereo output then the Sonos from
either analog or digital outs and can be Sync'd and/or controlled from
anywhere in ones home. He needs to learn or research a product before he
states what it can or can't do. The Squeezebox can do so much more then
the Sonos anyday of the week and there is only one thing Sonos can do
that a Squeezebox can't, and that is require one to us an expensive
propriatary wireless network and force me to use their amp! I believe
that Sonos now has an app for iPhone also. Sonos has its place, but for
most people they can save a bunch of money and have much better results
with Squeezebox.


-- 
iPhone

*iPhone*   
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's,
Vandersteen Quatro, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, VCC-5 Reference
Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1  


Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1  

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: SB3, GFR-700HD, Thiel 2.3, Second Boom
Home Office: SB3, NAD C370, two VSM-1
Home Gym: SB3, Parasound Vamp v.3, Thiel PowerPoint 1.2
House Portable: SB3, Audioengine A5
Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Expedition: SB3, ToughBook

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