Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
In order to actually break into the mass market with the squeezebox Logitech would have to dumb it down to the point where any and all appeal to the Enthusiast would be lost, I happen to work for Tech Support in a IT Company, you'd be surprised at the level of technical knowledge the Mass market has, they often don't even know what OS is running on their PC, or what Product they are contacting us about, so how do you want them to handle Installation of SBS, Third Party Plugins and so on? it just doesn't work for the Mass market if it requires even the most basic technical knowledge. So unless a radical change of concept happens then the Squeezebox won't ever really have a big appeal in the Mass market. I think they should continue to have the Squeezeboxes as a Enthusiast Product and then come up with some completely dumbed down and locked down separate productline for the Mass Market, just my 2 cents. -- naokaji naokaji's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43419 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
erland;636300 Wrote: The result would be similar to the Squeezebox Touch with a local hard drive. In the mass market it got to be easy, plug in the device and connect the external USB drive with music and start playing, no installation or configuration on a computer what so ever. It would of course require the Touch to actually work with most of the USB drives out there and also work reliably without an external server. This is contrary to what is happening in other areas of streaming - namely video streaming. DirecTV now offeres a DVR setup where you can network your salettlite reveivers and access your DVR from any receiver on your network. This includes scechuling recording and playback of recorded material. It's basically a client/server architecture much like the current Squeezebox setup. I'm pretty sure Verizon offers a similar setup for FiOS. Since this concept seems to be gaining traction in an area where many people care (people seem to be more attached to their TVs than their sound systems), why would Logitech want to take a step backwards? -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 Duet, 1 Receiver, 1 Touch, iPeng on iPod Touch. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeBoxServer 7.5.0, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 34,767 songs, 2,776 albums, 505 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
I think the Touch with TinySC is already mass market compatible. Give it more processing power, so that it wouldn't upset people who try it. Give it access to Samba Network Shares and it would feel much more like Sonos, that does not force people to setup a dedicated server, but already have a simple NAS Two easy steps, only Logitech knows, why these are nor taken. -- bluegaspode Did you know: *'SqueezePlayer' (www.squeezeplayer.com)* will stream all your music to your Android device. Take your music everywhere! Remote Control + Streaming to your iPad? *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? = why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? = why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Some thoughts from me... Slim Devices was very much an advanced niche product bought by a company that generally deals in mass market peripherals, it seems to me that the old slim devices team/products have become lost in the big logitech pool, treading water, all marketing has been removed, the team has been reduced and no-one knows whether additional products will be released. On the plus side, the Touch and Radio products were well received I believe, would be interested to see the sales stats for those also. On top of that user habits have changed in the last few years, I think with the advent of smartphones that a lot of people want jack of all trade devices for home, and as mentioned music systems seem to be less of importance compared to tv/home theatre type systems and thats where the money for streaming will be spent more I believe in the future. The SB product range is for music fans generally however doesn't have the mass market appeal - lets face it the mass market either runs iTunes from a PC, has an ipod/iphone docked music player or a way of plugging their ipod/iphone into - having network streamed players is beyond the capabilities of most. Sonos appeals more to people with more cash as its plug and play but they have desperately tried to hang-on to the Apple generation by pushing iPhone/iPad apps/ipod docks more then their own controllers for example. I don't know which way the product line will go, for me my current set-up works very well and as a music lover I can't ask for anymore, I have all my local music mixed with internet radio and online services, sure there are improvements here and there but it does exactly what I want -- socistep socistep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Heuer;635735 Wrote: To be fair this is a contracting market especially with the direction Apple have mapped out for us with iCloud. Apple can take their iCloud and ram it up their iArse. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Phil Leigh;636202 Wrote:
Apple can take their iCloud and ram it up their iArse.
Just because it's Apple or do you have some other reason ?
What about a LogitechCloud ?
Or maybe SlimCloud :-)
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
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Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
erland;636219 Wrote: Just because it's Apple or do you have some other reason ? What about a LogitechCloud ? Or maybe SlimCloud :-) No, just because it's a cloud and thus out of my control... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
I,m inclined to think the iCloud came from the iAr*** not the otherway around :) But cloud anything will eventually be zanitized disneyfied and contentcontrolled and out of your hands, it may not be soo now but it's only a matter of time.. Most are even today happy about renting thier musik from services etc -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Like any mass-vs-hobbist product there's not going to be one generic product that covers every need. Just like integrated cameras in smartphones aren't about to kill the high end camera market, integrated player software or simplistic products are not going to end the niche the SB products play in. Is the SB something everybody should have in their home? No. But for many of us with audiophile aspirations and that view their music as a collection (and not a short term repository of current hits) the SB concept has and will retain a lot of appeal because of its range and flexibility. Will it be a large enough market for Logitech? Not sure, but that's a different question, and I am sure the market is large enough to attract someone's attention and cater to the SB installed base no matter what. -- pablolie ...pablo Server: MiniITX build w/Intel DH61DL i3-2100T - Ubuntu 11.04 - SBS 7.5.4 Sources: SB3 (3), SB Boom (3), Duet (1), Radio (1), Accuphase DP65v CD (used as DAC mostly) Amplifiers: Accuphase E306v - Creek OBH21/22 Loudspeakers: Ceeroy 3-way tower (tuned) - Audioengine 5/S8 - Acoustic Energy Aego M Headphones: Grado SR-1 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
pablolie;636295 Wrote: Like any mass-vs-hobbist product there's not going to be one generic product that covers every need. Just like integrated cameras in smartphones aren't about to kill the high end camera market, integrated player software or simplistic products are not going to end the niche the SB products play in. Is the SB something everybody should have in their home? No. But for many of us with audiophile aspirations and that view their music as a collection (and not a short term repository of current hits) the SB concept has and will retain a lot of appeal because of its range and flexibility. Will it be a large enough market for Logitech? Not sure, but that's a different question, and I am sure the market is large enough to attract someone's attention and cater to the SB installed base no matter what. The below is pure speculation and not based on any facts. I think the problem is that Logitech currently doesn't seem to know which users they like to target: - It's pretty clear they aren't targeting the geeks/audiophiles anymore because most of the advanced features aren't prioritized - It's also pretty clear that they aren't targeting the mass market because they don't dare to upset the current customer base and simplify the devices for the mass market. It's also pretty clear they try to spend as few resources as possible on Squeezebox development at the moment, which probably also is one of the reasons why we don't see any move in any of the directions since either direction would require development resources. If they like to target the niche market, I believe it would require a smaller company to run the business, something similar to Sonos or Slim Devices. Possibly it could also work if there were a dedicated unit within a big company like Logitech that executed the development and business. However, as soon as upper management cares, it's going to fail within a big company because it's too small compared to everything else they are doing. It's always going to be easier to produce and sell mices, at least as long as mices haven't been completely replaced with touchpad devices and touch screens. So in my mind, targeting the mass market is the only solution for Logitech, the question is just if they dare to make the decisions required to re-target the products this way. It's certainly going to hurt their existing customer base which have a lot higher percentage of geeks and audiophiles than most mass market products. If they really decide to re-target towards mass market it could mean things like: - Drop SqueezeOS as platform and use a standard framework like Android or something else similar. - Drop local computer based server (SBS) and only focus on mysqueezebox.com and to listen to local music you would have to connect a USB drive directly to one of the Squeezebox devices. The result of this could, but doesn't have to, mean dropped support for third party plugins and instead possibly focus on supporting third party applets running directly on the device. - Drop web interface support, the devices have to be controlled via a iOS/Android device or IR remote - Drop support for advanced configuration options - Drop focus on audio quality, it needs to be good enough but it doesn't have to be state of the art. The result would be similar to the Squeezebox Touch with a local hard drive. In the mass market it got to be easy, plug in the device and connect the external USB drive with music and start playing, no installation or configuration on a computer what so ever. It would of course require the Touch to actually work with most of the USB drives out there and also work reliably without an external server. It of course doesn't make much sense to do the above changes on existing products, so what we are seeing now is probably Logitech trying to get as much as possible out of existing customers and still spend as little resources as possible on maintenance, support and marketing. Just putting the existing products on the shelf in the stores is going to sell some devices, even with minimal maintenance/support, so it's worth for them to milk existing customers a bit more. If Logitech wants to continue in the audio streaming business but move towards mass market, we are probably going to see something completely new. It might be called Squeezebox, to re-use the brand, but it's probably not going to be particular similar to the Squeezebox devices we have seen so far. It's going to have less focus on audio quality and customization possibilities and more focus on simplicity and price. Possibly based on similar platform and hardware as Logitech Revue, possibly developed by completely different resources than the current Squeezebox team who is tied too much to this geek community and don't want to upset us. However, once again, this is just speculation and I'm probably completely wrong about all this. As long as Logitech has understand the advantage of supporting third
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Logitech need to sell products in volume - it is the way their business operates. They have tried to move the Squeeezebox away from the enthusiast community with their new products and have found the current software meets the needs of 99% of owners. In which case why should they bother with anything other than shifting boxes and making money? The upstart Network Media Jukeboxes are coming out of companies that resemble the Slim Devices of old - cutting edge and working with users to refine their product. Many have fallen by the wayside but Popcorn Hour seems to be hanging in there. Yes, it is an enthusiast device at present although the interface is getting slicker and it is quite stable with regular updates. Western Digital has taken an interest in NMJ's and released their own version, the WD Live TV Hub, so I think they are becoming accepted into the mainstream. The ideal would be a Squeezeserver device that can also deal with video/photos/internet. Seems to me Logitech have a great platform to work from with a huge installed base who could easily be convinced to add a multi-media SB 'Watch' to their network. -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
I agree with the above two comments. Logitech (and most companies like logitech) are mass market companies and must focus on volume and the average consumer. This said, it is pretty amazing what we get in the TOUCH package in terms of out-of-the-box performance for a very CHEAP priceand this is because of the mass market, not in spite of it. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
My only hope is that when Logitech discontinues the line of WiFi Players that they leave us with a decent version of the software. Right now the software is a mess. Too few developers, and as far as I can tell, no testers other than the user community. I'm surprised they don't just release it as an open source project and let the community maintain it. -- steve781 steve781's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42824 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
First, they've already left us with several decent versions of the software. If you're worried, go to downloads.slimdevices.com now and download all the versions you may ever want. And go over to update.slimdevices.com to pick up all the firmware as well. Second, the server is already open source software. That doesn't mean it's an uncontrolled free-for-all, but anyone who wants to contribute can. Many capable contributors get understandably frustrated by the poor communication from Logitech, but there is considerable community input already. Even so, despite the considerable weaknesses of Logitech's QA, I think you'd find it hard for completely community-led effort to do better, or even as well. Spend some time in the Beta or Developers forums, or on bugzilla, and I think you'll see that even though there aren't enough paid developers, we're way better off with what we would have without them. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Well I wouldn't bother downloading 7.5.3 because it has a nasty bug that causes the server to hang. So much for QA. The problem is I see Logitech as reducing it's WiFi audio resources not growing or even maintaining them. I think they need to take a step back and cleanup the code base before adding anything new. That way when the last guy shuts the lights off we are left with something with few if any defects. I knew there was open access to the code (I've used Subversion to download and modify the alarm code for SqueezeOS), but I didn't know we could check-in our changes to the code base. I think because I enjoy the products so much, when I do find a problem, I'm more likely to want it resolved to make it perfect. -- steve781 steve781's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42824 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
To be fair this is a contracting market especially with the direction Apple have mapped out for us with iCloud. Smart phones can do most of what the various Squeeze products can do so where is the demand? When I show people my SB system they are hugely underwhelmed, yet three years ago they were fascinated. Logitech needs to turn its attention to video and produce something that will go head to head with the Popcorn Hour C200 Network Media Jukebox. It is developing fast and already deals with audio (including FLAC), photos, video (everything you can throw at it), Internet content, Blu-Ray and has an active development community. True convergence of all sources into one box. Logitech have a lot of catching up to do or they need to abandon the market before the rug is pulled out from under them. -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
It's funny, everyone is in love with their smartphone, but the reality is it's not a great music player. Logitech has a niche market and they really need to focus on it. Radio - Do people use smartphones as alarms? I would much rather spend $100 on the Radio, than $20 for a crappy clock radio. The problem is Logitech can't seem to get the alarm code right, so unless you want to run your own server I wouldn't recommend it. Boom - Sometimes it's nice to listen to music without earbuds. What better portable music device than one that can play internet radio stations from around the world, Pandora, Sirius, and your entire music collection. The problem here is they forgot to offer a builtin battery pack to make it truly portable. Touch - Us old timers still enjoy listening to music that fills the room. What better way to get all the content mentioned above to your hifi audio system. The problem here is that todays generation has been taught to listen to low bitrate music through $10 earbuds. They are happy with it because they don't know what their missing. So the bottom line is that Logitech should do a better job of marketing their products. Advertise, work with retailers for product placement, and make the products usable to the average music lover. If all this was done right, every household would have at least one Radio as an alarm clock and possibly a Boom or Touch. Unfortunately, we are a long way from those numbers. -- steve781 steve781's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42824 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
steve781;635728 Wrote:
I knew there was open access to the code (I've used Subversion to
download and modify the alarm code for SqueezeOS), but I didn't know we
could check-in our changes to the code base.
You can't commit unless Logitech have given you write access, it's
mostly Logitech people who have write access to the Subversion
repository, the rest of us have read-only access.
However, you can register a bug and attach a patch to it if you have
done a change which you would like to be committed and someone from
Logitech will take a look at it and commit it if they like the patch.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
I'm torn here. There's so many ways to get your music from anywhere to anywhere, unlike when I purchased my (still-running) SB2 nearly six years ago, when it was one of the few options. There's still a lot of players and for most users the simplest solution will win. That's probably AirPlay if you're an Apple user, otherwise it's DLNA or whatever. Only if you care about sound or have a large library do you need something better. There will always be a market for those people and I don't know how well Logitech is prepared to handle that market in the future. I think they don't know if they're going for that market or the mass media market, and thus they're not really anywhere. I do think as well they lose some business to Sonos. Hey, we all know its limitations and that it's expensive, but it's also dirt simple for people who have a little extra money to spend. Running a server doesn't fly for many people. (I love it, because I can tweak things--in fact, I plan on upgrading my home server in a few weeks.) Then again I just got a friend with a Duet to install Slimserver and he's now ripping his CDs to FLAC, wheras before they just used mysqueezebox streaming. I feel bad in some ways becuase Logitech hasn't gotten a penny of revenue from me--my SB2 just keeps working. If it died today I'd probably buy a Touch and keep on keeping on, but I would like to know the future of the Squeezebox platform, or at least hear from Logitech what their commitment to the platform is. -- mrfantasy --Mike http://last.fm/user/mrfantasy mrfantasy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1127 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Heuer;635735 Wrote: To be fair this is a contracting market especially with the direction Apple have mapped out for us with iCloud. Apple hasn't mapped anything out for *me* -- nor will they. I would love for the market to contract so that a small player (like Slim Devices) can make and market excellent products for a niche audience. -- bwaldron bwaldron's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
bwaldron;635809 Wrote: Apple hasn't mapped anything out for *me* -- nor will they. I would love for the market to contract so that a smart small player (like Slim Devices) can once again make and market excellent products (at a decent if not mass market price), for a smaller audience of enthusiasts. The mass market does have a way of dummying things down (before anyone yells at me, ..I have a transporter, but I do love my TOUCHes (and radios, booms)). Years ago, Lotus123 was much more sophisticated than MS Excel, but the corporate offices all moved to Excel. Harvard Graphics was much better than PowerPoint, but the suits liked MS. WordPerfect in its heyday was much better than WORD. But again, MS WORD won the day... -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
garym;635818 Wrote: The mass market does have a way of dummying things down (before anyone yells at me, ..I have a transporter, but I do love my TOUCHes (and radios, booms)). Years ago, Lotus123 was much more sophisticated than MS Excel, but the corporate offices all moved to Excel. Harvard Graphics was much better than PowerPoint, but the suits liked MS. WordPerfect in its heyday was much better than WORD. But again, MS WORD won the day... I agree, but I'm not sure how that sentiment applies in this space. Are you predicting the Apple approach will win for that reason? I don't think so, there's no need for a standard, actual or de facto, as with desktop software. I also find there's enough anti-Apple sentiment around (as I raise my hand) to provide more than enough opportunity for others. I disagree with those of you who are grousing. These products work well time after time, year after year. A great system at an affordable price. Like you, I wish there were more outward signs of robust product development, support for the remaining internal crew manning the bucket brigade, and a higher profile in the market. Even without those positive signs, we can use and enjoy our stuff for years to come as is. I also don't think this niche will be run off the road by media center/Popcorn Hour type things. From what I've seen, those things are REALLY too complicated for non-techie users who have a lot of other things they want to do with their free time. Those things are a solution in search of a problem. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Goodsounds;635820 Wrote: I agree, but I'm not sure how that sentiment applies in this space. Are you predicting the Apple approach will win for that reason? I don't think so, there's no need for a standard, actual or de facto, as with desktop software. I also find there's enough anti-Apple sentiment around (as I raise my hand) to provide more than enough opportunity for others. I disagree with those of you who are grousing. These products work well time after time, year after year. A great system at an affordable price. Like you, I wish there were more outward signs of robust product development, support for the remaining internal crew manning the bucket brigade, and a higher profile in the market. Even without those positive signs, we can use and enjoy our stuff for years to come as is. I also don't think this niche will be run off the road by media center/Popcorn Hour type things. From what I've seen, those things are REALLY too complicated for non-techie users who have a lot of other things they want to do with their free time. it didn't really apply directly to this issue...just rambling thoughts mostly related to the notion of having a smaller market of more devoted users. And I'm one of those folks around here that often dip into the it's all junk and doesn't work for anyone threads to report that I have nothing but rock solid performance across two different locations, running a Transporter, 2 booms, 3 touches, 2 radios, 2 controllers, and ipeng on ipad/iphones (with SB3 and RECEIVER retired in the closet). So yes, in my own personal case, this stuff simply works (well enough for my non-techie wife to simply get up in the morning pick up the controller from the cradle, select one of her favorite morning radio shows and hit play[the amp is auto turn on based on signal]) -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
garym;635821 Wrote: just rambling thoughts mostly related to the notion of having a smaller market of more devoted users. It's hard, maybe impossible, to continue in existence with a shrinking market of devoted users but a mass market price. As between a small group of fanatical and astute customers or a larger buyer group of mostly mass market ninnies, most companies would choose the second without much deliberation. It may be why some of the things some power users moan about don't get addressed by the company. WIth limited resources, they need to fix the things that matter most to the largest number of users and potential customers. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Sean stayed on for a year or two after the buyout, so it's only been about three years. Even then, I doubt he wants back in to this game. ;) I think the future video support for SBS is for the underwhelming Revue box. -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
w3wilkes;635363 Wrote: Come on, in October it will be 5 years since Logitech bought Slim. I doubt you could have a infinite non-compete clause that would hold up in any court. And has Logitech really taken the Slim Device line up anywhere beyond where Slim was when Logitech acquired it? I made my comment in response to the aspect of your comment I quoted that I disagreed with. It wasn't intended to address the specific situation with this company and its few key principals. In most acquisitions it's important to tie up key personnel one way or another for some period, so that they don't set up shop across the street and hire the employees. That was done in this case partially with a contingent earn-out provision that ran a few years. (The contract was publicly released because of Logitech's status as an SEC registrant). The transition having past, and with technology confidentiality and non-use provisions, it's likely the few concerned are now free to pursue other things that might be competitive but without use of the technology owned by Logitech. They may have already started their next adventure. The way to get around the non-compete problem when the permitted exceptions don't apply is to give such people employment contracts that pay an appropriate salary, require exclusivity (can't pursue other employment or compete with the company), and then tell them to stay home. Perfectly acceptable under the law. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
w3wilkes;635363 Wrote: And has Logitech really taken the Slim Device line up anywhere beyond where Slim was when Logitech acquired it? Well, for starters they are Fat Devices now, no longer slim clients in the SliMP3/SB/SB2/SB3/TP vein by a longshot. I would also say that the product line is much better known than it was. Did Logitech maximize the potential that was there? Imo absolutely not. Questionnable design decisions, on-going quality issues with both hardware and software, and the debacle of the Touch's delayed rollout definitely dented the brand. But you can't rightfully accuse Logitech of just sitting there continuing to pump out SB3s, er Classics. And I do like my Duets, Boom, Radio and Touch (all post-SD products, although the Duet was probably on the drawing board before the acquisition). -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
bluegaspode;635276 Wrote: ?..server seems to stream video to ??? in the future?They're looking for an icon for the LMS (Logitech Media Server) branch which will be a full fledged DLNA server. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
bluegaspode;635276 Wrote: Dean is still alive ! No small miracle if you recall the very scary sounding basement cleaning project he was going to embark upon after leaving SD/Logi -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
w3wilkes;635363 Wrote: Come on, in October it will be 5 years since Logitech bought Slim. I doubt you could have a infinite non-compete clause that would hold up in any court. And has Logitech really taken the Slim Device line up anywhere beyond where Slim was when Logitech acquired it? Now look, Logitech has definitely f'ed up some stuff (Radio alarms w/o SBS), but let's be real: Radio and Touch wouldn't have happened without Logitech, and probably not the Controller either. I love my SD-branded SB3, but I also love my three Radios too. Yes, they aren't slim devices any more, and it's pretty obvious that Logitech severely underestimated the SW effort required, but I think that 85% of a loaf is much better than none. Hold Logitech's feet to the fire, absolutely. Deny the many things they've gotten right, totally unfair. -- kmr kmr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10664 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Dean is still alive ! http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9637#c16 Guess we just need to post some comments in old bug-reports he is still watching :) And a mysterious comment from Ben as well afterwards. Times for speculation what this new icon mockup is all about for a prio 1 critical 7.6 bug ... -- bluegaspode Did you know: *'SqueezePlayer' (www.squeezeplayer.com)* will stream all your music to your Android device. Take your music everywhere! Remote Control + Streaming to your iPad? *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? = why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? = why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
w3wilkes;633388 Wrote: Also if the new company were established in the state of California Logitech would find it very difficult to enforce a non-compete clause of any type. Nah, it's not so simplistic. More relevant is where the company is conducting business and where the employee has lived and wishes to work. w3wilkes;633388 Wrote: California, under most circumstances, has invalidated non-compete clauses. In cases of key employee/founders, the case you are referring to indirectly is easily and legally circumvented to get the same result using a different form. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Come on, in October it will be 5 years since Logitech bought Slim. I doubt you could have a infinite non-compete clause that would hold up in any court. And has Logitech really taken the Slim Device line up anywhere beyond where Slim was when Logitech acquired it? -- w3wilkes 2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs w3wilkes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Agree Logitech has done SFA with Squeezebox. As a brand for Joe Public it is virtually irrelevant. Ask the same person about networked music they'll probably say Apple first then Sonos -- Paul_B Paul Squeeze Server 7.5 for Windows Home Server on Custom Intel Atom MoBo SB3 (x1), SBB (Squeezebox Boom) x1, SBR (Squeezebox Radio with battery) x1, SBT (Squeezebox Touch) RIP - dBpowerAMP R13 to FLAC ID3 Tags - MP3Tag v2.41 Paul_B's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3039 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
I think more accurately if you ask Joe Public about networked music you'll mostly be met with a blank stare. That might change as Apple's AirPlay gains to traction, but the average human being doesn't even know such a thing exists. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
andynormancx;633606 Wrote: I think more accurately if you ask Joe Public about networked music you'll mostly be met with a blank stare. That might change as Apple's AirPlay gains to traction, but the average human being doesn't even know such a thing exists. Sure they do; however, they are thinking more in terms of WAN (cloud) than LAN terms. -- bwaldron bwaldron's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
bwaldron;633623 Wrote: Sure they do; however, they are thinking more in terms of WAN (cloud) than LAN terms. Yeah, I was taking network music in the context we were talking to primarily mean playing back your own music on your LAN. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
This forum has 34,253 members, what would the cost be per member if we start a company that we all could be shareholders in and hire Sean and Dean... -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Mnyb;63 Wrote: This forum has 34,253 members, what would the cost be per member if we start a company that we all could be shareholders in and hire Sean and Dean... Gets my vote (and money) :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
You can count on my dollar too -- jeremy jeremy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
Anyone want to speculate on the length of the non-compete clause that was included in the SlimDevices-LogiTech purchase agreement? I'd love to see this happen, but I imagine we'll be a bunch of guys turning blue before it does. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sean and Dean - We Want You Back!
I would bet that any non-compete clause would have been time bound with a duration of no more than a year or two. Also if the new company were established in the state of California Logitech would find it very difficult to enforce a non-compete clause of any type. California, under most circumstances, has invalidated non-compete clauses. -- w3wilkes 2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs w3wilkes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87951 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
