Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Rudy Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:55:50 -0700 >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > I'm sorry, but that is illegal. You can use the USRP, but not the >> > GNURADIO firmware or software. >> > >> >> Um, no. > > Okay you got me. But answer me this: Why did we (the gnuradio experts) > select a license that does not provide a clear answer to Matt's question? Um. WTF? The preamble to the GPLv3 states in its preamble: "For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights." Commercial sale is an orthogonal issue to most of what the licensing is doing. You are welcome, even encouraged to make commercial use of the software. Please do so and enhance the diversity of usage we'll all gain. Commercial use/sale is clearly and explicitly *permitted*. However, like any other contract or license you have certain obligations. For the GPL (any version) your primary obligation is that if you redistribute the GPL licensed software or modified versions you must pass on the code (and the code for any modifications) along with the same rights (allowing further redistribution of those GPL covered components, allowing modification). You can charge any price you like, and you're only obligated to pass on the code to those you sold or gave the binaries to. This is not rocket science. The GPL (v3) is one of the most straight-forward and human readable non-trivial licenses or contracts that I've ever seen. Of course, it's also good advice to consult a knowledgeable attorney on even the most simplistic and common transactions of importance.. Real estate, software licensing for a product... no difference. I notice you also mention USRP. Please keep in mind that if you build a radio transmitting device using the USRP you will almost certainly be subject to FCC (in the US) regulation as well as radio licensing in whatever countries your product is sold in. I'm not aware of anyone obtaining type approval for a USRP based device, and doing so may by tricky. This is true even if your device operates solely in the "license free" ISM bands. ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Rudy Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Okay you got me. But answer me this: Why did we (the gnuradio experts) > select a license that does not provide a clear answer to Matt's question? > The answer *is* clear. It's not even very complicated. Nevertheless, for one's own protection, the validation of that claim should come from a licensed attorney. Just be very sure the attorney actually knows the answer. Frank -- Travelling by airplane in the US is nothing more than mass training of Americans to the requirements of the coming police state. The whole point is to make you learn to acquiesce without question, en masse, to completely absurd directives by dull functionaries wearing uniforms. -- Atrios ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Michael Ossmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ...An educated lawyer is going to be able to provide insights > into how a particular license or contract affects his or her client, > even after a single reading, that a layman would not notice... The complaint is aimed at a general tendency of the lawyers I've actually dealt with, repeatedly, in connection with dual-licensing issues involving code of my own already under GPL. That's around 3/4 dozen attorneys. Of that group, only one was candid enough to admit up-front to ignorance concerning the GPL. The remainder basically engaged in elaborate handwaving. (Full disclosure: some of them were on the *other* side of the negotiation, and not doing their clients any favors.) The problem isn't not knowing, the problem is dissembling about not knowing. The point is, caveat emptor. Frank -- Travelling by airplane in the US is nothing more than mass training of Americans to the requirements of the coming police state. The whole point is to make you learn to acquiesce without question, en masse, to completely absurd directives by dull functionaries wearing uniforms. -- Atrios ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
RE: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:55:50 -0700 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I'm sorry, but that is illegal. You can use the USRP, but not the GNURADIO > > firmware or software. > > > > Um, no. Okay you got me. But answer me this: Why did we (the gnuradio experts) select a license that does not provide a clear answer to Matt's question? Rudy _ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
[Discuss-gnuradio] NON-block reading for OS.read(tun_tap) in tunnel.py
I am trying to enable non-blocking reading for os.read(tun_fd, *) through open_tun_interface() in tunnel.py, did anybody do so before? Are there any potential problem for the whole tunnel.py code if I do so? Thanks Andrew ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
RE: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
>>Matt, >>I'm sorry, but that is illegal. You can use the USRP, but not the GNURADIO firmware or software. >>Rudy This is completely false. The GNU GPL license does allow you to package the software covered by the license and sell it so long as you make the software freely available to the buyer. "if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights." "Developers that use the GNU GPL protect your rights with two steps: (1) assert copyright on the software, and (2) offer you this License giving you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify it." However, you have to be very careful if you plan on using software covered by GPL commercially. Depending on how you use it, you could be forced to provide and other source code you develop that you package with the GPL software. Definitely seek legal advice. I am not a lawyer but I am heavily involved with IP issues. -Kenan Ezal P.S. Although this probably my first post to this list I have been following the discussions on this board for several years and I manage a DOD program using the USRP and GNURadio. ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
Rudy Moore wrote: >> We are planning to use USRP/GNURADIO core to produce some commercial >> products. Is this legal ? If not, how we can make it legal ? > > I'm sorry, but that is illegal. You can use the USRP, but not the GNURADIO > firmware or software. > > Rudy Um, no. GNU Radio is licensed under the terms of the GPLv3 or later. This license does not prevent commercial sale of products based on GNU Radio and/or the USRP. It does, however, have license terms which must be adhered to when doing so. Anyone in this situation is advised to obtain competent legal advice (i.e., not from this mailing list.) ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
I'm sorry? Please expand on why this is illegal? Wouldn't this be similar to say red hat linux or any other commercial linux distro? Please provide more info. Making a broad statement that something is illegal is quite a bold move. I certainly hope you can back the statement up and in fact I am looking forward to it. Charles Wyble --Original Message-- From: Rudy Moore Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org Sent: Jul 20, 2008 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially Matt-John wrote: > Hello All, > > We are planning to use USRP/GNURADIO core to produce some commercial > products. Is this legal ? If not, how we can make it legal ? > > Matt Matt, I'm sorry, but that is illegal. You can use the USRP, but not the GNURADIO firmware or software. Rudy _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mobile_072008 ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
Matt-John wrote: > Hello All, > > We are planning to use USRP/GNURADIO core to produce some commercial > products. Is this legal ? If not, how we can make it legal ? > > Matt Matt, I'm sorry, but that is illegal. You can use the USRP, but not the GNURADIO firmware or software. Rudy _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mobile_072008 ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Eric Blossom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You should seek professional legal advice and be sure that you > understand the terms of the license. The problem is finding a lawyer who truly, actually understands the GPL. They're both pretty busy these days. ;-) Having been through this drill, I can tell you that IP lawyers generally do *not* know squat about Open Source issues, and hence will tell you to stay away from the GPL in toto. Those who claim expertise are in fact telling you they'd be happy to take your money to spend the time learning what they're implying they already know. Frank -- Travelling by airplane in the US is nothing more than mass training of Americans to the requirements of the coming police state. The whole point is to make you learn to acquiesce without question, en masse, to completely absurd directives by dull functionaries wearing uniforms. -- Atrios ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] ADSL Modem
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:07:00AM -0700, Charles N Wyble wrote: > > Has anyone ever implemented ADSL using GNU Radio. It should be > > possible rite? > > H. Not sure why it would be possible. GNU Radio as far as I can tell > is focused on radio. :) Hm, DSL is basically OFDM over copper. So why shouldn't it work? It would be an interesting application for the OFDM code. Although I'm not quite sure what you'd experiment on unless you have a DSLAM lying around :) Bandwidth isn't necessarily huge, either, so you might even be able to able to use a USRP if you know how to connect analog stuff up (That's all voodoo to me...). Although I agree with Charles that I'm not sure what you'd want to do with it, unless you're simply looking forward to the challenge. Regards, -- Martin Braun Institut fuer Nachrichtentechnik Universitaet Karlsruhe http://www.int.uni-karlsruhe.de pgp846l8dTKHC.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] ADSL Modem
Swapna Raj wrote: > Hello, > > Has anyone ever implemented ADSL using GNU Radio. It should be > possible rite? H. Not sure why it would be possible. GNU Radio as far as I can tell is focused on radio. :) If you are interested in some open source DSL CPE please see http://ifctfvax.harhan.org/OpenSDSL/ > I would like to know about the hardware requirements. Hardware requirements for what? Implementing DSL? > Could someone kindly enlighten me about the hardware requirements. I think we need some more information from you about your project goals. I mean you can simply purchase a DSL modem PCI card from many online retailers. There are several that work in Linux for example. -- Charles N Wyble (818) 280-7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
As others have already said, but just to emphasize the point yet again, you really need to talk with a lawyer / firm qualified to understand your business' (potential or real) issues. IANAL and TINLA! To get more specific: Are you planning on using the USRP for wireless (RF) applications? That's a whole other issue above and beyond making sure you abide by the software licenses (which Eric & others have covered well). Using a USRP as a "test, measurement, and evaluation" (TME) device for RF transmissions is in general "not illegal" so long as FCC conditions are met (e.g. Part 15 and other Parts). BUT: The issues become more complicated for commercial (non-TME, end- user) products. That's where consulting a knowledgeable lawyer / firm would be your wisest course of action. Again, IANAL, TINLA ... but ... if you want to discuss further, I am happy to do so !off list! . - MLD ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Eric Blossom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 12:26:03AM -0700, Choolo wrote: >> >> Matt-John wrote: >> > >> > Hello All, >> > >> > We are planning to use USRP/GNURADIO core to produce some commercial >> > products. Is this legal ? If not, how we can make it legal ? We dont want >> > to start anything not legal, so the answer is important.Thanks. >> > >> > Matt >> >> I am also interested in knowing the answer to this question. >> >> Thanks. >> Cho Bonus > > IANAL. You'll want to talk to one. > > As long as you observe the terms that the code is licensed under, you > are free to do with the USRP and GNU Radio as you like. GNU Radio is > licensed under the GNU General Public License, v3 or later. The FPGA > portion of the USRP is licensed under the GNU General Public License, > v2 or later. > > The GPL v3 is here: > http://gnuradio.org/trac/browser/gnuradio/trunk/COPYING?format=raw > > > You should seek professional legal advice and be sure that you > understand the terms of the license. This book might help you understand the issues: http://www.amazon.com/Open-Source-Licensing-Software-Intellectual/dp/0131487876 Philip ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 12:26:03AM -0700, Choolo wrote: > > Matt-John wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > We are planning to use USRP/GNURADIO core to produce some commercial > > products. Is this legal ? If not, how we can make it legal ? We dont want > > to start anything not legal, so the answer is important.Thanks. > > > > Matt > > I am also interested in knowing the answer to this question. > > Thanks. > Cho Bonus IANAL. You'll want to talk to one. As long as you observe the terms that the code is licensed under, you are free to do with the USRP and GNU Radio as you like. GNU Radio is licensed under the GNU General Public License, v3 or later. The FPGA portion of the USRP is licensed under the GNU General Public License, v2 or later. The GPL v3 is here: http://gnuradio.org/trac/browser/gnuradio/trunk/COPYING?format=raw You should seek professional legal advice and be sure that you understand the terms of the license. Eric ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
[Discuss-gnuradio] Re: MP scheduler performance scaling
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 12:08 AM, Eric Blossom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've collected scaling data on several machines and it looks good! > > Executive summary: > > All your core are belong to us! > I are more than pleased. ;-) > > Eric > Bob ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Using USRP/GNURADIO Commercially
Matt-John wrote: > > Hello All, > > > We are planning to use USRP/GNURADIO core to produce some commercial > products. Is this legal ? If not, how we can make it legal ? We dont want > to start anything not legal, so the answer is important.Thanks. > > > > Matt > I am also interested in knowing the answer to this question. Thanks. Cho Bonus -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Using-USRP-GNURADIO-Commercially-tp18396747p18552058.html Sent from the GnuRadio mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
