[ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site - is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Seth, You also have to look at your selling point. The client did not make this decision on his/her own. Someone has influenced this person. Are you primarily a CF developer? This may be a deal breaker if you cannot deliver the product in the same amount of time as if it was written in CF. Just real quick: CF can be deployed using more than just Microsoft products, so legacy support and future hybrid network topologies is possible. Teddy On 12/7/06, Tepfer, Seth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site – is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserformhttp://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserformhttp://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - -- cf_payne / Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Simply google coldfusion vs. .net. You'll get a number of articles and such. I believe Forta's site has a list, but I can't seem to get there at the moment. mcg Teddy Payne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/07/2006 10:53 AM Please respond to discussion@acfug.org To discussion@acfug.org cc Subject Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Seth, You also have to look at your selling point. The client did not make this decision on his/her own. Someone has influenced this person. Are you primarily a CF developer? This may be a deal breaker if you cannot deliver the product in the same amount of time as if it was written in CF. Just real quick: CF can be deployed using more than just Microsoft products, so legacy support and future hybrid network topologies is possible. Teddy On 12/7/06, Tepfer, Seth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site ? is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - -- cf_payne / Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Hi Seth. I am first and foremost a business guy. I'm currently managing projects in both .Net and ColdFusion. Of course, both work great and can be used to create nearly any application. Unless there's a compelling reason to use .Net (The project is for Microsoft or there's some other religious commitment to .Net), I prefer ColdFusion. The only downside is the extra cost to license CF, but this is quickly made up through: - Faster Development - Lower Cost Development - In general, CF developers with comparable capabilities are less expensive than their .Net counterparts. I don't have any stats for you, but this is the bottom line: Faster, Cheaper, and Just as Good. Clarke _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tepfer, Seth Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:05 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site - is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
What about support? I know CF has a large community as well (AKA free support). What about BlueDragon (if you don't already have an Adobe CF server)? We had a customer say that they didn't want a calendar in our application because it would take to long to program. Um, cfcalendar anyone? mcg Clarke Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/07/2006 11:25 AM Please respond to discussion@acfug.org To discussion@acfug.org cc Subject RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Hi Seth. I am first and foremost a business guy. I'm currently managing projects in both .Net and ColdFusion. Of course, both work great and can be used to create nearly any application. Unless there's a compelling reason to use .Net (The project is for Microsoft or there's some other religious commitment to .Net), I prefer ColdFusion. The only downside is the extra cost to license CF, but this is quickly made up through: - Faster Development - Lower Cost Development - In general, CF developers with comparable capabilities are less expensive than their .Net counterparts. I don't have any stats for you, but this is the bottom line: Faster, Cheaper, and Just as Good. Clarke From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tepfer, Seth Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:05 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says ?I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let?s meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this? I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I?m just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn?t see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site ? is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
I've been dealing with our HR dept too much lately. I think it's rubbing off on me. Don't forget to sell your skills. Obviously, the client is interested in your work, even if it is done in CF. It might help to think of it this way: a baseball player could probably play football, but when it comes to winning the game, the baseball player plays baseball... and you want to win the game. Don't you? :) See? Too much HR. Additionally, CF8 will support native access to .net objects ( http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Scorpio:FAQ) As an aside and an example of my meager knowledge, could you write a CF app, package the CF war/ear/jar and run the app under .net? I know you can run CF under websphere and other app servers by deploying the war/ear files, but I don't know how or if .net could do the same thing. hth. mf -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Teddy Payne Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:54 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Seth, You also have to look at your selling point. The client did not make this decision on his/her own. Someone has influenced this person. Are you primarily a CF developer? This may be a deal breaker if you cannot deliver the product in the same amount of time as if it was written in CF. Just real quick: CF can be deployed using more than just Microsoft products, so legacy support and future hybrid network topologies is possible. Teddy On 12/7/06, Tepfer, Seth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site – is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - -- cf_payne / Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org nNryزXfjꮇj|q
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Not to mention, what can't CF plug into? Every major RDBMS is supported with either native drivers or the ability to use JDBC drivers that worked rather seamlessly. CF uses every major OS. CF uses every major web server as well. Teddy On 12/7/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about support? I know CF has a large community as well (AKA free support). What about BlueDragon (if you don't already have an Adobe CF server)? We had a customer say that they didn't want a calendar in our application because it would take to long to program. Um, cfcalendar anyone? mcg *Clarke Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/07/2006 11:25 AM Please respond to discussion@acfug.org To discussion@acfug.org cc Subject RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Hi Seth. I am first and foremost a business guy. I'm currently managing projects in both .Net and ColdFusion. Of course, both work great and can be used to create nearly any application. Unless there's a compelling reason to use .Net (The project is for Microsoft or there's some other religious commitment to .Net), I prefer ColdFusion. The only downside is the extra cost to license CF, but this is quickly made up through: - Faster Development - Lower Cost Development - In general, CF developers with comparable capabilities are less expensive than their .Net counterparts. I don't have any stats for you, but this is the bottom line: Faster, Cheaper, and Just as Good. Clarke -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Tepfer, Seth* Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:05 AM* To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:* [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site – is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ * **http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform*http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see *http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists*http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ *http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/*http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by *FusionLink* http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ * **http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform*http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see *http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists*http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ *http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/*http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by *FusionLink* http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ * **http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform*http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see *http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists*http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ *http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/*http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by *FusionLink* http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserformhttp://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - -- cf_payne / Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
My favorite thing about CF: BlueDragon Server (the free one). Works great for those sites that don’t generate enough revenue to justify the cost of ColdFusion MX. I use it on my own non-work related websites J (My salary doesn’t permit me a personal ColdFusion license for personal websites). Though it only does ODBC, ODBC is fine if your traffic levels are really low, almost no difference in performance between ODBC and JDBC drivers below a certain traffic limit. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teddy Payne Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:10 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Not to mention, what can't CF plug into? Every major RDBMS is supported with either native drivers or the ability to use JDBC drivers that worked rather seamlessly. CF uses every major OS. CF uses every major web server as well. Teddy On 12/7/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about support? I know CF has a large community as well (AKA free support). What about BlueDragon (if you don't already have an Adobe CF server)? We had a customer say that they didn't want a calendar in our application because it would take to long to program. Um, cfcalendar anyone? mcg Clarke Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/07/2006 11:25 AM Please respond to discussion@acfug.org To discussion@acfug.org cc Subject RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Hi Seth. I am first and foremost a business guy. I'm currently managing projects in both .Net and ColdFusion. Of course, both work great and can be used to create nearly any application. Unless there's a compelling reason to use .Net (The project is for Microsoft or there's some other religious commitment to .Net), I prefer ColdFusion. The only downside is the extra cost to license CF, but this is quickly made up through: - Faster Development - Lower Cost Development - In general, CF developers with comparable capabilities are less expensive than their .Net counterparts. I don't have any stats for you, but this is the bottom line: Faster, Cheaper, and Just as Good. Clarke From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Tepfer, Seth Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:05 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site – is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com/ - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Return Receipt Your RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points document: wasShawn Gorrell/ATL/FRS received by: at:12/07/2006 12:47:41 PM - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
I’m still confused about Blue Dragon pricing. It seems pretty much the same as CF. I was under the impression that the Free Blue dragon would not allow multiple connections and was for development. And what is the definition of a personal site by Blue Dragon terms? My main thought is that if Blue Dragon cost is comparible with CF then what is the advantage of using it? I was considering using Blue Dragon because one of my clients could not afford a cf license for their server but I assume since they have a site on it that makes money from banners ads that the free version does not quailify. However, the site is a non-profit org owned by the chamber of commerce in Negril, Jamaica. Am I able to use the free version for this. Back in Atlanta soon :-( Signed – A confused developer :-) Dusty _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin Haygood Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:33 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points My favorite thing about CF: BlueDragon Server (the free one). Works great for those sites that don’t generate enough revenue to justify the cost of ColdFusion MX. I use it on my own non-work related websites :-) (My salary doesn’t permit me a personal ColdFusion license for personal websites). Though it only does ODBC, ODBC is fine if your traffic levels are really low, almost no difference in performance between ODBC and JDBC drivers below a certain traffic limit. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teddy Payne Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:10 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Not to mention, what can't CF plug into? Every major RDBMS is supported with either native drivers or the ability to use JDBC drivers that worked rather seamlessly. CF uses every major OS. CF uses every major web server as well. Teddy On 12/7/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about support? I know CF has a large community as well (AKA free support). What about BlueDragon (if you don't already have an Adobe CF server)? We had a customer say that they didn't want a calendar in our application because it would take to long to program. Um, cfcalendar anyone? mcg Clarke Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/07/2006 11:25 AM Please respond to discussion@acfug.org To discussion@acfug.org cc Subject RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points Hi Seth. I am first and foremost a business guy. I'm currently managing projects in both .Net and ColdFusion. Of course, both work great and can be used to create nearly any application. Unless there's a compelling reason to use .Net (The project is for Microsoft or there's some other religious commitment to .Net), I prefer ColdFusion. The only downside is the extra cost to license CF, but this is quickly made up through: - Faster Development - Lower Cost Development - In general, CF developers with comparable capabilities are less expensive than their .Net counterparts. I don't have any stats for you, but this is the bottom line: Faster, Cheaper, and Just as Good. Clarke _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Tepfer, Seth Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:05 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points I have been in the preliminary stages with a client. I had set up an extensive project charter and a prototype website. Suddenly this client emails me last night and says I think I should be using .net instead of ColdFusion. Let's meet on Thursday afternoon and discuss this I am looking for some quick and dirty speaking points to say why CF over other languages (including .net). The obvious ones to me are * rapid development * ease of maintenance * less time in development/maintenance = lower bottom line * other? * stats to justify this? I do not want to start a flame war over .net versus CF. I'm just looking for speaking points (perhaps with some URLs for reference for some useful statistics). Any help would be appreciated. If this has been done previously and is archived in an FAQ, please point me in the right direction. I didn't see clear case justification at the Adobe/MM site – is it there and I just missed it? Thanks. Seth - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform/ For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Like Mark said, sell yourself. Having worked with both .NET and CF, you can do the same things with them. Sure there are pros and cons (.NET - better IDE, CF - better platform, community, etc.). Tools exist for both languages that make development fast, secure, ORM, MVC or whatever you want. The key differentiator is you, the developer. You can do things faster, cooler, cheaper because of your mastery of CF. - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points
Dusty, don't confuse the developer version of all BD editions with the specific BlueDragon Server (free) edition. Check out their web site for more, but there are 4 editions: Server, Server JX, J2EE and .NET. The last 3 are at cost but have free developer editions, which are limited to a single IP address (much like CF's server deployment). The difference from CF is that the base Server edition is, as has been said here, a real, fully functioning, non IP limited standalone CFML server (for both Windows and Linux). Now, when the Server edition first came out several years ago, it was free for any use. A couple years ago, the licensing was clarified to say that it was intended for non-commercial use. Yes, that's vague. The bottom line seems to be (and Josh can jump in here) that if your intention is to make money using your implementation of BD, then you're expected to pass that along to New Atlanta and not use the free edition but use Server JX or above instead (which at 895 is $300 less than CFMX Std). And for a single CPU implementation, the J2EE edition is less than half the price of CFMX Enterprise. Again, I'm just sharing information of clarification, as I would on any CFML-related topic. Indeed, as for why one would use BD, over CF, again I'll let others jump in here as I no longer represent the company, but I can tell you that there are indeed many advantages, in terms of features, bundling options, and more. Take a look at the CFML Enhancements Guide as a starting point. I had also done a blog entry on 40+ advantages: http://bluedragon.blog-city.com/what_are_some_bluedragon_advantages.htm Admittedly, Scorpio is catching up on some of these (as can be seen from some Scorpio public announcements), but then BD 7 is due to add things that will be unique. For all CFML developers, the two pushing each other is a good thing. And for companies needing to solve some problem now, then they'll choose the product that solves those problems now or into the foreseeable future. I can tell you that we made a LOT of sales of BD while I was there, and it was because people needed something it did that CF didn't. It's not appropriate to think of BD as the free CF server. That's just one of 4 editions. If you have a commercial use, you might instead consider Railo, or some of the other CFML implementations out there, if the sole goal is to get CFML for free. As for whether you can use if for your Chamber of Commerce client, I'd assert that this isn't the place to ask that question. Instead, there is a free BlueDragon discussion list (sign up at http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/self_help/archive_search/index .cfm) or you can email direct to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (but like more public email addresses, they get a lot of spam to wade through so be persistent if you don't get an answer). /Charlie http://www.carehart.org/blog/ _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dusty Hale Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 1:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: Client talking points I'm still confused about Blue Dragon pricing. It seems pretty much the same as CF. I was under the impression that the Free Blue dragon would not allow multiple connections and was for development. And what is the definition of a personal site by Blue Dragon terms? My main thought is that if Blue Dragon cost is comparible with CF then what is the advantage of using it? I was considering using Blue Dragon because one of my clients could not afford a cf license for their server but I assume since they have a site on it that makes money from banners ads that the free version does not quailify. However, the site is a non-profit org owned by the chamber of commerce in Negril, Jamaica. Am I able to use the free version for this. Back in Atlanta soon :-( Signed - A confused developer :-) Dusty - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
