Re: FSFE in Outreachy?
and genders are equals, and I will treat them as equals without any prejudice. If that is not enough, I do not know what is. Having said that, I will not change your mind or anybody else's. Never in my time on the internet have I ever encountered someone's mind being changed on this issue in an internet debate. I would be more than happy to speak to you in person over VOIP, but I have no will to carry on this debate on a mailing list when I know its outcome: Exactly nothing. I hope you considered some of the debate fruitful. And I hope you'll agree with me, to agree to disagree. To do anything else seems a folly. Mi vin bone deziras, malsamideano, kaj bonan belan versperon al vi. Yours sincerely, -- Carmen Bianca Bakker Technical Intern Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: FSFE in Outreachy?
Hello, On Saturday, 2 September 2017 09:51:36 CEST Nikos Roussos wrote: > I don't see any discrimination here, and in general in any initiative > that tries to help minorities. It is discrimination by its very definition, though. That is: making a distinction between groups of people. This program most definitely does that. It distinguishes between a population it identifies as disadvantaged minorities (cis/trans women, ethnic minorities in the US), and a population it identifies as advantaged members of the majority group (everybody else), and treats those populations differently. One population is permitted an internship, and the other is not. That is discrimination. What you probably mean, however, is that this is acceptable discrimination to you. I don't think like that. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I like to stay as consistent as I can in my beliefs/opinions: I loathe unjust discrimination. Orwell put it well in Animal Farm. > Treating these efforts as > discrimination means that we ignore the fact that we live in a world > where not all people have the same opportunities and that people of > certain gender or color are privileged. I personally find this brush a little too broad. Gender and ethnicity aren't excellent indicators of levels of privilege. Take an orphan white boy, or a black girl born/adopted into a rich family, and this all falls apart. You are right, of course, that _on average_ black people and women get the shorter end of the stick in many cases. And that ought to get fixed as soon as possible. But that, to me, is not justification for collectivist discrimination. I also disagree that treating (positive/affirmative/reverse) discrimination as discrimination per se means ignoring the state of the world. You can be _for_ equality, but _against_ certain methods that might lead to equality. And I am wholly against this type of discrimination. I very much prefer alternative methods. I really admire a lot of the LGBT community, for instance, in how they approached their struggle for equality. Their focus on love is exemplary, and the inclusion of gay characters/people in popular media -- often as equals -- has done more for them than anything else ever could. And none of that necessitated active discrimination. > There is a well known comic strip that illustrates that fairly well. > http://comediscovervcc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/equity-graphic.j > pg I know this graphic. I choose to interpret it as class inequality, not gender/ethnic inequality. Low privilege is not by any means inherent to your gender or ethnicity. It is a possible indicator at best, but never absolutely inherent. Low privilege is, however, inherent to low income. In which case, I agree that the lower classes require more assistance than the higher echelons -- at the cost of those higher echelons. To assume that minorities per se require assistance, is to me the soft bigotry of low expectations, which I eschew immensely. But all that aside, I really don't want to cause a huge kerfuffle. I'm here for free software, and I've said my bit on this tangent :-) I respect your opinion, I just disagree. Yours sincerely, -- Carmen Bianca Bakker Technical Intern Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: FSFE in Outreachy?
Re-posting the below, which ended up on the wrong mailing list: Hi, I don't know if it's okay if I add my five cents (adjusted for inflation), but I'm reasonably well-read on this and adjacent topics, as well as included in the list of minorities that would be sponsored under the Outreachy program. But I am unequivocally against such programs, on the simple grounds that it tries to combat discrimination _through_ discrimination, which is about as silly to me as trying to achieve world peace through war. It generates envy/antipathy in individuals from groups that are excluded from the given list of minorities, and it generates imposter syndrome in those who are, because they might only be hired/accepted because of their status as minority, rather than excelling in their skillset. I would be very against getting involved in this program, though I know that the FSFE currently practises positive discrmination selection standards for its internship program: > We want more women to be involved in Free Software. That's why we will > give preference to applications from suitably qualified female > candidates. from https://fsfe.org/contribute/internship.en.html I'd personally be a little bit disappointed if this carried any significance in my being selected as intern, because I do believe that I can hold my own with my unique skillset. On Thursday, 31 August 2017 13:43:59 CEST Daniel Pocock wrote: > Increasing diversity could also help avoid situations like this in > future. I don't know if there is any evidence to suggest this. Where there are humans, things sometimes go awry. Having a more ethnically/sexually diverse cast of humans doesn't change that. Be that as it may, I don't aim to change any hearts or minds. I just wanted to add my couple of cents. Yours sincerely, -- Carmen Bianca Bakker Technical Intern Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: The 2% discussion - "Free Software" or "Open Source Software"
Adonay Felipe Nogueira schreef op do 16-11-2017 om 11:25 [-0200]: > Finally, Stallman also states ([1]) that supporters/followers/proponents > --- and projects supporting/following --- free/libre software > *philosophy* should avoid both "FOSS" (because of the misleading "free" > part which reminds people of "gratis") and "FLOSS" (because it's too > neutral). Important to note is that he does prefer "FLOSS" for neutrality[2]: > Thus, if you want to be neutral between free software and open source, > and clear about them, the way to achieve that is to say “FLOSS,” not > “FOSS.” > > We in the free software movement don't use either of these terms, > because we don't want to be neutral on the political question. We > stand for freedom, and we show it every time—by saying “free” and > “libre”— or “free (libre)”. -- Carmen Bianca Bakker Technical Intern Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. [2]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: Introduction to software developer profession for teens
Hi Vitaly, Vitaly Repin schreef op ma 20-11-2017 om 15:53 [+0200]: > This Sunday I will have an 1 hour workshop with the teens (age 14-18) > with the purpose to explain them what software developer profession is > about. That's quite short for a workshop. What will they be doing, and how many of them will attend? > I found this opportunity as a very interesting but also challenging. I > plan to tell them also about FOSS and possibilities to study > programming by participating in different FOSS projects. The angle of using Free Software as a self-study tool is good :) I am not quite sure how you could fit a proper explanation of Free Software into that hour and also use it to teach them about software engineering, though. I feel like it might be a disservice to either topic if one impeded too much on the time of the other. Perhaps use the hour primarily to teach about software engineering, and use any extra time with individual students to bring up the ethics involved in software? Also, pretty please make sure to mention this at least: - Liking video games is NOT a valid reason to study software engineering, and being a video game developer is a stressful, oversaturated, underpaid job. - You do not need to be good at maths to be a decent software engineer. Being able to communicate (write) clearly and unambiguously is a much better asset for a software engineer, as this is exactly what coding is. If you can write an accurate tutorial that describes how to boil an egg that includes all the steps required (even the often-overlooked ones!) in such a way that anybody can understand it effortlessly, and can follow those steps without having to do any additional thinking of their own, then you possess THE vital skill for programming. The first should hopefully scare off gamers who would have a miserable time doing software engineering. The second should hopefully invite people who aren't maths geniuses, but who are communicatively very strong. I hope this was helpful. Thank you for introducing the wonderful world of hacking to teens! Yours, a software engineering student -- Carmen Bianca Bakker Technical Intern Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: [GA] who is a member?
Je 2018-02-05 14:59:23, Mat Witts <ad...@yuj.it> skribis: > There are > many ways to do that from elections, polls, forums, working groups and > all the rest of it but if either one is missing - 1) clear policy and > 2) evidence of freely conferred deference to them from members (and it > seems both appear to be weak in some instances) then no good will > result and the FSFE will be on course for an arbitrary accumulation of > capital causing all the overdetermined social problems and moral > hazards that unaccountable accumulations of capital I think have > proved universally to facilitate both in software development and > anywhere where technical knowledge is distributed through networks > framed by the monocultural havoc wrought by capital rather than the > sympathetic wonder of diverse human collectives. I am sorry. This is one sentence? Tiuokaze oni egale povus skribi esperante, ĉar laŭ mi tiom homoj kapablas legi ĉi tiun tekston kiel kapablas legi la antaŭan. Tamen estas pli facile lerni legi ĉi tiun ol tiu. Ĉefe mi uzas nur simplajn vortojn, kiu faciligas kaj plaĉigas legadon, komprenadon kaj transdonadon de ideoj, sed kiam mi bezonas malfacilajn vortojn por eksprimi malsimplajn konceptojn, mi uzas tiujn maldense kaj sporade. Parenteze, mi deziras al vi bonan ŝancon kun guglo tradukilo. If you know what I'm saying. Amike, -- Carmen Bianca Bakker en eo nl signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?
Je 2018-01-18 10:30:47, Mat Witts <ad...@yuj.it> skribis: > This type of complaint in the context of software is that an > individuals or corporate's right to develop proprietary software is > being 'drowned out' or 'silenced' by all this talk of software > freedom. > > The argument is advanced by showing how exposure to free software > either by blocking non-free, not providing non-free alternatives > actually goes against the free exercise of computers users freedom to > use proprietary software through denigrating it either from technical, > moral, political, social, economic or philosophical perspectives. > > It seems timely to issue a reminder that all computer users must be > allowed to opt out of Free Software too, to avoid the charge of > contradiction or hypocrisy? > > Making Free Software mandatory for all and to victimize users who > refuse to participate in Free Software is not only contradictory but > will only marginalize users we are trying to educate. I don't find this argument very strong at all. What about a man's rights to hold slaves? What about a man's rights to sell oneself into slavery? I am aware that the comparison isn't 100% apt, but it relies on the same core argument: People having the right to deny others rights and freedoms, and people having the right to waive their rights and freedoms. If you start treating rights and freedoms as something that can be negotiated individually, the "powerful" will misuse this to transfer the rights of the "weak" over to them. I'm a staunch individualist, but the individual right to opt out of freedom is not one that I can comprehend or support. Yours, -- Carmen Bianca Bakker en eo nl signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: Free Software in Munich - FSFE thanks cabaret artist Christine Prayon
This article arrived in my mailbox this morning. It's a lovely read! Thank you to the author, and to Christine Prayon. Je mer, 2019-05-15 je 06:50 +, pr...@fsfe.org skribis: > = Free Software in Munich - FSFE thanks cabaret artist Christine Prayon = > > [ Read online: https://fsfe.org/news/2019/news-20190515-02.en.html ] > > Yesterday, political satirist Christine Prayon was awarded the 10,000 > Euro Dieter Hildebrandt Prize of the City of Munich for demanding > political or decidedly socio-critical political satire. Prayon is > donating the prize money to the Free Software Foundation Europe. > > The jury states [1], among other things, that the award recipient Prayon > "[...] does not simply accuse - she unmasks, and we are her witnesses". > Prayon herself used her thank-you speech to put the finger on one of > Munich's sore spots: Prayon describes the former genius, progressive > process of making Munich independent of the providers of proprietary > software and letting the complete administration run on a free system. > Prayon then criticised the switch back to proprietary systems. > > The migration of workstations back to proprietary software will cost > Munich almost 50 million Euros over the next six years. A further 37 > million Euros will have to be invested in implementation projects. The > Free Software Foundation Europe already criticised the migration-project > in the past. The migration will not solve existing organisational IT > problems in the day-to-day administrative business. At the same time new > dependencies on manufacturers of proprietary software will arise and > license fees will be paid to the proprietary manufacturers instead of > using these funds in tax payers' best interest for the further > development of the software and the cooperation with other > administrations. The systems become less transparent and no longer > comprehensible for citizens. Further information on the migration plans > of the City of Munich can be found here [2]. > > Munich is thus turning against the trend: in other administrations, Free > Software is being used with overwhelming success. Since the French > government decided to start using more Free Software back in 2012, > between 0.6% and 5.4% more companies using Free Software have been > created in France every year; between 6.6% and 14% more people find > employment in the IT sector every year. In Barcelona, 70% of the budget > for the development of new software is used to create Free Software. > Contracts have so far been awarded to 3,000 companies, 60% of them SMEs, > mostly from the region. In collaborative projects, more and more cities > are working on common software solutions and jointly develop them, > saving costs and sharing risks. > > The Free Software Foundation Europe has launched the campaign "Public > Money? Public Code!" to convince other administrations to switch to Free > Software and support them in their migration. As part of the campaign, > we published the specialist publication "Public Money Public Code - > Modernising Public Infrastructure with Free Software". The brochure aims > to answer questions from decision-makers about the benefits of using and > developing Free Software for the public administration. > > More information about the campaign and its supporters can be found on > our campaign website at publiccode.eu [3], and the brochure can be found > here [4]. > > The Free Software Foundation Europe would like to take this opportunity > to thank Christine Prayon for her commitment to Free Software and her > generous donation. > > 1: > https://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Kulturreferat/Kulturfoerderung/Preise/Dieter-Hildebrandt-Preis/2019.html > 2: https://fsfe.org/news/2019/news-20190515-01.html > 3: https://publiccode.eu/ > 4: https://fsfe.org/campaigns/publiccode/brochure > > == About the Free Software Foundation Europe == > > Free Software Foundation Europe is a charity that empowers users to > control technology. Software is deeply involved in all aspects of our > lives; and it is important that this technology empowers rather than > restricts us. Free Software gives everybody the rights to use, > understand, adapt and share software. These rights help support other > fundamental freedoms like freedom of speech, press and privacy. > > The FSFE helps individuals and organisations to understand how Free > Software contributes to freedom, transparency, and self-determination. > It enhances users' rights by abolishing barriers to Free Software > adoption, encourage people to use and develop Free Software, and > provide resources to enable everyone to further promote Free Software > in Europe. > > http://fsfe.org > ___ > Press-release mailing list > press-rele...@lists.fsfe.org > https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/press-release > > This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All
Re: Request for Clarifications
Hi Paul, Je ven, 2019-05-03 je 23:30 +0200, Paul Schaub skribis: > For a start, are the allegations of "censorship" regarding the blog and > newsletters written by Daniel Pocock true? I dislike the word > censorship, as I can see valid reasons for moderation. Still, is it > true, that Pococks work in the FSFE is being "moderated" and if so, > based on what reasons? I believe the chief complaint is that the FSFE was restructured such that there are no longer elections for a fellowship representative. Because Daniel was the representative at the time this decision was made, he felt that this was an act of censorship. The rationale for the change was not censorship. It can be found here: https://fsfe.org/news/2018/news-20180526-01.en.html The gist of it is: - Elections pit contributors against each other, which is not in the spirit of collaboration. - There are already other ways to become a GA member. - And, if you ask me, the idea of a "fellowship representative" is a little bit silly---surely everyone on the GA aims to represent the interests of the Free Software community. Whatever the case, Daniel strongly disagreed. I don't know the full details of the kerfuffle, but Daniel started a campaign against the FSFE over this incident, and it hasn't been pretty. Every time we think it's resolved, something like this happens again. Daniel was barred from the Debian project over similar behaviour. > How much moderation is happening on at the FSFE lists? We have a Code of Conduct[1], but it doesn't see much enforcement to the best of my knowledge, because most people are excellent people :-) I hope that clears some confusion. I can't give a more detailed explanation without either sounding biased or filling in details I don't actually know. With kindness, Carmen [1]: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
Re: Unsubscription amusement
Je lun, 2019-05-06 je 09:00 +0100, Paul Sutton skribis: > > On 06/05/2019 00:00, Paul Boddie wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I see that some people are still having fun with the Mailman interface > > trying > > to unsubscribe people from this list, specifically 91.64.208.89 or > > ip5b40d059.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de as they are also known. > > > > Perhaps some actual, reasoned discussion about the challenges raised by > > recent > > events related to the FSFE might be preferable to rather clumsy attempts to > > play with people's mailing list subscriptions. > > > > Paul > I think it is trying to do that to me, I have already removed myself > from the unofficial fellowship list. Now I am getting unauthorized > attempts to remove me from the fsfe.org list > > What exactly is going on here please. This is reflecting very very badly > on the fsfe in general. Daniel Pocock obtained a list of all subscribers to the discussion mailing list, and (presumably) ran a script that sends an unsubscribe request for all subscribers. There isn't a lot that the FSFE can really do here, other than the legal venues that are already being pursued. Kindly, Carmen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
Re: REUSE 3.0 released: tutorial, FAQ, and helper tool
Je mer, 2019-08-07 je 16:01 +0200, Paul Boddie skribis: > On Wednesday 7. August 2019 11.34.03 Max Mehl wrote: > > For some more background information, please find the full announcement > > here: > > > > https://fsfe.org/news/2019/news-20190807-01.html > > > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback! Please consider making your > > software projects REUSE compliant, and let us know how it worked. > > Sorry not to have looked at more than the FAQ and some of the usage > documents, > but does the tool support generation of Debian DEP-5 copyright files? Also, > noting that the pip tool is suggested as a way of installing the software, > are > there plans for the tool to be packaged in Debian? The tool currently outputs a template of a Debian DEP-5 file when you do `reuse init`. But the purpose of that file for REUSE is to cover the files that are not covered by comment headers. e.g., instead of adding headers to all files in `img/`, you add a paragraph in `.reuse/dep5` that globs all files in `img/` under a certain license. If you want to output a Debian DEP-5 file for use in Debian packaging, this should be incredibly easy. `reuse spdx` outputs an (XML) SPDX file, which details the copyright and license of each individual file. You'd then only need to write a small conversion tool to generate the DEP-5 file. Alternatively, it would be really easy to support such a generator out of the box within the tool itself. It's not a priority, but I'll happily take PRs. There is no current plan to package for Debian, though I have desired to get this done at some point. The problem is that I do not understand Debian packaging in the slightest. I do maintain the Fedora package, but it's a little out-of-date because of a missing dependency in the 0.4.X release. Kindly, Carmen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
Re: suggestions/request for fsfe
Je mer, 2020-01-01 je 13:15 +0100, V F skribis: > After Googleing a bit I found there are few pi-hole open to everyone to use. > https://pi-dns.com > https://public-pihole.com/ > > I am not an expert in network (actually a zoologist) things but I was > wondering why not FSFE build a open pihole server? > > Instead of trusting some people on the internet (there are warnings > about using someones dns server???) FSFE is a trustable place. I like the idea, but I'm not sure the FSFE actually has the resources to maintain more tech resources than it currently does. The problem with setting up such a server is that it's a commitment into the future. You can't take it down after a few years, because it will break people's workflows. And if it turns out that the server becomes more popular than anticipated, then it's even more problematic. How do you maintain a popular server when most of the people working for the FSFE aren't server administrators? On a grander scale, I think a better solution would be that relying on a server is not necessary. Imagine instead that a distribution might include a `spyware-dns-hosts` package that modifies `/etc/hosts` with the same kind of blacklist that pi-hole uses. Or maybe browsers could ship with much stronger privacy protection. I believe that Firefox is flirting with the idea of blocking more ads by default, but I'm not extremely well-read on that topic. Kindly, Carmen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
