Re: Admin accessibility

[James Bennett]

Taking this as a question posed under the DEP 10 voting process of whether
or not to accept DEP 11:

I vote +1.

I think the basic idea is good; there are a couple things worth clarifying,
mostly in terms of oversight, but that can be addressed in later edits.

And by "oversight" I mean a clear statement of how members of the team are
to be chosen, who will do the choosing, and whether the ultimate
responsibility lies with the Django Technical Board or with the DSF Board
of Directors. Since the scope of the DEP includes things that the Technical
Board lacks authority over, it may need to be the DSF Board or a mix of
both; also, the DSF Board would need to formally accept that responsibility.


On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 4:01 AM Carlton Gibson 
wrote:

> Hello all.
>
> Can I ask the Technical Board for Review and Resolution
> 
> on DEP 11 please?
>
> https://github.com/django/deps/pull/69/
>
> (Please let me know if I've done that wrong.)
>
> Kind regards,
> Carlton
>
> On Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 10:43:03 UTC+2 Carlton Gibson wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> The DEP for creating an accessibility team is looking good.
>> https://github.com/django/deps/pull/69
>>
>> I'm going to ask for formal consideration shortly.
>> If you have an interest/a moment, over the weekend say, to give it a
>> glance before that, then any comments will be gratefully received I'm sure.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Carlton
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 at 00:17:35 UTC+2 Thibaud Colas wrote:
>>
>>> I’d love to! But worth bearing in mind that I haven’t done any Django
>>> contributions before.
>>>
>>> I decided to end my talk with a call for feedback on your DEP – this
>>> feels like the ideal call to action to end on.
>>>
>>> On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 18:00:03 UTC+1 t...@carrick.eu wrote:
>>>
 Carlton, I think that would be useful, thanks.

 Thibaud, shall I add you to the implementation team? It seems like
 you're doing more work on this than I am lately. I think we could still use
 one or perhaps two more people, but I think it's a good start.

 On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 at 16:44, Carlton Gibson 
 wrote:

> Hi All.
>
> Thanks for this. I'd be happy to play *Shepherd *if you need someone
> to put their hand up.
> I think that means I need to nag about getting it done. So... 
>
> Who's going to be on the team to do the first review, and then
> subsequent work? Answer that and you have the Implementation Team.
> I like that you've thought about how the team can refresh periodically
> — I don't suppose the burden will be too great but folks tend to cycle-out
> naturally, so good to plan for that.
> Thibaud: Asking for hands in your talk seems sensible.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Carlton
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 6 September 2020 at 00:45:36 UTC+2 Thibaud Colas wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Now that the DEP PR has been submitted I was wondering what the next
>> steps would be. According to the documented DEP process I found, it’s at
>> the "forming the team"
>> 
>> stage? How do you go about creating an *Implementation Team* and
>> finding a *Shepherd*?
>>
>> The main reason I ask is that I’ll be giving a talk about
>> accessibility at DjangoCon EU in a couple of weeks, and I thought it 
>> would
>> be a good occasion to raise awareness of the issues with the Django 
>> admin,
>> and mention this DEP. But I want to make sure I provide accurate
>> information.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Thibaud
>>
>> On Tuesday, 14 July 2020 at 09:37:01 UTC+1 Thibaud Colas wrote:
>>
>>>  it’s wonderful to see this happening! Re-reading through the
>>> whole thing, as Tobias mentioned I also find it very easy to read, and
>>> makes a good case.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 14 July 2020 at 09:24:15 UTC+1 t...@carrick.eu wrote:
>>>
 I've added a PR to the DEPs repo to hopefully get some eyes on it:
 https://github.com/django/deps/pull/69

 Thibaud, I think whatever you have the time and motivation for
 sounds good, all of those things are useful. If you're not sure about 
 all
 the admin features, I think that's pretty normal. One project I've had 
 on
 my mind for a while now is to build a simple django site that is
 essentially just there to use every feature of the admin, so I might 
 bump
 that up the priority list, though it's somewhat daunting.

 Cheers,
 Tom

 On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 at 01:15, Thibaud Colas 
 wrote:

> Update for the proof of concept CI tests from my side – thank you

Re: Improved labels for M2M relations

[Adam Johnson]

I don't think we can use just "Relation to" because M2M relationships are
two-way by default. Whilst a ManyToManyField can be declared on one model,
it adds a reverse field on the other model. We'd have to show both sides of
the relation e.g. "Relation between  and ".

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 08:56, Julian Klotz  wrote:

> … one last thought:
>
> The verbose name could be: “Media Item-Piece relation”
> The string presentation could be: “Relation to  to-instance>”, e.g. “Relation to Piece xyz”
>
> Together:
> *Media Item-Piece relation: Relation to Piece xyz (ID: 11773)*
>
>
> Julian Klotz schrieb am Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2020 um 09:30:59 UTC+1:
>
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> thanks for picking this up so quickly.
>> I considered setting custom “through” models to set verbose name and
>> __str__, but I currently can’t “afford” changing all m2m fields throught
>> the application.
>>
>> Here’s the feedback I got concerning the usability issues (e.g. for
>> MediaItem_pieces_relation object (11773))
>>
>>- Some people thought “11773” was the number of objects to be
>>deleted, even though the UI clearly states something else – it isn’t
>>obvious for some people that relations have their own IDs
>>- People asked where they could change the (then-deleted) relation to
>>a different object
>>
>>
>>
>> *It can also help with debugging as the label appears in the default
>> str/repr.*
>> Thanks for giving me that hint. It’s the __str__ method of models.Model.
>> Changing the default string presentation may be dangerous and also too
>> generic. It would make sense to define a custom to-string method in
>> `create_many_to_many_intermediary_model` (fields/related.py)*.*
>> Instead of showing *MediaItem_pieces_relation object (11773),* something
>> like “Media Item-Piece relation, ID: 11773) would be good*; *moreover,
>> it may be a good idea to show the “from” model’s edit link to point people
>> to the place where they can change this relation.
>>
>> *My main question is, does this not trigger migrations on user projects?*
>> Good point. I just checked – interestingly, neither changing the verbose
>> name nor the __str__ method triggers new migrations 拾
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>> Julian
>>
>> Adam Johnson schrieb am Montag, 26. Oktober 2020 um 19:56:15 UTC+1:
>>
>>> Hi Julian
>>>
>>> It should be noted that you can improve the display today by creating
>>> explicit through models. However this is more longwinded.
>>>
>>> This change does look like a neat usability improvement to me. It can
>>> also help with debugging as the label appears in the default str/repr. My
>>> main question is, does this not trigger migrations on user projects?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 16:28, Julian Klotz 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Hey there,

 here’s a little topic that impacts the usability of Django admin’s
 delete views.

 When deleting an object using django admin, you get a nice summary of
 all deleted objects.
 I really like the overview, but the labels used to describe m2m
 relations that will be deleted aren't user-friendly at all:

 […]

- MediaItem-subseries-relation: MediaItem_sub_series_relation
object (11482)
- MediaItem-piece-relation: MediaItem_pieces_relation object (11773)

 So I’d like to improve the labels a bit, using the from and to model’s
 verbose names. This can be easily accomplished by changing
 `create_many_to_many_intermediary_model` in fields/related.py.

 To be honest, I don’t know how to update the tests for something rooted
 deeply in Django’s core.Is anyone who is more competent than me interested
 in fixing this? It would greatly improve the “delete confirmation“ views.

 Here’s what I’ve got so for; it only fixes the model’s verbose name,
 not its string presentation.

 Best regards
 Julian


 […]
 to = make_model_tuple(to_model)[1]
 from_ = klass._meta.model_name

 if isinstance(to_model, str):
 to_label = to
 to_label_plural = to
 else:
 to_label = to_model._meta.verbose_name
 to_label_plural = to_model._meta.verbose_name_plural

 from_label = klass._meta.verbose_name
 from_label_plural = klass._meta.verbose_name_plural

 if to == from_:
 to = 'to_%s' % to
 from_ = 'from_%s' % from_

 meta = type('Meta', (), {
 'db_table': field._get_m2m_db_table(klass._meta),
 'auto_created': klass,
 'app_label': klass._meta.app_label,
 'db_tablespace': klass._meta.db_tablespace,
 'unique_together': (from_, to),
 'verbose_name': _('%(from)s-%(to)s relationship') % {'from':
 from_label, 'to': to_label},
 'verbose_name_plural': _('%(from)s-%(to)s relationships') %
 {'from': from_label_plural, 'to': 

Re: French translation - Mispelling

[hcharpent...@gmail.com]

Thank you so much both of you!
I would rather directly contact you, Claude.

I will also join the team and do what I can to help thereafter :)
On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 1:11:10 PM UTC+1 Claude Paroz wrote:

> Le vendredi 30 octobre 2020 à 23:14:07 UTC+1, hcharpent...@gmail.com a 
> écrit :
>
>> I saw a spelling error in a menu, and I thought I could contact some 
>> french translators team or something? (It would be much easier to me to 
>> explain it in French).
>>
>  
> Adam's suggestion is good, but you can also directly contact me.
>
> Claude (@2xlibre.net)
>

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Django bugfix releases issued: 3.1.3, 3.0.11, and 2.2.17

[Carlton Gibson]

Details are available on the Django project weblog:

https://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2020/nov/02/bugfix-releases/ 


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