Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Horst Gutmann]

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Jannis Leidel  wrote:

>
> On 24.05.2013, at 19:28, Trey Hunner  wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, Jannis Leidel wrote:
> > So what I propose to fix this is simple:
> >
> > - combine the localflavor packages into one Python package again, call
> it django-localflavor
> > - give all the individual country maintainers also access to that package
> > - have a central documentation, e.g. django-localflavor.readthedocs.org
> > - update the Django docs to point to that package
> > - ask the maintainers of the 7 already released packages to point to the
> newly created django-localflavor
> >
> > I am also for this.
>
> Great to hear, as you're one of the people that successfully released one
> of the standalone apps to PyPI.
>
> > However, if the django-localflavor merge doesn't occur, at a minimum the
> django-localflavor-* ecosystem needs:
> >
> > - A procedure for requesting access to maintain a django-localflavor-*
> variant
> > - A project for maintaining suggestions and guidelines for
> django-localflavor maintainers (e.g. use PyPI, add South rules, use tox)
> > - Relevant links to procedures and guidelines in every
> django-localflavor-* README file
> >
> > I volunteer help merge changes for the django-localflavor-us variant if
> help is needed.
>

Same, of course, from me for localflavor-at. If there is anything I can do
to help, please let me know :-)

Cheers,
Horst


>
> Thanks, much appreciated, I've started the work on merging the apps again,
> and hope to have a ready version the coming week.
>
> Jannis
>
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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Jannis Leidel]

On 24.05.2013, at 19:28, Trey Hunner  wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, Jannis Leidel wrote:
> So what I propose to fix this is simple: 
> 
> - combine the localflavor packages into one Python package again, call it 
> django-localflavor 
> - give all the individual country maintainers also access to that package 
> - have a central documentation, e.g. django-localflavor.readthedocs.org 
> - update the Django docs to point to that package 
> - ask the maintainers of the 7 already released packages to point to the 
> newly created django-localflavor 
> 
> I am also for this.

Great to hear, as you're one of the people that successfully released one of 
the standalone apps to PyPI.

> However, if the django-localflavor merge doesn't occur, at a minimum the 
> django-localflavor-* ecosystem needs:
> 
> - A procedure for requesting access to maintain a django-localflavor-* variant
> - A project for maintaining suggestions and guidelines for django-localflavor 
> maintainers (e.g. use PyPI, add South rules, use tox)
> - Relevant links to procedures and guidelines in every django-localflavor-* 
> README file
> 
> I volunteer help merge changes for the django-localflavor-us variant if help 
> is needed.

Thanks, much appreciated, I've started the work on merging the apps again, and 
hope to have a ready version the coming week.

Jannis

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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Trey Hunner]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, Jannis Leidel wrote:

> So what I propose to fix this is simple: 
>
> - combine the localflavor packages into one Python package again, call it 
> django-localflavor 
> - give all the individual country maintainers also access to that package 
> - have a central documentation, e.g. django-localflavor.readthedocs.org 
> - update the Django docs to point to that package 
> - ask the maintainers of the 7 already released packages to point to the 
> newly created django-localflavor 


I am also for this.

However, if the django-localflavor merge doesn't occur, at a minimum the 
django-localflavor-* ecosystem needs:

- A procedure for requesting access to maintain a django-localflavor-* 
variant
- A project for maintaining suggestions and guidelines for 
django-localflavor maintainers (e.g. use PyPI, add South rules, use tox)
- Relevant links to procedures and guidelines in every django-localflavor-* 
README file

I volunteer help merge changes for the django-localflavor-us variant if 
help is needed.

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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Jannis Leidel]

On 21.05.2013, at 20:00, ptone  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, Jannis Leidel wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> I'd like propose to combine all the django-localflavor-* packages - that were 
> moved out of contrib a while ago - into a new "django-localflavor" package. 
> None of the current maintainers would lose the commit bit. I'm ready to do 
> the heavy lifting for that. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> What do you think? 
> 
> Clearly the current fragmentation has proven unworkable, so I think there is 
> only upside in trying this approach.
> 
> I think there needs to be someone who will coordinate the version bumps and 
> releases to PyPI  - perhaps just document that it will be released n times 
> per year on dates a, b, c, d - and just roll whatever changes make it in by 
> those dates? Maybe you are volunteering for that as well ;-)

Oh, I am indeed volunteering to do the initial re-combination and act as 
release manager afterwards. I'm not a huge fan of forced time based releases, 
but I can't see another good indicator to do a release except "when needed". 
I'll know better once I have a better picture of the changes that were made to 
the localflavors in the recent months.

Jannis 

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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Jannis Leidel]

On 21.05.2013, at 15:06, Aymeric Augustin  
wrote:

> 2013/5/21 Jannis Leidel 
> I'd like propose to combine all the django-localflavor-* packages - that were 
> moved out of contrib a while ago - into a new "django-localflavor" package. 
> None of the current maintainers would lose the commit bit. I'm ready to do 
> the heavy lifting for that.
> 
> I'd love to see localflavor in a better shape, even though I don't have 
> strong opinions on what should be done.
> 
> The situation would certainly be less dire if we had looked for maintainers. 
> Did we say clearly that we wanted to hand over the repositories to local 
> maintainers?
> 
> Merging the repositories again will require a non-negligible amount of work 
> and a second migration for users who already started using 
> django_localflavor_xx.
> 
> However, if you're convinced that's the right thing to do at this point, I 
> don't oppose that move. It would help maintain best practices, especially 
> wrt. backwards-compatibility and testing.

Agreed, the maintenance policy would be along the lines of what Django does, 
but it wouldn't be hard-locked into Django's release cycle. In case there would 
be changes in Django that require a backwards-incompatible change localflavor 
ought to support both APIs (as long as the old API is in a maintained version 
of Django).

Jannis


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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[ptone]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, Jannis Leidel wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I'd like propose to combine all the django-localflavor-* packages - that 
> were moved out of contrib a while ago - into a new "django-localflavor" 
> package. None of the current maintainers would lose the commit bit. I'm 
> ready to do the heavy lifting for that. 
>
>
>  

>
> What do you think? 
>

Clearly the current fragmentation has proven unworkable, so I think there 
is only upside in trying this approach.

I think there needs to be someone who will coordinate the version bumps and 
releases to PyPI  - perhaps just document that it will be released n times 
per year on dates a, b, c, d - and just roll whatever changes make it in by 
those dates? Maybe you are volunteering for that as well ;-)

so +1 from me.

-Preston

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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Jannis Leidel  wrote:
> What do you think?

I have no opinions either way, happy to help out if this is the
direction you want to go.

Jacob

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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Donald Stufft]

On May 21, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jannis Leidel  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'd like propose to combine all the django-localflavor-* packages - that were 
> moved out of contrib a while ago - into a new "django-localflavor" package. 
> None of the current maintainers would lose the commit bit. I'm ready to do 
> the heavy lifting for that.
> 
> Ever since the localflavor apps were removed from contrib I've seen many 
> stale ones, lingering on Github, only collecting issues and pull requests, 
> without much guidance. We have been missing maintainers since the removal 
> from contrib, even if some of the core developers helped out every once in a 
> while. Recently we added a few more maintainers for each of those packages 
> since they asked for it, which is great. But frankly I think that's not 
> enough. Up until now only 7 of the 44 localflavor on github.com/django have 
> been re-released on PyPI as separate packages. In other words, we have a 
> success rate of handing over the maintainership of ~15%. I think that's 
> because there is a lot of maintenance friction for each package.
> 
> With the split in packages we also broke the maintenance of translations of 
> those localflavors, by removing those apps from the previously well 
> established workflow using Transifex and left it to the maintainers to find a 
> way. Especially for that kind of app a rather glaring mistake, IMO.
> 
> We also stopped being able to re-use code between localflavors, for example 
> cryptographic code about ID validation, which in my opinion is a security 
> liability that alone should be reason enough to have only one package.
> 
> There was also never a clear plan for releasing or deprecation of localflavor 
> packages, which is the opposite to what we've been doing in the past with our 
> release policy.
> 
> So what I propose to fix this is simple:
> 
> - combine the localflavor packages into one Python package again, call it 
> django-localflavor
> - give all the individual country maintainers also access to that package
> - have a central documentation, e.g. django-localflavor.readthedocs.org
> - update the Django docs to point to that package
> - ask the maintainers of the 7 already released packages to point to the 
> newly created django-localflavor
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Jannis
> 
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> 
> 


This sounds ok to me.

-
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA



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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Łukasz Langa]

On 21 maj 2013, at 14:51, Jannis Leidel  wrote:

> - combine the localflavor packages into one Python package again, call it 
> django-localflavor
> - give all the individual country maintainers also access to that package
> - have a central documentation, e.g. django-localflavor.readthedocs.org
> - update the Django docs to point to that package
> - ask the maintainers of the 7 already released packages to point to the 
> newly created django-localflavor
> 
> What do you think?


+1

This will make handling backwards compatibility easier, especially by having a 
central deprecation policy on outdated or invalid data in separate 
localflavors. Users have the right to know when compatibility might break and 
when a fix is going to get deployed. Such a combination will also enable users 
to use a flavor that lacks a formal maintainer.

Just $0.02 from the just-proclaimed django-localflavor-pl maintainer.

-- 
Best regards,
Łukasz Langa

WWW: http://lukasz.langa.pl/
Twitter: @llanga
IRC: ambv on #python-dev

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Re: Combine localflavor apps again

[Aymeric Augustin]

2013/5/21 Jannis Leidel 

> I'd like propose to combine all the django-localflavor-* packages - that
> were moved out of contrib a while ago - into a new "django-localflavor"
> package. None of the current maintainers would lose the commit bit. I'm
> ready to do the heavy lifting for that.


I'd love to see localflavor in a better shape, even though I don't have
strong opinions on what should be done.

The situation would certainly be less dire if we had looked for
maintainers. Did we say clearly that we wanted to hand over the
repositories to local maintainers?

Merging the repositories again will require a non-negligible amount of work
and a second migration for users who already started using
django_localflavor_xx.

However, if you're convinced that's the right thing to do at this point, I
don't oppose that move. It would help maintain best practices, especially
wrt. backwards-compatibility and testing.

-- 
Aymeric.

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Combine localflavor apps again

[Jannis Leidel]

Hi all,

I'd like propose to combine all the django-localflavor-* packages - that were 
moved out of contrib a while ago - into a new "django-localflavor" package. 
None of the current maintainers would lose the commit bit. I'm ready to do the 
heavy lifting for that.

Ever since the localflavor apps were removed from contrib I've seen many stale 
ones, lingering on Github, only collecting issues and pull requests, without 
much guidance. We have been missing maintainers since the removal from contrib, 
even if some of the core developers helped out every once in a while. Recently 
we added a few more maintainers for each of those packages since they asked for 
it, which is great. But frankly I think that's not enough. Up until now only 7 
of the 44 localflavor on github.com/django have been re-released on PyPI as 
separate packages. In other words, we have a success rate of handing over the 
maintainership of ~15%. I think that's because there is a lot of maintenance 
friction for each package.

With the split in packages we also broke the maintenance of translations of 
those localflavors, by removing those apps from the previously well established 
workflow using Transifex and left it to the maintainers to find a way. 
Especially for that kind of app a rather glaring mistake, IMO.

We also stopped being able to re-use code between localflavors, for example 
cryptographic code about ID validation, which in my opinion is a security 
liability that alone should be reason enough to have only one package.

There was also never a clear plan for releasing or deprecation of localflavor 
packages, which is the opposite to what we've been doing in the past with our 
release policy.

So what I propose to fix this is simple:

- combine the localflavor packages into one Python package again, call it 
django-localflavor
- give all the individual country maintainers also access to that package
- have a central documentation, e.g. django-localflavor.readthedocs.org
- update the Django docs to point to that package
- ask the maintainers of the 7 already released packages to point to the newly 
created django-localflavor

What do you think?

Jannis

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