Re: unittest.TestCase vs. django.test.TestCase in overview example

[Lorin Hochstein]

I created a Django Trac ticket for 
this: https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/20165


On Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:30:44 PM UTC-4, Brian Schott wrote:
>
> There is really a bigger question in my mind about the appropriateness of 
> using django.utils.unittest in the testing overview section.  It is an 
> optimization that the warning admits is fairly limited for real testing and 
> is premature for the first example.  It would be better to break out the 
> optimization as a Note "if your tests don't rely on database access, you 
> can ... optimize with django.utils import...".  The testing overview 
> section should import the class that works correctly when testing 
> Animal.objects.create() or self.lion.save().
>
> It's also not a case of catering.  Enclosed is a link to a screen shot 
> that starts with "Writing tests" and ends with "For more details about 
> unittest, see the Python documentation".
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9eh2zgkxphc5rvo/django_test_doc_screen.png
> Nowhere on that first screen of documentation on a 20 inch monitor does it 
> refer to django.test.TestCase and "For more details..." reads like the end 
> of the section.  It's really easy to not see the warning and the first two 
> examples of what someone glancing at the docs to manually create a tests.py 
> file will read is "from django.utils import unittest". which causes a 
> very non-obvious unit test failures in the most typical test cases.  
>
> Thanks for reconsidering the patch!  Lorin's version is much clearer.
> Brian
>
> On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Tim Graham  
> wrote:
>
> It seems like it could be a dangerous precedent to cater to people who 
> don't take the time to fully read the docs, but in this case I'm a bit 
> sympathetic. On the other hand, this example will probably be a bit more 
> obvious when we drop support for Python 2.6 and no longer have 
> django.utils.unittest. At the least, we could probably move the warning 
> above the example so it's a bit more visible.
>
> On Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:27:01 PM UTC-4, Lorin Hochstein wrote:
>>
>> Hi there:
>>
>> On the Django testing overview doc page <
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/testing/overview/>, the 
>> initial example uses unittest.TestCase. A Django developer who was looking 
>> for a quick reminder on how to write unit tests is likely to hit this page 
>> first. If that developer doesn't read the "warning" section below, they 
>> could mistakenly use unittest.TestCase when their unit tests change  the 
>> database. This very scenario happened to a colleague of mine.
>>
>> I proposed changing this to django.test.TestCase <
>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/903>, but that pull request with 
>> closed out by Aymeric Augustin, with reference to <
>> https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/15896>. I don't think ticket 
>> #15986 covers quite the same issue, despite its title. Django devs, can you 
>> reconsider this doc patch?
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Lorin
>>
>>
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Re: unittest.TestCase vs. django.test.TestCase in overview example

[Brian Schott]

There is really a bigger question in my mind about the appropriateness of using 
django.utils.unittest in the testing overview section.  It is an optimization 
that the warning admits is fairly limited for real testing and is premature for 
the first example.  It would be better to break out the optimization as a Note 
"if your tests don't rely on database access, you can ... optimize with 
django.utils import...".  The testing overview section should import the class 
that works correctly when testing Animal.objects.create() or self.lion.save().

It's also not a case of catering.  Enclosed is a link to a screen shot that 
starts with "Writing tests" and ends with "For more details about unittest, see 
the Python documentation".
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9eh2zgkxphc5rvo/django_test_doc_screen.png
Nowhere on that first screen of documentation on a 20 inch monitor does it 
refer to django.test.TestCase and "For more details..." reads like the end of 
the section.  It's really easy to not see the warning and the first two 
examples of what someone glancing at the docs to manually create a tests.py 
file will read is "from django.utils import unittest". which causes a very 
non-obvious unit test failures in the most typical test cases.  

Thanks for reconsidering the patch!  Lorin's version is much clearer.
Brian

On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:

> It seems like it could be a dangerous precedent to cater to people who don't 
> take the time to fully read the docs, but in this case I'm a bit sympathetic. 
> On the other hand, this example will probably be a bit more obvious when we 
> drop support for Python 2.6 and no longer have django.utils.unittest. At the 
> least, we could probably move the warning above the example so it's a bit 
> more visible.
> 
> On Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:27:01 PM UTC-4, Lorin Hochstein wrote:
> Hi there:
> 
> On the Django testing overview doc page 
> , the initial 
> example uses unittest.TestCase. A Django developer who was looking for a 
> quick reminder on how to write unit tests is likely to hit this page first. 
> If that developer doesn't read the "warning" section below, they could 
> mistakenly use unittest.TestCase when their unit tests change  the database. 
> This very scenario happened to a colleague of mine.
> 
> I proposed changing this to django.test.TestCase 
> , but that pull request with 
> closed out by Aymeric Augustin, with reference to 
> . I don't think ticket #15986 
> covers quite the same issue, despite its title. Django devs, can you 
> reconsider this doc patch?
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Lorin
> 
> 
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>  
>  

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Re: unittest.TestCase vs. django.test.TestCase in overview example

[Lorin Hochstein]

Will dropping support for Python 2.6 have any effect here? I assumed the 
example would just switch to using unittest.TestCase instead of 
django.utils.unittest.TestCase, and the usability issue would remain.

I think having the warning above the example would help, but I'd still 
prefer having the (slower but less likely to cause an error in a different 
context) django.test.TestCase used in the initial example.


On Monday, March 25, 2013 2:08:54 PM UTC-4, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> It seems like it could be a dangerous precedent to cater to people who 
> don't take the time to fully read the docs, but in this case I'm a bit 
> sympathetic. On the other hand, this example will probably be a bit more 
> obvious when we drop support for Python 2.6 and no longer have 
> django.utils.unittest. At the least, we could probably move the warning 
> above the example so it's a bit more visible.
>
> On Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:27:01 PM UTC-4, Lorin Hochstein wrote:
>>
>> Hi there:
>>
>> On the Django testing overview doc page <
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/testing/overview/>, the 
>> initial example uses unittest.TestCase. A Django developer who was looking 
>> for a quick reminder on how to write unit tests is likely to hit this page 
>> first. If that developer doesn't read the "warning" section below, they 
>> could mistakenly use unittest.TestCase when their unit tests change  the 
>> database. This very scenario happened to a colleague of mine.
>>
>> I proposed changing this to django.test.TestCase <
>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/903>, but that pull request with 
>> closed out by Aymeric Augustin, with reference to <
>> https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/15896>. I don't think ticket 
>> #15986 covers quite the same issue, despite its title. Django devs, can you 
>> reconsider this doc patch?
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Lorin
>>
>>

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Re: unittest.TestCase vs. django.test.TestCase in overview example

[Tim Graham]

It seems like it could be a dangerous precedent to cater to people who 
don't take the time to fully read the docs, but in this case I'm a bit 
sympathetic. On the other hand, this example will probably be a bit more 
obvious when we drop support for Python 2.6 and no longer have 
django.utils.unittest. At the least, we could probably move the warning 
above the example so it's a bit more visible.

On Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:27:01 PM UTC-4, Lorin Hochstein wrote:
>
> Hi there:
>
> On the Django testing overview doc page <
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/testing/overview/>, the 
> initial example uses unittest.TestCase. A Django developer who was looking 
> for a quick reminder on how to write unit tests is likely to hit this page 
> first. If that developer doesn't read the "warning" section below, they 
> could mistakenly use unittest.TestCase when their unit tests change  the 
> database. This very scenario happened to a colleague of mine.
>
> I proposed changing this to django.test.TestCase <
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/903>, but that pull request with 
> closed out by Aymeric Augustin, with reference to <
> https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/15896>. I don't think ticket #15986 
> covers quite the same issue, despite its title. Django devs, can you 
> reconsider this doc patch?
>
> Take care,
>
> Lorin
>
>

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unittest.TestCase vs. django.test.TestCase in overview example

[Lorin Hochstein]

Hi there:

On the Django testing overview doc page 
, the 
initial example uses unittest.TestCase. A Django developer who was looking 
for a quick reminder on how to write unit tests is likely to hit this page 
first. If that developer doesn't read the "warning" section below, they 
could mistakenly use unittest.TestCase when their unit tests change  the 
database. This very scenario happened to a colleague of mine.

I proposed changing this to django.test.TestCase 
, but that pull request with 
closed out by Aymeric Augustin, with reference to 
. I don't think ticket #15986 
covers quite the same issue, despite its title. Django devs, can you 
reconsider this doc patch?

Take care,

Lorin

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