Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Hi Dev,

I believe that it would not provide much more security around the details.

Thank you for responding.


Regards

Lance


On 11/13/18 4:55 AM, Devender Kumar wrote:

Hi
Study about LDAP protocol
Regards
Dev

On Tue 13 Nov, 2018, 4:06 AM PASCUAL Eric <mailto:eric.pasc...@cstb.fr> wrote:


Hi Lance,


Well, I was off topic. Sorry for this :/ I understand your need
better now.


There are chances you've already thought to this option, but what
about storing the sensitive data encrypted with a key based on a
passphrase the user must provide when logging, in addition to the
usual credentials ? This passphrase would not be stored anywhere,
so even if the DB is compromised, the sensitive data would not be
usable.


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>
mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Lance Haig
mailto:lnh...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 4:45:50 PM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>
    *Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?

Hi Eric,


I am sure I have not explained myself properly.

The app does the following.

It presents a user the ability to sign up to a cloud platform for
a sandbox / playground account.
The number of cloud services that are available will change over time.

Each cloud platform has a set of credentials (username, password,
domain etc...) These credentials will have elevated permissions
within their own environments and so should be kept as safe as
possible.

Currently I use secrets and .env files to provide these credentials.
This requires physical access to the platform to add new secrets
etc...

I want to enable editing (e.g. CRUD on the platform credentials)
without having to redeploy the application or update the secrets.
The idea was to enable an admin interface to the DB so that each
cloud platform admin could add more or delete their platform from
the solution.
This requires a place to store secrets that can be updated deleted
and created.
I was hoping that there might be a standard way to store these
that is secure other than adding secrets or updating the .env file.

Thanks for trying to understand my vague question.

Lance



On 11/12/18 10:04 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi Lance,


 but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to
add their cloud details to the app and then store their
credentials securely.


I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to
the app for the admins.


The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is
managed as K8S secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for
instance) credentials set (which are stored and managed at GCloud
level), they can administrate the secrets resources by "applying"
the corresponding YAML descriptors remotely from their
workstation. The sensitive values are thus stored nowhere inside
the application itself, but passed to the containers at runtime
as environment variables.


Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my
answer is off topic.


Best


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>

<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Lance Haig
 <mailto:lnh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
    <mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?

Hi Eric,


Thanks for the response.


This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so
most probably docker with some form of orchestration, Docker
swarm or Kubernetes.


The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment
and could be added to the secrets but I need for people who are
admins for a particular cloud to add their cloud details to the
app and then store their credentials securely.


Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i
don't know how to do yet


Regards


Lance



On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the
application.


For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes
gives the option of using secrets for sensitive information,
which a hoster such as GCP manages conveniently. In this kind of
deployment, configuration (and secrets) are passed to the app as
environment variables, on which Kubernetes configur

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Thanks Eric,


I did not explain myself properly so the mistake was mine.


Thanks for the help.


Lance


On 11/12/18 11:35 PM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi Lance,


Well, I was off topic. Sorry for this :/ I understand your need better 
now.



There are chances you've already thought to this option, but what 
about storing the sensitive data encrypted with a key based on a 
passphrase the user must provide when logging, in addition to the 
usual credentials ? This passphrase would not be stored anywhere, so 
even if the DB is compromised, the sensitive data would not be usable.



Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com  
on behalf of Lance Haig 

*Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 4:45:50 PM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?

Hi Eric,


I am sure I have not explained myself properly.

The app does the following.

It presents a user the ability to sign up to a cloud platform for a 
sandbox / playground account.

The number of cloud services that are available will change over time.

Each cloud platform has a set of credentials (username, password, 
domain etc...) These credentials will have elevated permissions within 
their own environments and so should be kept as safe as possible.


Currently I use secrets and .env files to provide these credentials.
This requires physical access to the platform to add new secrets etc...

I want to enable editing (e.g. CRUD on the platform credentials) 
without having to redeploy the application or update the secrets.
The idea was to enable an admin interface to the DB so that each cloud 
platform admin could add more or delete their platform from the solution.
This requires a place to store secrets that can be updated deleted and 
created.
I was hoping that there might be a standard way to store these that is 
secure other than adding secrets or updating the .env file.


Thanks for trying to understand my vague question.

Lance



On 11/12/18 10:04 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi Lance,


 but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to add 
their cloud details to the app and then store their credentials securely.



I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to the 
app for the admins.



The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is managed 
as K8S secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for instance) 
credentials set (which are stored and managed at GCloud level), they 
can administrate the secrets resources by "applying" the 
corresponding YAML descriptors remotely from their workstation. The 
sensitive values are thus stored nowhere inside the application 
itself, but passed to the containers at runtime as environment variables.



Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my 
answer is off topic.



Best


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> 
 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Lance Haig 
 <mailto:lnh...@gmail.com>

*Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>

*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?

Hi Eric,


Thanks for the response.


This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so 
most probably docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or 
Kubernetes.



The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and 
could be added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins 
for a particular cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then 
store their credentials securely.



Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i 
don't know how to do yet



Regards


Lance



On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the 
application.



For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives 
the option of using secrets for sensitive information, which a 
hoster such as GCP manages conveniently. In this kind of deployment, 
configuration (and secrets) are passed to the app as environment 
variables, on which Kubernetes configuration maps and secrets are 
mapped to. Thanks to this, values are stored nowhere in the app 
code, companion files or database.



Regards


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> 
 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mike Dewhirst 
 <mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>

*Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>

*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM,

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Thanks I will take a look at that


Lance


On 11/13/18 6:29 AM, Mike Dewhirst wrote:

Another thought

Django admin has a built-in mechanism for password management. It 
includes forms with password widgets.Perhaps you could hack your own 
encryption of the cloud credentials based on the Django approach to 
passwords.


It is possible to add forms to the Admin and include your own logic. I 
have done that - without the extra credentials part - to create 
additional data based on converting a @domain added to a username into 
a company name and company profile.


Mike

On Monday, November 12, 2018 at 12:47:56 AM UTC+11, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/
 and
part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to
the list.

I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
records
for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when people
request access to these services.

I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that
even if
the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.

Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?

I would really appreciate some advice.

Regards

Lance



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Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Mike Dewhirst]

Another thought

Django admin has a built-in mechanism for password management. It includes 
forms with password widgets.Perhaps you could hack your own encryption of 
the cloud credentials based on the Django approach to passwords.

It is possible to add forms to the Admin and include your own logic. I have 
done that - without the extra credentials part - to create additional data 
based on converting a @domain added to a username into a company name and 
company profile.

Mike

On Monday, November 12, 2018 at 12:47:56 AM UTC+11, Lance Haig wrote:
>
> Hi, 
>
> I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and 
> part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the list. 
>
> I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create records 
> for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when people 
> request access to these services. 
>
> I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if 
> the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe. 
>
> Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this? 
>
> I would really appreciate some advice. 
>
> Regards 
>
> Lance 
>
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Django users" group.
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to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-users.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Devender Kumar]

Hi
Study about LDAP protocol
Regards
Dev

On Tue 13 Nov, 2018, 4:06 AM PASCUAL Eric  Hi Lance,
>
>
> Well, I was off topic. Sorry for this :/ I understand your need better
> now.
>
>
> There are chances you've already thought to this option, but what about
> storing the sensitive data encrypted with a key based on a passphrase the
> user must provide when logging, in addition to the usual credentials ? This
> passphrase would not be stored anywhere, so even if the DB is compromised,
> the sensitive data would not be usable.
>
>
> Eric
> --
> *From:* django-users@googlegroups.com  on
> behalf of Lance Haig 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 4:45:50 PM
> *To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I am sure I have not explained myself properly.
>
> The app does the following.
>
> It presents a user the ability to sign up to a cloud platform for a
> sandbox / playground account.
> The number of cloud services that are available will change over time.
>
> Each cloud platform has a set of credentials (username, password, domain
> etc...) These credentials will have elevated permissions within their own
> environments and so should be kept as safe as possible.
>
> Currently I use secrets and .env files to provide these credentials.
> This requires physical access to the platform to add new secrets etc...
>
> I want to enable editing (e.g. CRUD on the platform credentials) without
> having to redeploy the application or update the secrets.
> The idea was to enable an admin interface to the DB so that each cloud
> platform admin could add more or delete their platform from the solution.
> This requires a place to store secrets that can be updated deleted and
> created.
> I was hoping that there might be a standard way to store these that is
> secure other than adding secrets or updating the .env file.
>
> Thanks for trying to understand my vague question.
>
> Lance
>
>
>
> On 11/12/18 10:04 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:
>
> Hi Lance,
>
>
>  but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to add their
> cloud details to the app and then store their credentials securely.
>
>
> I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to the app
> for the admins.
>
>
> The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is managed as K8S
> secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for instance) credentials set
> (which are stored and managed at GCloud level), they can administrate the
> secrets resources by "applying" the corresponding YAML descriptors
> remotely from their workstation. The sensitive values are thus stored
> nowhere inside the application itself, but passed to the containers at
> runtime as environment variables.
>
>
> Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my answer is
> off topic.
>
>
> Best
>
>
> Eric
> --
> *From:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
>  on behalf of Lance Haig 
> 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
> *To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
>
> This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so most
> probably docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or Kubernetes.
>
>
> The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and could
> be added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins for a
> particular cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then store their
> credentials securely.
>
>
> Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i don't
> know how to do yet
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Lance
>
>
>
> On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the
> application.
>
>
> For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives the
> option of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster such as
> GCP manages conveniently. In this kind of deployment, configuration (and
> secrets) are passed to the app as environment variables, on which
> Kubernetes configuration maps and secrets are mapped to. Thanks to this,
> values are stored nowhere in the app code, companion files or database.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Eric
> --
> *From:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
>  on behalf of Mike Dewhirst
>  
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
> *To:* django-users@googlegroups

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[PASCUAL Eric]

Hi Lance,


Well, I was off topic. Sorry for this :/ I understand your need better now.


There are chances you've already thought to this option, but what about storing 
the sensitive data encrypted with a key based on a passphrase the user must 
provide when logging, in addition to the usual credentials ? This passphrase 
would not be stored anywhere, so even if the DB is compromised, the sensitive 
data would not be usable.


Eric


From: django-users@googlegroups.com  on behalf 
of Lance Haig 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 4:45:50 PM
To: django-users@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do I store details securely with django?


Hi Eric,

I am sure I have not explained myself properly.

The app does the following.

It presents a user the ability to sign up to a cloud platform for a sandbox / 
playground account.
The number of cloud services that are available will change over time.

Each cloud platform has a set of credentials (username, password, domain 
etc...) These credentials will have elevated permissions within their own 
environments and so should be kept as safe as possible.

Currently I use secrets and .env files to provide these credentials.
This requires physical access to the platform to add new secrets etc...

I want to enable editing (e.g. CRUD on the platform credentials) without having 
to redeploy the application or update the secrets.
The idea was to enable an admin interface to the DB so that each cloud platform 
admin could add more or delete their platform from the solution.
This requires a place to store secrets that can be updated deleted and created.
I was hoping that there might be a standard way to store these that is secure 
other than adding secrets or updating the .env file.

Thanks for trying to understand my vague question.

Lance



On 11/12/18 10:04 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:

Hi Lance,


 but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to add their cloud 
details to the app and then store their credentials securely.


I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to the app for the 
admins.


The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is managed as K8S 
secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for instance) credentials set 
(which are stored and managed at GCloud level), they can administrate the 
secrets resources by "applying" the corresponding YAML descriptors remotely 
from their workstation. The sensitive values are thus stored nowhere inside the 
application itself, but passed to the containers at runtime as environment 
variables.


Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my answer is off 
topic.


Best


Eric


From: django-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf 
of Lance Haig <mailto:lnh...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
To: django-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: How do I store details securely with django?


Hi Eric,


Thanks for the response.


This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so most probably 
docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or Kubernetes.


The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and could be 
added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins for a particular 
cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then store their credentials 
securely.


Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i don't know how 
to do yet


Regards


Lance



On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:

Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the application.


For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives the option 
of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster such as GCP manages 
conveniently. In this kind of deployment, configuration (and secrets) are 
passed to the app as environment variables, on which Kubernetes configuration 
maps and secrets are mapped to. Thanks to this, values are stored nowhere in 
the app code, companion files or database.


Regards


Eric


From: django-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf 
of Mike Dewhirst <mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
To: django-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: How do I store details securely with django?

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and
> part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the
> list.
>
> I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
> records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when
&

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

I have highlighted these sentences in your response

*The bottom line question: What is lost if temporary creds are 
compromised?*


The credentials have high level access to the backed system think e.g  
kubernetes admin so compromise would mean full access to kubernetes to 
add remove delete anything.



*What plan do you have to execute to recover from the feared event 
when/if it happens?*


This is a valid question, The recovery for these would be rebuild of a 
cluster or service. depending on the damage caused.



It seems my idea of making these options configurable via a web UI will 
not easily be done.


I will have to stay with the current deployment plan.

Thanks


Lance



On 11/12/18 9:30 AM, Mike Dewhirst wrote:

On 12/11/2018 7:02 PM, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for responding.

My answers inline


On 11/11/18 11:07 PM, Mike Dewhirst wrote:

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ 
and part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types 
to the list.


I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create 
records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these 
when people request access to these services.


I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even 
if the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.


I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what 
are your other assumptions about the threats?


How many sets of credentials will there be?



it could potentially be 5 to 10 per admin account




In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, 
certificates, multi factor auth?



These credentials are access details to other clouds.

The application is a user sandbox portal to allow admins to grant X 
number of days access to a cloud for testing and discovery.


It currently is focused on openstack but he roadmap plan is to add 
docker Kubernetes etc..


So I need to have the ability for the cloud admins to add or remove 
authentication details as they are needed.


I haven't thought deeply about this because it is not my project but 
on the surface, if they are temporary credentials I cannot see much 
need for heavy duty security.


If the perceived risk is database compromise it might be better to 
configure the database or the database server with an ACL including 
only the Django server IP address and perhaps one or two trusted people.


Maybe Kubernetes secrets is the eventual way forward but scalability 
is assured if you can keep the creds in the database.


What about a separate non-public schema (assuming Postgres) for creds? 
I'm sure you could lock that down to particular permission groups 
which ought keep things secure enough.


The bottom line question: What is lost if temporary creds are 
compromised?


Risk is hazard multiplied by likelihood/opportunity

If you can reduce either side of that equation you reduce risk.

What plan do you have to execute to recover from the feared event 
when/if it happens?


When all things are considered the answer to that last question 
determines how much effort is warranted.








If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can 
store credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method 
to fetch them as required. That will keep them out of the database 
and let you rejig the method after you have decided how it should 
really work.


I currently use the .env file to hold these credentials but that does 
not scale very well when you need to add more and more.





Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?

I would really appreciate some advice.

Regards

Lance











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Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Hi Eric,


I am sure I have not explained myself properly.

The app does the following.

It presents a user the ability to sign up to a cloud platform for a 
sandbox / playground account.

The number of cloud services that are available will change over time.

Each cloud platform has a set of credentials (username, password, domain 
etc...) These credentials will have elevated permissions within their 
own environments and so should be kept as safe as possible.


Currently I use secrets and .env files to provide these credentials.
This requires physical access to the platform to add new secrets etc...

I want to enable editing (e.g. CRUD on the platform credentials) without 
having to redeploy the application or update the secrets.
The idea was to enable an admin interface to the DB so that each cloud 
platform admin could add more or delete their platform from the solution.
This requires a place to store secrets that can be updated deleted and 
created.
I was hoping that there might be a standard way to store these that is 
secure other than adding secrets or updating the .env file.


Thanks for trying to understand my vague question.

Lance



On 11/12/18 10:04 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi Lance,


 but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to add 
their cloud details to the app and then store their credentials securely.



I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to the 
app for the admins.



The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is managed as 
K8S secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for instance) 
credentials set (which are stored and managed at GCloud level), they 
can administrate the secrets resources by "applying" the corresponding 
YAML descriptors remotely from their workstation. The sensitive values 
are thus stored nowhere inside the application itself, but passed to 
the containers at runtime as environment variables.



Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my answer 
is off topic.



Best


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com  
on behalf of Lance Haig 

*Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?

Hi Eric,


Thanks for the response.


This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so most 
probably docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or 
Kubernetes.



The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and 
could be added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins for 
a particular cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then 
store their credentials securely.



Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i don't 
know how to do yet



Regards


Lance



On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the 
application.



For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives 
the option of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster 
such as GCP manages conveniently. In this kind of deployment, 
configuration (and secrets) are passed to the app as environment 
variables, on which Kubernetes configuration maps and secrets are 
mapped to. Thanks to this, values are stored nowhere in the app code, 
companion files or database.



Regards


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> 
 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mike Dewhirst 
 <mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>

*Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>

*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and
> part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the
> list.
>
> I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
> records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when
> people request access to these services.
>
> I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if
> the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.

I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are
your other assumptions about the threats?

How many sets of credentials will there be?

In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, certificates,
multi factor auth?

If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Pradeep Singh]

can i develop real estate web application using python+ django

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 14:35, PASCUAL Eric  wrote:

> Hi Lance,
>
>
>  but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to add their
> cloud details to the app and then store their credentials securely.
>
>
> I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to the app
> for the admins.
>
>
> The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is managed as K8S
> secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for instance) credentials set
> (which are stored and managed at GCloud level), they can administrate the
> secrets resources by "applying" the corresponding YAML descriptors
> remotely from their workstation. The sensitive values are thus stored
> nowhere inside the application itself, but passed to the containers at
> runtime as environment variables.
>
>
> Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my answer is
> off topic.
>
>
> Best
>
>
> Eric
> --
> *From:* django-users@googlegroups.com  on
> behalf of Lance Haig 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
> *To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
>
> This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so most
> probably docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or Kubernetes.
>
>
> The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and could
> be added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins for a
> particular cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then store their
> credentials securely.
>
>
> Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i don't
> know how to do yet
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Lance
>
>
>
> On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the
> application.
>
>
> For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives the
> option of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster such as
> GCP manages conveniently. In this kind of deployment, configuration (and
> secrets) are passed to the app as environment variables, on which
> Kubernetes configuration maps and secrets are mapped to. Thanks to this,
> values are stored nowhere in the app code, companion files or database.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Eric
> --
> *From:* django-users@googlegroups.com 
>  on behalf of Mike Dewhirst
>  
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
> *To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
>
> On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and
> > part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the
> > list.
> >
> > I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
> > records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when
> > people request access to these services.
> >
> > I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if
> > the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.
>
> I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are
> your other assumptions about the threats?
>
> How many sets of credentials will there be?
>
> In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, certificates,
> multi factor auth?
>
> If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store
> credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch
> them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you
> rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.
>
> >
> > Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?
> >
> > I would really appreciate some advice.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Lance
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-users.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/c8819341-7c60-56ee-6298-3a6a7897e9b1%40dewhirst.com.au
> .
> For more 

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[PASCUAL Eric]

Hi Lance,


 but I need for people who are admins for a particular cloud to add their cloud 
details to the app and then store their credentials securely.


I'm not sure to understand the need for adding cloud details to the app for the 
admins.


The suggestion I made assumed that sensitive information is managed as K8S 
secrets. As long as the admins have GCloud (for instance) credentials set 
(which are stored and managed at GCloud level), they can administrate the 
secrets resources by "applying" the corresponding YAML descriptors remotely 
from their workstation. The sensitive values are thus stored nowhere inside the 
application itself, but passed to the containers at runtime as environment 
variables.


Maybe I've misunderstood your need and sorry in this case if my answer is off 
topic.


Best


Eric


From: django-users@googlegroups.com  on behalf 
of Lance Haig 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 9:07:30 AM
To: django-users@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do I store details securely with django?


Hi Eric,


Thanks for the response.


This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so most probably 
docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or Kubernetes.


The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and could be 
added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins for a particular 
cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then store their credentials 
securely.


Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i don't know how 
to do yet


Regards


Lance



On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:

Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the application.


For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives the option 
of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster such as GCP manages 
conveniently. In this kind of deployment, configuration (and secrets) are 
passed to the app as environment variables, on which Kubernetes configuration 
maps and secrets are mapped to. Thanks to this, values are stored nowhere in 
the app code, companion files or database.


Regards


Eric


From: django-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> 
<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com> on behalf 
of Mike Dewhirst <mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
To: django-users@googlegroups.com<mailto:django-users@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: How do I store details securely with django?

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and
> part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the
> list.
>
> I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
> records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when
> people request access to these services.
>
> I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if
> the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.

I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are
your other assumptions about the threats?

How many sets of credentials will there be?

In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, certificates,
multi factor auth?

If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.

>
> Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?
>
> I would really appreciate some advice.
>
> Regards
>
> Lance
>
>
>

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To v

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Mike Dewhirst]

On 12/11/2018 7:02 PM, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for responding.

My answers inline


On 11/11/18 11:07 PM, Mike Dewhirst wrote:

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and 
part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the 
list.


I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create 
records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when 
people request access to these services.


I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even 
if the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.


I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are 
your other assumptions about the threats?


How many sets of credentials will there be?



it could potentially be 5 to 10 per admin account




In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, 
certificates, multi factor auth?



These credentials are access details to other clouds.

The application is a user sandbox portal to allow admins to grant X 
number of days access to a cloud for testing and discovery.


It currently is focused on openstack but he roadmap plan is to add 
docker Kubernetes etc..


So I need to have the ability for the cloud admins to add or remove 
authentication details as they are needed.


I haven't thought deeply about this because it is not my project but on 
the surface, if they are temporary credentials I cannot see much need 
for heavy duty security.


If the perceived risk is database compromise it might be better to 
configure the database or the database server with an ACL including only 
the Django server IP address and perhaps one or two trusted people.


Maybe Kubernetes secrets is the eventual way forward but scalability is 
assured if you can keep the creds in the database.


What about a separate non-public schema (assuming Postgres) for creds? 
I'm sure you could lock that down to particular permission groups which 
ought keep things secure enough.


The bottom line question: What is lost if temporary creds are compromised?

Risk is hazard multiplied by likelihood/opportunity

If you can reduce either side of that equation you reduce risk.

What plan do you have to execute to recover from the feared event 
when/if it happens?


When all things are considered the answer to that last question 
determines how much effort is warranted.








If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store 
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch 
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you 
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.


I currently use the .env file to hold these credentials but that does 
not scale very well when you need to add more and more.





Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?

I would really appreciate some advice.

Regards

Lance









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Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Hi Eric,


Thanks for the response.


This idea has an end goal of being deployed in a resilient way so most 
probably docker with some form of orchestration, Docker swarm or Kubernetes.



The credentials are mainly stored in a .env file at the moment and could 
be added to the secrets but I need for people who are admins for a 
particular cloud to add their cloud details to the app and then store 
their credentials securely.



Unfortunately this will need a dynamic storage mechanism which i don't 
know how to do yet



Regards


Lance



On 11/12/18 12:03 AM, PASCUAL Eric wrote:


Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the 
application.



For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives the 
option of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster such 
as GCP manages conveniently. In this kind of deployment, configuration 
(and secrets) are passed to the app as environment variables, on which 
Kubernetes configuration maps and secrets are mapped to. Thanks to 
this, values are stored nowhere in the app code, companion files or 
database.



Regards


Eric


*From:* django-users@googlegroups.com  
on behalf of Mike Dewhirst 

*Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
*To:* django-users@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: How do I store details securely with django?
On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and
> part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the
> list.
>
> I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
> records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when
> people request access to these services.
>
> I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if
> the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.

I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are
your other assumptions about the threats?

How many sets of credentials will there be?

In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, certificates,
multi factor auth?

If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.

>
> Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?
>
> I would really appreciate some advice.
>
> Regards
>
> Lance
>
>
>

--
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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/VI1P193MB043243D0747282C2D96F60E38CC00%40VI1P193MB0432.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM?utm_medium=email_source=footer>.

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Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Lance Haig]

Hi,

Thanks for responding.

My answers inline


On 11/11/18 11:07 PM, Mike Dewhirst wrote:

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and 
part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the 
list.


I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create 
records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when 
people request access to these services.


I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even 
if the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.


I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are 
your other assumptions about the threats?


How many sets of credentials will there be?



it could potentially be 5 to 10 per admin account




In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, 
certificates, multi factor auth?



These credentials are access details to other clouds.

The application is a user sandbox portal to allow admins to grant X 
number of days access to a cloud for testing and discovery.


It currently is focused on openstack but he roadmap plan is to add 
docker Kubernetes etc..


So I need to have the ability for the cloud admins to add or remove 
authentication details as they are needed.





If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store 
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch 
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you 
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.


I currently use the .env file to hold these credentials but that does 
not scale very well when you need to add more and more.





Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?

I would really appreciate some advice.

Regards

Lance







--
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users" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[PASCUAL Eric]

Hi,


It can depend on which deployment option you plan to use for the application.


For instance, a Docker deployment orchestrated by Kubernetes gives the option 
of using secrets for sensitive information, which a hoster such as GCP manages 
conveniently. In this kind of deployment, configuration (and secrets) are 
passed to the app as environment variables, on which Kubernetes configuration 
maps and secrets are mapped to. Thanks to this, values are stored nowhere in 
the app code, companion files or database.


Regards


Eric


From: django-users@googlegroups.com  on behalf 
of Mike Dewhirst 
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:07:14 PM
To: django-users@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do I store details securely with django?

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and
> part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the
> list.
>
> I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create
> records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when
> people request access to these services.
>
> I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if
> the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.

I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are
your other assumptions about the threats?

How many sets of credentials will there be?

In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, certificates,
multi factor auth?

If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.

>
> Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?
>
> I would really appreciate some advice.
>
> Regards
>
> Lance
>
>
>

--
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: How do I store details securely with django?

[Mike Dewhirst]

On 12/11/2018 12:47 AM, Lance Haig wrote:

Hi,

I have a project I am working on https://github.com/lhaig/usery/ and 
part of the roadmap of the project is to add more cloud types to the 
list.


I wanted to allow admins for these services to login and create 
records for their different clouds in the DB and then use these when 
people request access to these services.


I need to find a secure way to store these credentials so that even if 
the DB is compromised that the credentials are safe.


I agree credentials should not be stored in the database but what are 
your other assumptions about the threats?


How many sets of credentials will there be?

In future, will you be using simple credentials or tokens, certificates, 
multi factor auth?


If this is a prototype and only a few sets are involved you can store 
credentials in a file or one file per set and write a method to fetch 
them as required. That will keep them out of the database and let you 
rejig the method after you have decided how it should really work.




Does anyone have suggestions on how I can accomplish this?

I would really appreciate some advice.

Regards

Lance





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To view this discussion on the web visit 
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