Re: starting point?
In another thread many people (including myself) have recommended Webfaction. It's the same sort of price level as Dreamhost, but much more reliable for Django hosting. In fact they set everything up for you, all you need to do is add your app. -- DR. On 22 Nov, 10:08, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > thanks! > > slicehost sounds nice too. it just is a bit expensive for what i do > (even if it is cheap compared to similar offers). i find virtual > private servers very interesting and i hope such webhosting will > become cheaper once more extreme multicore processors (8 or 16 > cores,...) come out. > > On Nov 21, 10:55 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > dreamhost.com looks quite interesting though. how can they offer 500gb > > > for that price? are they serious and reliable? do they allow > > > subleasing of webspace? > > > I don't recommend Dreamhost as a host for Django applications. They > > are 'serious' and their tech support is usually very helpful, but it > > is an undesirable situation for a couple of reasons. First, they can > > offer their amazing deals by overselling their resources. Second, it > > is shared hosting so the reliability and performance of your machine > > will depend on the other accounts hosted on the same machine, which > > you cannot predict. In that same vein, you simple don't have much > > control of your situation. > > > For example you might want to setup Memcached. Well... you can't. Or > > you might want to use PostgreSQL instead of MySQL... and you can't. > > And you might want to restart Apache... and... you can't. All these > > things are relatively minor, but combined they make for a situation > > that is probably untenable for an important project. > > > There is a newish offer by Dreamhost called DreamHost PS which allows > > you to get guaranteed memory, etc, on the machines you are running on. > > This is something of a step in the right direction, but you're still > > going to be suffering from machines with unpredictable loads from > > other individuals, and the people who I have known who use DreamHost > > PS have not been resoundingly happy. > > > Personally I have had a very pleasant experience using Django on > > Slicehost (http://www.slicehost.com). Essentially you get a virtual > > machine to do whatever you want with, along with no overselling to get > > performance and reliability more predictable. I wrote a howto on > > getting started with Django on Slicehost (http://www.lethain.com/entry/ > > 2007/jul/17/dreamier-dream-server-nginx/), if you go that route. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
thanks! slicehost sounds nice too. it just is a bit expensive for what i do (even if it is cheap compared to similar offers). i find virtual private servers very interesting and i hope such webhosting will become cheaper once more extreme multicore processors (8 or 16 cores,...) come out. On Nov 21, 10:55 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > dreamhost.com looks quite interesting though. how can they offer 500gb > > for that price? are they serious and reliable? do they allow > > subleasing of webspace? > > I don't recommend Dreamhost as a host for Django applications. They > are 'serious' and their tech support is usually very helpful, but it > is an undesirable situation for a couple of reasons. First, they can > offer their amazing deals by overselling their resources. Second, it > is shared hosting so the reliability and performance of your machine > will depend on the other accounts hosted on the same machine, which > you cannot predict. In that same vein, you simple don't have much > control of your situation. > > For example you might want to setup Memcached. Well... you can't. Or > you might want to use PostgreSQL instead of MySQL... and you can't. > And you might want to restart Apache... and... you can't. All these > things are relatively minor, but combined they make for a situation > that is probably untenable for an important project. > > There is a newish offer by Dreamhost called DreamHost PS which allows > you to get guaranteed memory, etc, on the machines you are running on. > This is something of a step in the right direction, but you're still > going to be suffering from machines with unpredictable loads from > other individuals, and the people who I have known who use DreamHost > PS have not been resoundingly happy. > > Personally I have had a very pleasant experience using Django on > Slicehost (http://www.slicehost.com). Essentially you get a virtual > machine to do whatever you want with, along with no overselling to get > performance and reliability more predictable. I wrote a howto on > getting started with Django on Slicehost (http://www.lethain.com/entry/ > 2007/jul/17/dreamier-dream-server-nginx/), if you go that route. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
> dreamhost.com looks quite interesting though. how can they offer 500gb > for that price? are they serious and reliable? do they allow > subleasing of webspace? I don't recommend Dreamhost as a host for Django applications. They are 'serious' and their tech support is usually very helpful, but it is an undesirable situation for a couple of reasons. First, they can offer their amazing deals by overselling their resources. Second, it is shared hosting so the reliability and performance of your machine will depend on the other accounts hosted on the same machine, which you cannot predict. In that same vein, you simple don't have much control of your situation. For example you might want to setup Memcached. Well... you can't. Or you might want to use PostgreSQL instead of MySQL... and you can't. And you might want to restart Apache... and... you can't. All these things are relatively minor, but combined they make for a situation that is probably untenable for an important project. There is a newish offer by Dreamhost called DreamHost PS which allows you to get guaranteed memory, etc, on the machines you are running on. This is something of a step in the right direction, but you're still going to be suffering from machines with unpredictable loads from other individuals, and the people who I have known who use DreamHost PS have not been resoundingly happy. Personally I have had a very pleasant experience using Django on Slicehost (http://www.slicehost.com). Essentially you get a virtual machine to do whatever you want with, along with no overselling to get performance and reliability more predictable. I wrote a howto on getting started with Django on Slicehost (http://www.lethain.com/entry/ 2007/jul/17/dreamier-dream-server-nginx/), if you go that route. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
thanks! i will look into symfony. i don't know yet what i will do. switching webhosters (and talking my customers into it) isn't always that easy... dreamhost.com looks quite interesting though. how can they offer 500gb for that price? are they serious and reliable? do they allow subleasing of webspace? On Nov 21, 5:00 pm, Gabriel Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you are stuck with PHP I recommend Symfony (http://www.symfony- > project.org/). It's the most Django-like PHP framework I've seen. > > On Nov 21, 10:24 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > ok! argh... i don't want to use php anymore... :p is there at least a > > django like framework for php someone can recommend? > > > ...and i came across this now:http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/2407 > > why did someone work on this if django + CGI is quite unusable anyway? > > has anyone tried this and got some performance insights? > > > On Nov 21, 1:27 pm, "James Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 11/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > but what is incredibly slow? :) a second until everything is started > > > > up each time? my apps probably would be quite small and there wouldn't > > > > be many apps. > > > > Thepointis it's not just your apps: Django itself has to be loaded > > > fresh into memory, all the imports have to be dealt with, modules have > > > to be initialized, the per-process application and model caches have > > > to be populated... there's a *ton* of behind-the-scenes work involved > > > in getting a server process up and running with Django, and under CGI > > > you have to do that for every single request you serve. > > > > If CGI is your only option, you will not be able to achieve acceptable > > > performance for a production site, and you should not be using Django, > > > which is designed for environments where mechanisms exist to persist > > > the code in memory over the life of a server process. > > > > -- > > > "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of > > > correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
If you are stuck with PHP I recommend Symfony (http://www.symfony- project.org/). It's the most Django-like PHP framework I've seen. On Nov 21, 10:24 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ok! argh... i don't want to use php anymore... :p is there at least a > django like framework for php someone can recommend? > > ...and i came across this now:http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/2407 > why did someone work on this if django + CGI is quite unusable anyway? > has anyone tried this and got some performance insights? > > On Nov 21, 1:27 pm, "James Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 11/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > but what is incredibly slow? :) a second until everything is started > > > up each time? my apps probably would be quite small and there wouldn't > > > be many apps. > > > Thepointis it's not just your apps: Django itself has to be loaded > > fresh into memory, all the imports have to be dealt with, modules have > > to be initialized, the per-process application and model caches have > > to be populated... there's a *ton* of behind-the-scenes work involved > > in getting a server process up and running with Django, and under CGI > > you have to do that for every single request you serve. > > > If CGI is your only option, you will not be able to achieve acceptable > > performance for a production site, and you should not be using Django, > > which is designed for environments where mechanisms exist to persist > > the code in memory over the life of a server process. > > > -- > > "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of > > correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
ok! argh... i don't want to use php anymore... :p is there at least a django like framework for php someone can recommend? ...and i came across this now: http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/2407 why did someone work on this if django + CGI is quite unusable anyway? has anyone tried this and got some performance insights? On Nov 21, 1:27 pm, "James Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > but what is incredibly slow? :) a second until everything is started > > up each time? my apps probably would be quite small and there wouldn't > > be many apps. > > Thepointis it's not just your apps: Django itself has to be loaded > fresh into memory, all the imports have to be dealt with, modules have > to be initialized, the per-process application and model caches have > to be populated... there's a *ton* of behind-the-scenes work involved > in getting a server process up and running with Django, and under CGI > you have to do that for every single request you serve. > > If CGI is your only option, you will not be able to achieve acceptable > performance for a production site, and you should not be using Django, > which is designed for environments where mechanisms exist to persist > the code in memory over the life of a server process. > > -- > "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
ok, thanks! but what is incredibly slow? :) a second until everything is started up each time? my apps probably would be quite small and there wouldn't be many apps. in case i would like to experiment with it nevertheless, is there a django CGI how-to somewhere? On Nov 21, 10:23 am, "James Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > is it also possible to use django with normal cgi? > > > i think performance wouldn't be a big problem since i only do low > > traffic sites. > > Django does not offer direct support for CGI. The performance problem > is unrelated to traffic; it's the fact that CGI would need to load the > entire framework and all your applications into memory on *every* > request, which means that no matter what your level of traffic, the > response time is going to be incredibly slow. > > -- > "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
On 11/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > is it also possible to use django with normal cgi? > > i think performance wouldn't be a big problem since i only do low > traffic sites. Django does not offer direct support for CGI. The performance problem is unrelated to traffic; it's the fact that CGI would need to load the entire framework and all your applications into memory on *every* request, which means that no matter what your level of traffic, the response time is going to be incredibly slow. -- "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
is it also possible to use django with normal cgi? i think performance wouldn't be a big problem since i only do low traffic sites. On Nov 21, 5:17 am, gmacgregor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Nov 20, 3:08 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > thanks! hopefully my webhoster allows all the needed .htaccess stuff. > > but it sounds promising... > > > how can i figure out if my webhoster uses fastcgi? can this info be > > printed with a simple script? > > Take a look at the documentation surrounding your plan details and if > that fails then contact support... FYI, a list pf Django friendly web > hosts can be found here: > > http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
On Nov 20, 3:08 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > thanks! hopefully my webhoster allows all the needed .htaccess stuff. > but it sounds promising... > > how can i figure out if my webhoster uses fastcgi? can this info be > printed with a simple script? Take a look at the documentation surrounding your plan details and if that fails then contact support... FYI, a list pf Django friendly web hosts can be found here: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
thanks! hopefully my webhoster allows all the needed .htaccess stuff. but it sounds promising... how can i figure out if my webhoster uses fastcgi? can this info be printed with a simple script? On Nov 20, 8:28 pm, "James Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > but what i don't understand yet... if i move this to a webhoster, > > where is the starting point then? isn't there some index.cgi needed or > > so? or how will the server know that a certain url is supposed to be > > handled by django? > > The tutorial simply covers first steps using the dev server; for > production deployment behind a real web server, visit the > documentation index: > > http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/ > > and scroll down to "Deployment". > > -- > "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
Hi Horace, Depending on your webhost, you will need to use fastcgi or mod- python. See http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/Django as an example -- therein are the steps necessary to get Django running on DreamHost, a large webhost that supports fastcgi. Also see http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/modpython/ and http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/fastcgi/. gsf On Nov 20, 2:21 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi, > > i am currently doing the tutorial. i am at the middle of part 3 and > quickly skimmed through the rest of 3 and 4 already. > > so far so good. it works great locally and with django's own simple > server. > > but what i don't understand yet... if i move this to a webhoster, > where is the starting point then? isn't there some index.cgi needed or > so? or how will the server know that a certain url is supposed to be > handled by django? > > ~horace --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: starting point?
On 11/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > but what i don't understand yet... if i move this to a webhoster, > where is the starting point then? isn't there some index.cgi needed or > so? or how will the server know that a certain url is supposed to be > handled by django? The tutorial simply covers first steps using the dev server; for production deployment behind a real web server, visit the documentation index: http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/ and scroll down to "Deployment". -- "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
starting point?
hi, i am currently doing the tutorial. i am at the middle of part 3 and quickly skimmed through the rest of 3 and 4 already. so far so good. it works great locally and with django's own simple server. but what i don't understand yet... if i move this to a webhoster, where is the starting point then? isn't there some index.cgi needed or so? or how will the server know that a certain url is supposed to be handled by django? ~horace --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
