Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Dave Turner]

Messing with xfce sounds like mission-creep to me.
Does xfce need messing with in any way to get rid of systemd dependencies?
Then do it.
Otherwise, leave well alone.

I run debian jessie with systemd on my iMac and my main laptop because 
they need to work.
Just about all packages seem to have many more dependencies than they 
used to.

I don't like it, but for the moment that is how it is.

For 'normal' users xfce is a good choice.
I use xfce fluxbox and ctwm depending on mood, tasks, and hardware.

DaveT


On 29/12/15 18:44, richard lucassen wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:29:21 +0100
Adam Borowski  wrote:


On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 09:46:04AM +0100, richard lucassen wrote:

Please do not forget WindowMaker which has been a lightweight,
highly configurable and stable wm for many years.

I used to swear by it, somewhere around 1998-2000.  Then, out of
nostalgia, I recently given it a look -- and failed to find a
_single_ improvement.

There are some small changes, or "improvements" if you like, but it
worked well in 1997 and it still works well in 2015. The only thing you
can add is bloatware IMHO ;-)


On the other hand, there are regressions -- it
doesn't play well with Debian menu anymore.

You may be right, I have no idea, simply because I don't use the menu.
IIRC there is a Debian menu after a fresh install, bus as I copy the
GNUstep dir right after a fresh install I will probably never know :)

R.



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Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

[Simon Hobson]

Didier Kryn  wrote:

>Down to zero?

Depends on what the system is doing !
I've just checked several of my systems, one showed 12k when I logged in and 
dropped to 0. OK, that's a router so doesn't do much disk I/O - just a bit of 
logging.
Another (my mail server amongst other things) showed 312k when I logged in, and 
while I've been watching it has been down to 16k and up to 920k. Oh, just 
before I hit send, I've just seen this one down to 0 as well.

Even my MythTV server (which is currently recording and commflagging two 
programs) is varying between 1/2M and 9M dirty - oh, just dropped to 136k 
dirty. OK, this is a slightly special case because MythTV fsyncs the recording 
streams about once/second - but the commflagging and database updates that are 
done constantly aren't.

So yes, observation confirms theory that if there is a period of no writes then 
the dirty pages will get written to disk.

>Who "have to wait" ? Apps don't have to: they get the data from cache and 
> write to cache. Maybe the disk-write policy depends on the IO scheduler as 
> the read policy does, but this layer is completely isolated from the 
> applications.

Actually, apps will wait if the underlying system just "doesn't return" from a 
read or write call for a while - a system I used to administer had one 
particular process (an inefficient reporting tool) we could run which resulted 
in 99% to 100% wait i/o system status (and simultaneously causing our phones to 
ring with user complaints as their processes effectively stopped dead).
If you rely on new writes to "push out" old dirty data then there will come a 
time when the underlying system will make the application wait while it makes 
some cache space available - in effect, write performance will become near 
enough identical to having no cache at all. One of the points of combining a 
write cache with a process that flushes it out is to give some "ready and 
waiting" space for intermittent writes. That way, many loads will never have to 
wait for disk as writes will go straight into cache.

>Data was lost and filesystems *were* corrupted, at every such crash until 
> the advent of journalled filesystems. I started to install Reiserfs many 
> years ago to face this problem with crash.

Indeed, but the more dirty data, the higher the risk and effect. There's a 
difference between a few k/M and hundreds of M of lost data. You also have to 
consider the effect of optimisation techniques (either in the OS, disk driver, 
or drive itself) re-ordering writes to maximise performance.
Back to the original subject, once upon a time it was simply a case of "wait 
till the light goes out and then eject the floppy" because the systems didn't 
have a write cache - I'm thinking of "desktop" systems like Mac OS, DOS, early 
Windows etc. Similarly, often the effects of a crash were minimal because 
updates were written straight to disk - I still know people who think nothing 
of pulling the plug to shut down a system simply because "we've always done it 
that way".
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Re: [DNG] Name of the thumb drive automounter

[aitor_czr]

On 12/29/2015 01:00 PM, Emiliano Marini  wrote:

Besides jokes jaam sounds cool:)


+1 :)
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Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

[Simon Hobson]

Didier Kryn  wrote:

>That's the logic one would naively expect but I'm not sure of it. I'm 
> afraid the data remains in the cache and  not backed-up to disk until some 
> process needs room in the cache. You can do the experiment of writing data to 
> a usb memory stick and then wait long after the light has stopped blinking. 
> Then you can either sync or umount the device and it will blink again for  
> some time before the command returns.

Umount will cause some disk-i/o.
But it is normal for dirty pages to be written at some point - and not just 
when the space is needed in cache. You can see this by watching the dirty pages 
value in /proc/meminfo. You can make some dirty pages, and after a while you'll 
see the value go down again.

Not having this cleanup would be a recipe for two things :
1) crap performance that might not be that much better than with no cache. In 
effect, instead of having to wait for your new data to be written, you'd have 
to wait for something else to be written to make room for it. As it is, it's 
not too hard to see this effect with certain workloads.
2) Almost guaranteed filesystem destruction - or at least massive data 
loss/corruption on system crash when the dirty pages don't get written.

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Re: [DNG] Name of the thumb drive automounter

[Go Linux]

On Tue, 12/29/15, aitor_czr  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Name of the thumb drive automounter
 To: "Emiliano Marini" , "Steve Litt" 
, "dng" 
 Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2015, 9:31 AM
 
On 12/29/2015 01:00 PM, Emiliano Marini  wrote:

>> Besides jokes jaam sounds cool :)

> +1 :)



Yup . . . 'Just Another Auto Mounter' gets my vote too

golinux
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Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

[marc]

> Who "have to wait" ? Apps don't have to: they get the data from 
> cache and write to cache. Maybe the disk-write policy depends on the IO 
> scheduler as the read policy does, but this layer is completely isolated 
> from the applications.

Nope - not completely isolated. Applications that actually require 
on-disk consistency invoke things such as fsync(2).

Every year or so there is a random blog post which notices that 
if you truly care about your data, you'd better do fsync(2), fdatasync(2) 
and/or rename(2) in the right places.

If the os has done the write already, then this is pretty much a 
no-op, but if there are loads of stale write buffers your 
application can block until all of those have been written out
and then performance craters.

regards

marc
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[richard lucassen]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:29:21 +0100
Adam Borowski  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 09:46:04AM +0100, richard lucassen wrote:
> > Please do not forget WindowMaker which has been a lightweight,
> > highly configurable and stable wm for many years.
> 
> I used to swear by it, somewhere around 1998-2000.  Then, out of
> nostalgia, I recently given it a look -- and failed to find a
> _single_ improvement.

There are some small changes, or "improvements" if you like, but it
worked well in 1997 and it still works well in 2015. The only thing you
can add is bloatware IMHO ;-)

> On the other hand, there are regressions -- it
> doesn't play well with Debian menu anymore.

You may be right, I have no idea, simply because I don't use the menu.
IIRC there is a Debian menu after a fresh install, bus as I copy the
GNUstep dir right after a fresh install I will probably never know :)

R.

-- 
___
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak
aloud and remove all doubt.

+--+
| Richard Lucassen, Utrecht|
+--+
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Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

[Didier Kryn]

Le 29/12/2015 16:34, Simon Hobson a écrit :

Didier Kryn  wrote:


That's the logic one would naively expect but I'm not sure of it. I'm 
afraid the data remains in the cache and  not backed-up to disk until some 
process needs room in the cache. You can do the experiment of writing data to a 
usb memory stick and then wait long after the light has stopped blinking. Then 
you can either sync or umount the device and it will blink again for  some time 
before the command returns.

Umount will cause some disk-i/o.
But it is normal for dirty pages to be written at some point - and not just 
when the space is needed in cache. You can see this by watching the dirty pages 
value in /proc/meminfo. You can make some dirty pages, and after a while you'll 
see the value go down again.

Down to zero?


Not having this cleanup would be a recipe for two things :
1) crap performance that might not be that much better than with no cache. In 
effect, instead of having to wait for your new data to be written, you'd have 
to wait for something else to be written to make room for it.
Who "have to wait" ? Apps don't have to: they get the data from 
cache and write to cache. Maybe the disk-write policy depends on the IO 
scheduler as the read policy does, but this layer is completely isolated 
from the applications.

  As it is, it's not too hard to see this effect with certain workloads.
2) Almost guaranteed filesystem destruction - or at least massive data 
loss/corruption on system crash when the dirty pages don't get written.

Data was lost and filesystems *were* corrupted, at every such crash 
until the advent of journalled filesystems. I started to install 
Reiserfs many years ago to face this problem with crash.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[aitor_czr]

On 12/29/2015 11:35 PM, richard white  wrote:

Another suggestion would be the Lumina desktop.
>
>http://lumina-desktop.org/
>
>It does not use any of the Linux-based desktop frameworks directly.
>Instead, it relies on one class for communication with the system.
>Which make easy to port.

That sounds*very*  nice. I've never heard it before. Thanks for letting
me know so that when I get some time, I can try it.

SteveT


In Qt5, interesting :)
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Dragan FOSS]

On 12/30/2015 12:03 AM, Didier Kryn wrote:

Out of the description it seems to come out of a Devuan dream, both for
what it provides and for what it doesn't.


You can try, deb packages are there:
http://mirror.org.rs/lumina/

Source:
git clone https://github.com/pcbsd/lumina.git



briefly: light year behind xfce

Cheers,
Dragan
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Re: [DNG] Ian Murdock's Twitter hijacked?

[Wim]

Yes, it's gone.

Probably just a hijacked account. Sorry for the gossip ;-)

Cheers,

Wim

2015-12-30 2:05 GMT+01:00 dev1fanboy :

> page shows as not existing my end
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:27 PM, Teodoro Santoni <
> asbras...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hiya,
> >
> > 2015-12-29 21:08 GMT+01:00, Wim :
> >> Hi List,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure this is really appropriate for this list, but here goes:
> >>
> >> Ian Murdock, one of Debian's founder is threatening via Twitter to
> >> commit
> >> suicide after being beaten by Police twice. See:
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/imurdock
> >>
> >> The most logical thing seems to be some troll hijacked his Twitter
> >> account.
> >> My gut feeling tells me something else.
> >>
> >> You guess is as good as mine. Maybe someone knows him more intimately
> >> and
> >> can contact him.
> >>
> >> The DNS for his blog goes to Google. Also weird.
> >>
> >> Wim
> >>
> >
> > The strange thing is, no clickbait master website is giving attention
> > to this story. Being a seldom follower of twitter, I can say that if
> > you hadn't write here I wouldn't have notice of that.
> >
> > I dunno if it's a troll or what. Fishy, anyway.
> > ___
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Re: [DNG] Ian Murdock's Twitter hijacked?

[dev1fanboy]

page shows as not existing my end

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:27 PM, Teodoro Santoni  
wrote:
> Hiya,
> 
> 2015-12-29 21:08 GMT+01:00, Wim :
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I'm not sure this is really appropriate for this list, but here goes:
>>
>> Ian Murdock, one of Debian's founder is threatening via Twitter to
>> commit
>> suicide after being beaten by Police twice. See:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/imurdock
>>
>> The most logical thing seems to be some troll hijacked his Twitter
>> account.
>> My gut feeling tells me something else.
>>
>> You guess is as good as mine. Maybe someone knows him more intimately
>> and
>> can contact him.
>>
>> The DNS for his blog goes to Google. Also weird.
>>
>> Wim
>>
> 
> The strange thing is, no clickbait master website is giving attention
> to this story. Being a seldom follower of twitter, I can say that if
> you hadn't write here I wouldn't have notice of that.
> 
> I dunno if it's a troll or what. Fishy, anyway.
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Re: [DNG] What's "Armstrong"? (was: Fw: Question: eth0 vs enp1s0)

[Go Linux]

On Tue, 12/29/15, Jim Murphy  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] What's "Armstrong"? (was: Fw: Question: eth0 vs enp1s0)
 To: "dng" 
 Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2015, 6:57 PM

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Rainer Weikusat
 wrote:
> Steve Litt  writes:
>> My response is below the original message. I can't respond on
>> debian-user, because I have Armstrong Syndrome...
>
> I've so far learnt that it's "Don Armstrong" who seems to be a Debian
> maintainer. But that's surely not a household word in itself.
>

Steve sited in a previous thread "Our friendly community" that Armstrong
fixed it so he(Steve) couldn't post there.  I guess you can say he was
"strong armed".  Steve didn't go into details of why.

Jim



Ah . . . those were the days.   Steve and I were very vocal about our 
disapproval of Debian adopting systemd on -user.  Don Armstrong was (maybe 
still is) 'the enforcer'.  I got at least one warning - maybe more.  Steve got 
the boot . . . His description would undoubtedly be more informative and 
entertaining than mine.  :)  

golinux
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Re: [DNG] What's "Armstrong"? (was: Fw: Question: eth0 vs enp1s0)

[Jim Murphy]

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Rainer Weikusat
 wrote:
> Steve Litt  writes:
>> My response is below the original message. I can't respond on
>> debian-user, because I have Armstrong Syndrome...
>
> I've so far learnt that it's "Don Armstrong" who seems to be a Debian
> maintainer. But that's surely not a household word in itself.
>

Steve sited in a previous thread "Our friendly community" that Armstrong
fixed it so he(Steve) couldn't post there.  I guess you can say he was
"strong armed".  Steve didn't go into details of why.

Jim
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 01:10:58PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 10:42:15 -0500
> Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
> > Are there other window
> > managers we could use in the name of minimalism?
> 
> There are approximately one million, three hundred and thirty two
> thousand, one hundred and ninety eight excellent window managers you
> can use in the name of minimalism.
> 
> You know how all email clients suck? Well, almost all window managers
> are great. Go figure.
> 
> For the guy who wants a classic win98 interface (I love these), there's
> LXDE. Rock solid, has all the right stuff and no more: It's wonderful. 
> 
> If you want to go seriously lightweight, jwm is a win98-like interface
> that's light as a feather.
> 
> Right down there between LXDE and jwm is fvwm, whose setup requires
> quite a learning curve, but you can make your fvwm setup work any way
> you want.
> 
> Perhaps you want maximum real estate, with no panel (Windows taskbar).
> twm, fluxbox, blackbox, and my favorite, Openbox, fill that need to a
> Tee. Added status points, because when someone sees you using one of
> these, they *know* you're on a level above Windows and OS/x. Combine it
> with dmenu (described later).
> 
> All the preceding are floating window managers. There are zillions of
> excellent tiling window managers too. I like dwm from Suckless Tools.
> My friend Chris gave a presentation on i9 where he lighting quick
> rearranged things at the keyboard, always having enough room on the
> current app to do his work. There's awesome, supposedly written in Lua
> so you can configure it and give it new capabilities by writing a
> little Lua code.
> 
> Keep in mind that whoever is willing to roll up their sleeves and
> configure can install and integrate dmenu from Suckless Tools on most
> of these window managers, and once dmenu is configured to your hands'
> liking, you'll double or triple your window manager productivity.
> 
> There's absolutely no end to excellent lightweight window managers. Now
> if you're asking which should be the Devuan default, I'd say LXDE,
> because anybody can walk right up to an LXDE interface and start using
> it. It's like a one-panel Xfce with a few less features.

I installed LXDE into my devuan alpha 2 system, but I do not know how 
to ask for it.  My system boots into a green login screen and when I log 
in it starts me off with xfce instead.  In the old days when I ran 
Debian, it would start with a login screen where I could find a menu and 
select a window manager.

I'm arguing for discoverability here.

-- hendrik

> 
> HTH,
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>  of the Successful Technologist
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Ian Murdock's Twitter hijacked?

[Teodoro Santoni]

Hiya,

2015-12-29 21:08 GMT+01:00, Wim :
> Hi List,
>
> I'm not sure this is really appropriate for this list, but here goes:
>
> Ian Murdock, one of Debian's founder is threatening via Twitter to commit
> suicide after being beaten by Police twice. See:
>
> https://twitter.com/imurdock
>
> The most logical thing seems to be some troll hijacked his Twitter account.
> My gut feeling tells me something else.
>
> You guess is as good as mine. Maybe someone knows him more intimately and
> can contact him.
>
> The DNS for his blog goes to Google. Also weird.
>
> Wim
>

The strange thing is, no clickbait master website is giving attention
to this story. Being a seldom follower of twitter, I can say that if
you hadn't write here I wouldn't have notice of that.

I dunno if it's a troll or what. Fishy, anyway.
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:29:21 +0100
Adam Borowski  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 09:46:04AM +0100, richard lucassen wrote:
> > Please do not forget WindowMaker which has been a lightweight,
> > highly configurable and stable wm for many years.  
> 
> I used to swear by it, somewhere around 1998-2000.  Then, out of
> nostalgia, I recently given it a look -- and failed to find a
> _single_ improvement.  On the other hand, there are regressions -- it
> doesn't play well with Debian menu anymore.

A little offtopic, but if you get dmenu hotkeyed from Windowmaker or
any other wm/de, then if your experience is anything like mine, your
need for the Debian Menu will plunge to almost zero.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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[DNG] Ian Murdock's Twitter hijacked?

[Wim]

Hi List,

I'm not sure this is really appropriate for this list, but here goes:

Ian Murdock, one of Debian's founder is threatening via Twitter to commit
suicide after being beaten by Police twice. See:

https://twitter.com/imurdock

The most logical thing seems to be some troll hijacked his Twitter account.
My gut feeling tells me something else.

You guess is as good as mine. Maybe someone knows him more intimately and
can contact him.

The DNS for his blog goes to Google. Also weird.

Wim
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[DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[richard white]

Another suggestion would be the Lumina desktop.

http://lumina-desktop.org/

It does not use any of the Linux-based desktop frameworks directly.
Instead, it relies on one class for communication with the system.
Which make easy to port.

-Rich
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 15:34:20 -0500
richard white  wrote:

> Another suggestion would be the Lumina desktop.
> 
> http://lumina-desktop.org/
> 
> It does not use any of the Linux-based desktop frameworks directly.
> Instead, it relies on one class for communication with the system.
> Which make easy to port.

That sounds *very* nice. I've never heard it before. Thanks for letting
me know so that when I get some time, I can try it.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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[DNG] Windowmaker: was Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 09:46:04 +0100
richard lucassen  wrote:

> Please do not forget WindowMaker which has been a lightweight, highly
> configurable and stable wm for many years.
> 
> R.

Hi Richard,

I've been trying to understand Windowmaker since 1999, and have failed.
That's why I didn't mention it in my list of great window managers: I
figured no Devuaners would be using it.

And yet I have respected friends who like it. And aesthetically it's
very, very nice. And it's supposed to be modeled after NeXTstep, which
is *highly* respected by many people whom I respect.

I've tried about 5 times, over 1.5 decades, to get Windowmaker
functional. By "functional", I mean a state at which I could be
productive. And failed all 5 times.

If you ever create a presentation about Windowmaker, or make a
Windowmaker document, please get me in the loop. I'll tell you all the
rabbit holes I've fallen down, and to the extent possible, I'll tech
edit your presentation or document os John Q. Public can easily create
a productive Windowmaker interface.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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[DNG] What's "Armstrong"? (was: Fw: Question: eth0 vs enp1s0)

[Rainer Weikusat]

Steve Litt  writes:
> My response is below the original message. I can't respond on
> debian-user, because I have Armstrong Syndrome...

I've so far learnt that it's "Don Armstrong" who seems to be a Debian
maintainer. But that's surely not a household word in itself.

?
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 21:30:44 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:


> I installed LXDE into my devuan alpha 2 system, but I do not know how 
> to ask for it.  My system boots into a green login screen and when I
> log in it starts me off with xfce instead.  In the old days when I
> ran Debian, it would start with a login screen where I could find a
> menu and select a window manager.
> 
> I'm arguing for discoverability here.

:-)

I've gotten so used to knowing that you put "exec lxsession" in
your .xinitrc (so startx starts LXDE, there's a different file for
starting from a display manager), that I forgot that yes, people
shouldn't need to rely on folklore handed from father to son to be able
to run their computer.

I think Devuan uses a display manager, and that display manager
*should* have a hoverable icon of some kind that lets you pick your
wm/de. Neckbeard that I am, I kinda wish you didn't have to hover
everything on the screen to discover where you want to go next. 

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Ian Murdock's Twitter hijacked?

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 03:11:48 +0100, Arnt wrote in message 
<20151230031148.2e327...@nb6.lan>:

> Hum,
> 
> ..have I seen this before?: http://dilbert.com/strip/2012-09-27
> 
> ..todays translation: http://heltnormalt.no/dilbert/2015/12/29
> 
> ..key to improved relevance: https://translate.google.com/ ;o)
> 

..are we trigger happy today; the key to improved relevance: 
https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/tvilsomme%20ting%0Aforskjellige%20tvilsomme%20ting%0Adenne%20tvilsomme%20planen

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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[DNG] amounter 0.2.0-alpha released

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

You can grab the Amounter thumb drive automounter from
https://github.com/stevelitt/amounter . Be careful: This code works for
me, but it *does* do unmounts and rmdirs, and it's alpha quality code,
so I'd test it first on a less important computer.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Didier Kryn]

Le 28/12/2015 12:59, Mitt Green a écrit :
I'd suggest to have the following applications by default (by 
categories from Applications Menu):


1) Accessories: xarchiver, xfce4-appfinder, mousepad;
2) Games: xlennart :)
3) Graphics: ristretto;
4) Internet: iceweasel, transmission-gtk, xchat, netman or dhcpcd-gtk;
5) Multimedia: parole, xfce4-mixer, xfburn;
6) Office: zathura;
7) System: gparted, synaptic.


Hey Mitt, it's about xfce-desktop-lite, not xfce-desktop-bloat :-)


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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[richard lucassen]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:45:26 +0900
Hughe Chung  wrote:

> Debian installer offers four major DEs as an option: GNOME, KDE,
> Xfce, LXDE.
> 
> For a decade, I've been using Fluxbox as window manager. I have no 
> intend to change any window manager over Fluxbox unless there is 
> significant benefit from it.
> 
> Debian users are scarce nowadays. Even in Debian community hanful of 
> developers and users honor the FOSS idealogy. The rest seems to
> little care or to follow the decision without questioning.
> 
> How many users who move into Devuan expect full DE installation?  I 
> think providing one or two light DE as option will be fine. Also
> Devuan needs to select DEs that have minimal to no infection by the
> systemd monster.

Please do not forget WindowMaker which has been a lightweight, highly
configurable and stable wm for many years.

R.

-- 
___
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak
aloud and remove all doubt.

+--+
| Richard Lucassen, Utrecht|
+--+
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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Didier Kryn]

Le 28/12/2015 21:35, Mitt Green a écrit :

Editor war will never end even though everybody knows that vi(m)
is the best.


Please stop the war.

Anyway a text editor is off topic here. It has nothing to do with a 
desktop environment.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

[Adam Borowski]

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 09:46:04AM +0100, richard lucassen wrote:
> Please do not forget WindowMaker which has been a lightweight, highly
> configurable and stable wm for many years.

I used to swear by it, somewhere around 1998-2000.  Then, out of nostalgia,
I recently given it a look -- and failed to find a _single_ improvement.  On
the other hand, there are regressions -- it doesn't play well with Debian
menu anymore.

-- 
A tit a day keeps the vet away.
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Re: [DNG] Name of the thumb drive automounter

[Emiliano Marini]

Besides jokes jaam sounds cool :)

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Chandler Wise 
wrote:

> I still prefer JAAM though... :P
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 9:07 PM, dev1fanboy 
> wrote:
>
>> the 'd' would be a little annoying, but many programs use a joke in the
>> name
>>
>> I thought a-mount because it's similar to pmount and would not seem out
>> of place
>>
>> On Monday, December 28, 2015 11:19 PM, Emiliano Marini <
>> emilianomarin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > amountd LOL
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:36 PM, dev1fanboy > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> only that "amount" (a-mount) would sound better
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Monday, December 28, 2015 6:29 PM, Steve Litt <
>> >> sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >
>> >> > If anybody sees a compelling reason not to call the automounter
>> >> > "amounter", please speak now or forever hold your peace.
>> >> >
>> >> > SteveT
>> >> >
>> >> > Steve Litt
>> >> > November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>> >> >  of the Successful Technologist
>> >> > http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>> >> > ___
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>> >> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
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