Re: [DNG] netman: adding adequate help

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi,

The manpage's source file, netman.1, is ready and I also added
netman.1.gz to netman's sources. I can instruct netman-backend.install
to copy netman.1.gz to /usr/share/man/man1.

What should I do?

Edward
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Re: [DNG] netman: adding adequate help

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi,

I think, the manpage should be part of netman-backend as this is a
dependency of netman-gui.

Where in the source's tree should I place the source for the manpage
and in what format should this file be? I can manually create a
netman-backend.manpages file.

Edward

On 30/01/2016, Rainer Weikusat  wrote:
> Edward Bartolo  writes:
>> I can now view the newly created netman page using the command:
>> groff -man -Tascii ./netman-0.1.1/netman0.1.1.man | less
>>
>> The man page looks correct. Now the question is: How am I going to add
>> the man page to my netman project?
>
> The file should have a section number as extensions, presumaby 1 (user
> commands) in your case. According to the documentation for that
> (dh_installman(1)), a file debian/.manpages listing all
> man pages can be used to have them installed automatically.
>
> BTW: The command
>
> man -l 
>
> can be used to format and display a man page from some 'local' file
> instead of from the man pages directory tree.
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Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Ozi Traveller]

+1 yes please!

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Rainer H. Rauschenberg <
rain...@wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>
> > ..as a first step, we should mimick qubes-os.org sans systemd
> > and/or pc etc hardware, so we can see and learn etc how etc
> > systemd does what it does in qubes-os, Debian, Tails, Whonix,
> > JohnDoe, etc so we can come up with ways to e.g. prevent systemd
> > subversion of privacy and mass systemd bank robberies.
>
> As a first step we all should focus on releasing devuan. Period.
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Re: [DNG] Never say that again: was Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

[hellekin]

On 01/28/2016 01:16 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

 ..small fish, nice tits. ;o)
>>>
>>> The preceding half sentence is one example of something that should
>>> NEVER appear in any Devuan venue. Ever.
>>>
> 
>
> ..either way,
>

I'm sorry to tell you, Arnt Karlsen, that the only correct answer you
should have made is to apologize for this sexist, thoughtless, idiotic
comment.

==
hk

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Re: [DNG] xserver-xorg-core in Debian unstable now requires libsystemd0

[Daniel Reurich]

On 29/01/16 23:07, richard lucassen wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:54:22 +

> I'm very pleased to see that someone is building a libsystemdfree 
> xorg.

> But what about security updates?

We will track debians security updates and where an update to a package
that we maintain comes out, we will release a security patch for our
package.  I'm keen to see if we can collaborate directly with debians
security team on this and in return help with security for both
distro's.  We would like our own security team though, so any volunteers
should get in touch #devuan-security is the irc channel, and email me
about further details.

> And what about future versions?  Who is going to do that?
Post release 1.0 we will start working more on the organisational side
and put together various teams to organise releases, security,
infrastructure management etc.

> What about the robustness of Devuan?
At the moment it's robustness is pretty tightly tied to what goes on in
Debian, and for stable this works very well.  For testing unstable,
experimental this is harder and we will need to largely rely on
automatations to keep track and prevent breakage.

> Don't get me wrong, I really like the Devuan project, but wouldn't it
> be better to create a "systemv.debian.org", a sub version of debian,
> like the "backports.debian.org"? If Devuan is part of the Debian
> project, we will have much more influence on what's going on. Maybe
> it's better to build an extension to Debian than to build our own
> infrastructure.

I think this is pretty much impossible because Debian is broken from the
top down.  It no longer cares about the users and is now clearly
developer egocentric.  The users who aren't DD's are without voice and
voting power.  This is where Debian has failed, because it's developers
have lost sight of the heart of what Debian was from a social and
collaborative and community oriented project to one that has become a
self sustaining bureaucracy which will continue to operate even if there
is nobody using it.  It's as if they think that users are just an
annoyance...

> 
> I fear many people won't agree with me, but I think it's better to 
> cooperate with Debian than to fight Debian.

We can cooperate with them where there is benefit, but many attempts to
engage at various levels has resulted in insult and derision.

> Debian has a nice infrastructure. If we will be able to build a 
> Debian extension and not a Debian fork, I think we can all win.

There's nothing particularly interesting in their infrastructure that we
can't replicate relatively easily, the biggest resource issue being time.

> On one side we will be able to use Debian's infrastructure and have 
> influence on what's going on there, on the other side Debian will 
> have a nice and fully supported non-systemd version.

You seem to have forgotten just how much anomosity there was during the
last days around the GR failure and the decision to fork.

Debian as a project doesn't want a "fully supported non-systemd
version".  If it did, we wouldn't have needed to fork.


-- 
Daniel Reurich
Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722



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Re: [DNG] Never say that again: was Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

[hellekin]

On 01/27/2016 07:27 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> We anti-systemd people are already a tiny minority.
>

Indeed, Steve, *you* are.

I'm not anti-systemd.  Systemd has the right to exist, like slugs, bugs,
rats, bullshit, bad coffee, or cyanide.  I just don't want to have
anything to do with it, and systemd should respect that choice.

My opinion on systemd has nothing to do with "we."  It has more to do
with "not interested."  Therefore I'm going to add a filter that trashes
threads mentioning systemd at all, and I urge you to do the same,
because Devuan is not about systemd, but about freedom of choice.
Obviously people who want systemd already have that choice, and it's not
related to this mailing list.

==
hk

-- 
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Re: [DNG] Never say that again: was Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 12:23:02 +, hellekin wrote in message 
<56acab26.8070...@dyne.org>:

> On 01/27/2016 07:27 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > 
> > We anti-systemd people are already a tiny minority.
> >
> 
> Indeed, Steve, *you* are.
> 
> I'm not anti-systemd.  Systemd has the right to exist, like slugs,
> bugs, rats, bullshit, bad coffee, or cyanide.  I just don't want to
> have anything to do with it, and systemd should respect that choice.

...but doesn't.

> My opinion on systemd has nothing to do with "we."  It has more to do
> with "not interested."  Therefore I'm going to add a filter that
> trashes threads mentioning systemd at all, and I urge you to do the
> same, because Devuan is not about systemd, but about freedom of
> choice. Obviously people who want systemd already have that choice,
> and it's not related to this mailing list.

..one of several problems with that approach, is you will miss e.g.
warnings etc info on systemd sabotage on Devuan etc non-systemd 
distros and on our future clientele, e.g. newspapers, banks, etc.
Not a worry this month though. ;o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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[DNG] systemd is haunting me

[Haines Brown]

I have been running Debian Sid on a laptop with a purged systemd for
quite a few months. Maybe when I now ran # aptitude update or
safe-upgrade for the first time after several months since the Sid
installation systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless interface
from wlan0 to wlp3s0.

Changing the entry in /etc/network/interfaces fixed that problem. So now
I could do a wireless aptitude update and safe-upgrade.

Even though in /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd I have:

  Package: "systemd"
  Pin: origin ""
  Pin-Priority: -1

Systemd was re-installed. Why didn't this systemd file prevent it?

Then I found that while root can run starx with no problem, when user
does it the desktop comes up frozen along with mouse and keyboard
input. I found this:

  $ cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
(EE) systemd-logind: failed to gete session: The name \
  org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service  \
  files.

Systemd is not on the system, so where did systemd-logind come from? How
can I block it and recover a usable virtual desktop for user?

Haines Brown
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Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

[Go Linux]

On Sat, 1/30/16, Haines Brown  wrote:

 Subject: [DNG] systemd is haunting me
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Saturday, January 30, 2016, 6:26 PM
 
I have been running Debian Sid on a laptop with a purged systemd for
quite a few months. Maybe when I now ran # aptitude update or
safe-upgrade for the first time after several months since the Sid
installation systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless interface
from wlan0 to wlp3s0.

Changing the entry in /etc/network/interfaces fixed that problem. So now
I could do a wireless aptitude update and safe-upgrade.

Even though in /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd I have:

  Package: "systemd"
  Pin: origin ""
  Pin-Priority: -1

Systemd was re-installed. Why didn't this systemd file prevent it?

Then I found that while root can run starx with no problem, when user
does it the desktop comes up frozen along with mouse and keyboard
input. I found this:

  $ cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
(EE) systemd-logind: failed to gete session: The name \
  org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service  \
  files.

Systemd is not on the system, so where did systemd-logind come from? How
can I block it and recover a usable virtual desktop for user?

Haines Brown




I'm suffering this curse also.  I am just now upgrading Jessie and something 
wants to pull in libsystemd0.  I have no idea what.  Needless to say, I am NOT 
going to install it. Unfortunately, Devuan's version of whack-a-mole is only 
going to accelerate.  We're going to be overrun if we don't get more hands on 
deck . . . 

golinux
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Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:05:02 +0100 (CET), Rainer wrote in message 
:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> > ..as a first step, we should mimick qubes-os.org sans systemd 
> > and/or pc etc hardware, so we can see and learn etc how etc 
> > systemd does what it does in qubes-os, Debian, Tails, Whonix, 
> > JohnDoe, etc so we can come up with ways to e.g. prevent systemd 
> > subversion of privacy and mass systemd bank robberies. 
> 
> As a first step we all should focus on releasing devuan. Period.

..I mostly disagree, a devuan qubes-os flavor will be a small 
subset of the full release, and a very handy tool for people 
stuck on e.g. Debian Wheezy. 

..but if we are close enough to a full release, go for it. 

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

[Mitt Green]

‎Haines Brown wrote:

>systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless interface
>f‎rom wlan0 to wlp3s0.

I highly recommend to use udev from Wheezy/Jessie on Unstable
and pin the package ("apt hold udev"). Vdev one day will be our
default device manager anyway.

The correct way to prevent a package from being installed in
Unstable/Ceres:

=
‎
Package: [package name] 
Pin: release a=* [or o=*]
Pin-Priority: -1 

=


>Systemd is not on the system, so where did systemd-logind come from?

systemd-logind is provided by systemd package.


Cheers,
Mitt
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Re: [DNG] xserver-xorg-core in Debian unstable now requires libsystemd0

[Robert Storey]

> From: Clarke Sideroad 
> To: "dng@lists.dyne.org" 
> Subject: Re: [DNG] xserver-xorg-core in Debian unstable now requires
> libsystemd0
> Message-ID: <56ac51e1.6020...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> In a similar vein Calculate Linux has IMO well put together group of
> versions based on and compliant with Gentoo with rather elaborate Layman
> overlays, openRC, eudev and no systemd.
> Simple setup and install, probably easier than Debian, the install
> process does not take long unlike the parent Gentoo.
> It also has an updater.
> If one uses the somewhat frowned upon Porthole package manager things
> are almost as easy as Synaptic or at least like Synaptic you can quickly
> see what is available.
> Other Gentoo Layman overlays can be added, but of course at that point
> one must be more careful as it is similar to adding outside repositories
> in a Debian based distro

Thanks for mentioning Calculate Linux. While waiting for Devuan to be
released, I've been looking for something else non-systemd to play with. At
the moment, I'm getting by with antiX, but Calculate could be interesting.
I'm downloading Calculate right now, and at some point I'll write up my
experience with it

Again, still hoping to see a Devuan beta soon. Also waiting for a
devastating zero-day exploit that will leave the systemd tribe with egg on
their faces...not that I'd really want to see that, cough, cough.

cheers,
Robert
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Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:26:48 -0500, Haines wrote in message 
<20160131002648.gg8...@engels.historicalmaterialism.info>:

> I have been running Debian Sid on a laptop with a purged systemd for
> quite a few months. Maybe when I now ran # aptitude update or
> safe-upgrade for the first time after several months since the Sid
> installation systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless
> interface from wlan0 to wlp3s0.
> 
> Changing the entry in /etc/network/interfaces fixed that problem. So
> now I could do a wireless aptitude update and safe-upgrade.
> 
> Even though in /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd I have:
> 
>   Package: "systemd"
>   Pin: origin ""
>   Pin-Priority: -1
> 
> Systemd was re-installed. Why didn't this systemd file prevent it?
> 
> Then I found that while root can run starx with no problem, when user
> does it the desktop comes up frozen along with mouse and keyboard
> input. I found this:
> 
>   $ cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
> (EE) systemd-logind: failed to gete session: The name \
>   org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service  \
>   files.
> 
> Systemd is not on the system, so where did systemd-logind come from?
> How can I block it and recover a usable virtual desktop for user?

..we used to have a "--what-provides" search flag somewhere,
man -k, man dpkg-query, man apt-file, man apt-cache etc did
not turn up anything ringing any bells for me, so I tried:
https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents=systemd-logind=filename=unstable=any
 ?

..I like this a lot better: http://wiki.grml.org/doku.php?id=debian

..can we trust these anymore?
https://packages.debian.org , http://packages.ubuntu.com/ and 
https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkg_basics.en.html

..other ideas: 
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/198009/what-provides-etc-exports-and-how-do-i-find-that-out
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Debian+%22what-provides%22
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=linux+%22what-provides%22

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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[DNG] Wifi device names: was systemd is haunting me

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:26:48 -0500
Haines Brown  wrote:

> I have been running Debian Sid on a laptop with a purged systemd for
> quite a few months. Maybe when I now ran # aptitude update or
> safe-upgrade for the first time after several months since the Sid
> installation systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless
> interface from wlan0 to wlp3s0.

I hereby donate the following shellscript to the public domain:


#!/bin/sh
if test "$#" == "0"; then
  lineno="1"
else
  lineno=$1
fi

ip link | \
  cut -d ' ' -f2 | \
  grep ^w | \
  sed -e "s/:\s*$//" | \
  head -n $lineno | \
  tail -n 1



After naming the preceding shellscript get_wifi_dev.sh, I ran it an ip
command diagnostic and get_wifi_dev.sh, and here is what happened:



[slitt@mydesk ~]$ ip link | cut -d ' ' -f1-3 | grep "^\S"
1: lo: 
2: enp3s0: 
3: wlp0s18f2u5: 
[slitt@mydesk ~]$ mydev=`get_wifi_dev.sh`
[slitt@mydesk ~]$ echo $mydev
wlp0s18f2u5
[slitt@mydesk ~]$


If you suspect you have more than one wifi device, you can specify
which one with a numeric argument to get_wifi_dev.sh, where 1 gets you
the first wifi device reported by ip link, 2 gets the second, and so
on. If your argument is greater than the number of wifi devices, it
just reports the last one reported by ip link.

So regardless of how crazy your wifi device naming gets, you can put
your device's name in a simple and memorable environment variable.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

[Mitt Green]

Go Linux wrote:>Needless to say, I am NOT going to install it.Why not then pin libsystemd0 two times,both "old APT" and "new APT (>1.1)" ways?As we have been discussing pinning for a while now,you probably have seen the "new way."Avoiding libsystemd0 without angband.pl repos isnot possible yet though.PS I didn't receive the message, I am replying to, again.I will probably use protonmail.ch again, when they willmove out of beta-stage on February 18. Right now accessingit costs a lot of pressure; you have to enter two passwordsevery time you close the tab with it. Needless to say, you can't use it in a client. Their mobile and desktop appsare in development though.Farewell,Mitt
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Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:26:48 -0500
Haines Brown  wrote:

> I have been running Debian Sid on a laptop with a purged systemd for
> quite a few months. Maybe when I now ran # aptitude update or
> safe-upgrade for the first time after

[snip]

> Systemd is not on the system, so where did systemd-logind come from?
> How can I block it and recover a usable virtual desktop for user?

I'm not a package manager whisperer so I can't answer your question.
But what would happen if you simply backed up the laptop's data and
installed a clean Devuan on it? I'd imagine Devuan would be much more
capable of remaining systemd-free than would any Debian, especially Sid.

If your reason for Sid is you need new apps, you might consider a
rolling release like Funtoo, Gentoo, Void, Spark (sans-systemd Arch),
Manjaro-OpenRC and the like. I'm running Void right now, and check out
my apps:

==
[slitt@mydesk ~]$ uname -a
Linux mydesk 4.3.3_2 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Dec 23 07:55:09 UTC 2015 x86_64
GNU/Linux
[slitt@mydesk ~]$ firefox -v
Mozilla Firefox 43.0.4
[slitt@mydesk ~]$
==

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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