Re: [DNG] Memory management strategies.

2016-01-31 Thread Rainer Weikusat 
Hendrik Boom  writes:

[...]

> After thet there are probably a variety of data structures that can 
> keep track of all the allocations and free spaces.  on the Lnuxes I've 
> been using, malloc seems to keep its administrative data far removed 
> from the memory it is allocating.  So although it's easy to clobber 
> one's data structures by indexing slightlly out of bounds one is 
> less likely to clobber malloc's administrative data.

The 8 byte immediately in front of the allocated address are seemingly
used to hold the block size. Running this program with an argument of
256 cause free to make noises about heap corruption on my system.

-
#include 

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
char *p;

p = malloc(atoi(argv[1]));
p[-7] = 0;
free(p);

return 0;
}
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Go Linux 
On Sun, 1/31/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Sunday, January 31, 2016, 11:20 AM
 
>  Subject: Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Date: Sunday, January 31, 2016, 10:17 AM
> 
> Le 31/01/2016 02:18, Go Linux a écrit :
>
> >I am just now upgrading Jessie and something wants to pull in 
> > libsystemd0.  I have no idea what.
>
>  I made some trials.
>
>  On Devuan Alpha2, libsystemd0 is required by (at least) policykit
> and gvfs.
>
>  - gvfs is necessary if you want xfce4 to show an icon on the
> desktop when you plug in a removable media.
>
>  - policykit and policykit-gnome are necessary if you want to run
> synaptic from xfce4's menu.
>
>  Didier
>
> 
>
> The operative qualifier being 'at least'.  Just for giggles, I tried to 
> remove it and got this thrown at me:
>
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   acpi-fakekey avidemux avidemux-plugins ca-certificates-java default-jre
>   default-jre-headless dvdstyler ffmpeg gimp gnome-orca gvfs gvfs-backends
>   gvfs-daemons libasound2-plugins libavdevice56 libespeak1 libgegl-0.2-0
>   liblavplay-2.1-0 libmikmod3 libmjpegtools-dev libpulse-dev
>   libpulse-mainloop-glib0 libpulse0 libsdl-image1.2 libsdl-sound1.2
>   libsdl-sound1.2-dev libsdl1.2-dev libsdl1.2debian libsystemd0 libxine2-x
>   mjpegtools mplayer2 openjdk-7-jre openjdk-7-jre-headless packagekit
>   packagekit-tools sane-utils smplayer smplayer-l10n smplayer-themes
>   speech-dispatcher speech-dispatcher-audio-plugins vlc xine-ui
>
> What a mess!  Just how do you fix that!!  (Rhetorical question btw) 

With some significant risk, you could take out libsystemd0, let it do
its worst, and then try -- one at a time -- reinstalling the deleted
packages that you really need, one at a time.  it's just possible that
some of these packages have alternative dependencies and that they can
be made to work by installing different dependencies from wht you
originally hadx.

> -- hendriik



hendriik and Rainer,

I'm not going to be doing anything risky atm because I'm still trying to get 
the window themes finished for the beta.

I have very few of the packages installed that are listed in # apt-cache 
rdepends libsystemd0:

# apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0
libsystemd0
Reverse Depends:
  tor
  pulseaudio
  libpulse0
  mpd
  knot-libs
  knot
  apt-cacher-ng
  weston
  transmission-daemon
  tgt
  systemd-dbg
  systemd
  python3-systemd
  libsystemd-dev
  syslog-ng-core
  stunnel4
  spice-vdagent
  sane-utils
  remctl-server
  realmd
  php5-fpm
  packagekit
  onak
  nsca-ng-server
  network-manager
  libmutter0e
  monopd
  mate-session-manager
  mate-screensaver
  light-locker
  libvirt0
  libvirt-daemon-system
  libvirt-daemon
  libvirt-clients
  libguestfs0
  lbcd
  knot-libs
  knot
  iodine
  inn
  libghc-libsystemd-journal-dev
  gvfs-daemons
  gnome-system-monitor
  gnome-shell
  gnome-session-bin
  gnome-screensaver
  gnome-logs
  gnome-disk-utility
  libgdm1
  gdm3
  fcgiwrap
  erlang-base-hipe
  erlang-base
  clamav-daemon
  cinnamon-settings-daemon
  cinnamon-session
  cinnamon-screensaver
  beanstalkd
  apt-cacher-ng
  acpi-fakekey
  libaccountsservice0
  mpd

I was rather shocked (and annoyed) to see that pulseaudio was installed with 
the default alpha2 xfce desktop and I think that is a likely source of the 
problem.  I have been checking dependencies as I install packages and I didn't 
catch any so maybe it was something in the alpha itself that spawned those deps.

golinux
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 31/01/2016 23:59, Go Linux a écrit :

So how did packagekit get in there?

I'm afraid it was recommended by rox-filer.

Didier

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Never say that again: was Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

2016-01-31 Thread KatolaZ 
On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 12:15:40PM +, hellekin wrote:
> On 01/28/2016 01:16 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
>  ..small fish, nice tits. ;o)
> >>>
> >>> The preceding half sentence is one example of something that should
> >>> NEVER appear in any Devuan venue. Ever.
> >>>
> > 
> >
> > ..either way,
> >
> 
> I'm sorry to tell you, Arnt Karlsen, that the only correct answer you
> should have made is to apologize for this sexist, thoughtless, idiotic
> comment.
> 

+1

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
[ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
[ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Haines Brown 
I was asked why I do not run Devuan rather than Sid on the laptop. When
I installed Sid, Devuan was not even in Alpha. I am not anxious to
reinstall Sid, but but when Devuan beta comes out I'll install it.

Mitt Green pointed out that the /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd script
I've been using is incorrect. Perhaps this is why I acquired
systemd-udevd and sysdend-logind even without systemd.

I suspect I could remove the /lib/systemd/ directory entirely, and it
might block any systemd-udev from changing network interface name, and
systemd=logind from freezing user's frozen desktop.

So let me ask: if I delete the directory and its contents, will I still
have a functioning Sid system?

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Rainer Weikusat 
Haines Brown  writes:
> I have been running Debian Sid on a laptop with a purged systemd for
> quite a few months. Maybe when I now ran # aptitude update or
> safe-upgrade for the first time after several months since the Sid
> installation systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless interface
> from wlan0 to wlp3s0.

This comes from another attempt at using udev device renaming facilities
in order to work around udev device re-ordering with a couple of "be
nice to Dell" gimmicks thrown in (the guy who originally implemented
'encode bus layout in network device name' for Fedora had a @dell.com
e-mail address). Since that's a totally braindead idea only a hardware
clown could ever come up with[*], the best course of action would seem
to be to disable this. Reportedly, the boot parameter

net.ifnames=0

does that.

[*] The kernel is supposed to provide an abstract programming interface
for the available hardware such that it's easily possible to write
software which is at least portable to different computers running
the same OS. But unfortunately, the days of FORTRAN being considered
the abstract programming interface of IBM 704 mainframes and IBM 704
mainframes only haven't ended everywhere and the systemd guys aren't
the only people who are generally pissed of by every bit of
technical progress which happened since ca 1965[**].

[**] Weren't it for the current popularity of ARM, someone would likely
 have considered to implement the whole piece of Brobdingnagian
 precision mechanic in "hand-optimized x86 machine code" instead of
 C ...

[...]

> Then I found that while root can run starx with no problem, when user
> does it the desktop comes up frozen along with mouse and keyboard
> input.

Debian has chosen to disable setuid-execution of the X server to make
the system more secure against unwarranted intrusions of the person who
wrongly believes to own it. Reportedly, the xserver-org-legacy package
can be installed to fix this.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] netman: adding adequate help

2016-01-31 Thread Edward Bartolo 
Hi,

I have just 'git pushed' the netman changes to support a manpage. Now,
using 'man netman' displays netman's help in the form a manpage.

Edward

On 30/01/2016, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The manpage's source file, netman.1, is ready and I also added
> netman.1.gz to netman's sources. I can instruct netman-backend.install
> to copy netman.1.gz to /usr/share/man/man1.
>
> What should I do?
>
> Edward
>
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Florian Zieboll 
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:23:50 +0300
Mitt Green  wrote:

> Why not then pin libsystemd0 two times,
> both "old APT" and "new APT (>1.1)" ways?

The new syntax works fine on my Jessie systems, no need for double
entries.

> Avoiding libsystemd0 without angband.pl repos is
> not possible yet though.

Yes, it is. I was a bit surprised myself when I checked my Jessie
laptop again some days ago, but it is does definitely not run any
systemd components - with only the Devuan mirror and Debian security in
the sources.list and no "orphaned" packages from other repos installed:



root@nullmobil:~# lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Devuan
Description:Devuan GNU/Linux 1.0 (jessie)
Release:1.0
Codename:   jessie
root@nullmobil:~# 



root@nullmobil:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list*
deb http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main non-free contrib
deb-src http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main non-free contrib

# jessie-updates
deb http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free 
deb-src 
http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free

# backports
#deb http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports main contrib non-free 
#deb-src http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports main contrib 
non-free

# debian security
deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free

# angband.pl
#deb http://angband.pl/debian/ nosystemd main
cat: /etc/apt/sources.list.d: Is a directory
root@nullmobil:~# 



root@nullmobil:~# aptitude -F %p search '~i' | xargs -l1 apt-cache policy | 
grep tp\:\/\/ | grep -ve de.mirror.devuan.org -e security.debian.org 
root@nullmobil:~#



root@nullmobil:~# aptitude search '~i' | grep systemd
root@nullmobil:~# 



Please tell me what I miss here... It is running sysv-init with XDM
and DWM / JWM and all the "major components" like dbus, udev and even
cups.

BTW, I just noticed that the "%O" switch for "aptitude -F" does not
work, neither on my Devuan systems nor on Debian Jessie. It would be
nice if someone would confirm this, before I file a bug report. 
While e.g.
  $ aptitude -F "%p%s" search '?installed'
works as expected,
  $ aptitude -F "%p%O" search '?installed'
doesn't even start to initialize and returns immediately, without output.

Ahoi,

Florian

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] Memory management strategies.

2016-01-31 Thread Edward Bartolo 
Hi,

Lately, I have been pondering how memory managers deal with a
situation, when memory is fragmented with scattered allocated blocks,
in the event a memory allocation request, is made for a memory chunk,
whose size is bigger than the  biggest unallocated contiguous memory
chunk.

In a situation similar to the one mentioned, my temptation is to opt
to using linked lists, so as to avoid requiring large unallocated
contiguous memory blocks. However, this increases the overall
processing load which tends to slow whatever program using such a
model.

The question is how do memory managers succeed to remain efficient and
yet cope with memory allocation of so many different sizes?

Edward
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Can I create other projects on git.devuan.org besides netman?

2016-01-31 Thread hellekin 
On 01/31/2016 03:38 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Since space on servers costs money I am asking whether I am allowed to
> create other project on git.devuan.org?
> 

Everyone has 10 projects by default.  Did you reach that limit already?

==
hk

-- 
 _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 31/01/2016 02:18, Go Linux a écrit :

   I am just now upgrading Jessie and something wants to pull in libsystemd0.  
I have no idea what.

I made some trials.

On Devuan Alpha2, libsystemd0 is required by (at least) policykit 
and gvfs.


- gvfs is necessary if you want xfce4 to show an icon on the 
desktop when you plug in a removable media.


- policykit and policykit-gnome are necessary if you want to run 
synaptic from xfce4's menu.


Didier

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Can I create other projects on git.devuan.org besides netman?

2016-01-31 Thread Edward Bartolo 
Hi Hallekin,

I only have netman. As said in my opening post, I wanted to know what
is the policy as server space costs money.

Edward

On 31/01/2016, hellekin  wrote:
> On 01/31/2016 03:38 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Since space on servers costs money I am asking whether I am allowed to
>> create other project on git.devuan.org?
>>
>
> Everyone has 10 projects by default.  Did you reach that limit already?
>
> ==
> hk
>
> --
>  _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
> (_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread fsmithred 
On 01/31/2016 05:57 AM, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:23:50 +0300
> Mitt Green  wrote:
>> Avoiding libsystemd0 without angband.pl repos is
>> not possible yet though.
> 
> Yes, it is. I was a bit surprised myself when I checked my Jessie
> laptop again some days ago, but it is does definitely not run any
> systemd components - with only the Devuan mirror and Debian security in
> the sources.list and no "orphaned" packages from other repos installed:
> 
> 

Same here. I have xfce and lightdm with no outside repos, no libsystemd0
and no package with systemd anywhere in the name. The only limitation I've
run across is that I can't install gvfs, so there's no pop-up icon on the
desktop when I plug in a usb stick. Life is good.

fsr

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Mitt Green 
Flor‎ian Zieboll wrote:‎

>The new syntax works fine on my Jessie systems, no need for
>double e‎ntries.

Nice :)

>It is running sysv-init with XDM
>and DWM / JWM and all the "major components"
>like dbus, udev and even cups.

You may even want to remove dbus package, if there is no
dependency on it. dwm is, by the way, made by
suckless.org, those mates are known for their
minimalistic approach in writing code and their attitude to
systemd in particular, even having a section about it on
the site. They surely read this list :)

To be honest, I removed aptitude in the very early days
of my Debian experience and have never installed it again.
APT and dpkg do the job great for me, I very rarely open 
Synaptic. Deborphan is nice to manage retained
unnecessary packages and configurations.


My €0.02,
Mitt
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Memory management strategies.

2016-01-31 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 02:28:57PM +0100, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Lately, I have been pondering how memory managers deal with a
> situation, when memory is fragmented with scattered allocated blocks,
> in the event a memory allocation request, is made for a memory chunk,
> whose size is bigger than the  biggest unallocated contiguous memory
> chunk.
> 
> In a situation similar to the one mentioned, my temptation is to opt
> to using linked lists, so as to avoid requiring large unallocated
> contiguous memory blocks. However, this increases the overall
> processing load which tends to slow whatever program using such a
> model.
> 
> The question is how do memory managers succeed to remain efficient and
> yet cope with memory allocation of so many different sizes?

There re a variety of possible strategies.

First, for very large blocks of memory, it's not a question of 
fragmenting memory, but of fragmenting address space -- the page table 
takes care of keeping track of the physical memory.  There's never a 
reason to consider a page of physical memory as being in one fragment 
or an other, since it can be anywhare in the address space.  If your 
address space is much larger than your memory, as it is on today's 
64-bit hardware, it's rather difficult to run out of addresses.

Second, for smaller chunks, it's possible to have different regions of 
address space devoted to different sizes of storage allocation.  If 
there are too many different sizes, the system may pick a smaller nuber 
of standard sizes and round requests up to the smallest standard block 
it will fit in.

After thet there are probably a variety of data structures that can 
keep track of all the allocations and free spaces.  on the Lnuxes I've 
been using, malloc seems to keep its administrative data far removed 
from the memory it is allocating.  So although it's easy to clobber 
one's data structures by indexing slightlly out of bounds one is 
less likely to clobber malloc's administrative data.

> 
> Edward
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Wifi device names: was systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 31/01/2016 03:12, Steve Litt a écrit :

#!/bin/sh
if test "$#" == "0"; then
   lineno="1"
else
   lineno=$1
fi

ip link | \
   cut -d ' ' -f2 | \
   grep ^w | \
   sed -e "s/:\s*$//" | \
   head -n $lineno | \
   tail -n 1


Doesn't work out of the box.

If /usr/bin/test was invoqued you should write '-eq' instead of 
'=='. But shell languages have non-standard built-ins. If /bin/sh points 
to dash, like in Debian, then the built-in test would accept '='. I 
guess '==' is a bashism (actually the adoption of a Cism by a shell 
language). Replacing '==' by '=' just works.


Thanks for the script nevertheless :-)

Didier

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 05:14:00PM +0300, Mitt Green wrote:
> Flor‎ian Zieboll wrote:‎
> 
> >The new syntax works fine on my Jessie systems, no need for
> >double e‎ntries.
> 
> Nice :)
> 
> >It is running sysv-init with XDM
> >and DWM / JWM and all the "major components"
> >like dbus, udev and even cups.
> 
> You may even want to remove dbus package, if there is no
> dependency on it. dwm is, by the way, made by
> suckless.org, those mates are known for their
> minimalistic approach in writing code and their attitude to
> systemd in particular, even having a section about it on
> the site. They surely read this list :)
> 
> To be honest, I removed aptitude in the very early days
> of my Debian experience and have never installed it again.
> APT and dpkg do the job great for me, I very rarely open 
> Synaptic. Deborphan is nice to manage retained
> unnecessary packages and configurations.

aptide used to be unique because it maintained the distinction between 
packages you had requested and packages it had installed as 
dependencies.  I'm told that nowadays, apt maintains that information, 
too, so apttitude users don't have to worry about thheir dependency 
database being corrupted.  I don't know if apt does anything with it, 
though.

-- hendrik

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

2016-01-31 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 31/01/2016 15:32, Hendrik Boom a écrit :

aptide used to be unique because it maintained the distinction between
packages you had requested and packages it had installed as
dependencies.  I'm told that nowadays, apt maintains that information,
too, so apttitude users don't have to worry about thheir dependency
database being corrupted.  I don't know if apt does anything with it,
though.


I guess this distinction between manually-installed and 
automatically-installed is necessary for apt-get --auto-remove to work 
at all.


This information is available to Synaptic as well. I have been 
using synaptic alternatively with apt-get as from when it was available, 
because I was never able to make sense of aptitude.


Didier

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Are my messages delivered?

2016-01-31 Thread Teodoro Santoni 
Hello,

2016-01-30 18:30 GMT+01:00, fsmithred :
> I finally went into the gmail settings and set a filter there. I put "DNG"
> in the Contains text box and have it go to the inbox. Today, I see a
> message from Go Linux in my DNG folder. I think it's working.
>
> fsr

Tried that, mails from Go and Mitt went to the spam as usual again.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] Can I create other projects on git.devuan.org besides netman?

2016-01-31 Thread Edward Bartolo 
Hi All,

Since space on servers costs money I am asking whether I am allowed to
create other project on git.devuan.org?

I have these simple projects:
a) a GUI frontend for dict
b) a minesweeper game coded in a way to allow playing beyond the first
mine hit (coded yesterday and today)
c) an expression calculator that can plot and resize Cartesian and
Polar Graphs together with solving single unknown equations
irrespective of their complexity. This calculator uses its own
calculation engines implying no extra dependencies are required.

Edward
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng