Re: [DNG] Why /command ?

[Laurent Bercot]

So I was wondering what the original intent was in having these two
directories directly off the root? Is it so the init and supervision
can proceed even before partition mounts are complete? Is there some
other reason? Can anyone recommend setups that fulfill the reasons for
the direct-off-root dirs without having direct-off-root dirs?


 /package and /command are initially an idea from DJB. They were
introduced with daemontools.

 The intent was to step away from FHS, which is a bad standard. You
can see the original issues that DJB had with FHS here:
 http://cr.yp.to/slashpackage/studies.html

 That was in 1997-1998, and 20 years later, things have not changed.
The FHS is still bad - arguably worse, because official-looking
documents have been written to make it look like the Standard™
without ever questioning its technical value: this is inertia and
laziness at work.

 There are a few initiatives that had the courage to think about the
guarantees they want a file hierarchy to offer, and come up with
original solutions. Among them, for instance: DJB's slashpackage,
the GoboLinux distribution, and the Nix and Guix file hierarchies.
Each of those initiatives have their own advantages and their own
drawbacks, just like FHS. They make certain things possible or
more convenient, and certain other things impossible or less
convenient.

 The main guarantee that slashpackage (and also typically Nix) wants
to offer that FHS does not, for instance, is fixed absolute paths for
executables. If you have a slashpackage installation, you know where
to find your runit binary: it's /package/admin/runit/command/runit.
if you only have FHS, there's always doubt: is it /bin/runit? 
/sbin/runit?

/usr/bin/runit? This may not be a problem for runit, but it is a
problem for binaries you'd want in a shebang: execlineb, for instance.
Is it #!/bin/execlineb? #!/usr/bin/execlineb? Slashpackage gives
the answer: #!/package/admin/execline/command/execlineb. It's longer,
but prevents you from using horrors such as "#!/usr/bin/env execlineb",
which only displace the problem (there's no guarantee that env is
in /usr/bin, and in fact on some embedded devices it's in /bin).

 There are other interesting things that slashpackage, or more
generally not-FHS, allows you to do that FHS does not. For one, the
ability to install side-by-side several versions of the same software
is pretty interesting to me: very useful for debugging. It also sounds
like something distributions' package managers should like. But FHS
makes it very difficult, if not impossible, and mainstream package
managers (including Alpine's apk!) are being held back by that.

 I personally think that the guarantees offered by FHS were useful
at some point in time, but that we're long past this point and FHS
is mostly obsolete by now; that FHS is some legacy we have to carry
around for compatibility but that is preventing us from moving
forward instead of helping us. And distributions that refuse to move
an inch from FHS are the main problem here. They *are* the inertia,
and their unwillingness to question the validity of FHS stems out
of intellectual laziness. It was the case in 2000, it still is the
case today.

 There are ways to nudge them towards adoption of better systems, but
it's a lot of effort and it's baby steps. The best software authors can
do is make their software completely configurable, adaptable to any
policy, and gently encourage better policies. s6 will install under
FHS, under slashpackage, under Nix and basically anything else.
runit, like daemontools, tries to enforce slashpackage - I wanted to
enforce slashpackage at some point, too, but unfortunately a convention
is only useful if everyone follows it, and nobody follows slashpackage.
And anyway it's not an author's job to enforce policy - that's a
distro's job, and if a distro's views conflicts with the author's,
it can simply avoid packaging the software, so authors have no leverage
at all on this front.

 To answer Steve's last questions: there is no real way of getting
slashpackage's guarantees without following slashpackage, because
guaranteed absolute paths are only good if everyone can agree on their
location, and as far as slashpackage is concerned that ship has sailed.
However, there is still a way to get some of the additional benefits
of not-FHS: install a package in its own subdirectory - no matter where
it is - and make symlinks where required.

 There's even a FHS place for packages that want to be installed
in their own directory: /opt. So if you want to install runit in a
FHS-approved location, you could use /opt/runit. You could use
/opt/runit/2.1.2, with a /opt/runit/current -> 2.1.2 symlink, or
/opt/runit-2.1.2 with a /opt/runit -> runit-2.1.2 symlink if you want
the "install several versions at the same time" benefit.

 ... but unfortunately, FHS specifies that /opt was made to install
software _that does not come from distributions_. So if a distribution
wants to be 

Re: [DNG] [cairo] cairo packaging and Makefile.am.features

[Uli Schlachter]

On 14.04.2017 21:15, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote:
> On 14.04.2017 18:33, Uli Schlachter wrote:
[...]
> Could it be that it's magically doing that on its own ?

I don't remember the exact name of the flag, but auto-foo can be told to
automatically re-run configure if configure.ac changes etc. So yes, it
could be that "make" noticed that an input to automake changed, so then
it reruns automake. Then it notices that "configure.ac" changed and it
reruns configure.

To check that theory, you would need to look at some build logs.

[...]
>>> Therefore, these files *really* should always be autogenerated and
>>> strictly kept out of the src tree / tarball.
>>
>> They are autogenerated. "make dist" adds it to tarballs since the file
>> is included by something.
> 
> I dont think the tarball should contain any autogenerated stuff.

You don't want tarballs with "configure" in them? That's quite unusual
and will make many, many people unhappy.

> That brings the risk that not everything's regenerated, if some patches
> applied

Which is why distros re-generate configure, I think. No?

Uli
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Re: [DNG] [cairo] cairo packaging and Makefile.am.features

[Uli Schlachter]

On 14.04.2017 07:09, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote:
[...]
> When / by whom exactly are these files created ?

When configure is run.
By configure.

> Is there any way to
> teach automake+frieds to generate them (via configure.ac etc), w/o
> complaining and w/o the need of extra preparations and special
> commands ?

configure already generates this. No idea what "complaining", "extra
preparations", nor "special commands" you mean. (Well, ok, perhaps the
empty files: This just

It should be generated by the macros from build/aclocal.makefile.m4
("These are the facilities for generating Makefile.am.features[...]").
The macros are called by build/configure.ac.features which is
m4_include'd by configure.ac.

So it seems that this needs configure to run. As a side effect this
generates the proper files. Then you need to run automake again so that
the proper Makefile.in is created. Which means you need to run configure
again...

> Therefore, these files *really* should always be autogenerated and
> strictly kept out of the src tree / tarball.

They are autogenerated. "make dist" adds it to tarballs since the file
is included by something.

Uli
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[DNG] Unable to log in to the Without SystemD wiki

[Cray XMP]

Is there anyone on this list acting as an admin on the
without-systemd.org wiki ?
If so, since this useful wiki seems to not accepting logins since
roughly late May, could you please unlock it to re-enable user logins ?
Thank you.



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Re: [DNG] Why /command ?

[Kevin Berry]

Steve,

Have you checked for the source package to runit-run?  You may find trouble
getting the Devuan devs to accept a slackpackage install, since it doesn't
meet the FHS.  runit-run is a package that used to exist in Debian (and
Ubuntu imported it until 12.04, I believe), that Gerrit made to fit in the
FHS.  Some other De(bi|vu)an -run packages still exist that work in a
similar manner.

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Steve Litt 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing a document on how to install runit on Devuan, with the hope
> that some day it will lead to a Devuan package that makes sense and to
> the best degree possible implements the goals of the software's author.
>
> Most of it's pretty straightforward, but the runit install scripts
> (package/upgrade to be specific) create /command right off the root,
> and the runit docs suggest I create /package right off the root. These
> are things that most distros would refuse to do.
>
> So I was wondering what the original intent was in having these two
> directories directly off the root? Is it so the init and supervision
> can proceed even before partition mounts are complete? Is there some
> other reason? Can anyone recommend setups that fulfill the reasons for
> the direct-off-root dirs without having direct-off-root dirs?
>
> By the way, if the runit docs go well, I'll do the same thing with s6.
>
> Thanks,
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> June 2017 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
>



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Re: [DNG] Hello says 'idonis'

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 09:12:11PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Ismael was first asked to fill out a bug report, without the added text
> "at bugs.devuan.org". Sounds simple to you, but an unnecessary time
> waster for him. Those four words should be included with every request
> for bug tracking.

Hi Steve,

I don't know where you picked this from. Every time I ask anybody to
file a bug, I always say: "Please file a bug report at
http://bugs.devuan.org, i.e. by using the 'reportbug' tool".

[cut]

> 
> You know, I've had situations where I found a bug, asked a few
> questions, solved the bug, wrote the solution on the mailing list,
> marked it , and was then asked to jump through a bugtracker's
> hoops to re-record it. I went on to other things.
>

Steve, has this ever happened to you in Devuan? The answer is: NO. So
please, do not bring here your past bad experience with other
communities, mixing it with unrelated comments about other bad
experiences in unrelated contexts :)

We are here to try to solve Devuan's problems, not to overburden the
users with rants about how that specific developer harassed me when I
failed to specify in my bug report that I was using X,Y,Z.

Reporting bugs, and keeping bug reports tidy, is vital to solving
bugs, like it or not. People keep asking what they can do in practice
for Devuan if they can't develop new things, or maintain packages. The
one thing I can suggest is:


 ** learn how to report bugs, report as many bugs as possible, help
 ** with triaging them, help with solving them if you can, help other
 ** people who are venturing on the same path.


The problem with reporting bugs in a ML like DNG, which has an average
of 6000+ messages per year, is that they simply get *lost*.

And acknowledging a bug report on a ML like DNG is useless, since
users will think that they have successfully helped Devuan, only to
discover that their bug was not solved in the end, just because it got
forgotten among 500 other emails about how to cook a perfect goulash
or how to shoot a woodpecker from a 100ft distance.

Helping a community costs some effort, because "helping" is just about
doing some work yourself on behalf of somebody else.


[cutting-40-lines-of-unrelated-rant-about-BTSs...]

> 
> To summarize: Many people use ten or twenty different pieces of Free
> Software. Each piece has its own "bug tracker" with its own URL and
> rules and demanded info. Some even refuse to go farther if something
> isn't put in: It's like "ha ha sucker, we wasted your time. Wanna go
> double or nothing?" I think the Free Software world will be much more
> efficient if the User is thanked for submitting a good and complete
> symptom description, without having to know project specific
> information.
>  

A good and complete symptom description *is* a bug report. But
anything like "UTF does not work in Devuan under X" is neither a
complete symptom description nor a bug report. It's just a rant. And
we don't need rants, because we have already plenty of them and rants
have no solutions. We need bug reports, since we have a lot of bugs
and bugs usually do have solutions.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Hello says 'idonis'

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:47:55 -0400
"Ismael L. Donis Garcia"  wrote:

> Package: amprolla
> 
> Create the Release file of the experimental branch with the line:
> Codename: none
> 
> And should have the name of the branch
> Codename: experimental
> 
> This prevents me from downloading the repositories to my PC.
> Which prevents me from using devuan in places where there is no
> Internet access.
> 
> goodbye 

Ismael has *a lot* more patience than I. After the first time someone
said "make a bug report" without an exact URL, I'd have been gone.

One of the most impressive things I ever saw was an Orlando startup, I
think a free software startup, but I don't remember, whose policy was
that a user should *never* have to deal with bug tracker software. The
user describes it on the mailing list, list-mates ask incisive
questions to get complete and accurate info, and then any bug entry is
done' by people who are good at that kind of stuff.

Ismael was first asked to fill out a bug report, without the added text
"at bugs.devuan.org". Sounds simple to you, but an unnecessary time
waster for him. Those four words should be included with every request
for bug tracking.

You get to bugs.devuan.org, and the first thing you need to do is read
"Instructions for reporting a bug." Oop, more reading. And then you
learn you should check on the WWW and elsewhere for similar bugs.
Where? How?

First crack out of the box, it asks you for a package name. As they say
in court: "Objection: Calls for a conclusion on the part of the
witness." He knows what program he was running or trying to run, but
what package provided it? Probably not. And if you ask and he guesses
wrong, the people needing to solve the problem are going to start out
based on a bad assumption. And it just keeps getting worse from there.

You know, I've had situations where I found a bug, asked a few
questions, solved the bug, wrote the solution on the mailing list,
marked it , and was then asked to jump through a bugtracker's
hoops to re-record it. I went on to other things.

Here's the problem: You're integrating a bug acquisition system with a
bug tracking system. They're two different things, that should be
handled at two different times, probably by two different kinds of
people.

Bug aquisition software faces the user, with no assumptions about the
user's technical aptitude, knowledge of the software, or knowledge of
the process of troubleshooting. 

Bug tracking software, on the other hand, automates a skillful and
knowledgeable counter person in a repair shop. And because it's
automated, it can do things like search for similar problems, it can be
searched, and it can be used as a question/answer facility between the
person researching/fixing the problem, and the person who reported it.
But the user shouldn't enter a symptom description into it: That
would be begging to proceed on untested assumptions, and would
inconvenience many users to point where they wouldn't do it.

Once upon a time Troubleshooters.Com had something called the Symptom
Description Wizard. It's still there, but most of it is a Java applet
no browser will run anymore. This is the kind of thing that's needed
for symptom acquisition. Maybe I'll rewrite it without Java.

To summarize: Many people use ten or twenty different pieces of Free
Software. Each piece has its own "bug tracker" with its own URL and
rules and demanded info. Some even refuse to go farther if something
isn't put in: It's like "ha ha sucker, we wasted your time. Wanna go
double or nothing?" I think the Free Software world will be much more
efficient if the User is thanked for submitting a good and complete
symptom description, without having to know project specific
information.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
July 2017 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
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Re: [DNG] Install tomcat on devuan

[Tom Cassidy]

There is a tomcat8 package in the repositories. Have you tried that?

> On 21 Apr 2017, at 06:22, "alberto.se...@tin.it"  wrote:
> 
> Hi to all,
> 
> Is it possible install Apache Tomcat on Devuan ?
> 
> Alberto Senni
> 
> ---
> Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
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Re: [DNG] virtualbox-dkms fails to build on Devuan

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 03:35:24PM -0500, Thaddeus Nielsen wrote:
> Setting up virtualbox-dkms (5.1.8-dfsg-6~bpo8+2) ...

This isn't from jessie, it's from backports.

> Building for 4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64

This is also from backports, not from jessie.

From the vbox changelog:
"* Linux hosts: compile Linux 4.9 compile fix (bug #16286)"



Either downgrade your kernel, or upgrade to virtualbox 5.1.12 or higher.

Greg


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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual, politics and society

[Jaromil]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017, Massimo Coppola wrote:

> Please don't ever take things personally, anyone: the boat moves too
> much and may topple, so we should _all_ stay sitting. It really does
> not matter who shook it first or most.

well said Massimo, thanks

it doesn't matter at all who is who. we are looking forward to some
understanding, with the most possible inclusion

ciao
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Re: [DNG] WICD & DNS & IPv6

[Antony Stone]

On Wednesday 19 July 2017 at 21:18:21, KatolaZ wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 09:27:37PM +0200, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> > Am 2017-07-19 20:48, schrieb KatolaZ:
> > > Which Devuan release are you using?
> > 
> > Jessie
> > 
> > > A de-systemd-ised network-manager is in jessie for sure.
> > 
> > Is this new?
> > tried it, seems to work, but there are some network problems. Switched
> > back to wicd.
> 
> It has been in Jessie since Jessie has become stable. Please report
> only on bugs/misfunctions about the latest version of whatever you are
> using :)

Also, "some network problems" is not a very helpful bug report :)

If you're going to say that something doesn't work properly, please at least 
say *how* it doesn't work properly...


Antony.

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Re: [DNG] WICD & DNS & IPv6

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 09:27:37PM +0200, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> Am 2017-07-19 20:48, schrieb KatolaZ:
> 
> >Which Devuan release are you using?
> 
> Jessie
> 
> >A de-systemd-ised network-manager
> >is in jessie for sure.
> 
> Is this new?
> tried it, seems to work, but there are some network problems. Switched back
> to wicd.
> 

It has been in Jessie since Jassie has become stable. Please report
only on bugs/misfunctions about the latest version of whatever you are
using :)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] WICD & DNS & IPv6

[Joachim Fahrner]

Am 2017-07-19 20:48, schrieb KatolaZ:


Which Devuan release are you using?


Jessie


A de-systemd-ised network-manager
is in jessie for sure.


Is this new?
tried it, seems to work, but there are some network problems. Switched 
back to wicd.



If you don't want anybody to change the DNS settings in
/etc/resolv.conf, just:

  # chattr +a /etc/resolv.conf


Thats' great, thanks!
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[DNG] can we get back to talking about devuan? or at least not toxic topics...

[zap]

I could understand if this discussion was just irrelevant nonsense
pertaining to linking to random mlp sites or talking about how much dog
food you eat, even then it would be a bad idea... but it least then I
and I think many others would laugh it off... but the topics that are
being brought up are politics and religion...

I myself have views on both, which you probably have seen, but let's
just stop doing this stuff at least for a week maybe idk... its not
neutral... it starts negative flame wars...

let's take these toxic threads to reddit or better yet if you really
want to spam, do it elsewhere... like on websites like youtube, google
and mac forums...

that is all.

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Re: [DNG] WICD & DNS & IPv6

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 08:41:25PM +0200, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> Hi,
> since Gnome network manager depends on systemd, I have to use wicd on my

Which Devuan release are you using? A de-systemd-ised network-manager
is in jessie for sure.

> notebook. And since my internet provider does not allow to change dns
> setting on their router, I only can change it on my notebook.
> But wicd does not accept ipv6 addresses in the dns fields. Is there some
> other way to supersede the dhclient dns settings on Devuan?
> 

If you don't want anybody to change the DNS settings in
/etc/resolv.conf, just:

  # chattr +a /etc/resolv.conf

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Why /command ?

[Andy Mender]

Dear Steve,

I tinkered with runit on Devuan and Gentoo and managed to get some things
done with it in the past.
Here is the link to the docs I wrote for Devuan previously:
https://talk.devuan.org/t/runit-as-init-supervisor-for-devuan/487

Cheers,
Andy

On 2 July 2017 at 01:37, Steve Litt  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing a document on how to install runit on Devuan, with the hope
> that some day it will lead to a Devuan package that makes sense and to
> the best degree possible implements the goals of the software's author.
>
> Most of it's pretty straightforward, but the runit install scripts
> (package/upgrade to be specific) create /command right off the root,
> and the runit docs suggest I create /package right off the root. These
> are things that most distros would refuse to do.
>
> So I was wondering what the original intent was in having these two
> directories directly off the root? Is it so the init and supervision
> can proceed even before partition mounts are complete? Is there some
> other reason? Can anyone recommend setups that fulfill the reasons for
> the direct-off-root dirs without having direct-off-root dirs?
>
> By the way, if the runit docs go well, I'll do the same thing with s6.
>
> Thanks,
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> June 2017 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
>
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual, politics and society

[Massimo Coppola]

Dear all

as a usually silent listener, I do understand the exceptional need for 
moderation.

Do not destroy the comunity with noise or completely not relevant topics: beyond 
some point this cannot be ignored, even in spite of useful tecnnical 
contribution, as it drives away more contributions. What Jaromil asked to Miro 
should really be taken seriously by everyone.


I also wish to say that this is not a fight arena or a market: we don't need to 
break even with each other, and if someone ends up moderated because he really 
crossed the line, it does not mean we all automatically gain the right to go in 
the same direction or that much far.


Please don't ever take things personally, anyone: the boat moves too much and 
may topple, so we should _all_ stay sitting. It really does not matter who shook 
it first or most.


Since I like to try and be coherent with what I suggest to you all, I will not 
comment further on the thread: I hope I made myself clear and I did not offend 
anyone. But in case you think I am mistaken and out of topic, feel free to put 
my address on your ignore list. It may be a good start.


Kind regards

Massimo

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[DNG] Motion to moderate

[maildoneright]

I motion to moderate (with extreme delay, as in the other case)
this one as well.

   > From: Fungi4All 

Extreme off-topic rants from one side 
is equally bad as extreme off-topic rants 
from the other.

NO ONE CARES about this #SJW crap.
Take it to a #Hillary Clinton list.

ps -- I'm starting to wonder what you guys do here...



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[DNG] virtualbox-dkms fails to build on Devuan

[Thaddeus Nielsen]

Greetings!  I have been using Devuan Jessie 1.0 Beta2 for
nearly two months.  I regularly update the system.  Once I had
virtualbox running fine but then removed it.  Since then the kernel has
been upgraded at least twice.  I have reinstalled virtualbox and all
the components are working except virtualbox-dkms fails to build.  This
means there is no vboxdrv driver.  Below please find the install
error and the build make log.  Advice would be appreciated.

Thaddeus Nielsen

When attempting to (re)install virtualbox-dkms, here is the
output to the screen:

Setting up virtualbox-dkms (5.1.8-dfsg-6~bpo8+2) ...
Loading new virtualbox-5.1.8 DKMS files...
Building for 4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64
Building initial module for 4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64
Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64
(x86_64)
Consult /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/make.log for more
information. [ ok ] Unloading VirtualBox kernel modules
[] Loading VirtualBox kernel modules...[] No suitable module for
running[FAILel found ... failed!
 failed!
invoke-rc.d: initscript virtualbox, action "restart" failed.

And here is /var/lib/dkms/virutalbox/5.1.8/build/make.log:

DKMS make.log for virtualbox-5.1.8 for kernel 4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64
(x86_64) Sat Mar 25 14:57:30 CDT 2017
make: Entering directory '/usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64'
  LD  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/built-in.o
  LD  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/built-in.o
  CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/linux/SUPDrv-linux.o
CC [M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/SUPDrv.o CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/SUPDrvGip.o CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/SUPDrvSem.o CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/SUPDrvTracer.o CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/SUPLibAll.o CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/alloc-r0drv.o
CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/initterm-r0drv.o
CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/memobj-r0drv.o
CC
[M]  /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/mpnotification-r0drv.o
CC
[M]  
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/powernotification-r0drv.o
CC
[M]  
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/assert-r0drv-linux.o
CC
[M]  
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/alloc-r0drv-linux.o
CC
[M]  
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/initterm-r0drv-linux.o
CC
[M]  
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.o
CC
[M]  
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memuserkernel-r0drv-linux.o
 /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:
In function
‘rtR0MemObjNativeLockUser’: 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:1053:33:
warning: passing argument 4 of ‘get_user_pages’ makes pointer from
integer without a cast fWrite, /* force write access.
*/ ^ In file included
from 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/the-linux-kernel.h:98:0,
from 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:31:
 /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-common/include/linux/mm.h:1302:6:
note: expected ‘struct page **’ but argument is of type ‘int’ long
get_user_pages(unsigned long start, unsigned long nr_pages,
^ 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:1054:33:
warning: passing argument 5 of ‘get_user_pages’ from incompatible
pointer type >apPages[0],   /* Page array. */ ^ In file
included
from 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/the-linux-kernel.h:98:0,
from 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:31:
 /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-common/include/linux/mm.h:1302:6:
note: expected ‘struct vm_area_struct **’ but argument is of type
‘struct page **’ long get_user_pages(unsigned long start, unsigned long
nr_pages,
^ 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:1050:18:
error: too many arguments to function ‘get_user_pages’ rc =
get_user_pages(R3Ptr,  /* Where from. */ ^ In file
included
from 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/the-linux-kernel.h:98:0,
from 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:31:
 /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-common/include/linux/mm.h:1302:6:
note: declared here long get_user_pages(unsigned long start, unsigned
long nr_pages,
^ 
/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/5.1.8/build/vboxdrv/r0drv/linux/memobj-r0drv-linux.c:1067:33:
warning: passing argument 6 of ‘get_user_pages_remote’ makes pointer
from integer without a cast fWrite, /* force write
access. */ ^ In file included
from 

[DNG] Install tomcat on devuan

[alberto.se...@tin.it]

Hi to all,

Is it possible install Apache Tomcat on Devuan ?

Alberto Senni

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Ron]

People,

Please stop replying, just apply the Del key.

Because unless the list gnomes apply the cluestick (or worse), nothing will 
stop those who want to continue with their OT rants, self-righteously claiming 
they can do so because someone else also did.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 Everyone talks about apathy,
  but no one does anything about it.

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Jaromil]

you were warned, now in moderation.

hope we are finished here?

I definitely do not love doing this...

to all newcomers please refer to this guide to understand what is
going on and how to respect this open space for discussion about
Devuan http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt especially the
one-to-many section.


The DNG mailinglist is the first campfire after the debianfork
declaration, it now counts more than 500 subscribers and is almost 4
years old.

Please do keep on topic, avoid personal attacks (also to developers of
systemd!!) and refrain from telling us your world view, because we are
many different people and we are not here to talk just about anything,
but about Devuan.

Any off-topic post accompained by disrespect for the diversity
gathered here won't be tolerated and sadly moderated. Please also
understand we do not love moderation nor have a dedicated staff for
it, so fuzz may happen and is acted upon with a certain delay.

ciao

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 06:07:52PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> My mail was an ironical way to remind of historical facts related to
> Devuan and to repair the incredibly offensive words you wrote here,
> abusing our open space.
> 
> Beware I have zero tolerance on the subject you are now using to
> attack me ad-personam, a subject which is OT on Devuan and most
> importantly, an aggression against minorities, as you are waving the
> right for unconsensual treatment against them.
> 
> You are now moderated. I'm not even sure we'll have time to approve
> your mails. So long for your favorite ranting space and helpdesk.

Please tell me you're going to moderate extreme left views as well.
I for one find both bible-thumping and SJWery to be equally repulsive.
Neither has a place on a list devoted to discussing ways to fix regressions
caused by systemd.

And I hope you won't dismiss me without thinking -- while there's a lot more
I should have been doing, at least I'm not all talk, having contributed to
openrc, de-pulsification or my repository of de-systemdized packages.  I'd
prefer to have a place to ask for advice -- for example, it looks like
there's an important battle coming by related to replacing logind now that
-shim is falling apart (thus letting the systemd crowd claim a reason to
make GUIs systemd-only) -- but if this mailing list is going to turn into an
echo chamber for the extreme left, I don't think I'd be able to stay.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can.
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener.
⠈⠳⣄ A master species delegates.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Fungi4All]

> From: goli...@dyne.org
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> On 2017-07-19 11:28, Fungi4All wrote:
>>> Meow!
>>
>> I am new here and I have to admit the surprise as first three emails I
>> got from the list were of this topic. I agree that if the choices of
>> the team
>> that made devuan is what brought us here we should stick to our common
>> interest
>> of the system under this specific philosophy . . .
> [political rant]
> Good grief. GET A GRIP! What you"re saying may be very true. BUT THIS
> IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT. Please cultivate some restraint and THINK
> before posting if you want to continue to post here.
> golinux

YOU GET A GRIP among other things. I have been bombarded with crypto-nazi
propaganda for days and didn't say a word, and you are going to get strict with 
me!
Seriously, if something else bothered you say so, or get a mental health
advise or exercise restraint for who you choose to threaten of being silenced.
Go and look at the stats of how many emails I have received on the subject
before I chose to make a statement.
REALLY GET A GRIP BECAUSE YOUR ARE REVEALING A CERTAIN IDENTITY___
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[golinux]

On 2017-07-19 11:28, Fungi4All wrote:

Meow!


I am new here and I have to admit the surprise as first three emails I
got from the list were of this topic. I agree that if the choices of 
the team
that made devuan is what brought us here we should stick to our common 
interest

of the system under this specific philosophy . . .


[political rant]

Good grief.  GET A GRIP!  What you're saying may be very true.  BUT THIS 
IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT.   Please cultivate some restraint and THINK 
before posting if you want to continue to post here.


golinux




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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Fungi4All]

> Meow!

I am new here and I have to admit the surprise as first three emails I got from
the list were of this topic. I agree that if the choices of the team that made
devuan is what brought us here we should stick to our common interest of the
system under this specific philosophy (# of bugs is irrelevant if you want to
struggle under the same ideals as those diclared by founders).
Although I totally reject all symbolism as significant, color choices and 
symbols
have little to do with why we are here. On the other hand, and I am 
unfortunately
not gay, if such a rumor goes around and keeps out all kinds of fascists, 
authoritarians,
religious freaks, nationalists and all sorts of fanatic fans of anything, I 
will not
mind at all, nor will I be willing to participate in any such change.
I will have to think about it in more detail, but going to a gay parade with a 
rainbow
flag and a Devuan logo or t-shirt is within the scope of things I do. :)
If it pisses off systemd priesthood, google-nazis, mozilla-nationalists, and 
microsoft
cops, I am all for giving them heartache.
Unfortunately as stated above is that I am socially conditioned to fear to love 
or
be loved by a person of the same gender. It is a psychopathology that lucky gay
people don't have or they have overcome that fear. And I am dedicated to the
struggle of being free. Fortunately I did love my father and love my son, 
comfortably.
But "gender ideology", get a grip of yourselves.
There is nothing more conservative than not having an ideology, from being
middle of the road, or neutral. Were you neutral when the Turks exterminated
Armenians, when the Cypriots were exterminating Turks, when the Nazis
exterminated the Jews, or when the US invaded Serbia, or when Greek authorities
were murdering Syrian refugees trying to reach the coast? What in this world
is it that you don't care about and you are neutral about. 10 centuries of
English apartheid in Ireland maybe?
At least fascists have an alibi of having a belief, you have nothing, whoever 
you
are being neutral, you consumer you, you false excuse for a being!___
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Jaromil]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017, Miroslav Rovis wrote:

> I don't think, and I believe I speak here for a huge majority of
> people, I don't think they came to Devuan to be in anything like a
> gay club...

noone came here to read you ranting about homosexuals being sick and
in need of cure.

You started this, so now its your choice to end it here.

My mail was an ironical way to remind of historical facts related to
Devuan and to repair the incredibly offensive words you wrote here,
abusing our open space.

Beware I have zero tolerance on the subject you are now using to
attack me ad-personam, a subject which is OT on Devuan and most
importantly, an aggression against minorities, as you are waving the
right for unconsensual treatment against them.

You are now moderated. I'm not even sure we'll have time to approve
your mails. So long for your favorite ranting space and helpdesk.

ciao
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Re: [DNG] I apologize, but I lost my email somehow with the, packages needed for openrc

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 05:00:28PM +0200, Evilham wrote:
> Am 19/07/2017 um 16:57 schrieb zap:
> > openrc should be the default though runit should of course also
> > be available heh
> 
> Changing people's default init system is how we got here.

Neither openrc nor sysv-rc are init systems.

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 03:11:16PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 13:51:48 + Miroslav Rovis 
>  wrote:
>
> I am beginning to understand why Gentoo banned you, you just do not
> know when to stop digging ;-)

Actually, at this point I'd say it's Miroslav who's right (even though I
vehemently disagree with ideology he's pushing).  Basically, we have
proponents of two, extremely and about equally vile, worldviews, and one of
these sides doesn't stop hypocritically calling everyone bigots and
demanding them to stop talking while keeping promoting their side.
It's not to say the other is any better -- they have a history of using
violent means to silence opposition, up to and including genocide; I'm just
pointing out that it's the Left that's in force on this list.

And at this time, the Left has a near-monopoly on racism, sexism, and so on,
despite their own rhetoric.  The Right also has massive downsides (like,
keeping a coal plant of 30MV+ running just two days kills one human by
short-term pollution alone, not including long-term global warming), etc.
The total amount of evil on both sides is staggeringly high, and
surprisingly balanced.  I'd elaborate more but such a discussion would be
the worst idea if we want to turn down the flames.

Thus, I'd propose an, at least temporary, ban on issues not related to
getting rid of systemd and other software nastiness, running a distribution,
assorted _tech_ banter.  Even telling us your daughter damaged her bike by
driving onto a porcupine, while OOT, is harmless.

On the other hand, let's forbid discussing _here_ the matters of orange nazi
clowns vs the Mother of Lies, pushing leftist or rightist views of
sexuality, and so on, so on.  It's hard to have sex over a TCP/IP
connection, you see -- thus it's completely irrelevant to people not in your
proximity.

And I'm saying this as someone whose country is undergoing a coup by extreme
Right that's likely to leave us worse than Turkey -- so I don't love them
the slightest bit.  But let's have balance, and if polite discussion doesn't
seem to be possible, let's move such topics elsewhere.


Meow!
-- 
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⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can.
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[golinux]

On 07/19/2017 10:42 AM, G.W. Haywood wrote:

Hi there,

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017, Rowland Penny wrote:


... I am beginning to understand why Gentoo banned you ...


Yeah, me too.

Putting up with that guy is worse than living with systemd; frankly,
taken along with all the other noise on this list, it isn't worth my
time even to delete the rants, never mind read them, so I'm going to
unsubscribe and go back to Debian.  I'll make a note in my diary to
pop back in a year or so, if I should live that long, and hope things
change for the better - like people getting some sort of a grip on
their personalities and actually remembering what this list is for.

I'm sorry it didn't work out.




On 2017-07-19 10:00, zap wrote:

I hope at some point you do return, though maybe we need a better
structure for the mailing list...



No. We need more tolerance and compassion for those who are socially 
inept.  And also more self-restraint when the urge to post 
inappropriate, off-topic content to this list arises.


This list is not a chat room.  Or a soapbox.  What has been going on 
lately is not good for the community.  It's driving people away.  So 
please everyone . . . get a grip and THINK before you post.  Make those 
bytes count for something that will advance Devuan.  It is NOT about YOU 
- what you think or feel or believe - but what you can bring to Devuan 
in a constructive, collaborative way.


golinux

PS. Bottom posting is preferred on this list.








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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[zap]

> [cutting-259-lines-OT-stuff]
>
> Could everyone please try to stay on topic and refrain from posting
> long and mainly unrelated material of any sort?
>
> Really Miroslav: first the Croatians and the history of their
> heritage. Next the interpretation of the bible. Then a mixture of
> random rants about gender and conservatorism.
>
> Everything potentially interensting, but probably not that much at all
> for the large majority of the subscribers of *this* *list*, who are
> just focused on getting systemd out of their computers, and developing
> Devuan.
>
> You should probably consider opening a blog for that stuff, and stop
> infesting community mailing lists. 
>
> WithLove
>
> KatolaZ
>

I don't want to sound nasty, but if people want to leave this mailing
list because of problems, this isn't going to solve the problems. 

Instead of unsubscribing, contacting the admins to put a stop to this,
is much more of a solution.

they do say patience is a virtue after all... i see why in my own life...

but yeah... unsubscribing only helps the person who leaves. let's rally
for changes in the mailing list.  If this is an issue which I think it
may be... and i admit, i was guilty too... but i am willing to change
and so should everyone else who is involved.

>
>
> ___
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 01:51:48PM +, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> ( some --such as missing-- quotes manually reinserted )
> 

[cutting-259-lines-OT-stuff]

Could everyone please try to stay on topic and refrain from posting
long and mainly unrelated material of any sort?

Really Miroslav: first the Croatians and the history of their
heritage. Next the interpretation of the bible. Then a mixture of
random rants about gender and conservatorism.

Everything potentially interensting, but probably not that much at all
for the large majority of the subscribers of *this* *list*, who are
just focused on getting systemd out of their computers, and developing
Devuan.

You should probably consider opening a blog for that stuff, and stop
infesting community mailing lists. 

WithLove

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] I apologize, but I lost my email somehow with the, packages needed for openrc

[zap]

> Changing people's default init system is how we got here.
>
> This is much saner:
>
> Am 19/07/2017 um 11:16 schrieb KatolaZ:
>> It is definitely desirable to have it among a set of pluggable
>> init systems, though.
hmm... not a bad idea. wisdom from katolaz indeed.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[zap]

I hope at some point you do return, though maybe we need a better
structure for the mailing list...


On 07/19/2017 10:42 AM, G.W. Haywood wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2017, Rowland Penny wrote:
>
>> ... I am beginning to understand why Gentoo banned you ...
>
> Yeah, me too.
>
> Putting up with that guy is worse than living with systemd; frankly,
> taken along with all the other noise on this list, it isn't worth my
> time even to delete the rants, never mind read them, so I'm going to
> unsubscribe and go back to Debian.  I'll make a note in my diary to
> pop back in a year or so, if I should live that long, and hope things
> change for the better - like people getting some sort of a grip on
> their personalities and actually remembering what this list is for.
>
> I'm sorry it didn't work out.
>

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Re: [DNG] I apologize, but I lost my email somehow with the, packages needed for openrc

[Evilham]

Am 19/07/2017 um 16:57 schrieb zap:
> openrc should be the default though runit should of course also
> be available heh

Changing people's default init system is how we got here.

This is much saner:

Am 19/07/2017 um 11:16 schrieb KatolaZ:
> It is definitely desirable to have it among a set of pluggable
> init systems, though.
-- 
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Re: [DNG] I apologize, but I lost my email somehow with the, packages needed for openrc

[zap]

On 07/19/2017 05:03 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> On 170719-03:50-0400, zap wrote:
>> My bad, my internet was acting weird, I could not tell if the messages
>> went through... I completely understand your irritation.
> I wasn't irritated. I was only saying, (I stuck a sincere smiley at end).
>
> And I think your apology is perfectly sufficient to just forget about that 
> trivially minor incident.
>
> And I'm still greatful for your help with installing OpenRC, help to me, and 
> to others by means of the Dev1Galaxy topic linked and by means of this 
> mailing list (all findable from the links and by searching the Lurker 
> archives).
>
> OpenRC is deemed so good/tested-in-other-distros/well-maintained that it 
> could become the default in Devuan. Our devs have expressed that 
> understanding in various occasions on this ML.
>
I agree! openrc should be the default though runit should of course also
be available heh.


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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Evilham]

Am 19/07/2017 um 16:11 schrieb Rowland Penny:
> Please stop with the rambling posts that make my eyes glaze over. they
> also have little to do with Devuan.

Thank you.

As far as anyone here is concerned, I'm a female humanoid lizzard
married to a human woman. And nobody should care.

Just quickly pointing out to d1g's (almost) no code of conduct; which
should probably apply everywhere:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=17
-- 
Evilham
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[G.W. Haywood]

Hi there,

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017, Rowland Penny wrote:


... I am beginning to understand why Gentoo banned you ...


Yeah, me too.

Putting up with that guy is worse than living with systemd; frankly,
taken along with all the other noise on this list, it isn't worth my
time even to delete the rants, never mind read them, so I'm going to
unsubscribe and go back to Debian.  I'll make a note in my diary to
pop back in a year or so, if I should live that long, and hope things
change for the better - like people getting some sort of a grip on
their personalities and actually remembering what this list is for.

I'm sorry it didn't work out.

--

73,
Ged.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Dragan FOSS]

Devuandom


Welcome To The Pleasuredome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrnvPCSP6Q8
;>




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Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Rowland Penny]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 13:51:48 +
Miroslav Rovis  wrote:

> ( some --such as missing-- quotes manually reinserted )

Please stop with the rambling posts that make my eyes glaze over. they
also have little to do with Devuan.

I am beginning to understand why Gentoo banned you, you just do not
know when to stop digging ;-)

Rowland
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[DNG] Devuan Constitution and Social Contract WAS: Sexual politics and society

[Miroslav Rovis]

( some --such as missing-- quotes manually reinserted )

On 170718-08:31+0200, Jaromil wrote:
( https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170718.062527.b6650d9d.en.html )

> On Sun, 16 Jul 2017, Antony Stone wrote:
( https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170716.192004.e25654db.en.html )

> > On Sunday 16 July 2017 at 19:55:21, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
( https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170716.185521.017ad951.en.html )

> > > P.S. I hope no one will produce any hatred of same-sex people out of my
> > > words above. By all means, pls. no!, I only regard those facts to be
> > > truthful as deemed, by a long standing majority, previously to that
> > > medical scientists vote, and false after that vote. IOW that the behavior
> > > of those people is an aberration, is a disease. Such people need help to
> > > get normal. But I don't hate them by any means. And I oppose any
> > > discrimination against them. They are of course human beings as any other
> > > human beings. With all the rights as any other human beings.

> > 1. What does this have to do with Devuan?
> 
> perhaps just one thing, that the first image this project ever
> released was a Valentine present, with attached a love declaration,
> between two men. it may be defined a platonic dev relationship, but
> definitely makes Devuan among the most gay distributions out there -
> and with a certain pride! :^D
> 
> ciao

To what extent is the above statement by one of the unelected-as-yet leaders',
if not _the leader_
(
and that unelectedness is still fine, but I don't think it can remain fine
forever; Jaromil, pls. see the quotes of your own publicly written statement
(of sorts) of intents further below...
)

To what extent is the above statement of one of our leaders' if not the
leader's, explicit support of gender ideology, and to what extent is it --and
if so, to what purpose?-- an lighthearted banter which carries no other meaning
but good-natured teasing?

The question is not irrelevant, and the answer to is is not obvious. There are
lots of places where gender idiology is dominant, there are places on the
internet where any conservative views are banned...

And I sicerely hope Devuan is not going towards adopting a model of such a
transformation for itself, and attempting to pull along all the momentum of the
movement that it started into such a transformation.

People come to Devuan because of its promise of init-freedom, because they are
sick with SystemDestruction and Poetterware.

I don't think, and I believe I speak here for a huge majority of people, I
don't think they came to Devuan to be in anything like a gay club...

It's fine to get an (alegorical) liberal club in Devuan, and make a compartment
in the liberal club for gays. (I sure won't be one of the visitors there, but
it's fine.)

But then it *must* also be fine to get a conservative club, and open, say, a
Bible-study compartment in that conservative club, in this alegorical
Devuandom.

None of that, however, would be fine (not the gay compartment in the liberal
club, neither my preferred alegorical Bible-study compartment in the
conservative club, I admit) if the Devuan Leaders were to be forcing that
club's views, be it liberal or conservative, and especially not the extreme
liberal which is the gender idiology, and neither the steadfast conservative
approach like mine, I agree...

None of that, however, would be fine if the Devuan Leaders would be forcing any
of that, either liberal or conservative views, let alone gender idiology, such
as, just to make a very clear example on both, such as promoting and declaring
Devuan as being something like a gay club, or, say, recommending Bible-study to
all the newbies, God forbid!... [None of that, however, would be fine if the
Devuan Leaders were to force any of that] onto the users/testers/developers!

I don't want to be in the (alegorical) gay club. And I'm just fine you not
wanting to be in my (alegorical) Bible-study group.

But pls. do not impose gender idiology to people who only want the promised
init-freedom and freedom from poetterware. Believe in it if you want, but do
not expect and absolutely do not require me to believe in gender idiology.

As you can see, the rhetorical-to-be question turns out to have been a great
question.
> > 1. What does this have to do with Devuan?

All of this discussion has a lot to do with Devuan. If gay-supporting views are
allowed, for banter and ... pride (sic! ...), my reply page to the question
about Bible translations
(
the question:
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170716.171824.9f2d2a33.en.html
the reply:
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170716.185521.017ad951.en.html
)
should really not be disallowed and frowned upon either.

For mere sake of neutrality and the always-so-promptly declared, from the
liberal camp, principle of liberty of views, if not for any other reasons.

But the above thread really has to do a lot with Devuan, because these matters
need to be defined in a 

Re: [DNG] ..experimental mirror is fixed now?, was: udev replacement

[Ismael L. Donis Garcia]

- Original Message - 
From: "KatolaZ" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [DNG] ..experimental mirror is fixed now?, was: udev 
replacement


Just to clarify:

The bug is *both* in that particular Release file and in the usage
that debmirror does of the Release file. As we have said several
times, the bug seems to appear only if debmirror tries to use that
particular Release file, while apt, apt-get, aptitude, synaptic,
apt-mirror, etc. seem to not be bothered.

Perhaps the easiest thing would be to patch *also* debmirror, on top
of correcting the mistake in the generation of that Release file.


That's what I'm trying to say, but it seems they do not understand me 
because of my poor language.
With resolving the problem of the Release file already debmirror would work 
in this case.



HND

KatolaZ

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Best Regads
--
Ismael
Devuan User : http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan




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Re: [DNG] VBScript Injection via GNOME Thumbnailer

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 08:28:25PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
> Adam Borowski writes:
> > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:07:35PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> >> Actually, imagemagick is one of worst offenders here.  The version in 
> >> Jessie
> >> is at deb8u9, and every security update tends to mention ~20 CVEs.
> >
> > ... nd, just hours later, here comes deb8u10:
> >
> > # Package: imagemagick
> > # CVE ID : CVE-2017-9439 CVE-2017-9440 CVE-2017-9500 CVE-2017-9501
> > #  CVE-2017-10928 CVE-2017-11141 CVE-2017-11170
> > #  CVE-2017-11360 CVE-2017-11188
> > # Debian Bug : 863126 867367 867778 867721 864273 864274 867806 868264
> > #  868184 867810 867808 867811 867812 867896 867798 867821
> > #  867824 867825 867826 867893 867823 867894 867897
> 
> Totally untested, but you might try to replace imagemagick with
> graphicsmagick.  It's at deb8u ;-)

It's a fork, so it suffers from same vulnerabilities as imagemagick.  It
might get better only after someone rewrites everything from scratch (in
which case there'll be a whole new set of bugs).

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can.
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener.
⠈⠳⣄ A master species delegates.
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Re: [DNG] VBScript Injection via GNOME Thumbnailer

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi,

Adam Borowski writes:

> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:07:35PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
>> Actually, imagemagick is one of worst offenders here.  The version in Jessie
>> is at deb8u9, and every security update tends to mention ~20 CVEs.
>
> ... nd, just hours later, here comes deb8u10:
>
> # Package: imagemagick
> # CVE ID : CVE-2017-9439 CVE-2017-9440 CVE-2017-9500 CVE-2017-9501
> #  CVE-2017-10928 CVE-2017-11141 CVE-2017-11170
> #  CVE-2017-11360 CVE-2017-11188
> # Debian Bug : 863126 867367 867778 867721 864273 864274 867806 868264
> #  868184 867810 867808 867811 867812 867896 867798 867821
> #  867824 867825 867826 867893 867823 867894 867897

Totally untested, but you might try to replace imagemagick with
graphicsmagick.  It's at deb8u ;-)

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
 Join the Free Software Foundation  https://my.fsf.org/join
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Re: [DNG] I apologize, but I lost my email somehow with the, packages needed for openrc

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 09:03:15AM +, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> On 170719-03:50-0400, zap wrote:
> > My bad, my internet was acting weird, I could not tell if the messages
> > went through... I completely understand your irritation.
> 
> I wasn't irritated. I was only saying, (I stuck a sincere smiley at end).
> 
> And I think your apology is perfectly sufficient to just forget about that 
> trivially minor incident.
> 
> And I'm still greatful for your help with installing OpenRC, help to me, and 
> to others by means of the Dev1Galaxy topic linked and by means of this 
> mailing list (all findable from the links and by searching the Lurker 
> archives).
> 
> OpenRC is deemed so good/tested-in-other-distros/well-maintained that it 
> could become the default in Devuan. Our devs have expressed that 
> understanding in various occasions on this ML.
> 

I guess it is unlikely that OpenRC will become the default in
Devuan. It is definitely desirable to have it among a set of pluggable
init systems, though.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] I apologize, but I lost my email somehow with the, packages needed for openrc

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170719-03:50-0400, zap wrote:
> My bad, my internet was acting weird, I could not tell if the messages
> went through... I completely understand your irritation.

I wasn't irritated. I was only saying, (I stuck a sincere smiley at end).

And I think your apology is perfectly sufficient to just forget about that 
trivially minor incident.

And I'm still greatful for your help with installing OpenRC, help to me, and to 
others by means of the Dev1Galaxy topic linked and by means of this mailing 
list (all findable from the links and by searching the Lurker archives).

OpenRC is deemed so good/tested-in-other-distros/well-maintained that it could 
become the default in Devuan. Our devs have expressed that understanding in 
various occasions on this ML.

-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
https://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [DNG] nevermind, my messages,

[Jaromil]

dear zap,

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017, zap wrote:

> I found my openrc packages and it is on again! hehe

rather than opening three new thread subjects 


dng is a mailinglist with >500 participants, some with lower vision,
and with online archives. your behaviour here affects us all and the
people reading archives online.

if you have messages about your own personal doings, we would really
appreciate if you could observe netiquette and use other channels of
communication, for instance IRC would be much more appropriate for
this sort of interaction.

this is not just a signal to you of course, but to anyone else who has
happily joined this list, and you are all very welcome, but please
always consider how to not disrupt threads and avoid unnecessary
messaging to all.

thanks for your cooperation
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