Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 02:34:52PM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > allow hotplug eth0 I believe that should be allow-hotplug but since I'm still running jessie, it's possible this has changed in Ascii. > iface inet eth0 dhcp > > auto wlx2824ff1a1794 You might want to replace that auto with another allow-hotplug. > iface wlx2824ff1a1794 inet dhcp > wpa-driver nl80211 > wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf > > # ifconfig returns: > > eth0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 > inet = 192.168.1.203 ... > ... > > wlx28924ff1a17894 flags=4099 mtu 1500 > inet = 192.168.1.203 ... > ... > > I'm surprised to see both interfaces assigned an IP address even though > I'm currently using ethernet wired. Since you defined your usb interface in interfaces with auto instead of allow-hotplug, that doesn't surprise me. > > One problem is that no mail gets out. Exim main log says: "lookup failed > for all hosts in smarthost router: host_find_failed=ignore > hosts_all_ignore=defer. No IP address found for host... Is this normal, > or does it point to trouble? I'd say points to trouble. If you're able to browse the web though, then this is probably an exim misconfiguration rather than the same issue. > > Another problem is that I can't switch from eth0 to wlx2894ff1a1794. If > I do # ifconfig eth0 down and # ifconfig wlx2824ff1a up, I see in > # inconfig that eth0 has no stanza and that the wlx2824ffla1794 > interface is not RUNNING. Can't ping or browse the web (failure in name > resolution). You want to do ifdown eth0 and ifup wlx2824ff1a Did you read interfaces(5), ifup(8), and ifdown(8)? If you haven't, and it sounds like you haven't, go read them. Otherwise you're attempting to do something without having read the fine manual, and that is sure to fail. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Virtualbox
Hi Just wondering if anyone is using virtualbox, and whether it brings in and systemd stuff? Ozi ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 15:44]: > On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:36:46 +0200 > Harald Arnesen wrote: > >> Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 14:37]: >> >> > The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than >> > trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact >> > the existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually >> > finding the maintainer), get their permission to update the package >> > or fix bugs and then do what you wanted to do in the first place. >> >> Get their permission? Aren't we using free software? > > If you want to update a packages code, you need to get at it, otherwise > it is called a fork, therefore you need the maintainers permission to > change it. If you can't get hold of the maintainer? -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dosemu package missing (SOLVED)
On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 10:35:39PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote: > Joel Roth wrote on 10.07.2018 20:50: > > Irrwahn wrote: > >> Joel Roth wrote on 10.07.2018 19:55: > >>> Hi maintainers > >>> > >>> I notice that dosemu is available through debian (all > >>> releases), but the packages are not in the devuan repo, > >>> at least for the ascii release. > >>> > >>> May be worth looking into > > > >> Hi Joel, > >> > >> dosemu version 1.4.0.7+20130105+b028d3f-2+b1 is in Devuan 2.0 ASCII. > >> > >> As it's in the contrib division, section otherosfs, you might have > >> to tweak your sources list to include 'contrib' in order to install > >> it via apt(-get|titude). > > > > Thanks, Urban. > > > > I followed a tutorial for upgrading to ascii. I think the > > instructions for setting up /etc/apt/sources.list for devuan > > could benefit from including contrib. > > > > You're welcome, Joel. > > Well, just as in Debian, the contrib and non-free sections are not > considered part of the distribution, and as such it's not particularly > surprising to find those not heavily advertised in (semi-)official > documents. (Although many of us have to rely on their presence, be it > to drive a particular piece of hardware or for other individually > important reasons.) > > The case of dosemu piqued my interest, as it being placed in the > contrib section would imply it is free software in itself, but depends > on packages from the non-free section. However, looking at the list of > dependencies I cannot make out anything coming from non-free. I'm not > sure what to make of this. Either I'm missing some important connection, > or it is some kind of glitch, possibly for historic reasons?! > I genuinely don't know. > > I have no experience with dosemu, and I do not know for what special > purpose you're using it, but just in case someone is looking for an > alternative from the free main (i.e. neither contrib nor non-free) > section, there's also dosbox, which I have successfully used in the > past to revive ancient software written for DOS. Okay, I'll try this. I had a few numbers to put in a spreadsheet, and for some reason reached for InstaCalc, a DOS spreadsheet. greetings, > Best regards, > Urban > -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > Yeah, I knew the link, and it correctly says that net-tools has not > seen a new release since 2011 (which is 7 years, not 17 :P). > > And thanks a lot for the link. This is the way a discussion should go > :) Yr. very welcome! On the arithmetic error, I plead caffeine underflow error. ;-> > Rick, thanks again for this other link: I will go through the thread, > promise, and I am sure I will learn something useful. My whole point > was that old does not necessarily mean bad (which seems to have become > fancy these days) or gold (which is another dangerous tenet). With which I heartily agree. I'll also admit that I grumbled mightily about ceasing to use nslookup, because, essentially, just decades of familiarity. Downright cranky I was about needing to learn 'dig'. But the latter's advantages were compelling, even before you stopped to consider nslookup's queasy-making use of antique BIND 4.x spaghetti code. -- Cheers, "I am a member of a civilization (IAAMOAC). Step back Rick Moenfrom anger. Study how awful our ancestors had it, yet r...@linuxmafia.com they struggled to get you here. Repay them by appreciating McQ! (4x80) the civilization you inherited." -- David Brin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dosemu package missing (SOLVED)
Joel Roth wrote on 10.07.2018 20:50: > Irrwahn wrote: >> Joel Roth wrote on 10.07.2018 19:55: >>> Hi maintainers >>> >>> I notice that dosemu is available through debian (all >>> releases), but the packages are not in the devuan repo, >>> at least for the ascii release. >>> >>> May be worth looking into > >> Hi Joel, >> >> dosemu version 1.4.0.7+20130105+b028d3f-2+b1 is in Devuan 2.0 ASCII. >> >> As it's in the contrib division, section otherosfs, you might have >> to tweak your sources list to include 'contrib' in order to install >> it via apt(-get|titude). > > Thanks, Urban. > > I followed a tutorial for upgrading to ascii. I think the > instructions for setting up /etc/apt/sources.list for devuan > could benefit from including contrib. > You're welcome, Joel. Well, just as in Debian, the contrib and non-free sections are not considered part of the distribution, and as such it's not particularly surprising to find those not heavily advertised in (semi-)official documents. (Although many of us have to rely on their presence, be it to drive a particular piece of hardware or for other individually important reasons.) The case of dosemu piqued my interest, as it being placed in the contrib section would imply it is free software in itself, but depends on packages from the non-free section. However, looking at the list of dependencies I cannot make out anything coming from non-free. I'm not sure what to make of this. Either I'm missing some important connection, or it is some kind of glitch, possibly for historic reasons?! I genuinely don't know. I have no experience with dosemu, and I do not know for what special purpose you're using it, but just in case someone is looking for an alternative from the free main (i.e. neither contrib nor non-free) section, there's also dosbox, which I have successfully used in the past to revive ancient software written for DOS. Best regards, Urban -- Sapere aude! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 09:41:11AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > > > Again, links before opinions: > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/net-tools/code/ci/master/tree/ > > > > net-tools might be obsolete for many functions, but it's still > > developed, and is surely not "unmaintained" since 17 years ago. > > Argue with Jon Corbet, then: > https://lwn.net/Articles/710533/ > > That was last year. I don't believe there's been a substantial > turnaround despite some checkins. (If I'm mistaken, I'lll find out when > I hear people whose judgment I trust say 'A miracle happened and > net-tools has been fully made reasonable to rely on, again.') Yeah, I knew the link, and it correctly says that net-tools has not seen a new release since 2011 (which is 7 years, not 17 :P). And thanks a lot for the link. This is the way a discussion should go :) [cut] > > Jon Corbet was on the glass-half-empty side of the discussion when he > covered procmail's status, but be sure to read the comment thread. > https://lwn.net/Articles/416901/ > [cut] Rick, thanks again for this other link: I will go through the thread, promise, and I am sure I will learn something useful. My whole point was that old does not necessarily mean bad (which seems to have become fancy these days) or gold (which is another dangerous tenet). HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Home server replacement hardware suggestions?
On 2018-07-10 11:41 AM, John Franklin wrote: On Jun 25, 2018, at 6:14 PM, taii...@gmx.com wrote: I have to say your current computer is more than powerful enough for your current uses and I would advise saving your money instead, perhaps instead just buy a SSD for the primary drive and some storage disks for storage. Your current system is also pre-PSP so it lacks AMD's version of the evil ME thus I very much suggest keeping it. If you insist on upgrading I would consider: [snip] Reinforcing Taiidan’s suggestions, something built around a low TDP CPU would be good. The power draw from the CPU is going to dominate the power consumption of the whole system, so going with something that has a low TDP will ensure you stay well inside your power budget. Desktop systems tend to be in the 65W to 95W zone, there are some 35W parts that are common in all-in-one systems, or look for something intended for laptops and embedded systems that are 15W TDP. Unfortunately, you can’t just buy a Core i3 7100U (15W TDP) and install it in your choice of motherboard and install all that in your favorite case. You’re looking at either barebones system (like an Intel NUC or a barebones Shuttle) or a mini-ITX+CPU kit. If you’re lucky, you can find a compact PC (think: one of the Dell small desktops) with a low TDP chip in it, probably a Celeron or Pentium Silver or the like. The FreeNAS forums will have some good hardware recommendations, although they may be biased towards systems with ECC memory support, a rare feature in the low TDP world. The good news is the last several years of CPU development have been all about performance per watt, not raw performance, so there are a lot of low TDP options out there with reasonable performance. Since your A8-3850 has a 100W TDP, just about anything will be an improvement. Good luck! The existing hardware is few years old and made up of desktop CPUs sharing a package with reasonably decent graphics processing, but not quite as bad as the picture you paint. It is quite a smart piece as long as you are not running something like Seti@home with your spare cycles. https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-a8-3850-apu-review,10.html Clarke ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dosemu package missing (SOLVED)
Irrwahn wrote: > Joel Roth wrote on 10.07.2018 19:55: > > Hi maintainers > > > > I notice that dosemu is available through debian (all > > releases), but the packages are not in the devuan repo, > > at least for the ascii release. > > > > May be worth looking into > Hi Joel, > > dosemu version 1.4.0.7+20130105+b028d3f-2+b1 is in Devuan 2.0 ASCII. > > As it's in the contrib division, section otherosfs, you might have > to tweak your sources list to include 'contrib' in order to install > it via apt(-get|titude). Thanks, Urban. I followed a tutorial for upgrading to ascii. I think the instructions for setting up /etc/apt/sources.list for devuan could benefit from including contrib. Joel > HTH, regards > Urban > > -- > Sapere aude! > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
I've still not got things working.
# iwconfig shows my USB network dongle to have the value: wlx2824ff1a1794
So in /etc/network/interfaces I have:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
allow hotplug eth0
iface inet eth0 dhcp
auto wlx2824ff1a1794
iface wlx2824ff1a1794 inet dhcp
wpa-driver nl80211
wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf
The file /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf has:
network={
ssid="ATT680"
#psk="..."
psk=...
}
# ifconfig returns:
eth0: flags=4163 mtu 1500
inet = 192.168.1.203 ...
...
wlx28924ff1a17894 flags=4099 mtu 1500
inet = 192.168.1.203 ...
...
I'm surprised to see both interfaces assigned an IP address even though
I'm currently using ethernet wired.
One problem is that no mail gets out. Exim main log says: "lookup failed
for all hosts in smarthost router: host_find_failed=ignore
hosts_all_ignore=defer. No IP address found for host... Is this normal,
or does it point to trouble?
Another problem is that I can't switch from eth0 to wlx2894ff1a1794. If
I do # ifconfig eth0 down and # ifconfig wlx2824ff1a up, I see in
# inconfig that eth0 has no stanza and that the wlx2824ffla1794
interface is not RUNNING. Can't ping or browse the web (failure in name
resolution).
If I restart the network, eth0 is RUNNING, but gets a different address:
168.192.1.212. wlx2824ff1a1974 is also RUNNING, but with old address.
I now have no internet access (ping times out), and to recover it I
have to bring wlx2824ff1a1794 down.
Haines Brown
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Re: [DNG] dosemu package missing
Joel Roth wrote on 10.07.2018 19:55: > Hi maintainers > > I notice that dosemu is available through debian (all > releases), but the packages are not in the devuan repo, > at least for the ascii release. > > May be worth looking into > Hi Joel, dosemu version 1.4.0.7+20130105+b028d3f-2+b1 is in Devuan 2.0 ASCII. As it's in the contrib division, section otherosfs, you might have to tweak your sources list to include 'contrib' in order to install it via apt(-get|titude). HTH, regards Urban -- Sapere aude! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] A Devuan kernel?
* Also worth noting this quote at the bottom of TFA: "Oh, Christ. It was obviously a joke, no government agency has ever asked me for a backdoor in Linux," Torvalds told Mashable via email. * Apologies for top posting with crappy mobile app On July 9, 2018 11:41:10 PM CDT, KatolaZ wrote: :: ::https://thehackernews.com/2013/09/us-government-asked-linus-torvalds-to.html ::https://falkvinge.net/2013/11/17/nsa-asked-linus-torvalds-to-install-backdoors-into-gnulinux/ :: ::which refer to the famous interview at LinuxCon 2013, and have nothing ::to do with the *existence* of an NSA backdoor in the Linux kernel, ::rather with the fact that the NSA had put pressure on Linus to put ::such a backdoor there. :: -- Sent from a Mobile device. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] dosemu package missing
Hi maintainers I notice that dosemu is available through debian (all releases), but the packages are not in the devuan repo, at least for the ascii release. May be worth looking into cheers, -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > Again, links before opinions: > > https://sourceforge.net/p/net-tools/code/ci/master/tree/ > > net-tools might be obsolete for many functions, but it's still > developed, and is surely not "unmaintained" since 17 years ago. Argue with Jon Corbet, then: https://lwn.net/Articles/710533/ That was last year. I don't believe there's been a substantial turnaround despite some checkins. (If I'm mistaken, I'lll find out when I hear people whose judgment I trust say 'A miracle happened and net-tools has been fully made reasonable to rely on, again.') > Let's make another example. procmail Sure, let's discuss procmail. Unlike net-tools, it's a very modestly scoped codebase and not central to system security. Since being orphaned, it's accumulated only two unfixed bugs with alleged security implications that informed observers consider seriously farfetched, not to mention actually being bugs in an Email Sanitizer project and Horde, not procmail itself. So, many including me consider it 'completed' more than it is 'orphaned', and continue to happily use it rather than aspiring replacement such as Maildrop, sieve, and sortmail. Jon Corbet was on the glass-half-empty side of the discussion when he covered procmail's status, but be sure to read the comment thread. https://lwn.net/Articles/416901/ > Is anybody here ready to claim that procmail is useless and we should > replace it just because its development ended 17 years ago, producing > a damn virtually perfect piece of software, that does *one* thing and > does it *well*, has been included in all the Linux and *BSD > distributions in the last 25 years, and did not require any > maintenance at all for 17 long years? o_O Certainly not me. But that didn't stop you from pretending as if I'd advanced that argument. Which was a waste of time on your part, but I hope you enjoyed the typing practice. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Home server replacement hardware suggestions?
> On Jun 25, 2018, at 6:14 PM, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > > I have to say your current computer is more than powerful enough for > your current uses and I would advise saving your money instead, perhaps > instead just buy a SSD for the primary drive and some storage disks for > storage. > Your current system is also pre-PSP so it lacks AMD's version of the > evil ME thus I very much suggest keeping it. > > If you insist on upgrading I would consider: [snip] Reinforcing Taiidan’s suggestions, something built around a low TDP CPU would be good. The power draw from the CPU is going to dominate the power consumption of the whole system, so going with something that has a low TDP will ensure you stay well inside your power budget. Desktop systems tend to be in the 65W to 95W zone, there are some 35W parts that are common in all-in-one systems, or look for something intended for laptops and embedded systems that are 15W TDP. Unfortunately, you can’t just buy a Core i3 7100U (15W TDP) and install it in your choice of motherboard and install all that in your favorite case. You’re looking at either barebones system (like an Intel NUC or a barebones Shuttle) or a mini-ITX+CPU kit. If you’re lucky, you can find a compact PC (think: one of the Dell small desktops) with a low TDP chip in it, probably a Celeron or Pentium Silver or the like. The FreeNAS forums will have some good hardware recommendations, although they may be biased towards systems with ECC memory support, a rare feature in the low TDP world. The good news is the last several years of CPU development have been all about performance per watt, not raw performance, so there are a lot of low TDP options out there with reasonable performance. Since your A8-3850 has a 100W TDP, just about anything will be an improvement. Good luck! jf -- John Franklin frank...@tux.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Rowland Penny wrote: > The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than > trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact > the existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually > finding the maintainer), get their permission to update the package > or fix bugs and then do what you wanted to do in the first place. And especially if it's to address things like changed kernel internals - in this case adding a lot of additional information/features. Often it can be the case that the old code isn't easily adapted in anything other than a "write whole new chunks from scratch" approach. By the time you've : made wholesale changes to the internal data structures (eg introducing flexibly sized arrays of values instead of fixed discrete values), made wholesale changes to the data collection routines (eg walking a tree of possible data values rather than reading a few hardcoded ones), and made wholesale changes to the UI (eg parsing new required options, outputting new (and variable) data values) - then it can often be a lot easier, cleaner, and less error prone to start again with a fresh sheet. How many times have we looked at something and though "if only we hadn't started from there". I've got that in the (new to us) house. The plumbing has quite a few "what were they thinking" 'features' - but stepping back, many of them make sense in that (for example) the bathroom plumbing was altered while there was still a hot water cylinder (& cupboard), later that cylinder was removed and a combi boiler fitted, it would have been disruptive to the (relatively newly tiled) bathroom to try and redo those parts of the previous work that no longer made sense. I'll be doing some more alterations myself, but this time I'll be in a position to rip a lot of it out and effectively start again - throwing out some of the historical baggage (I bet some of the plumbing is still pre-metric - ie 1/2" and 3/4" rather than 15mm and 22mm pipe). In other cases, it simply makes sense to gather a collection of "random stuff" into on integrated tool - I'm thinking about the "ip" command here. I bet there was a lot of duplicated stuff in the predecessors (eg route, ifconfig, et al) - with each util having similar code to (eg) interrogate the state of bits of the (IP) networking stack. In addition, it means having one tool (albeit a bigger one) to call on for a group of related functions - eg IP addressing and routing tables are closely and inextricably linked, why have two unrelated tools to manage them ? >> Get their permission? Aren't we using free software? > > If you want to update a packages code, you need to get at it, otherwise > it is called a fork, therefore you need the maintainers permission to > change it. If you don't get permission, then you need a new name - for the package and the binaries installed on the system - to avoid confusion. So then you have the same issue that people will complain "why did they have to change it ?". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] vivivi
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:34:35 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > So the only inequivocally remaining received gospel is that Emacs is > the Only True and Holy Editor. For the person not yet acquainted with Vim. /* Litt ducks and runs */ Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Intergenerational sniping: was who's tying up my port 80?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:46:46 +1000 Erik Christiansen wrote: > Ego drives young men to reinvent the wheel, then declaim "mine is > grand, and I deprecate (piss on) the old." Hi Erik, I think the preceding is a generalization accurate only anecdotally, and is the opposite of and as bad as people calling one a "neckbeard" because one prefers what came before systemd. There are two logical fallacies called "Appeal to Novelty" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_novelty) and "Appeal to Tradition" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition) that deal with assumption of truth or falsehood based solely on age. To make your statement true, you would have needed the word "some" before "young". To make it a complete articulation of the truth, you'd have needed to say "and some young men and some women too." If you deduce that I'm bothered by this, you're right: I think inter-generational sniping obscures the issues. SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] vivivi
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:34:35 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > So the only inequivocally remaining received gospel is that Emacs is the > Only True and Holy Editor. Heretic ! True Believers worship at the Shrine of VI... Cheers, Ron. -- La marine est un art, une science, et un snobisme. -- Roger Glachant -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Home server replacement hardware suggestions?
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 13:13:00 -0400 Clarke Sideroad wrote: > On 2018-06-25 08:03 AM, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote: > > I have an old desktop at home running Devuan ascii for some basic > > server/file storage functions. Unfortunately the disk sounds like > > it's almost dead so I took a clonezilla backup and now want to find > > some replacement hardware. Looking to get something a bit more > > power conservative than this old desktop tower. > > > > The old machine has an AMD A8-3850 APU with 1TB HDD and 4GB Ram, > > sitting on a A75M-HVS motherboard. I'm hoping I can just build/buy > > a replacement of some sort and load the clonezilla backup directly > > onto the new disk and just boot up, reinstalling the grub boot > > loader from livecd? Or will I have to reinstall if it's going onto > > different hardware? > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions on what to get or where to look? > > Intel vs AMD? > My suggestion would be to keep your existing hardware, as it would > seem more than sufficient for the required functions. I would throw > a couple of 2TB hybrid SATA drives in there and give it some more > RAM, I think the board will support 16GB, but 8GB would probably be > OK. Besides the preceding, I'd recommend spending $100 more and buying a 256GB SSD to serve as /. That way all /etc, /usr/bin, and /usr/local/bin load lightning fast, while your /home based data files have room to roam on the coupl 2tb hybrid SATAs. The other good thing about doing it this way is you can format your SATA drives UEFI to get every last GB (if they happen to be bigger than 2.4GB each), yet boot mbr to the little SSD. This is the way my Daily Driver Desktop is set up, and it works marvelously. SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:36:46 +0200 Harald Arnesen wrote: > Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 14:37]: > > > The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than > > trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact > > the existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually > > finding the maintainer), get their permission to update the package > > or fix bugs and then do what you wanted to do in the first place. > > Get their permission? Aren't we using free software? If you want to update a packages code, you need to get at it, otherwise it is called a fork, therefore you need the maintainers permission to change it. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 14:37]: > The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than > trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact the > existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually finding the > maintainer), get their permission to update the package or fix bugs > and then do what you wanted to do in the first place. Get their permission? Aren't we using free software? -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] [OT] vivivi
On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 06:41:10AM +0200, KatolaZ wrote: > > Being a "veteran" has never been a sufficient excuse from the > obligation to support your claims with actual facts. This is not a > religion, and there has never been anything like a revealed gospel in > the free software community[1]. > > HND > > KatolaZ > > [1] The only exception being that Emacs is the Only True and Holy > Editor, and that ViViVi is the number of The Beast, as revealed by the > venerable St. IGNUcius during his peregrinations around the > world... :P Last time I looked in Revelation (in an Anglican priest's bible) it was clearly stated that the number of the Beast was 626, not 666. I asked the priest about that and she told mem there were translations of other versions that had 666 in it, but that her version was more authoritative, whatever that means. So the only inequivocally remaining received gospel is that Emacs is the Only True and Holy Editor. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:08:48 +0200 Harald Arnesen wrote: > Rick Moen [2018-07-10 10:30]: > > > Was there something that lead you to believe it had become illegal > > to use unmaintained code? Otherwise, I find the basis of your > > question quite difficult to understand. > > Don't be ridiculous. I just think it would be better to maintain the > old commands instead of writing something new and different. > > Yes, I know I am free to maintain them myself. The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact the existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually finding the maintainer), get their permission to update the package or fix bugs and then do what you wanted to do in the first place. Whilst I agree it would be nice to maintain the old packages, sometimes it just isn't possible. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another angry systemd user
All the more reason for devuan to push forward. Thank you to the devs! On July 10, 2018 5:59:13 AM CDT, "J. Fahrner" wrote: ::Nice to read (experience of a german computer scientist) :: ::English: ::https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de=en=y=_t=de=UTF-8=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danisch.de%2Fblog%2F2018%2F07%2F10%2Fsystemd-war-eine-massive-fehlentscheidung%2F==url :: ::Deutsch: ::http://www.danisch.de/blog/2018/07/10/systemd-war-eine-massive-fehlentscheidung/ :: ::Jochen :: :: ::___ ::Dng mailing list ::Dng@lists.dyne.org ::https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Sent from a Mobile device.___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Rick Moen [2018-07-10 10:30]: > Was there something that lead you to believe it had become illegal to > use unmaintained code? Otherwise, I find the basis of your question > quite difficult to understand. Don't be ridiculous. I just think it would be better to maintain the old commands instead of writing something new and different. Yes, I know I am free to maintain them myself. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Il giorno Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:32:07 +0300 Lars Noodén ha scritto: > On 07/09/2018 11:23 PM, Harald Arnesen wrote: >> Rick Moen [2018-07-09 21:01]: >> >>> 'netstat' in the 21st Century is spelled 'ss'. ;-> >>> https://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/ >>> >> >> Why, oh why replace well-known, portable commands with Linux-only >> commands that are no better? > > Looking at the comparison table in that link, not only are the new > utilities and order of magnitude more complex they also fail to deliver > many of the functions available in the normal utilities. Actually there are many things that make net-tools obsolete to modern networking standards. They do not take advantage of features that were introduced in the kernel in the last dozen years: https://loicpefferkorn.net/2016/03/linux-network-metrics-why-you-should-use-nstat-instead-of-netstat/ However, only nstat retrieves all the metrics provided by the kernel. Netstat seems to skip some of them, breakdown of metrics number per section: [...] Why? Just because netstat maintains a static table of metrics entries, while nstat parses the whole /proc files. Since netstat is obsolete, new entries are not taken into account. [...] However ss is way more comprehensive when it comes to TCP connection internals, by reading /proc/net/tcp. For instance, for an established TCP connection you can retrieve almost every number that characterize the state of an established TCP connection: [...] Another super feature of ss is its filters based on the states of a connection, more handy than grepping netstat output: Then, ifconfig is plain useless when it comes to dealing with multiple IP address assigments to the same interface. Another limitation of ifconfig is it's counters size, that wrap after every 4GiB of data*; the kernel's counters have been larger than that for many years. And it's dropped packets counter meaning is hardly any useful, as it was not updated to reflect the change in what the kernel counts as a dropped packet#. *) https://serverfault.com/questions/163404/ifconfig-showing-wrong-rx-tx-byte-count #) https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/ifconfig-reports-packet-drop-4175507861-print/ Beginning with kernel 2.6.37, it has been changed the meaning of dropped packet count. Before, dropped packets was most likely due to an error. Now, the rx_dropped counter shows statistics for dropped frames because of: Softnet backlog full Bad / Unintended VLAN tags Unknown / Unregistered protocols IPv6 frames when the server is not configured for IPv6 If any frames meet those conditions, they are dropped before the protocol stack and the rx_dropped counter is incremented. > Newer is not better. Different is not better. Only better is better. In the case of net-tools and iptools, newer is indeed much better. Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Another angry systemd user
Nice to read (experience of a german computer scientist) English: https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de=en=y=_t=de=UTF-8=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danisch.de%2Fblog%2F2018%2F07%2F10%2Fsystemd-war-eine-massive-fehlentscheidung%2F==url Deutsch: http://www.danisch.de/blog/2018/07/10/systemd-war-eine-massive-fehlentscheidung/ Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 01:30:41AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Harald Arnesen (skog...@gmail.com): > > > So if my main machine runs *BSD, I will have to use a totally different > > set of commands on my Linux laptop? > > No, you can continue to use a set of utilities on your Linux laptop that > have been unmaintained code for 17 years and cannot handle source-based > routing, QoS, VLAN, bonding, bridges, showing all IP addresses assigned > to an interface, removing an IPv4 address from an interface, etc. > Nothing stopping you. Again, links before opinions: https://sourceforge.net/p/net-tools/code/ci/master/tree/ net-tools might be obsolete for many functions, but it's still developed, and is surely not "unmaintained" since 17 years ago. I am not saying the alternatives are not good or than we shouldn't use them. I am just replying with facts to something that was not factually correct ;) > > Was there something that lead you to believe it had become illegal to > use unmaintained code? Otherwise, I find the basis of your question > quite difficult to understand. > Let's make another example. procmail seems to be one of those pieces of software which is currently unmaintained (even if this statemen is somehow dubious, atm). The last stable release is 3.22 from September 2001 (yes, 2001, almost 17 years ago). There have been no bug reports for more than 17 years, and surely not because procmail is not used any more. Is anybody here ready to claim that procmail is useless and we should replace it just because its development ended 17 years ago, producing a damn virtually perfect piece of software, that does *one* thing and does it *well*, has been included in all the Linux and *BSD distributions in the last 25 years, and did not require any maintenance at all for 17 long years? o_O Oh, come on ;) The staggering majority of us will never have the privilege of developing anything remotely close to that. If the history of only 10% of the software around today was only comparable to that of procmail, we would live in a much much better world, software-wise speaking... HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Quoting Harald Arnesen (skog...@gmail.com): > So if my main machine runs *BSD, I will have to use a totally different > set of commands on my Linux laptop? No, you can continue to use a set of utilities on your Linux laptop that have been unmaintained code for 17 years and cannot handle source-based routing, QoS, VLAN, bonding, bridges, showing all IP addresses assigned to an interface, removing an IPv4 address from an interface, etc. Nothing stopping you. Was there something that lead you to believe it had become illegal to use unmaintained code? Otherwise, I find the basis of your question quite difficult to understand. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
On 10.07.18 09:32, Lars Noodén wrote: > > Why, oh why replace well-known, portable commands with Linux-only > > commands that are no better? > > Looking at the comparison table in that link, not only are the new > utilities and order of magnitude more complex they also fail to deliver > many of the functions available in the normal utilities. Scrolling through the document, I found it an information-free artifact, devoid of any reason to favour the new over the standard. > Newer is not better. Different is not better. Only better is better. > ... and most of these new utilities don't cut the mustard from what I've > experienced with them. Ego drives young men to reinvent the wheel, then declaim "mine is grand, and I deprecate (piss on) the old." (E.g. the only pretext for reimplementing the simulator for AVR microcontrollers was that the new bloke needed a vehicle to massage his C++ ego, so the eminently serviceable C version had to go.) It is not possible to guide them to direct their energies to maintaining the community's existing tools, because it is all about the new egos, not supporting standard tools. No problem. I continue to use ifconfig and netstat, though I have admittedly moved from nslookup to dig. > I haven't decided about ss yet however. Tried it yesterday, after learning that it exists, but am underwhelmed, and cannot see any need to change. Erik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Unbound and EUI addresses
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi, recently I started logging and blocking EUI-64 addresses out of my network. For long time now I have privacy extension enabled on all interfaces. But what I seen is that unbound seems to not care about privacy extension and uses always the EUI-64 address for outbound requests. There seems to be no way to configure unbound to not use that address except to manually configure a outbound address via outgoing-interface. This seems to be a special Devuan (and Debian) problem as my Gentoo box seems to be ok. Anybody an idea why and how to solve it? ~> grep . /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/*/use_tempaddr /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/use_tempaddr:2 /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/default/use_tempaddr:2 /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth0/use_tempaddr:2 /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/lo/use_tempaddr:2 ~> cat /etc/network/interfaces ... iface eth0 inet6 auto privext 2 ... (you can also use "pre-up /sbin/sysctl --quiet --write net.ipv6.conf.eth0.use_tempaddr=2" instead of privext. Currently I have no more ideas how to solve that. Regards Klaus - -- Klaus Ethgen http://www.ethgen.ch/ pub 4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753 62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1 iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEMWF28vh4/UMJJLQEpnwKsYAZ9qwFAltEWWoACgkQpnwKsYAZ 9qw5/wwAp8QJUZBci9VFGRDvXfOOcHWOHbSAEKA4QcdOnOPQUkUxqPpz7NNq2a6V SsZUp5GBuKWZeSStGCqqtA/VXOuVTUFbiL6N/13kBOzoGm4VTy/ig6Bjd3pZfr7Z fHCZLJQnvFN4/nkAmF57E9U5bmP35vjPgxcYpo6yqYCHX0XNKkdl5XhUmjrDiozo 2K8Ahwb97iE4WNucgNPaA/2kyANxD8f31QwoyaL0E6iS78RzTIoqghamkGUwEVpG y4LjcWaleENULAhrylpw2LbejQFPWfkC1y2BrPpz0atV1hVVaM+whRfjo6K/of7Z eM8Ur6DouC0bfXgXoGLVNTMwaEPDu4L30ea29uoBaQnG6K1Ii53Z31XKOPqHlJYZ z29wkrSUFnUpq9ty8qGuQEyAkfZ8/mlLc4CH4dg6l7t05Ifs4V/DbR+9POlaU6Bn Vx1djV+LKq9jBspQpHMbmMdl+/vYD8jNhrcaSM2iq2hrOoQntN0NaFJA9QGHFt9a nUhuBUIW =kv5F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
Rick Moen [2018-07-10 00:31]: > Quoting Harald Arnesen (skog...@gmail.com): > >> Why, oh why replace well-known, portable commands with Linux-only >> commands that are no better? > > At your convenience look up how many years the net-tools codebase has > been orphaned. Can't remember, but it's many.[1] There is also > functionality supported in the iproute2 tools but not in the net-tools > old-standard ones. So if my main machine runs *BSD, I will have to use a totally different set of commands on my Linux laptop? -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?
On 07/09/2018 11:23 PM, Harald Arnesen wrote: > Rick Moen [2018-07-09 21:01]: > >> 'netstat' in the 21st Century is spelled 'ss'. ;-> >> https://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/ > > Why, oh why replace well-known, portable commands with Linux-only > commands that are no better? Looking at the comparison table in that link, not only are the new utilities and order of magnitude more complex they also fail to deliver many of the functions available in the normal utilities. Newer is not better. Different is not better. Only better is better. ... and most of these new utilities don't cut the mustard from what I've experienced with them. I haven't decided about ss yet however. /Lars ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
