Re: [DNG] Devuan Jessie End of Life (EOL) archiving
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 05:58:11 -0300 pekman wrote: > Slitaz is very good Linux distribution for old computers. See > slitaz.org The latest "news" is from 20 May 2015: http://slitaz.org/en/news/ -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] terminal paste failure
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 10:02:05 -0400 Haines Brown wrote: > This morning I find that the wiress mouse can cut and paste between > terminals or nano sessions even with the wired mouse disconnected. > Whether the problem is permanently in the past remains to be seen. Try "reset" in the terminal, sometimes this helps. See "man reset" for more info. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:35:40 +0100 tux...@sapo.pt wrote: > The devuan images are tested, > And so, I personally, advise always to stick with its kernels, but > anyone is free to mix what they want too :) The Armbian kernel works fine. Remember there is no Beowulf image yet for the OPi-Zero. > That in so many boards,... it could be a batch that went wrong, or > badly designed boards.. Must be someting like that. One of these board just stopped replying to pings and is not accessible through ssh, but each night it sends an email telling me there are updates for that board. I'm running Devuan Beowulf with an Armbian kernel and a "performance" governor. Someone said that switching to "performance" seems to resolve the issue. R. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:15:57 +0100 g4sra via Dng wrote: > > No need IMHO, it was the core issue... > > So you have solved the issue, great! Nope, we found a Quick and Dirty workaround -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:48:16 +0100 g4sra via Dng wrote: > >> How do you know the mount is failing ? > > > > It's not mounted after mount command. > > I have not seen any evidence of that, can you point me to it please. No need IMHO, it was the core issue... -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 21:49:50 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > > And an earlier suggestion to copy important things to a smaller disk > > and use that disk, does that probably solve the issue? > > A smaller disk is no option, since this is my media server at home. > It is filled with 66%. I meant just to find out if a smaller disk was mounting correctly. > My mount scripts seem to work around this problem, so I give up in > further investigating what is happening. Ok, I understand that you get moreorless crazy of this issue. Fortunately the nofail option brought you a bit further. HAND R. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 20:31:22 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Am 2020-06-14 20:07, schrieb d...@d404.nl: > > It is a kernel parameter not a module parameter. You have to add it > > to your kernel boot line. > > Ok, I found out how to do that. It's in /boot/boot.ini > But that made no difference to my problem. > > This is my current setup: > /etc/fstab has the mount option nofail, so the boot does not hang on > mountall. > > I have a additional init script mounthdd: What happens if you change the content of that script: #!/bin/dash echo 5 > /sys/module/usb_storage/parameters/delay_use in a script /etc/rcS.d/00test.sh, just for test, normally you must set a link. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 19:11:38 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Am 2020-06-14 19:07, schrieb J. Fahrner via Dng: > > modinfo: ERROR: Module usb_storage not found. > > Maybe they have their own drivers for usb? > > # find /lib/modules/3.16.82+/kernel/drivers -name '*storage*' > /lib/modules/3.16.82+/kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/g_mass_storage.ko > /lib/modules/3.16.82+/kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/usb_f_mass_storage.ko $ find /lib/modules/5.6.0-2-amd64/kernel/drivers -name '*storage*' /lib/modules/5.6.0-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/storage /lib/modules/5.6.0-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/storage/usb-storage.ko /lib/modules/5.6.0-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/function/usb_f_mass_storage.ko Or the module is built in the kernel. What tells "modinfo g_mass_storage"? If it's the same module as usb_storage having the same parameters, then: echo "options g_mass_storage delay_use=5" > \ /etc/modprobe.d/g_mass_storage.conf It's a pretty old kernel, if it doesn't work and the module is built in, one thing you might try is to put: #!/bin/dash echo 5 > /sys/module/usb_storage/parameters/delay_use in a script /etc/rcS.d/00test.sh HTH -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 18:38:48 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Am 2020-06-14 17:25, schrieb richard lucassen via Dng: > > echo "options usb_storage delay_use=5" > > > /etc/modprobe.d/usb_storage.conf > > seems not to work. > > After boot: > > cat /sys/module/usb_storage/parameters/delay_use > 1 That's rather strange. From "modinfo usb_storage": parm: delay_use:seconds to delay before using a new device (uint) And what happens if you load the module in advance?: echo "usb_storage" >> /etc/modules -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:24:01 +0200 richard lucassen via Dng wrote: Oops: echo "options usb_storage delay_use=5" /etc/modprobe.d/usb_storage.conf must be: echo "options usb_storage delay_use=5" > /etc/modprobe.d/usb_storage.conf -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 14:12:21 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Very big device. Trying to use READ CAPACITY You may try this: echo "options usb_storage delay_use=5" /etc/modprobe.d/usb_storage.conf https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=125831 R. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 13:03:13 +0200
"J. Fahrner" wrote:
> But if I do it interactively with "sudo mount /hdd" the drive gets
> mounted and the waiting daemons are started.
>
> I'm very confused...
When you mount it interactively the path is different and maybe it's
waiting for some input.
Try to add to the script:
PATH=${PATH}:/sbin:/usr/sbin
and
mount /dev/disk/ /mnt/mountpoint http://contact.xaq.nl/
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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 13:03:13 +0200 "J. Fahrner" wrote: > But if I do it interactively with "sudo mount /hdd" the drive gets > mounted and the waiting daemons are started. > > I'm very confused... It's weird. What does "dmesg" tell? dmesg > /tmp/dmesg and look if there are any messages there -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 08:21:51 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Am 2020-06-13 22:10, schrieb richard lucassen via Dng: > > I have no idea. But mountall is in runlevel S, not 2. What if you > > mount it explicitely in a temporary script > > called /etc/rcS.d/99mount.sh ? That > > is before runlevel 2 starts. > > Looks like it has something to do with huge_file support: > https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-905312-start-0.html Yes, I already ran into such an issue a few years ago. I mounted a disk created ext4 with a newer Debian on a machine running an older Debian and it would not mount (at all). I looked it up in a script I made and for me it was the metadata_csum option that was inserted by the newer Debian and the old one did not support this. So the trick was to format the disk without that option: -- 8< - mkfs.ext4 -O '^metadata_csum' /dev/mmcblk0p3 https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 21:09:06 +0200 "J. Fahrner" wrote: > > No, but I asked you why not create the root filesystem on that disk. > > If "mount -a" does not work in runlevel 2, why should it work in boot > stage 1? I have no idea. But mountall is in runlevel S, not 2. What if you mount it explicitely in a temporary script called /etc/rcS.d/99mount.sh ? That is before runlevel 2 starts. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 21:07:37 +0200 richard lucassen via Dng wrote: > No, maybe it has got something to do with these "big disk" messages. > Wouldn't it be an idea to copy a part of that dist to a "not such a > big disk" and see what happens? s/dist/disk/ -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 20:28:03 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Am 2020-06-13 20:18, schrieb richard lucassen via Dng: > > That was the "rootwait" parameter as I said somewhere. Used for USB > > and MMC disks. > > "The rootwait kernel parameter only affects the first stage of boot, > while the kernel is waiting for its initial root device" > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14806294/linux-kernel-parameter-rootwait-being-ignored#14806347 > > That has nothing to do with my problem. No, maybe it has got something to do with these "big disk" messages. Wouldn't it be an idea to copy a part of that dist to a "not such a big disk" and see what happens? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 20:28:03 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > "The rootwait kernel parameter only affects the first stage of boot, > while the kernel is waiting for its initial root device" > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14806294/linux-kernel-parameter-rootwait-being-ignored#14806347 > > That has nothing to do with my problem. No, but I asked you why not create the root filesystem on that disk. I have several Orange Pi's using a USB disk as root device. That works perfectly well. Also on PCEngine's Apu, see its lilo config: image=/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.223 label=4.9.223 read-only append="rootwait root=/dev/sda3 console=ttyS0,115200n8" R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:50:29 +0200 Didier Kryn wrote: > I had a problem around 15 years ago booting a Powerpc SBC with > rootfs on a USB disk and without initramfs. around 15 years ago. Even > though the disk was powered on its own, it didn't start spinning > before the driver started it. I solved it by adding a delay to the > kernel before mounting the rootfs - there was a parameter for that. > > Maybe it's just enough to add such a delay before trying to mount > your USB disk. That was the "rootwait" parameter as I said somewhere. Used for USB and MMC disks. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 10:20:46 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Thats exactly what I'm expecting, waiting indefinitely. The same as > mounting in fstab without nofail option. The nofail means that it wil mount automatically, but if the disk is absent it won't give errors. But it does not wait for the device! > I can't experiment here. If it does not boot I have to remove the > emmc card and undo the change on my pc. ok, I assume it's u-boot? In that case you can easily try to boot from another disk. But apparently you do not have access to the device? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 09:55:54 +0200 "J. Fahrner" wrote: > Am 2020-06-13 09:49, schrieb richard lucassen: > > What is on that disk? Why not make that disk the root filesystem and > > pass "rootwait" to the kernel? > > I'm afraid that won't work either. If there are problems mounting the > disk at this early stage, even the root filesystem will not mount. That is why there is a rootwait option: rootwait[KNL] Wait (indefinitely) for root device to show up. Useful for devices that are detected asynchronously (e.g. USB and MMC devices). It waits for the USB HDD to spin up. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:52:18 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Am 2020-06-13 08:25, schrieb J. Fahrner via Dng: > > nofail was a good hint. Now the system boots, but the usb disk is > > still not mounted. "mount -a" mounts it without errors after boot. > > What is the best way to run "mount -a" before any initscripts in > runlevel 2? > > There is a script /etc/init.d/mountall.sh, but this only runs in > runlevel S. Whats the purpose of this script? /etc/rcS.d/ contains scripts that run before any other runlevel. That's why "mountall" is there. > The script provides "mountall". Can I make daemons that need the > external disk dependend on "mountall". What is on that disk? Why not make that disk the root filesystem and pass "rootwait" to the kernel? Anyhow, you may try this: #/bin/dash ### BEGIN INIT INFO # Provides: disk # Required-Start: # Required-Stop: # Default-Start: S # Default-Stop: # Short-Description: prepare disk at boot time ### END INIT INFO case $1 in start) # Edit this: /bin/mount /dev/disk /mnt/mountpoint ;; esac put this in /etc/init.d/mount-disk.sh run: update-rc.d mount-disk.sh defaults and check if there is a link in /etc/rcS.d/ called S00mount-disk.sh Just a guess. Not tested of course. My 2cts, R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 04:41:17 -0700 Rick Moen via Dng wrote: > > Yes and no: > > > > -n Use SNTP (old RFC 2030, currently RFC 5905) instead of the RFC > > 868 time protocol. > > > > # rdate -n ntp.xs4all.nl > > Fri Jun 12 12:07:04 CEST 2020 > > Point taken. SNTP _is_ worthy of respect -- but I'd personally rather > have and use full NTP tools, and, given that the later are around and > standard, I don't also need one that does just SNTP (or that plus RFC > 868 Time Protocol). I run openntpd and on boards without RTC I made a /etc/init.d/setboottime using rdate that is started right after the network comes up. After that openntpd and all other scripts find a clock that is not at 1-1-1970 01:00. I know openntpd has an option to set the clock before it starts but at that time I had some problems with it so I stayed with rdate. I used to use ntp and ntpdate -B, but as I switched to openntpd I resolved the non-RTC issue with rdate. Remember that is just the clock of a small board, not a stratum 1 server ;-) R. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab
On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 17:01:14 +0200 "J. Fahrner via Dng" wrote: > Any ideas how to debug this problem? > > This is the fstab entry: > > LABEL=Elements /hdd ext4 defaults 0 2 Try to add "nofail" or "noauto": LABEL=Elements /hdd ext4 defaults,nofail 0 2 LABEL=Elements /hdd ext4 defaults,noauto 0 2 Just to see if it comes up. Just my 2 cts, R. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 01:19:50 -0700 Rick Moen via Dng wrote: > > Have a look at "rdate": > > I'm glad it works for you, but no. > > RFC 868 Time Protocol was obsoleted when NTP became ubiquotous in the > 1980s. IMO, there's no point in keeping rdate(8) around when there > are multiple good NTP implementations available. Yes and no: -n Use SNTP (old RFC 2030, currently RFC 5905) instead of the RFC 868 time protocol. # rdate -n ntp.xs4all.nl Fri Jun 12 12:07:04 CEST 2020 :-) -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:09:37 -0700 Rick Moen via Dng wrote: > If running ntpdate, depending on how much skew there is from correct > time, you might need the '-B' option. Quoting the man page: Have a look at "rdate": $ apropos rdate rdate (8)- set the system's date from a remote host I use it on boards without RTC, just after the network comes up and before openntpd takes over. No need for "fake-hwclock". -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 03:50:54 +0100 tux...@sapo.pt wrote: > > As I need to apply a power cycle I suppose it is not a software > > issue (is that right?). I'm just trying the Ascii image to see what > > will happen, but I'm not very hopefull. > > > > Has anyone seen such issues with these boards? > > problems with rtc clock are not uncommon, the need for a power > cycle, seems to be.. > > This discrepancies, in the date, .. how many days it takes to > happen, does you have any Idea? > does the Boards are properly powerup?I mean suficient levels of > Voltage/Current.. > > Try to update the date with something like 'ntpdate ntp_server_ip' > And see is that helps, if yes then you can run it via a cronjob, > from time to time.. No, even cronjobs do not work or give segmentation fault. It must be the hardware. There must be a batch with these issues, I'm not the only one BTW. I wonder if it has got something to do with the wifi chip. A crash occurs earlier if you load the kernel module. > For beowulf only orangepi_zero_plus2 image is available.. > > Try to install the Devuan ascii image: > https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_ascii/embedded/README.txt The ASCII image is ok, but I updated this image to Beowulf and I used Armbian kernel with it. But I fear it will crash again. Anyway, I just got some Rasberry Pi Zero-W now and I think I will stay with these boards. Remember I have also Orange Pi PC, different CPU, suffering from the same issues. R. -- richard lucassen https://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 20:56:30 +0200 richard lucassen via Dng wrote: Oh, BTW, kudos for the one who made these images. Just the strict necessary. No bloat or junk. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Orange Pi Zero/Orange Pi PC
Hello list, I just installed the Ascii image for the Orange Pi Zero (H2 CPU). I have a bunch (20) of these OPi Zero's, running a SysV version of Debian. Anyway, in practice *all* of these units are unstable (some services stop working, clock at a weird time like 1937 or 2134). Even a reboot does not help. To get things back in order a power cycle is necessary. The Orange Pi PC also suffers from this phenomenon (H3 CPU). Switching on the wireless interface speeds up the appearance of the problem. When it's idle there's no problem. I also tried to set the max CPU freq to 800 MHz, but no way. These devices have different tasks and thus different user space software. As I need to apply a power cycle I suppose it is not a software issue (is that right?). I'm just trying the Ascii image to see what will happen, but I'm not very hopefull. Has anyone seen such issues with these boards? R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current state of VPN software ?
On 4/8/20 1:14 PM, Simon Hobson wrote: > It's been a while since I last did anything with VPNs on Linux, and I recall > there being 3 options, some of which were "less well supported" than others. > I'm looking to setup a site-site tunnel so I can remotely access stuff at > mum's (she's in isolation because of this Covid 19 stuff) and using remote > desktop control, connect her Mac to a video call. > > So what's the state of play in the VPN on Linux world - both ends would be > running Devuan (one end an AMD64 VM, the other end rPi) ? Last thing I used > was OpenVPN which AIUI is completely non-interoperable with anything else, > while FreeSwan and OpenSwan were having a bun fight. Good timing! WireGuard is in the kernel and version 1.0.0 has been released. Devuan doesn't provide a package yet, but it is pretty easy to build and install from source. I've been running it for months, replacing OpenVPN Tunnels. WireGuard is much faster, and I found it easier to configure and debug. As I understand it, FreeSwan is defunct. but OpenSwan is around. Can't comment on it, as I haven't used IPSEC VPNs > > Simon -Richard ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Protect laptop from power supply voltage transients
Using capacitors as spike as a spike protector is lame at best. The gold standard for me is a MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor). It short circuits anything over it's rated voltage and does so so quickly, that semiconductors are protected from spikes from lightning, static, etc. On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 4:15 AM, aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > Hi, > > > On 30/03/18 11:00, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > Il giorno Fri, 30 Mar 2018 09:32:13 +0200 > Edward Bartolo <edb...@gmail.com> <edb...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > > On 29/03/2018, Simon Hobson <li...@thehobsons.co.uk> <li...@thehobsons.co.uk> > wrote: > > Edward Bartolo <edb...@gmail.com> <edb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > What you wrote reminded me of a dangerous filter that consists of two > high voltage series-connected capacitors connected in parallel with > the mains with their middle point earthed. Since these capacitors are > almost certainly the same value they will devide the mains voltage by > two. This fact can be verified with a high impedance voltmeter > connected with the disconnected earth connector and one terminal of > the mains supply. > > Yes. Doesn't need to be that high an impedance meter either, a while ago > (as part of a discussion in another forum) I just did a quick check with > a basic digital multimeter and measured about 95V on my Macbook Pro. And > as I mentioned, there's enough current there to be able to feel it. > > When I was studying Physics for my A Levels and at university, all my > professors insisted upon using high impedance voltmeters. A cheap > digital voltmeter/multimeter can easily have an impedance of a few > megaohms which is quite high. > > I remember, once I had a practical Physics experiment that involved > getting the characteristics for a transistor. My fellow students used > old moving coil voltmeters and got terrible results. I asked to be > granted permission to use a digital voltmeter for the experiment and > got excellent results for all three characteristics. After, that the > university physics lab was equipped with new digital voltmeters. > > When I was doing the same kind of studies and lab sessions we were > purposely given analog voltmeters and our task was to: > > 1) rate the voltmeter's internal impedance; > 2) measure resistors' impedance; > 3) apply the necessary corrections to the mearurements in (2) to get much > better than "terrible" results. > > The point was that on students more emphasis was put in learning the right > procedures and to discern and correct the various factors that affect lab > equipment correctness rather than getting the best results in the shortest > and easiest possible way, which is what professionals are expected to do when > they carry out their duties. > > > Alessandro > > > I also learned physics through an open university, but i never did such > experiment. > > > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > -- Richard Andrews http://ae-tool.com ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] DNS
The original compiles and runs on my Devuan Jessie system. Source: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/djbdns-1.05.tar.gz Instructions: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/install.html On 02/22/2018 04:22 PM, John Crisp wrote: > Hi, > > looking for a little advice. > > Have spun up a small Devuan instance for a openvpn server for a friend. > > I built a similar system for myself some while back in CentOS 6 and used > ndjbdns for tinydns and dnscache. > > That has worked well and I wanted to replicate that to Devuan but... > no ndjbdns package (that I can see). Nor dbndns or djbdns. > > I found a git repo here > > https://github.com/pjps/ndjbdns/wiki/Debian-Installation > > It does compile (after fixing the readme bug) but seems the install > actually thinks it is going into a RH box.. > > Plus systemd junk too. > > Anyone know where I can get the requisite files or have any alternative > suggestions ? > > B. Rgds > John > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifconfig deprecated?
On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:55:36 -0500 Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > nono, as I wrote: that script doesn't works anymore, if ran on a > > freshly debootstrapped version of Debian 9. It seemed that rc.local > > wasn't executed anymore. But there is some confusion, since both > > brctl and ifconfig are legitimately deprecated. Assuming you have > > done better checking, then the failure may be caused by them > > bailing out. > > ifconfig is deprecated? What is to be used instead? ip R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My buddy told me there's an idiot born every minute
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:39:31 -0400 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote: > On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:11:11 +0200 > richard lucassen <mailingli...@lucassen.org> wrote: > > > > My buddy told me there's an idiot born every minute. > > > > We live in an idiocracy nowadays. > > Given there are 135 million births a year worldwide, out of which > 2.2% are more than 2 standard deviations away from the mean, this > gives us 5.6 idiots born every minute ;-3) Cheers, Problem is that there are a few "leaders" out there who are far more than two standard deviations away from the mean. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Clam
Running Devuan Jessie and finding packages that require libsystemd0. In particular, clamav-daemon does. This is widely used software. Any hope for it to eventually be completely free of systemd? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] eudev [was: vdev]
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 08:08:05 +1200 Daniel Reurich <dan...@centurion.net.nz> wrote: > > I've been at work for a week or so and today I looked at the DNG > > list for the latest activities around vdev, but there has almost > > been no activity on vdev as far as I can see. OTOH, last week I > > tested eudev on a separate partition and that seems to work quite > > well. > > You are mistaken, there has been lots of activity around vdev and > making it installable. I still encounter problems. When running a kernel without initramfs one or another way vdev refuses to start because /var/log/vdev is not writable. The only way to make it start is to use /dev/null as logfile and restart it in rc.local. > > I think it might be a good idea to leave vdev for what it is and > > to switch to eudev. It is moreorless maintained (the latest change > > is two weeks ago) and it works well. We should not reinvent the > > wheel IMHO. And as there has been no response from the original > > vdev author, I think it's better to package eudev for Devuan and to > > make it available for Jessie and Ascii. The latest version is 3.2. > > Well quite frankly you don't get to make that call. Eudev is just a > hack that from what I gather is isolating the systemd-udev changes and > bringing them in to eudev. IMHO that is less sustainable then vdev > because it relies on developers from systemd to play nice with udev > and not deprecate features that don't serve systemd's needs. At the > end of the day, I consider eudev as at best marginally better the > eudev, but still far to closely coupled with systemd to be useful in > the medium to long term. That is some or other form of FUD. I hear these "it's too dependent of systemd" arguments quite often here, but I don't think the Gentoo folks would have used eudev if they were fearing the same. Devuan is 99% Debian, that is even more a big threat if you consider the systemd imperialisation. > With regards to vdev, I'm sure if Jude didn't come back, others would > pick up his work and progress it, as is happening now around packaging > it. I think it rather disingenuous of you to imply it's a dead > project whilst claiming that eudev, the re-animated zombie of > systemd-udev as a better and only option. It's not better, and it's > not the only option either. No, but I fear vdev is stillborn. It's an orphaned project for the moment. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather run vdev than another device manager. The thing is: we may be able package it and to run it in Jessie (as we tried last week), but will vdev still work in a year or so if there's no development of vdev itself? > Whilst I respect the work to package eudev and having it as an option > in Devuan, I will personally very loudly push back on any attempt to > derail alternatives such as vdev - unless those alternative are > demonstrably built on the same flawed design principles as systemd. I agree, but unfortunately nobody has the time and the skills to pick up vdev and to continue its development. I have neither the time, nor the skills unfortunately, otherwise I would certainly have participated in the project. For the moment Devuan is still equipped with udev-systemd, so Devuan is very very dependent on the systemd guys. Just something nobody wants here. And with "freedom of choice" in mind: indeed, it would be nice if eudev would be available anyway, whether vdev will be continued or not. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] eudev [was: vdev]
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 19:06:09 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ..eudev etc package link? > > These packages were built by David Hare a little over a year ago. They > appear to work on current devuan. I don't know if he plans to update > them. > > add this line to your sources: > deb http://exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/ experimental main > > Install this key > http://exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/pool/main/e/exegnu-archive-keyring/exegnu-archive-keyring_0.0.1_all.deb > > apt-get update > apt-get install eudev (seems to install the libraries) > apt-get -t experimental install udev (honest) > > It will rebuild the initrd. > > Reboot. > > David also put together an experimental live iso of refracta with > eudev. I recently made a live-usb for a friend with this iso when her > hard drive died, and she used it for a few weeks without any > complaints. > > http://exegnulinux.net/refracta/iso/eudev/ He guys, I've been at work for a week or so and today I looked at the DNG list for the latest activities around vdev, but there has almost been no activity on vdev as far as I can see. OTOH, last week I tested eudev on a separate partition and that seems to work quite well. I think it might be a good idea to leave vdev for what it is and to switch to eudev. It is moreorless maintained (the latest change is two weeks ago) and it works well. We should not reinvent the wheel IMHO. And as there has been no response from the original vdev author, I think it's better to package eudev for Devuan and to make it available for Jessie and Ascii. The latest version is 3.2. Any thoughts on this? R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 06:28:31 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > That aside, I'm entirely unsure what your point is. This seems > extremely non-responsive to either the upthread discussion about > timesync at startup _or_ my assertion to you that modern networked *ix > machines really ought to have local recursive resolvers in the general > case. So, what's the relevance, please? Never mind, just an example: Bring a server that is configured on network a.b.c.d/xx to your own network on p.q.r.s/yy and you'll see what will happen. You'll have to wait until ntp times out before you are prompted for login. Anyway, I think we use different solutions for the same problem and that's fine. Let's get on with vdev instead of creating a huge thread here :) We're all doing our own right things and we're all doing our own stupidities :) Otherwise a site like the Kernel Fuck-o-Meter: http://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/ would not exist :) R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:51:55 +0200 Arnt Karlsen <a...@iaksess.no> wrote: > > No. apt doesn't know about the repository :-P > > ...until you tell it in /etc/apt/sources* ;o) Yes, but I don't :) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 04:21:45 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > Quoting richard lucassen (mailingli...@lucassen.org): > > > On my workstations I have no caching DNS. > > The term 'caching DNS' doesn't actually mean anything.[1] All DNS > software _caches_; even the stub resolver in glibc caches. I spoke > of something different and quite specific: a local recursive > resolver. Unbound is a (local) caching resolver. Or a (local) recursive resolver. But tinydns, which I use for internal resolving is an iterative resolver. Tinydns does NOT cache at all. And as I use split horizon for my internal network I have 1 caching resolver and one tinydns: $ host ssl1.xaq.nl ssl1.xaq.nl has address 192.168.64.24 $ host ssl1.xaq.nl 8.8.8.8 ssl1.xaq.nl has address 194.109.75.188 ssl1.xaq.nl has IPv6 address 2001:984:c40c:64::24 > And what I was saying is: You should run one on modern networked *ix > machine generally. Because it's 2016. I do not agree. If the local machine generates quite a bunch of queries than you're right. So, if you have (in 2016) let's say forty servers running in a network, they are all going to query the root servers? I think it's better to have one resolver that does the job for such a network. But you're right to install a caching DNS on a server that makes a lot of queries. I'd use that caching DNS as a forwarder to the central DNS and not one that is going to bother the root-servers. > > There is one in the network that's the one that is in dhcpd.conf. > > Even DHCP-client hosts can have local recursive resolvers. This is > useful: > > http://qref.sourceforge.net/Debian/reference/ch-gateway.en.html#s-dns-resolvconf > or > http://roy.marples.name/projects/openresolv/index If you do a lot of repetitive queries > > And even though you have an caching resolver, if your network > > settings are wrong during boot, there is nothing to be gained with > > a local resolver ;-) > > If you cannot reach _127.0.0.1_ because 'your network settings were > wrong during boot', you have somehow managed to achieve such an epic > degree of TCP/IP failure that I'm not sure you should be running *ix > machines. ;-> Wrong ;-) If your local caching resolver is trying to query the root servers and it is not able to find its way out, than you will have a timeout problem. > Fortunately, I don't think that's even possible. > > [1] Here is an article that may help you with terminology, one I wrote > after one too many person insisted on using the meaningless term > 'caching nameserver': http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lan.html Let me put it this way, it all in how we call things: a caching or a recursive resolver has, when it starts, an empty cache and NO database. An iterative resolver has NO cache but just a database. dnscache is a caching only resolver tinydns is a simple iterative resolver BTW: I don't use bind. I like the way Dan Berstein seperates the recursive and the iterative resolver. R. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] DNS at startup
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:12:02 -0400 Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > There shouldn't IMO be broken DNS any more on modern networked *ix > > hosts. Run a local recursive resolver and list 127.0.0.1 as the > > first resolv.conf entry. It's 2016, guys. > > Why isn't a local resolver the default? Why do we rely on the ISP to > do provide one with DHCP? Now you're assuming that apart from a local resolver there exists only an ISP resolver. On my Linux gateway I run unbound. That's my resolver for the internal network. That's the place to use split horizon. I don't use my ISP resolver. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 03:25:01 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > Quoting richard lucassen (mailingli...@lucassen.org): > > > When you have no network on the machine ntp notes that there is no > > network, then it stops AFAIK. But if you have a wrong resolv.conf or > > something like that you get the above mentioned timeouts. > > Really? 'Wrong resolv.conf or something like that'? > > There shouldn't IMO be broken DNS any more on modern networked *ix > hosts. Run a local recursive resolver and list 127.0.0.1 as the first > resolv.conf entry. It's 2016, guys. On my workstations I have no caching DNS. There is one in the network that's the one that is in dhcpd.conf. And even though you have an caching resolver, if your network settings are wrong during boot, there is nothing to be gained with a local resolver ;-) R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:13:24 +0200 Arnt Karlsen <a...@iaksess.no> wrote: > > So I prefer *for the moment* > > > > wget .deb > > dpkg -i .deb > > > > This wil install this particular version and these version will not > > be upgraded automatically. > > ...until a newer version can be aptitude etc upgrade'd in place... :o) No. apt doesn't know about the repository :-P -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 17:36:23 -0500 Nate Bargmann <n...@n0nb.us> wrote: > > When you install a new machine? Or whenever you boot and there is a > > network problem, you will have to wait until ntp times out before > > you can do anything. Normally it doesn't bother, but when you're > > mucking about with machines you can run into this problem. > > Interesting. > > I've done plenty of installs or boots without a network and don't > recall ntp blocking the system startup, at least on Debian and > derivatives. I run it on all my computers. When you have no network on the machine ntp notes that there is no network, then it stops AFAIK. But if you have a wrong resolv.conf or something like that you get the above mentioned timeouts. Anyway, I think OpenNTP is a nice replacement although I have very little experience with it. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev - udev is a dead end
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 14:47:08 -0400 "Ismael L. Donis Garcia" <sli...@citricos.co.cu> wrote: > Hopefully in the future we can have 2 alternatives and that the user > can decide which one to use. +1 -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:09:54 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > Moved /etc/vdev/vdev (a symlink) up one level - > I don't think that changed anything. It should be at /etc/vdev > Changed pid file to /run/vdevd.pid - > fdisk now shows the removable drive, I can mount and unmount it. > mouse still doesn't work. > vdev still fails at boot, but if I start it after logging in, > it starts without error. Hmm, that worked for me and Ralph IIRC. I don't have the Devuan machine here, but the first thing I'd try is add touch /root/test touch /run/test to check if the fs's are writable at the moment that /etc/init.d/vdev is invoked > Changed log file to /var/log/vdevd.log - > That didn't get rid of the vdev_log_redirect error. Yep, that what I saw as well > Added user to group 'input' - > still don't have keyboard or mouse control on the desktop. And if you start X as root? And if vdev doesn't run there might be no input. Test if a normal user can read the mouse input in a condole: $ cat /dev/input/mice move your mouse and you should get rubbish. > /etc/init.d/vdev start|stop works, but I think restart isn't working > right. That's a script issue. That has a lower priority IMHO ;-) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 04:18:09 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > OK, thanks for the comprehensive comparison. Oddly enough, I don't > have my regular Linux workstation around at the moment, and cannot > recall how I usually resolve this; probably mostly by almost never > booting. (Why shutdown when you can suspend?) When you install a new machine? Or whenever you boot and there is a network problem, you will have to wait until ntp times out before you can do anything. Normally it doesn't bother, but when you're mucking about with machines you can run into this problem. In the beginning, one of the reasons systemd was created was to increase boot up speed. That's something I've never understood, because: 1) a laptop: suspend 2) a workstation: hibernate 3) a server never shuts down 4) the bios initialization of a server seems to be a natural constant. Or even worse, I think a today's HP server takes longer to get through the bios initialization process than one that is 20 years old. So a few seconds for Linux to boot quicker doesn't make the difference. R. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Your computer clock: Was:Re: vdev
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 01:03:55 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > Of course, but for this particular purpose there is no need to make > > multiple partitions. Just use 1 partition for everything. > > I talked about this subject in the mailing list. I allways remove the > //etc/fstab/ file from the chroot jail, because it impedes the > creation of the user's folder *only* in the case of several > partitions. Read the bottom link, and search the words > "Remove /etc/fstab... Yes, kick it!": > > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151121.122707.ed2ca948.en.html > > Yet the flip side is that the fact of removing //etc/fstab/ affects > to other possible distros based on gnuinos, *whenever* they don't use > d-i :) But I was talking about a VM which makes testing things a lot more easy... -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:15:21 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm testing on a system that doesn't have a display manager. Things > are working on the console. When I run startx and get to the desktop, > touchpad and mouse don't work. Seems like the keyboard doesn't work > then, except for ctrl-alt-sysrq-k to kill the xsession. Maybe you should make yourself member of the group "input" > ps ax shows that vdev is not running. [..] I had that as well. I put the vdev.pid file directly in /run/ /run/vdev.pid That's a workaround. We'll have to find out why it does not want to create a pid file in /run/vdev. I think vdev starts too early but I haven't had a closer look at it yet. R. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 10:15:06 +0800 Robert Storey <robert.sto...@gmail.com> wrote: > OK, I use Devuan as my main get-work-done distro, so I don't want to > risk accidentally nuking it. Therefore, I just installed another copy > of Devuan into a different partition. This is my experimental Devuan > - I'm all ready to play with vdev now. Before I pull the trigger, I > need to clarify the procedure... > > > I think it's better to use the deb files that Aitor is creating for > > us. Just download the deb files here: > > > > http://packages.gnuinos.org/pool/main/ > > When you say "Just download the deb files" do you mean add them to > /etc/apt/sources.list? I'm a bit confused. Just to clarify, is this > the right procedure to install vdev... > > 1) Add a line to my /etc/apt/sources.list file saying... > > deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/pool/main/ > > 2) apt-get update > > 3) apt-get install vdev > > Or have I got it completely wrong? No not at all. But for the moment I'd rather install the deb packages directly because in this phase of testing an apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade might lock down you system if new deb files contain errors. So I prefer *for the moment* wget .deb dpkg -i .deb This wil install this particular version and these version will not be upgraded automatically. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +--+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 01:20:58 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > Quoting richard lucassen (mailingli...@lucassen.org): > > > I might not have been clear enough. My apologies ;-) > > No worries. As an afterthought, though, wouldn't that problem exist > equally with ntpdate, though? No. When ISC ntp is started is runs ntpdate first. When you have a network problem, the boot process will wait until ntpdate times out. Then, ntpd starts and is not able to resolve the servers from ntp.conf. That takes a few minutes. The OpenNTP manpage says: -s Try to set the time immediately at startup, as opposed to slowly adjusting the clock. ntpd will stay in the foreground for up to 15 seconds waiting for one of the configured NTP servers to reply. I haven't tried the -s option yet but 15 secs sounds better than a few minutes. When you have a well working hwclock, you don't need the option of course. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 00:52:40 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > > No, what I meant is that systemd is running startup processes in > > parallel. Starting ISC ntpd under sysv init *and* having a broken > > network connection causes the boot process to take a very long time. > > That might well be a point, then. Thanks for clarifying! I actually > have no significant amount of experience with systemd problems, and > seriously didn't understand what you were saying at first. (My > apologies.) I might not have been clear enough. My apologies ;-) OpenNTP is running smoothly here btw :) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Time sync at startup (was: vdev)
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:16:37 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > > And apart from that, that a good point of systemd, if ever there are > > network problems or whatsoever, the boot time may increase by > > minutes as ntpd cannot start. > > This is an extremely illogical objection from someone urging running > /usr/sbin/ntpdate, as the same is true for it. No, what I meant is that systemd is running startup processes in parallel. Starting ISC ntpd under sysv init *and* having a broken network connection causes the boot process to take a very long time. As I saw in the manpage of OpenNTP: OpenNTP waits 15 secs max :) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Your computer clock: Was:Re: vdev
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 21:30:20 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > i like to create partitions ( / , /home , swap ...), and doing it > > in a VM requires to reserve an static space of memory > > Is it possible in Qemu? I don't want to use Virtualbox. Of course, but for this particular purpose there is no need to make multiple partitions. Just use 1 partition for everything. You make a safe copy of a machine that boots. If you nuke the install, just reinstall the image or the snapshot. Always keep an extra /working/ image aside in case you really fsck things up :) Tip: use Proxmox, that's very simple: http://www.proxmox.com/en/ -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:37:36 -0700 Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> wrote: > Please don't run ntpdate. > > ntpdate is deprecated upstream (ISC) and will soon get dropped > entirely. It would be an excellent idea to get used to this. Quoting > the manpage: I know, but for the moment it works and it might (temporarely) resolve his time problem. It's quite simple, simpler than running ntpd. And apart from that, that a good point of systemd, if ever there are network problems or whatsoever, the boot time may increase by minutes as ntpd cannot start. BTW, I'm running ntpd. And I'll have a look into OpenNTP, as stated elswhere in this thread. Simple and secure and I don't need usec precision. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 00:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Peter Olson <pe...@peabo.com> wrote: > > On August 13, 2016 at 4:45 AM aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> > > wrote: > > As you know, today is August 12, not August 13. > > PLEASE FIX YOUR COMPUTER CLOCK Aitor, Just run this as a cronjob, ntpd might be too picky about hwclock settings: As root: dpkg --purge ntp /usr/sbin/ntpdate -b pool.ntp.org hwclock --systohc Then: echo -e "\n*/5 * * * * /usr/sbin/ntpdate -b pool.ntp.org" \ >> /var/spool/cron/crontabs/root echo -e "\n/usr/sbin/ntpdate -b pool.ntp.org" >> /etc/rc.local R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 16:12:27 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > Finally i decided to use the following config file: > > [vdev-config] > firmware=/lib/firmware > acls=/etc/vdev/acls > actions=/etc/vdev/actions > helpers=/lib/vdev > hwdb=/lib/vdev/hwdb/hwdb.squashfs > ifnames=/etc/vdev/ifnames.conf > pidfile=/run/vdev/vdevd.pid > default_permissions=0600 > loglevel=debug > logfile=/var/log/vdev/vdevd.log > preseed=/lib/vdev/dev-setup.sh Mind that the init.d/vdev should create the /run/vdev/ directory. And there was this issue that vdev did not start because of a read only filesystem. I haven't tested it, but update-rc.d puts the /etc/srcS.d symlink to S03vdev and maybe that is too early. > using simbolik links to /usr Normally it should work without these symlinks. I think it's even better to leave these symlinks out as these would hide settings still pointing to the /usr structure. My 2 cts :) R. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:08:42 -0500 Jim Murphy <srlinuxad...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm not a dev and haven't done a lot of research on how things > should work with multiple *dev(s). It would appear that there > could be at least 2 or maybe 3 that will be part of devuan's > offerings(udev, vdev and eudev). The above example script, and > yes I know it is not finished or final, assumes there will be only > 2(udev and vdev) and is part of vdev's post install. As debian > appears to have only offered udev this is new ground being > walking on. > > I was wondering shouldn't there be plans to allow for any number > of *dev(s)? Again I'm not a dev. Looking at funtoo I noticed > the current offerings are udev and eudev with eudev installing as > default. Funtoo also has a package virtual/udev defined as > "Virtual to select between different udev daemon providers". > Should devuan also take a similar approach? Wouldn't this be > better approach then having each *dev package do the switching? > Also there is the issue of which init system has been installed and > what commands are needed to stop/start daemons. > > FWIW, some random thoughts. That's a good point. Devuan means "freedom of choice" and it would be nice if a Devuan user could opt for udev, vdev or eudev (or even mdev) But for the moment we have to create packages for vdev. I will test eudev as well asap. R. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +--+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 12:54:54 +0200 Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:17:13AM +0200, richard lucassen wrote: > > We need a vdev package that depends on an empty systemd-udev > > package. All the other packages that depend on systemd-udev will > > otherwise be uninstalled. > > Use Provides:. This can nowadays even give a version. Ok, thnx. I'm not an apt guru ;-) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 11:52:55 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > We need a vdev package that depends on an empty systemd-udev > > package. All the other packages that depend on systemd-udev will > > otherwise be uninstalled. > > vdev will provide udev in teh same way as libudev-compat-dev will > provide libudev-dev; > but first i'll try to build the kernel using libudev-compat-dev > instead of libudev-dev I thought the kernel package was dependent on systemd-udev, but apparently it isn't. > > I just saw the vdev packages have disappeared on Aitor's site, I > > think he's busy creating new ones:) > > Yes, i'm rebuilding the packages... But, where are you searching them? > > http://packages.gnuinos.org/pool/main/v/vdev/ No, I looked at http://packages.gnuinos.org/pool/main/libp/libpstat/ :-) > > I propose not to git anymore, but to use Aitor's packages and test > > these. I think there is still a lot of testing and debugging to do. > > And we need more testers! > > Yes, we need testers :) I have to do some work now, I look forward to the packages. Maybe you can add a small README.txt for those who are willing to test vdev. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 06:33:50 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > > firmware=/usr/lib/firmware > > I think firmware should be set to /lib/firmware. That's where my > firmware is. I have no /usr/lib/firmware. Yep. I agree. Firmware is AFAIK in /lib/firmware -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:01:47 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > Anyway, I'm going to start with Jude's directions and see if I can > catch up. Meanwhile, I did do something useful, and I can answer your > question about eudev - yeah, I tried it, and it seems to work (with > minimal testing). I used the debs that David Hare made about a year > ago. But are they maintained? > And let me add that I agree with Steve that we should keep working on > vdev. The only thing that works against vdev is that it is (was?) a bit orphaned. And eudev is not. That's why I asked that question. > add this line to your sources: > deb http://exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/ experimental main > > Install this key > http://exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/pool/main/e/exegnu-archive-keyring/exegnu-archive-keyring_0.0.1_all.deb > > apt-get update > apt-get install eudev (seems to install the libraries) > apt-get -t nosystemd install udev (honest) > > It will rebuild the initrd. I'll create an extra partition and I will try eudev. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:05:49 -0400 Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote: > > And has someone ever played with eudev? Slackware has moved to > > eudev. Maybe it's better to try that instead of vdev? > > Before trading in vdev for eudev, consider this question: What if Red > Hat bought their way into maintainership of eudev, poetterized it, and > emptied out previous versions on Git. That's what they did with > dracut. If ever this would happen there will immediately be a fork called fudev. And what if RH bought their way into maintainership of the kernel? > Are Gentoo and Slackware good stewards for eudev? Slackware has > consistently avoided a commitment never to go with systemd, and Gentoo > (as opposed to Funtoo) is very proud of their init agnostic stance, > which of course they'll kick to the curb at the slightest pressure > from Redhat. I have no idea. But instead of bashing systemd, Poettering and RedHat c.s., it would be more effective for people here to spend some time in testing vdev, wouldn't it? (this is not meant to be Steve bashing btw) > I love the idea of experimenting with eudev: It's free software, maybe > we can improve vdev with what we learn from it. But for reasons stated > in my previous two paragraphs, I think moving our target from vdev to > eudev would be a bad idea. So, please join the Group Of Three who are testing vdev. Without vdev or any other standalone udev version Devuan is stillborn. This whole vdev beast is much more complicated than a single daemon. We need testing, input, otherwise we'll go down the drain. It is as simple as that. R. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 15:33:52 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > I'm talking about e.g. /dev/ttyS0. After a boot it looks like: > > > > crw--- 1 root root 4, 64 Aug 11 11:32 ttyS0 > > > > After a manual restart of vdev it is what it should be: > > > > crw-rw 1 root dialout 4, 64 Aug 11 11:32 ttyS0 > > > > $ cat /etc/vdev/actions/ttyS.act > > [vdev-action] > > event=add > > path=^ttyS[0-9]+$ > > VAR_PERMISSIONS_OWNER=root > > VAR_PERMISSIONS_GROUP=dialout > > VAR_PERMISSIONS_MODE=0660 > > helper=permissions.sh > > > > This action is NOT executed during boot, but after a manual restart > > it is executed. So: what is your ownership/permission of /dev/ttyS0 > > after a reboot? And how does it look like when you restart vdevd? > > Do you see the same phenomena? > > > > R. > > Ok, thanks :) You're welcome. But do you see the same phenomena? ;-) -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +--+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 20:41:33 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > It builds fine, but it does not work yet. I think there are a bunch > > of other things to do. It adds a usb stick as a character device :-) > > Yes I've worked out the building, and installing, without /usr > prefix, and so far only in a firejail overlay, just to see what it > installs. > > There's nothing for initrd though, is there? Isn't that needed? I haven't looked for that yet. > I guess I should crank up the vdev host again. It's just a qemu > client, so I'll need to do some hands-on to attach a usb connector. I > can't use the virt-viewer menu, because that'll redirect through a > virtio redirection device which indeed is a character device. I test vdev/eudev on a separate partition on a real machine (laptop). In that way I can always reboot the machine to a working partition whenever I fsck up the whole thing :) R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 10:40:43 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > >> Aitor, does your vdev set the permissions and ownerships correctly? > > > > I have to suid vdevd in debian/vdevd.postinst. The /usr/sbin is > > missing in your snapshot. > > No, i'll give the following permissions: > > -rwxr-xr-x I'm talking about e.g. /dev/ttyS0. After a boot it looks like: crw--- 1 root root 4, 64 Aug 11 11:32 ttyS0 After a manual restart of vdev it is what it should be: crw-rw 1 root dialout 4, 64 Aug 11 11:32 ttyS0 $ cat /etc/vdev/actions/ttyS.act [vdev-action] event=add path=^ttyS[0-9]+$ VAR_PERMISSIONS_OWNER=root VAR_PERMISSIONS_GROUP=dialout VAR_PERMISSIONS_MODE=0660 helper=permissions.sh This action is NOT executed during boot, but after a manual restart it is executed. So: what is your ownership/permission of /dev/ttyS0 after a reboot? And how does it look like when you restart vdevd? Do you see the same phenomena? R. -- ___ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. +------+ | Richard Lucassen, Utrecht| +--+ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 19:52:34 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks. github showed up 24 eudev bundles, with some 2-3 noted as > "debian packaged", though gentoo/eudev has most recent activity, so > maybe it's good to go from there to begin with. It builds fine, but it does not work yet. I think there are a bunch of other things to do. It adds a usb stick as a character device :-) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 11:24:59 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > I just run test mode and for the moment vdevd seems to ignore > > the/etc/vdev/actions/* files. Anyone a hint why vdev ignores these > > files? > > As you would have be able to verify, the location for the actions is: > > //etc/init.d/vdev/actions/*.act/ The init script has the same name as your directory: /etc/init.d/vdev And vdevd is told to use the config file in which is stated: $ grep actions /etc/vdev/vdevd.conf actions=/etc/vdev/actions So, why doesn't it start up succesfully? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:35:27 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > Aitor, does your vdev set the permissions and ownerships correctly? > > I have to suid vdevd in debian/vdevd.postinst. The /usr/sbin is > missing in your snapshot. It's not my snapshot ;-) And suid is not needed as vdevd is run as root. When you start your computer, are all /dev/* permissions ok? I have to restart vdev manually in order to get the right /dev/* permissions. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:29:05 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Is that the gentoo/eudev bundle? I'm not knowledgeable enough to have > a comparative opinion re eudev vs vdev, but I don't mind giving that > a go too. Though I'm not en par with package building... Nor am I. But I can build it, but when adding a usb stick it adds it as a character device :-( And there is little documentation AFAICS. But I have only played with it for half an hour or so :) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 10:00:10 +0200 richard lucassen <mailingli...@lucassen.org> wrote: > And has someone ever played with eudev? Slackware has moved to eudev. > Maybe it's better to try that instead of vdev? We're not alone there :) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:30:16 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Since '$?' is 'the result code of last command", it's IMO best placed > immediately after the command whose result code to capture. Here, > previously, it captured the result of the (failed, as it were) > attempt to echo to the log file, rather than the result of event-put. Ok, but apparently this did not make any difference, although I get the impression that there are only four people in the world to test vdev. Do you also have this phenomena that permissions are not set correctly at boot time? And has someone ever played with eudev? Slackware has moved to eudev. Maybe it's better to try that instead of vdev? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:04:24 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > > I've now made a snapshot of the vdev files from the working disk. > > available at www.realthing.com.au/files/vdev/vdev-snapshot.tgz. > > Thanks ! Aitor, does your vdev set the permissions and ownerships correctly? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev - udev is a dead end
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:59:58 +0100 Simon Hobson <li...@thehobsons.co.uk> wrote: > How long before he decides that Grub needs "improving" ? How long before he decides that the kernel needs "improving"? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 23:21:36 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > logfile=/run/vdev/vdevd.log > > > > I'd rather choose > > > > logfile=/var/log/vdev/vdevd.log > > > > as /run/ is a ramdisk ;-) > > So would I :-) but I got the impression /var (or /) is read-only when > vdevd starts, which made it spit the dummy. That's why I tried with > directing it to /run. I guess the logging needs som hands-on Que? Even /tmp/ does not work. Indeed, using /run/ makes vdevd start. Is this a feature or a bug? :) BTW: Does your vdevd set the right permissions? I will have al look at your diffs in 5 minutes -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:34:12 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > No SD_MOD here... > > $ grep SD_MOD /boot/config-3.16.0-4-amd64 find /lib/modules/ -name sd_mod.ko -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 14:22:07 +0200 richard lucassen <mailingli...@lucassen.org> wrote: > But when running: > > /sbin/vdevd -v2 -c /etc/vdev/vdevd.conf -l /var/log/vdev/vdev.log /dev > > everything seems to work well, the apropiate ownerships and > permissions are set to the expected settings. Ownerships and permissions are set when starting, but when adding a usb stick, it sets the ownerships and permissions to root.root/600 :-( There are still some glitches here and there I fear. Anyway, grosso modo it seems to work, although it still needs soms manual tweaking :) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 18:46:36 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > I've now made a snapshot of the vdev files from the working disk. > available at www.realthing.com.au/files/vdev/vdev-snapshot.tgz. logfile=/run/vdev/vdevd.log I'd rather choose logfile=/var/log/vdev/vdevd.log as /run/ is a ramdisk ;-) > As I mentioned before, it came down to a couple changes to the config > file and the udev-compat.sh helper (maybe not needed), then adding > dameonlet and the acls directory with its thing, and setting a > handful of links. You probably have no list of the changes you made? > The more major thing was the addition of the initramfs making (in the > root director of the snapshot), which I took from github, and editing > it to deal with the /usr prefix. > > I made it a snapshot for forensic study, and you can choose how to > roll it into the packages. Note that I added "loop" to modules > because the hardware database is a squasfs; I haven't actually > verified that it's really needed but just left it so. I installed vdev like in INSTALL.md, but it seems to have problems. vdev starts, but quits. It creates most devices, but does not set the apropiate ownerships and permissions. When I start vdev manually, it starts but refuses to set the apropiate ownerships and permissions. But when running: /sbin/vdevd -v2 -c /etc/vdev/vdevd.conf -l /var/log/vdev/vdev.log /dev everything seems to work well, the apropiate ownerships and permissions are set to the expected settings. IOW: when run manually it's ok. It might have something to do with initramfs which refuses to compile, due to an old bug. The workaroud is to: ln -s /dev/sda5 /805 in order to make it work again. But generating the initramfs from the example directory stops with an error and an empty initramfs file. The thing I did was symlinking the libudev.so.1 ls -al /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libudev.so.1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 Aug 10 14:08 /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libudev.so.1 -> /lib/libudev.so.1 and to run a update-initramfs -u -v Anyone a hint? R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:23:03 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > On 08/10/2016 10:46 AM, Ralph Ronnquist wrote: > > Note that I added "loop" to modules because the hardware database > > is a squasfs; I haven't actually verified that it's really needed > > but just left it so. > > All the required modules are included in the kernel: > > SQUASHFS > LOOP > SD_MOD I suppose he means to add the modules to /etc/modules to be sure they are loaded at boot time. # cat /etc/modules loop sd_mod squashfs R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:56:56 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > Some *postinst* and *postrm* files are needed in the packaging, and > i'm working on that. I installed the i386 packages, but these do not work quite well. It works, but permissions and ownerships are not set correctly. OTOH it seems to work well in a separate /mnt/vdev-test/ directory when running vdevd from a "git clone" and after running a "make -C vdevd". The i386 library packages are working ok, so no need to install these from git. The only thing that I had to correct is some entries in the example/vdevd.conf. The "actions" dir e.g. is in the example dir and not the build dir as stated in the conf file. After running: build/sbin/vdevd -v2 -c example/vdevd.conf \ -l /var/log/vdev/vdevd.log /mnt/vdev-test/ the /mnt/vdev-test/ directory is populated with AFAICS the right devices and the right permissions/ownerships. When adding a usb stick, I get a /mnt/vdev-test/sdb1 which can be mounted in one or another directory. So, at a first glance it seems to work for the moment in a separate device directory. Oh, BTW, when packaging vdevd, I'd opt for the /etc/vdev/ dir and not the /usr/etc/vdev/ dir. Another thing is that the /run/vdev/ directory does not exist and that the pid file could not be initialized. When telling vdevd.conf to create /run/vdevd.pid it works fine. Maybe it's an idea to first create a vdevd-shadow package which creates a /dev/shadow/ directory and creates devices in that directory while udev is still doing its job. I don't know if this is possible (I think it is) and it might be much more attractive for many people to test vdevd. Switching to vdevd instead of udevd might be too risky for many folks. Especially when you don't want to run the risk for a bricked device. Just my 2 cts. Keep up the good work :) R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:03:37 -0400 fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote: > I tried it and mentioned it in this thread. You also need to install > the libfskit and libpstat packages in the links that aitor provided > here: > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160806.151006.651a1400.en.html I did. And also the other packages. > The init script doesn't get copied to /etc/init.d and the initramfs > does not get created (or if it does, I don't know where it is.) So, > no luck booting with vdev here. Not yet. I just run test mode and for the moment vdevd seems to ignore the /etc/vdev/actions/* files. Anyone a hint why vdev ignores these files? -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian install
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 17:23:24 +0200 Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote: > > I think this question can be removed?: > > > > "Participate in the package usage survey?" > > It's opt-in, and provides useful data. It's ok for me, but Devuan != Debian -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian install
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:30:32 +0200 richard lucassen <mailingli...@lucassen.org> wrote: I think this package selection option can be removed?: "Gnome" -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian install
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:08:59 +0200 richard lucassen <mailingli...@lucassen.org> wrote: I think this question can be removed?: "Participate in the package usage survey?" -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 19:11:01 +1000 Ralph Ronnquist <ralph.ronnqu...@gmail.com> wrote: > These are my step notes for replacing systemd-udev with vdev in a > Devuan desktop installation. Thnx! I wonder what will happen if I use the deb files from: http://packages.gnuinos.org/pool/main/v/vdev/ I suppose you haven't tried that? Anyone else maybe? R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian install
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 13:58:01 +0200 richard lucassen <mailingli...@lucassen.org> wrote: > The Devuan netinstall iso says: > > "A CDROM drive has been found and it currently contains the CD Debian > GNU/Linux 1.0 "Jessie" - Official [..]" > > s/Debian/Devuan/ And when asked for a *manual* mirror: Choose a mirror of the Devuan archive [..] it suggests: Devuan archive mirror directory: /debian/ s/debian/merged/ R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Debian install
The Devuan netinstall iso says: "A CDROM drive has been found and it currently contains the CD Debian GNU/Linux 1.0 "Jessie" - Official [..]" s/Debian/Devuan/ R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:15:59 +0200 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: > As i announced yersterday in the IRC Channel, i just uploaded the > repository of gnuinos containing (in addition to linux-libre-4.6.2 > and simple-netaid) the packages of vdev: > > deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/ jessie main > deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/ jessie main > > Linux-libre has been built using libudev-dev. Now, i'll try it again > using Jude Nelson's *libudev-compat* (which should be recalled to > libudev-compat-dev ?? ), instead of libudev-dev. > > I also should add the following line to debian/control: > > Provides: libudev-dev Great. I'll make an extra install of Jessie this week to test the packages (I run Ascii for the moment). Packaging is essential for testing vdev by many people. A mature Devuan absolutely needs a replacement for udev. It's essential IMHO. If Devuan stays with udev, it will be swallowed by systemd one day or another. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 18:55:04 +0200 Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> wrote: > > Anyone here running vdev? I just looked around a bit, but there > > seems to be little activity: > > > > https://git.devuan.org/unsystemd/vdev/activity > > No news from Jude for almost one year :-( When I posted this topic I expected to have at least a bunch of replies. Yesterday I updated a freshly installed Devuan Jessie and I got a warning about the network devices that are going to be changed and that the 70-persistent-network.rules was going to be ignored. IOW: I think vdev is very important for a systemd-free distro like Devuan. Today I gave it a try on an ascii machine, but the README.md that comes with a "git clone" seems to be outdated. And when following the instructions on https://git.devuan.org/unsystemd/vdev I ran into a dependency hell. Unfortunately I'm not a skilled programmer otherwise I would certainly have spent some time to contribute. There is quite some activity here, but when I post a topic about a quite important unsystemd daemon there is almost no reply. That's rather alarming IMHO > I'm partial time reading documentation and sources and > considering rolling my own hotplugger, simpler than vdev - Jude has > done an enormous work and vdev is a complex software with hundreds of > scripts, too complex for me. [..] I have no idea if there are alternatives to udev. If you're writing your own hotplugger, wouldn't it be an idea to statically create all possible devices in /dev (MAKEDEV) and to have the hotplugger just add and remove symlinks? I know, I'm a noob, I have no idea what I'm talking about but you never know :) R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] pepperflashplugin-nonfree
On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:55:08 + Stephanie Daugherty <sdaughe...@gmail.com> wrote: > They won't be using it much longer. Chrome and Firefox are well on > track to phase Flash out entirely over the next year or two. Two years is an eternity ;-) -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] vdev
Anyone here running vdev? I just looked around a bit, but there seems to be little activity: https://git.devuan.org/unsystemd/vdev/activity And anyone running good old MAKEDEV here? R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] pepperflashplugin-nonfree
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 22:17:04 + Stephanie Daugherty <sdaughe...@gmail.com> wrote: > As a side note, attempting to use an outdated version would be an > extremely bad idea, Flash seems to have a new remote hole every other > hour, so, you;d just be giving every website you visit a backdoor > into your computer. I know. But webdesigners still use flash on websites. And users want to use that content. For that reason I run the browser as a different user that has no access to my home directory. Sometimes it's annoying, but grosso modo it works fine. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] pepperflashplugin-nonfree
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:51:46 -0500 Nate Bargmann <n...@n0nb.us> wrote: > > $ uname -a > > Linux netbook1 4.6.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.6.3-1~bpo8+1 > > (2016-07-13) i686 GNU/Linux > > > > Hmmm, why not a 32 bit version? But indeed, that's the problem... > > Isn't Pepper Flash a part of Chromium/Chrome? I seem to recall that > 32 bit support was dropped from Chrome and likely Pepper Flash as > well. Weird, I read it. There are AFAIK many computers out there still running a 32 bit OS, just because the hardware has less than 4G of RAM. I use the plugin with Opera. Opera's new version, which was 64bit-only until a few months ago, now has 32 bit support. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] pepperflashplugin-nonfree
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:35:18 +0200 "info at smallinnovations.nl" <i...@smallinnovations.nl> wrote: > A quick look at debian jessie shows that it is only available for > AMD64 maybe that is the problem? U $ uname -a Linux netbook1 4.6.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.6.3-1~bpo8+1 (2016-07-13) i686 GNU/Linux Hmmm, why not a 32 bit version? But indeed, that's the problem... -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] LyX questions on LaTeX-community.org
On 06/09/2016 04:52 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:50:16 +1200 > gordon cooper <gordon_coo...@kinect.co.nz> wrote: > >> On 09/06/16 02:59, Richard Heck wrote: >>> Alternatively---here's a crazy idea---we could suspend the mailing >>> list and send people to the forum >>> >>> Richard >>> >>> >> Perhaps not really crazy at all. I work in both mail lists and >> forums and I definitely prefer working in a forum. >> >> Although, a big problem here could be how best use the >> existing mail-list archive. > As soon as Fetchmail and a mail client and filters are set up, every > message of every mailing list to which one subscribes is presented, in > its proper folder, without human intervention. > > With forums, one needs to remember to browse each forum, usually > requiring a login with a password. Often, much more often than mailing > lists, you're required to agree to pretty iffy legal terms, often > including your indemnifying (acting as an unpaid insurance company for) > the forum owners, and perhaps binding arbitration. > > There's a reason mailing lists have gotten the Free Software movement > from 1992-present: It's easy, it's automatic, and the information comes > to you instead of having to go out and get it. > > I can understand adding a Forum, but can't fathom the logic behind in > any way demoting an existing and well used mailing list. > > I'm copying the Devuan mailing list because some of these same issues > have come up there. Diff'rent strokes, I suppose. rh ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan migrate and install
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:12:07 -0400 aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote: [snip] > 6) Clean the content generated by the failed attempt and try again: > > apt-get autoremove > make build_cdrom_isolinux > > The initrd.gz and the vmlinuz will be generated in the dest folder :) Ok, but will that initrd/vmlinuz ask for a cd or will it ask for a URL where the installer packages can be found? Or is the trick done by the --method=http? Anyway, Debian has such an option and I think it would be very valuable if such an initrd.gz/vmlinuz would be available from the Devuan mirrors. This will make Devuan being available through many PXE boot servers accross the planet. That said, I think it should be part of the Devuan distribution. Each time a new version sees the light, the appropiate vmliz/initrd.gz pairs should be generated for each available cpu. Try it yourself and see how it works when you start one of these kernels: amd64: wget -N http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/initrd.gz wget -N http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/linux i386: wget -N http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/i386/initrd.gz wget -N http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/i386/linux No need for cd's, no need for USB sticks, just a network connection. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] developer options
After an install of Devuan Jessie, I find this: $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list # autogenerated by devuan-baseconf # decomment following lines to enable the developers devuan repository #deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main #deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main What will happen if I uncomment these lines? R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] cosmetic installer issues
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:46:26 +0200 Jaromil <jaro...@dyne.org> wrote: > > The only remarkable thing is a running avahi-daemon. But that's not > > a big issue IMHO. > > yes, I'm having fun myself punching an apt-get remove --purge of > avahi-daemon and dbus now and then, gives me a degree of satisfaction. > :^) but we need to keep those packages in jessie. perhaps remove avahi > from recommends? $ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01norecommend APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0"; > the problem with removing any other package from > devuan is that we don't want to diverge one single step from the > initial mission of *just getting rid of systemd*. jessie should be > just that. perhaps we can start recommending some pinning to avoid > avahi and/or dbus and such things. Not "getting rid of systemd" but "freedom of choice". If someone wants to install Devuan with systemd, it's his or her choice. Although I think that noone on this list will do that ;-) But a few other things: 1) Wishlist: a real PXE installer like Debian is providing. Just an intrd.gz and a vmlinuz that will guide you through the install process. No need for USB sticks or CD drives. Running a PXE installer together with an apt-cacher-ng saves time (internal network speed) and saves bandwidth usage for the Devuan community. 2) Wouldn't it be better to use the same dir structure like the Debian mirrors?: ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/devuan/ compared to: ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/debian/ R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan migrate and install
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:12:21 +0200 Florian Zieboll <f.zieb...@web.de> wrote: [--8<-- snip sources.list --8<--] > You might want to choose another mirror, or the redirector: > auto.mirror.devuan.org Yep, I think that might be better > Depending on your configuration and personal preferences, some ideas > for your /etc/apt/preferences - AFAIK, if you have only devuan/merged > repos in your sources.list, you don't need to assign the "-1" pin to > systemd-sysv: > > Package: libsystemd0 > Pin: release o=* > Pin-Priority: -1 For the moment libsystemd is still in use AFAIK > > 2) I run a PXE server. For Debian I can download an "initrd.gz" and > > a "vmlinuz" to start a net install. Each version has its own > > vmlinuz/initrd.gz. The repository I use is an apt-cacher-ng proxy, > > this works like a charm. Has this been realized for Devuan yet? And > > if yes, does someone have a URL pointing to these two files? > > I am not 100% sure, but I think you can use initrd and vmliuz > straight from the netboot iso: > > $ mount -o loop -t iso9660 /path/to/iso /mountpoint > > Please correct me if I'm wrong^^ I already tried that of course :-) But this initrd/vmlinuz will ask you to mount the cd. Of course I can try to use nextserver or something like that, but I like the Debian option to use a real network installer. It will simply ask for the repository to use. R. -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan migrate and install
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 16:00:10 -0400 etech3 <ete...@e-tech-systems.com> wrote: Ok, thnx! > Here's what I have so far: > > most from the 64 bit install. added non-free and contrib so far so > good > > # deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main > > deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main non-free contrib > deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main non-free > contrib > > # jessie-security, previously known as 'volatile' > deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security main contrib > non-free > deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security main > contrib non-free > > # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile' > deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates main contrib > non-free deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates > main contrib non-free > > # jessie-backports, previously on backports.debian.org > deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports main contrib > non-free > deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports main > contrib non-free > > > On 06/14/2016 03:27 PM, richard lucassen wrote: > > 1) IIRC there used to be a "sources.list" somewhere to migrate from > > Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie. Does someone have a URL? > > > > 2) I run a PXE server. For Debian I can download an "initrd.gz" and > > a "vmlinuz" to start a net install. Each version has its own > > vmlinuz/initrd.gz. The repository I use is an apt-cacher-ng proxy, > > this works like a charm. Has this been realized for Devuan yet? And > > if yes, does someone have a URL pointing to these two files? > > > > R. > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- richard lucassen http://contact.xaq.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
