Re: [DNG] Chimaera CPU stuck
On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:56:43 +0200, Luciano wrote in message <4mswlm0ldwz1f...@baobab.bilink.it>: > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:16:27 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > echo "deadline" >/sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler > > > > > > > ..a possibly simpler idea: Give the vm another cpu thread to > > help do the i/o work? > It already has twelve cpu theads. ..ok, wrong diagnosis on my part, I assumed you only gave it one thread, with 12, your i/o problems are somewhere else. > Is there a way to reserve some of them to I/O? ..anyone? I have read somewhere(?) that you can assign (or somesuch) a program to run on a specific cpu, if that helps your search for ideas. > Luciano. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Chimaera CPU stuck
On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:37:41 -0500, Hector wrote in message <36d765d0-e9a7-ccaa-8b36-098e1f275...@genac.org>: > On 9/14/22 10:02, Luciano Mannucci wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:49:19 +0200 > > Luciano Mannucci wrote: > > > >>> vm.dirty_background_bytes=67108864 > >>> vm.dirty_bytes=268435456 > >>> > >>> Maybe this additional information is helpful: > >>> > >>> https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/io-performance-tuning.15893/ > >>> https://lonesysadmin.net/2013/12/22/better-linux-disk-caching-performance-vm-dirty_ratio/ > >>> > >>> Hope that helps, > >> Yes, it does! > >> Works like a charm! > > I've been to quick... > > Now only if the data comes from the local LAN (not drossing routers > > or firewalls) I still get > > > >kernel:[ 7336.007287] watchdog: BUG: soft lockup - CPU#0 stuck > > for 22s! [swapper/0:0] > > > > if I write to the disk via dd nothing wrong happens... > > > > Luciano. > > Check which scheduler you are using, for virtual machine loads you > might want to use "deadline", assuming your disk is sda, the first > command checks your scheduler, the second changes to deadline. > > cat /sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler > > echo "deadline" >/sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler > ..a possibly simpler idea: Give the vm another cpu thread to help do the i/o work? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lennart now working for Microsoft
On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:18:29 +0200, Martin wrote in message <12021771.O9o76ZdvQC@ananda>: > Peter Duffy - 11.07.22, 11:37:09 CEST: > > It's an interesting development, and in a strange way it feels as > > though it's been coming. > > > > IBM owns Redhat and M$ owns systemd (Poettering has said that he's > > continuing to work on systemd. Presumably that's not going to be in > > his spare time ;) ). I wonder how that's going to play out. Maybe M$ > > will make IBM an offer for Redhat. > > > > It seems to me that at the very least, the fact that systemd is now > > M$- tainted is going to make a lot more people start to think about > > dropping it. That's probably good news for Devuan, and other distros > > that have already eschewed systemd. > > Thanks for providing that additional insight that Lennart Poettering > has said he will continue to work on Systemd. > > And yeah, the role of Microsoft regarding free software IMHO is not a > good one in general. No, they did not change. There are still about > creating monopolies. Office 365 shows. .."systemd 365, will it happen?" ;o) XoD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New build + extras
On Tue, 31 May 2022 14:37:36 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message : > On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 10:48 AM Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > On Tue, 31 May 2022 09:18:43 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message > > : > > > > > On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 8:46 AM Steve Litt > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > o1bigtenor via Dng said on Mon, 30 May 2022 17:03:56 -0500 > > > > > > > > >Greetings > > > > > > > > > >I am investing in a new system. > > > > >(Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu) > > > > > > > > You're going to be very, very pleased with your finished > > > > product. 16 high speed threads can tame the toughest online > > > > video chat or javascript-encumbered website. > > > > > > I am finding that web browsers are quite greedy when its comes to > > > system resources - - - especially the cpu but so far it seems > > > like the most I'm seeing is maybe 2 cores in use rarely more. > > > > ..starve them! No web browser deserve more than 2 to 4 cpu threads > > or more than 4GB of ram. I watch youtube videos on Google's > > chromium web browser at nice -n 17 at 1920x1200@60Hz on my 2 Dell > > Precision M4400 (8GB ram, one has an Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 @ > > 2.80GHz and the other a T9400 @ 2.53GHz cpu, both has NVIDIA's > > G96GLM [Quadro FX 770M] running the nouveau driver. (I usually > > prefer youtube at 1280x800, less stutter in rain, wireless ISP.) > > Like that idea - - - but - - - how? ..pass, too much overhead for my wee cpus. RT throttling/scheduling might work for me, once I get around to check it out. My biggest problem is keeping the keyboard alive when the graphics hangs. > (Are there any other ramifications to doing this?) ..depends on e.g. which wms, and what you run in them, me, I prefer crashing a browser tab rather than that whole damn browser, or the OS. Usually it kills either the input driver or the graphics driver, easily fixed over ssh. > > > > ..ok, 4K video games etc might need more, just keep them in qemu etc > > vms, no need to let any of that crap crash your hardware. RT, nice > > etc is there to help you kill the crap you keep in virtual machines. > > > > > Between most software not using more than a few cores and cost > > > was what decided me on this particular proc. > > > None of the more core procs run at 3.8 GHz base (I think there is > > > a bump up available too on the chosen model) so until a lot of > > > programs make use of multi-core I thought it not worth going for > > > more cores. > > > > ..I'd lean towards more cores rather than higher speeds, you can > > much more easily throw things into vms and let them chew thru with > > a dozen cpu treads, with 2, virtualization approaches virtual > > uselessness. ;o) > > I got badly burned (imo anyway) digging into containers (LXD) a while > ago now and am quite cured of any curiosity in that regard at > present. So at present > virtualization and I are not really on speaking terms (nevermind > actually running some kind of containerization). > > Looking forward to finding out how to starve browsers from devouring > all system resources!!! ..try play around with qemu, works even on my wee old cpus. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New build + extras
On Tue, 31 May 2022 09:18:43 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message : > On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 8:46 AM Steve Litt > wrote: > > > > o1bigtenor via Dng said on Mon, 30 May 2022 17:03:56 -0500 > > > > >Greetings > > > > > >I am investing in a new system. > > >(Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu) > > > > You're going to be very, very pleased with your finished product. 16 > > high speed threads can tame the toughest online video chat or > > javascript-encumbered website. > > I am finding that web browsers are quite greedy when its comes to > system resources - - - especially the cpu but so far it seems like the > most I'm seeing is maybe 2 cores in use rarely more. ..starve them! No web browser deserve more than 2 to 4 cpu threads or more than 4GB of ram. I watch youtube videos on Google's chromium web browser at nice -n 17 at 1920x1200@60Hz on my 2 Dell Precision M4400 (8GB ram, one has an Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 @ 2.80GHz and the other a T9400 @ 2.53GHz cpu, both has NVIDIA's G96GLM [Quadro FX 770M] running the nouveau driver. (I usually prefer youtube at 1280x800, less stutter in rain, wireless ISP.) ..ok, 4K video games etc might need more, just keep them in qemu etc vms, no need to let any of that crap crash your hardware. RT, nice etc is there to help you kill the crap you keep in virtual machines. > Between most software not using more than a few cores and cost > was what decided me on this particular proc. > None of the more core procs run at 3.8 GHz base (I think there is > a bump up available too on the chosen model) so until a lot of > programs make use of multi-core I thought it not worth going for > more cores. ..I'd lean towards more cores rather than higher speeds, you can much more easily throw things into vms and let them chew thru with a dozen cpu treads, with 2, virtualization approaches virtual uselessness. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:11:18 +0200, Florian wrote in message <2022042328.14e36a59.f.zieb...@web.de>: > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf > > Also worth a try: > > $ man 5 xorg.conf ..also worth trying:~$ man -k xorg.conf ...and the educational: $ man -h # ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another reason for why I use Devuan
On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:44:12 -0300, Gastón wrote in message <20220218054412.ga5...@devuan.devuan.com.ar>: > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 10:52:43PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:41:59PM -0800, Syeed Ali wrote: > > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:25:05 -1000 > > > Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:55:49PM -0700, Keith Christian via > > > > Dng wrote: > > > > > This describes the machine ID: > > > > > > > > > > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > So a creation of the freedesktop folks. > > > > > > > > > I like this quote: > > > > > > > It should be considered "confidential", and must not be exposed > > > > in untrusted environments, > > > > ... > > > > Just checked. On my pure devuan system, > > there is no /etc/machine-id filre, > > but there is a /var/lib/dbus/machine-id > > > > Should I worry? ..dunno, chk https://www.mail-archive.com/dng@lists.dyne.org/msg24726.html > I leave here the link to the thread with the discussion about > machine-id that occurred in this list in 2019 > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dng@lists.dyne.org/msg24687.html > > In /etc/default/dbus you can set the IDTYPE to be a RANDOM value. ..thanks for the remainder, I had a feeling I had forgotten something of importance updating a wee spare ascii disk install to chimaera. ..lost a coupla days worth of emails and command line history in my 1GB stopped dead disk, after getting distracted from backup-ing blue smoking the red and blue wiring off my other Precision M4400, crisy clear green monochrome at 1920x1200@60Hz didn't leave enough video memory for any X on any plug-in screen, all the while while the consoles were annoyingly consoling. ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stability will be achieved when you spend all of your time reporting on the nothing you did.
On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 15:30:33 +0100, Antony wrote in message <202202071530.33269.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > On Monday 07 February 2022 at 15:23:41, Ken Dibble wrote: > > > Application: firefox 78.15.0esr > > > > URL: about:telemetry#home-tab > > > > Page contains statement: Telemetry is collecting release data and > > upload is disabled. > > > > URL :about:telemetry#histograms-tab > > > > Page contains seemingly endless amounts of collected data. > > > > If this data is supposedly not being uploaded by user preference, > > then why in the H,E,double hockey sticks is so much of it being > > collected? > > Sorry, but in what way is this a Devuan question rather than a > Firefox one? ..me, I read this as an heads-up to the Devuan community on this question to the Firefox (dev?) community on an espionage trap. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 19:56:16 +, g4sra wrote in message : > <--snip--> > > A web search suggests that the following will compensate for the > hardware issues you are experiencing I do not have your hardware and > therefore cannot test. > > edit /etc/default/grub and add parameters for i8042 > > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash i8042.notimeout i8042.nomux" ..drop the "quiet" part until you have fixed this issue, you also might try "verbose" and "debug" for even more error and warning messages. ..can also be done on a per boot basis; on boot-up, simply hit "e" to edit "quiet" out of the boot command line, then just boot to see them thar non-quiet messages. > then run > $ sudo update-grub > and reboot > > When done correctly they will show on the kernel command line > $cat /proc/cmdline > BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-?.??. root=/dev/ ro quiet splash > i8042.notimeout i8042.nomux > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] /run/user/#
On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:41:31 +, g4sra wrote in message
:
> On Monday, August 30th, 2021 at 12:10 PM, Luciano Mannucci
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I have two Beowulf systems that should be identical. If I issue "df"
> > one does report among mounted filesystems a /run/user/xxx, where xxx
> > is the id number of the user I am connected with (via ssh) and the
> > other doesn't. As uname -a they both report:
> > Linux mil-dbs66 4.19.0-14-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.171-2
> > (2021-01-30) x86_64 GNU/Linux What have I done wrong, and on which
> > one of the two machines?
> Not necessarily anything wrong, other than the two machines are not
> identical.
>
> /run/user/xxx is used by session management (and in some corner cases
> its absence can break dpkg scripts).
>
> You could list all the processes on both machines and then diff them.
> Quick and dirty (and untested :)
>
> local_host# ps -e | awk '{print $4}' | sort | uniq >/tmp/catch0
> local_host# ssh remote_machine 'ps -e' | awk '{print $4}' | sort |
> uniq >/tmp/catch1 local_host# diff /tmp/catch0 /tmp/catch1
..a "dpkg --get-selections >>/tmp/catch$B" on each Beowulf might tell
you why your Beowulf systems act differently. If not, you'll have to
e.g. diff both /etc etc trees, but you shouldn't have to take it as
far as diff'ing both / trees.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] random sudden stops
On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:32:05 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20210827003205.55c65...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:55:12 -0400 > > >On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 09:16:06PM -0400, william moss via Dng > >wrote: > >> On 8/25/21 8:10 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >> > For the past few months my home server (running an ascii > >> > installation physically moved from another computer) has been > >> > suddenly stopping all processing about once a month. apparently > >> > at random. It seems to stop instantly, leaving power on and > >> > becoming completely responsive to ping, existing ssh connexions > >> > and use of the physical keyboard. > >> > > >> > The system log, after a reboot, shows nothing unusual except of > >> > course that there are no log entries for a shut-down. > >> > > >> > Can anyone provide ideas about tracking this down? > >> > > >> > It could of course be a random rare intermittent hardware error. > >> > > >> > -- hendrik > >> > ___ > >> > Dng mailing list > >> > Dng@lists.dyne.org > >> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > >> > > >> I had the same problem on a work station running ASCII. Since I > >> could access the system from another machine on the LAN and even > >> log in, I guessed that it was Xorg. Killing X Via a remote login > >> cleared the problem. With the use of sar and other tools, I > >> determined it was the video card and/or NVIDIA's drivers (kernel > >> modules). Switched back to the system board's video (AMD) and the > >> problem went away. > > > >Not running X on this machine. Just have the usual text consoles on > >cntl-alt-F1 through F6. > > > >Don't have a separate video card either. > > The first time I read your symptom, my first thought was "I bet he has > an nVidia card, just like I did before switching. So, acknowledging > that you never run X and might not even have any nVidia drivers > installed (if you do, I suggest removing them, under the > circumstances), is your built in card an nVidia? If so, do you have a > less than 5 year old Radeon to temporarily install while disabling > your nVidia in BIOS? After my horrendous intermittent hangs and > reboots of November and December 2020, I would never use any nVidia > graphics unit with Linux again. If I somehow acquired a computer with > built in nVidia graphics, I'd disable the built-in and use a Radeon. > Even if I didn't use X. ..or just kill off any of nVidia's proprietary drivers and use the nouveau driver. Caviat: My last Radeon purchase, 9 years ago was a 2nd hand HD 4890 that required a new powersupply with (an 8 pin plug AFAIR?), so I had to use that box filler Nvidea GeForce GTS 250 that came along the 4890 to get that powersupply, the 250 came bang right up on X @ 2048x1536 on the nouveau driver. It drove FlightGear at a flyable 9 to 15fps AFAIR, and the FlightGear developers svore it would be much faster on nVidia's proprietary driver, which I never got working, so I went with the 4890 on radeon. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware.
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 03:34:46 -0700, spiralofh...@spiralofhope.com wrote in message <20210709033446.7...@spiralofhope.com>: > On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 07:09:18 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity > > ditches spyware: FLOSS Audacity Fork without any Telemetry or > > Reporting: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity > > I'm pleased with Audacity's implementation. ..fair enough, and thanks for pushing me to check out the fork talk, it appears the majority of Audacity developers (or "Contributors" as Github prefers to call them) still disagrees with you: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity/graphs/contributors 184 https://github.com/SartoxOnlyGNU/audacium/graphs/contributors 143 https://github.com/AudioCity-Studio/AudioCity/graphs/contributors 139 ..how many of the 136 stayed behind with the Muse Group?: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/graphs/contributors > Of note: > > Audacity was acquired by Muse Group. > > "I’m Now in Charge of Designing Audacity. Seriously." > Tantacrul: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMWNvwLiXIQ > > Audacity is now restricted from minors, violating GPL: > https://technewsinc.com/after-its-acquisition-audacity-takes-care-of-its-users-data/ ..no shit! So, does the Muse Group still believe they can distribute Audacity under the GPLv2? ;o) ..on Thu, 8 Jul 2021 00:23:51 + (UTC), Tim wrote in message <1195933771.683581.1625703831...@mail.yahoo.com>: > FYI, arstechnica says Audacity is not spyware: > No, open source Audacity audio editor is not “spyware” > > The community's telemetry concerns were received and addressed two > months ago. ..thanks to Tim for pushing me to investigate that story, Jim did indeed say that, initially. And wise people update as they learn more... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/?comments=1 ..and there's even more: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/audacitys-new-owner-is-in-another-fight-with-the-open-source-community/?comments=1 ..it's like Github's next owner making you pay to see source code. Sheet music is effectively the source code of music, and that analogy has been used to explain source code as a concept to the general public, to legislators and to jurors and judges in courts. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Advice sought on kernel upgrade
On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:45:47 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message : > Greetings > > I am running a fairly old rig on debian testing with 2 gpus ..which gpus, and which drivers? IME, my old gpus runs better with nouveau and radeon. > and want to run 5 monitors. ..that rig should be fun on flightgear(.org). ;o) > The 5th is hdmi connected and is a 4k monitor with the other 4 all > being 1920x1080. > After I installed the 4k monitor I had regular graphics sub-system > freezes (won't come out of suspend typically) with a normal being a > system reboot at least once every 24 hours. ..tried keeping a ssh session going into it? Graphics sub-system freezes shouldn't kill ssh nor networking. > I filed a bug report. Have subsequently unplugged the 4k monitor - - > - - a lot of headache rebooting and setting up the machine at least > 1x per day. > > Recommendation is to download and install even a 5.14 (still in beta) > kernel. > > The newest kernel (changed just yesterday) for debian in debian > experimental is a 5.13.?? version. ..debian tradition before the systemd coup, used to call stable things upstream, "experimental." Todays kernel list: arnt@d44:~$ siste-kernels mainline: 5.14-rc5 2021-08-08 stable: 5.13.10 2021-08-12 stable: 5.12.19 [EOL] 2021-07-20 longterm: 5.10.58 2021-08-12 longterm: 5.4.140 2021-08-12 longterm: 4.19.203 2021-08-12 longterm: 4.14.243 2021-08-08 longterm: 4.9.279 2021-08-08 longterm: 4.4.280 2021-08-10 linux-next: next-20210813 2021-08-13 Other resources Fri Aug 13 12:36:32 CEST 2021 arnt@d44:~$ ..catch your own updated list with e.g.: arnt@d44:~$ alias siste-kernels alias siste-kernels='lynx -dump -width 144 https://www.kernel.org/ \ |grep -A 14 "Latest Release" |tail -n 13 |cut -c -40 ;date ' arnt@d44:~$ > Dunno if I want to try a beta kernel (sorta scared to in fact). ..then make it boring with Devuan's good old Debian way, add your build tree to your /etc/apt/sources.list, and install your .debs from your local build tree with e.g. aptitude. Will even do all the bootloader updating automagically. > Suggestions from y'all? > (Y'all, or at least quite a number of you, have a lot more experience > at this than I do.) ..err, guys, has Devuan's good old Debian way changed in any way the last dozen years? We of course disabled systemd and use a real init, or did we just leave it the way it was, leaving out Debian's nice shiny new barn door? > Please advise. ..pick 5.13.10 and build and install it Devuan's good old Debian way. ..if that kernel fails, chk for 5.13.11 etc, if those fail, your rig might be "too old", so fall back to try 5.10.58 or whatever the next version there is. Etc down the longterm trees. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Microsoft: Really?
On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 05:59:38 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message : > On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 9:57 PM Mark Rousell > wrote: > > > On 12/08/2021 03:49, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > Check out this article: > > https://www.computerworld.com/article/3628169/windows-365-costs-how-much.html > > > > Windows 365... > > > > So let me get this straight: > > > > [...] > > > > Of course the real effect of this is that Mocrosoft takes > > possession of every single bit of your computing experience, making > > it extremely hard for you to ever escape. > > > > Yup, all that and you still need some sort of computing device to > > connect to their cloud service. > > > > No mention of the added availability for any taxation service to > 'really' check out everything that a > business is doing - - - you know - - - just to 'make sure' that > everything is legit! (Don't forget you'll get to pay for this added service > too!) > > I'm worried about using a web hosting service - - - - this offering - > - - - > - over my dead body! ..you guys have biometric passports? :o) I don't. ;o) Imagine where those data get to go playing... ;oD > My present computer - - - wasn't cheap to setup some 9.5 years ago > but its stats would still > blow the doors off that offering! > Oh well - - -- the sheeple will 'love' the convenience!!!! > The desire for cheap is going to destroy our society (if it hasn't > already!!!). > > Regards -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..a viable basis for Devuan as a hypervisor?, was: libvirt package without X11 and DBus
On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 18:21:30 +0800, Brad wrote in message <81f66ac4-b595-2e58-04d9-90fc5dd00...@fnarfbargle.com>: > On 7/8/21 5:26 am, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 20:20:15 +0800, Brad wrote in message > > : > > > >> On 6/8/21 5:12 pm, Andrzej Peszynski wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> On 06.08.2021 06:25, Brad Campbell via Dng wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Why do you even need/want libvirt? I have several machines which > >>>> run qemu guests just using simple bash scripts to bring them up > >>>> (and all the bash script is there for is to hold the command line > >>>> parameters). I like libvirt and virt-manager for configuring and > >>>> customising the guests, but at the end of the day all that is is > >>>> a fancy front end to qemu. > >>> > >>>> If you are stripping the guts out of libvirt, why use it in the > >>>> first place? > >>> Brad, thanks a million! Learning is fun especially for a "apt > >>> install" man as I am. I am looking now at how I can simplify all > >>> this (may be stripping parts of QEMU too?), to keep running, and > >>> handle my configurations and resources binding. In the end, all > >>> what I need is executing in isolated ring the ELF of dozen of (not > >>> trusted) proxies, servers and libraries + resources balancing + > >>> isolated filesystems + sockets. > >>> > >>> From the other side, I think that the Type 1 hypervisor for > >>> desktop is also interesting thing, It's very tempting to have > >>> windowed multimachine with realtime switch capability. > > > > ..I get the idea that Andrzej and I are looking for Brad's kinda > > bare metal hypervisor Devuan install? > > We might come up with minimal net-install size install image as an > > alternative to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubes_OS , only > > without systemd and based on Devuan. > > I'm not quite sure how my description of a self-compiled (ancient) > libvirt install qualifies as "bare metal". ..then it probably doesn't, I'm trying to come up with a Devuan based "Qubes OS" bare metal host OS, only without systemd and able to use Devuan .debs off aptitude etc tools I'm familiar with. > > ..in Debian and Devuan we often have package conflict that means > > hold back upgrades or ditch good software we'd like to keep, those > > conflicts disappears when we can contain each of those old or new > > things in e.g. a vm. > > > >> I mostly do that and have done for over 20 years now. > >> My desktop is essentially a moderately powered thin client > >> (currently a 2011 iMac27 with 2 27" thunderbolt displays running > >> Beowulf). On the server side : > > > > ..running on that same 2011 vintage iMac27? > > Yes, 3 27" displays managed by xmonad. Enough screen realestate to go > around. ..real estate is nice, I still have a few big CTRs. :o) > >> - A Dual head windows 8 VM for Autodesk products & MS Office. > >> - A Dual head > > > > ..meaning 2 27" physical displays on top of each client's desk? > > Meaning I have 2 27" heads on the VM that display on 2 of my 3 27" > displays on the desktop. Being able to use more than one display on a > windows VM revolutionized my VM use. ..that, I can believe. :o) > >> windows 10 VM for newer Autodesk products that won't > >> run on Windows 8. > >> - A Debian wheezy / xfce VM for a specific older version of > >> Openoffice. > > > > ..I have some old hw running Debian Sarge thru Wheezy, can I simply > > yank out those old disks and run them off a vm each? > > Junk's still useful as guinea pig rigs. ;o) > > Might need a little tweak here or there, but sure. I've run VMs off > dedicated drives. Right now the CCTV server has 4 8TB drives passed > straight through. > >> - A Windows 8 VM with a CCTV server. > > > > ..is that running better than e.g. motion or zoneminder, or just > > based on company policy? > > Part of what I do is work with numerous CCTV systems. I've never > found anything open source that was worth a second look. ..we're on different planets there. ;o) Last time I played with motion on webcams 10 years ago, I fed 6 webcams into a Konqueror (KDE's web etc browser) tab. ..motion is also nice for capturing FPV feed, I just set up a 2nd receiver feeding video straight onto disk. Leaving the plane alone for 5 second
Re: [DNG] Err; hardware!
On Mon, 9 Aug 2021 13:02:27 +0800, Brad wrote in message <89eae6c0-02b7-d593-bf87-923016c30...@fnarfbargle.com>: > On 9/8/21 8:13 am, terryc wrote: > > On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 18:36:19 +0800 > > Brad Campbell via Dng wrote: > > > >> > >> I honestly can't see who in their right mind would use a base > >> system of that age, > > > > > > My 2c, hardware? > > > > If it has lasted that long, then it must be reliable and its free, > > why not. > > > > anyway, back to regular discussions. > > > > I can understand hardware (one of my Colo boxes is a 2008 Mac Mini), > but this discussion is talking about a new "bare metal hypervisor" > based on a Debian Wheezy installation. ..to be minimally upgraded to my minimal "Devuan Wheezy" before going on to "Devuan Stable" (currently Devuan Beowulf) or into a vm. ..only meant for dist-upgrades and for... > Keeping legacy systems running? sure, but a new install?? I can't > think of any system with hardware virtualisation that ran Wheezy and > won't run Beowulf. ..closest I've ever been was testing QubesOS-3.2 on hw that can't run QubesOS-4, had VT-x but no new fancy VT-d last time I chkd. ..I'm thinking a _minimal_ Devuan Xen install, is there a better way? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..a viable basis for Devuan as a hypervisor?, was: libvirt package without X11 and DBus
On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 17:29:47 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210807212947.zzv7byj56xdfk...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Fri, Aug 06, 2021 at 11:26:03PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 20:20:15 +0800, Brad wrote in message > > : > > > > > On 6/8/21 5:12 pm, Andrzej Peszynski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06.08.2021 06:25, Brad Campbell via Dng wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Why do you even need/want libvirt? I have several machines > > > >> which run qemu guests just using simple bash scripts to bring > > > >> them up (and all the bash script is there for is to hold the > > > >> command line parameters). I like libvirt and virt-manager for > > > >> configuring and customising the guests, but at the end of the > > > >> day all that is is a fancy front end to qemu. > > > > > > > >> If you are stripping the guts out of libvirt, why use it in the > > > >> first place? > > > > Brad, thanks a million! Learning is fun especially for a "apt > > > > install" man as I am. I am looking now at how I can simplify all > > > > this (may be stripping parts of QEMU too?), to keep running, and > > > > handle my configurations and resources binding. In the end, all > > > > what I need is executing in isolated ring the ELF of dozen of > > > > (not trusted) proxies, servers and libraries + resources > > > > balancing + isolated filesystems + sockets. > > > > > > > > From the other side, I think that the Type 1 hypervisor for > > > > desktop is also interesting thing, It's very tempting to have > > > > windowed multimachine with realtime switch capability. > > > > ..I get the idea that Andrzej and I are looking for Brad's kinda > > bare metal hypervisor Devuan install? > > We might come up with minimal net-install size install image as an > > alternative to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubes_OS , only > > without systemd and based on Devuan. > > > > ..in Debian and Devuan we often have package conflict that means > > hold back upgrades or ditch good software we'd like to keep, those > > conflicts disappears when we can contain each of those old or new > > things in e.g. a vm. > > Isn't this the kind of problem the Nix package manager obviates? ..looks like it, and also looks like a viable alternative to Debian as an upstream package source. We just need a to way to build or convert nix packages into .debs, e.g. patching alien so it can be used do it, and put them in our own mirrors. > Wihout requiring anything as heavy as hypervisors? > > -- hendrik ..nix promises to solve package conflicts, not online security. That's why also we need easily deployable Qubes-OS style web browser "app" etc isolation in e.g. throw away single use virtual machines, like those throw away Wintendo images Brad uses to prank fraudsters. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..a viable basis for Devuan as a hypervisor?, was: libvirt package without X11 and DBus
On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 20:20:15 +0800, Brad wrote in message : > On 6/8/21 5:12 pm, Andrzej Peszynski wrote: > > > > > > On 06.08.2021 06:25, Brad Campbell via Dng wrote: > >> > >> Why do you even need/want libvirt? I have several machines which > >> run qemu guests just using simple bash scripts to bring them up > >> (and all the bash script is there for is to hold the command line > >> parameters). I like libvirt and virt-manager for configuring and > >> customising the guests, but at the end of the day all that is is a > >> fancy front end to qemu. > > > >> If you are stripping the guts out of libvirt, why use it in the > >> first place? > > Brad, thanks a million! Learning is fun especially for a "apt > > install" man as I am. I am looking now at how I can simplify all > > this (may be stripping parts of QEMU too?), to keep running, and > > handle my configurations and resources binding. In the end, all > > what I need is executing in isolated ring the ELF of dozen of (not > > trusted) proxies, servers and libraries + resources balancing + > > isolated filesystems + sockets. > > > > From the other side, I think that the Type 1 hypervisor for desktop > > is also interesting thing, It's very tempting to have windowed > > multimachine with realtime switch capability. ..I get the idea that Andrzej and I are looking for Brad's kinda bare metal hypervisor Devuan install? We might come up with minimal net-install size install image as an alternative to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubes_OS , only without systemd and based on Devuan. ..in Debian and Devuan we often have package conflict that means hold back upgrades or ditch good software we'd like to keep, those conflicts disappears when we can contain each of those old or new things in e.g. a vm. > I mostly do that and have done for over 20 years now. > My desktop is essentially a moderately powered thin client (currently > a 2011 iMac27 with 2 27" thunderbolt displays running Beowulf). On > the server side : ..running on that same 2011 vintage iMac27? > - A Dual head windows 8 VM for Autodesk products & MS Office. > - A Dual head ..meaning 2 27" physical displays on top of each client's desk? > windows 10 VM for newer Autodesk products that won't > run on Windows 8. > - A Debian wheezy / xfce VM for a specific older version of > Openoffice. ..I have some old hw running Debian Sarge thru Wheezy, can I simply yank out those old disks and run them off a vm each? Junk's still useful as guinea pig rigs. ;o) > - A Windows 8 VM with a CCTV server. ..is that running better than e.g. motion or zoneminder, or just based on company policy? > - A Devuan Ascii / XFCE VM for Peer to peer. > - A Devuan Ascii headless VM for Cacti, HLI to the HVAC system and > some general development and plumbing > - Numerous VMs with specific build configurations for embedded > software. > > The other thing VMs are good for is tying up Scam call-center > workers. "My windows is full of viruses you say? And you can help me > with that? Brilliant, just let me sit down and start my computer > up" (spins up a fresh clean windows VM I prepared earlier) ..ooo, and with a nice juicy tarpit too? :o) > Win4lin, bochs and sheepshaver were brilliant, then qemu came and > conquered. I can't imagine ever running Windows on the bare metal > again. > > Between spice and rdp, there's not much you can't do. > > Brad ..I get the impression you have what we're looking for here. Your 'dpkg --get-selections' would get us started, you also have ideas on how to best set up our own configurations. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..another viable basis idea for Devuan as a hypervisor?, was: Announce: FlyingTux project
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:49:32 +0200, metux IT consult wrote in message : > Hello folks, > > > maybe a bit offtopic, ..I disagree. ;o) > but allow me to announce the FlyingTux project: ..welcome onboard DNG. :o) > It's an build/runtime infrastructure for running desktop and mobile > applications in containers and build an entirely container-based > mobile OS based on it. ..I like the https://www.qubes-os.org/ approach, but not their use of systemd nor of rpm. Do we do something similar here? > The primary motivation is my long frustration about the monstreaus and > practically unmaintainable Android, which also still lacks lots of > common management abilities we know from the GNU/Linux world. .."wonder why Google designed it that way." ;oD > In some ways, FT can be seen as an conceptional combination of > containers (docker, k8s, etc) and apps (android, etc). One major > difference is that also the app images are based on some defined > distro base (for start, just alpine, others to follow later) and the > images are created on the host, based on host specific settings like > hw setups (eg. automatically deploys the right mesa drivers). In > future steps some packages of the app distro base (called 'osbase# > here) will be replaced or customized, in order to provide better > integration with the ecosystem and strip unneeded stuff. ..which means an early step will be trim down the basic (net-install?) images we have, as far down as possible, and build app, vm etc images upon those stripped down base images. I guess we also want a bare bare metal hypervisor of some sort. ;o) > Another key difference is moving common functionality (eg. various > data sources, communication protocols, ...) out of the individual > apps into generic services - and the binding between individual apps > and actual services instances can be customized by the user (e.g. one > can bind some apps to fake gps instead of the real one, separate > address books or user directories, etc, etc). > > Here's a more detailed description: > > https://github.com/metux/flyingtux/blob/master/README ..this means we can set up e.g. chromium in throw-away-after-use containers? Or stick new stuff with lib conflicts in containers? Etc? > Note that for now its very experimental and fast changing. Don't > expect anything field-ready yet. But it's already good enought to > isolate some common desktop apps like gimp, chrome, etc. ..I see no .deb package? Pretty soon we'll need debug packages to shake out bugs. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..a viable basis for Devuan as a hypervisor?, was: libvirt package without X11 and DBus
On Thu, 5 Aug 2021 11:13:06 +0800, Brad wrote in message <184151f6-16e3-f59c-1d07-47394f30f...@fnarfbargle.com>: > On 5/8/21 4:40 am, AP wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > first I thank all DEVUAN people for the pure pleasure of running my > > system (since ASCII 2018) without a bloatware. > > > > This is my first message and I am sorry, that my search did not > > give me the answer about: > > > > maintenance of the libvirt package without X11 and DBus > > > > Question: is there a way to get the package for libvirt + QEMU/KVM > > for headless VMs - when no X, no DBus needed? > > You can always compile it yourself. I've just checked and I'm still > running a self-compiled v4 on my main box. Certainly in the v5.6.0 > code I just looked at there's an option to disable dbus. > > From memory I stopped upgrading when they migrated away from > autoconf and make. The redhat-isms were just making it too hard to > build on older stable debian-based systems, so I stuck with V4. These > days it'd be easy enough to use the packaged versions I suppose. > > Brad ..any of you guys wanting to package what you have running? To me, this sounds like a viable basis for the bare metal hypervisor idea in the "[DNG] Devuan as a hypervisor?" thread. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] grub-install device node not found
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:25:19 -0400, Haines wrote in message <20210803172519.gg29...@engels.histomat.net>: > I'm doing a cross install of beowulf. BIOS is legacy. All goes well > until the end when I run /#: grub-install /dev/sdc . > > Installing for i386-pc platform. > device node not found > ... > Installation finished. No error reported. > > I should mention that when I initially ran the command my terminal > (mlterm) crashed (that sometimes happens). So I had to chroot again > to the mount point /mnt/devinst/ > > It seems that the grub-install cannot see the mbr on /dev/sdc ..is there one? 'fdisk -l ' or somesuch should work, even if there are some new fancy /dev names missing symlinks to /dev/sdc, e.g. killed by that mlterm crash. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] another upgrade ascii to beowulf now OK
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 14:49:33 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210803184933.5jt3g3ludpinl...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Tue, Aug 03, 2021 at 08:06:26PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:32:40 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message > > <20210803173240.qrlp2elbnda6c...@topoi.pooq.com>: > > > > > > this time it succeeded in stopping ans starting postgres. > > > > ..I somehow read that the other way. :oD > > Happy to see you succeed. :o) > > After a few dist-upgrades, what's left is a conflict between > mesa-va-drivers_18.3.6-2+deb10u1_i386.deb and > vdpau-va-driver:i386-dmo5 It seems both of them contain the same file. > > I suspect I can solve this later. ..yup, that is a bug, the easy lazy way is file a bug and wait for a fix, the harder way is fix that bug. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] another upgrade ascii to beowulf borked
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:32:40 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210803173240.qrlp2elbnda6c...@topoi.pooq.com>: > > this time it succeeded in stopping ans starting postgres. ..I somehow read that the other way. :oD Happy to see you succeed. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] another upgrade ascii to beowulf borked
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:32:40 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210803173240.qrlp2elbnda6c...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Tue, Aug 03, 2021 at 06:13:15PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 10:05:39 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message > > <20210803140539.4kor7lhfljf7t...@topoi.pooq.com>: > > > > > On Tue, Aug 03, 2021 at 02:33:08PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 06:49:33 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message > > > > <20210803104933.5ics6nomqyctr...@topoi.pooq.com>: > > > > > > > > > > (I wasn't worried about postgresql failing; as far as I know, > > > > > I don't use it.) > > > > > > > > ..you probably use(d) some service built upon it and/or some > > > > front end of it. Welcome to the club. ;o) > > > > > > Still not worried. If there is such a service, I can sort it out > > > later; perhaps with the instructions I got long ago during the > > > upgrade for migrating data bases to the new version. > > > > > > What does worry me is that the upgrade froze while /var/lib/dpkg > > > is locked, and I cannot resume it. > > > > ..is it hung dead, or can you kill it? > > If you kill it, kill everything else that needs dpkg etc > > lock files, before you remove those lock files. > > Once they are gone, you should be able to resume your > > upgrade with your standard tricks. > > > > > I need to know how to resume the upgrade and get to the end. > > > > ..tried apt-get's --fix-broken (or -f ) option? > > Or dpkg --configure -a ? > > These did most of the work. > > Turns out I hadn't killd all the processes involved in relevant locks. > Discovered lslocks by a google search. Good I had another computer > to use for this. > > After this I apt-get --fix-broken told me to dpkg --configure -a > After that, I could resume upgrading using apt-get. > > this time it succeeded in stopping ans starting postgres. ..2 options, throw in an "exit 0" line in the offending install(?) script and fix postgresql later, or carry on your agony your way. ..my occational workaround, is cheat out apt (or dpkg), adding an "exit 0" line below any line acting up in any of the relevant control-the-package script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/$PACKAGENAME.*, for e.g. zsh, those are: root@d44:~# ll /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2569 Apr 27 2020 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.list -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3483 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.md5sums -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 949 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.postinst -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 356 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.postrm -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 178 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.preinst -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 178 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.prerm ..easier, and disappears on the next upgrade. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii to Beowulf upgrade borked with eudev
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 16:08:52 +0800, Brad wrote in message : > On 3/8/21 1:32 pm, Brad Campbell via Dng wrote: > > Just got stung again by this one, this time upgrading an ascii 64 > > bit rpi3 image to beowulf while using a 5.10 kernel provided by the > > rpi foundation. > > > > This time I just unpacked the deb, commented out the "exit 1" and ..my occational workaround, is cheat out apt (or dpkg), adding an "exit 0" line below any line acting up in any of the relevant control-the-package script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/$PACKAGENAME.*, for e.g. zsh, those are: root@d44:~# ll /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2569 Apr 27 2020 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.list -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3483 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.md5sums -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 949 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.postinst -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 356 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.postrm -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 178 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.preinst -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 178 Feb 5 2019 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.prerm ..easier, and disappears on the next upgrade. ;o) > > repacked the deb, then a bit of manual installation to get the > > dependencies updated. > > > After another re-install ascii and upgrade to beowulf to verify I can > confirm that if you remove or rename /run/udev prior to the > dist-upgrade the check gets disabled. It's pretty obvious in the > pre-inst file, but as it only ever caught me in the middle of an > upgrade when I was more interested in getting things running rather > than finessing a work-around I never really looked too hard. > > In my case I ran the dist-upgrade until it bombed out, rm > -r /run/udev and then ran the upgrade again and this time it ran to > completion. A manual /etc/init.d/eudev restart afterwards re-created > the directory and we are off to the races. > > I can't see why I wouldn't just zap /run/udev before the upgrade. ..last year's Knoppix-8.6.1 has a similar problem, it boots with 2 udev processes, each eating 100% cpu of each core, I simply kill all udev processes and restart the udev service. Uptime now 51 days 18:30, I haven't gotten around to test the other isos down my /boot/images. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] another upgrade ascii to beowulf borked
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 10:05:39 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210803140539.4kor7lhfljf7t...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Tue, Aug 03, 2021 at 02:33:08PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 06:49:33 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message > > <20210803104933.5ics6nomqyctr...@topoi.pooq.com>: > > > > > > (I wasn't worried about postgresql failing; as far as I know, I > > > don't use it.) > > > > ..you probably use(d) some service built upon it and/or some front > > end of it. Welcome to the club. ;o) > > Still not worried. If there is such a service, I can sort it out > later; perhaps with the instructions I got long ago during the > upgrade for migrating data bases to the new version. > > What does worry me is that the upgrade froze while /var/lib/dpkg is > locked, and I cannot resume it. ..is it hung dead, or can you kill it? If you kill it, kill everything else that needs dpkg etc lock files, before you remove those lock files. Once they are gone, you should be able to resume your upgrade with your standard tricks. > I need to know how to resume the upgrade and get to the end. ..tried apt-get's --fix-broken (or -f ) option? Or dpkg --configure -a ? ..next few ideas: dpkg's --force-remove-reinstreq, chk man dpkg for details, in mad bad cases, chk dpkg --force-help , my nuclear war way is pile up everything not included in --force-all. > Right now my system is likely in a mixed ascii-beowulf state, with > all the accompanying version skew. > > Will booting it even work? ..if you have all the basic bits intact, yes, otherwise you're in for a chroot session, or a fresh install. ..if you at least can install things the dpkg -i way, you can use busybox as an init the way minimalist and embedded distro people does init with static busybox, should make life a fair bit easier booting with "1 init=/path/to/the/static/busybox" or somesuch off the grub command line. ..you want the static busybox, a messed up install of the standard version of busybox using the standard system libraries, will be useless because those standard system libraries will be messed up, and useless. > Will it unlock dpkg? (likely not) ..pass. Depends on a lot of things, my big snip took away your context, but see above on lock files. > Will I be able to continue the upgrade later? > If so, how? > > -- hendrik -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] another upgrade ascii to beowulf borked
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 06:49:33 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210803104933.5ics6nomqyctr...@topoi.pooq.com>: > > (I wasn't worried about postgresql failing; as far as I know, I don't > use it.) ..you probably use(d) some service built upon it and/or some front end of it. Welcome to the club. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Only a few packages now still on hold
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:58:47 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message
<20210802015847.d7gxxdu7ts753...@topoi.pooq.com>:
> On Sun, Aug 01, 2021 at 09:54:33PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 01, 2021 at 01:13:26PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > On Sun, Aug 01, 2021 at 05:33:23PM +0200, Bernard Rosset via Dng
> > > wrote:
> > > > On 31/07/2021 22:03, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > > > I'm practicing upgrades on my spare laptop, getting ready for
> > > > > doing my server upgrade from ascii to beowulf..
> > > > >
> > > > > They are both running ascii.
> > > > >
> > > > > Starting, of course, by making the ascii up to date still as
> > > > > ascii, before I try tye upgrade to beowulf.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having trouble doing even this innocuous act.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried starting by using interactive aptitude to just update
> > > > > and upgrade.
> > > >
> > > > After changing your sources to point to the new release,
> > >
> > > I have not yet changed my sources. I figured I should make sure
> > > the ascii system is up-to-date as an ascii system before I start
> > > to upgrade to beowulf.
> > >
> > > > have you run
> > > > "apt-get upgrade" or "apt-get dist-upgrade"?
> > > > It looks to me as if you did the former.
> > >
> > > I used the update and upgrade inside the interactive aptitude.
> > >
> > > I guess I have to do dist-upgrade outside the interacctive
> > > aptitude.
> >
> > And today I did aptitude update and aptitude upgrade in the CLI
> > instead of in the interactive apttude. Just about everything just
> > worked, except for 3 packages:
> > elogind
> > libpam-elogind
> > libelogind0
> > They do nog get upgraded.
> >
> > Following this with
> > aptitude dist-upgrade
> > tells me these will be upgraded, but then balks, telling me to
> > remove libpam-elogind
>
> This is what it says:
>
> root@notlookedfor:~# aptitude dist-upgrade
> The following packages will be upgraded:
> elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind{b}
> 3 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
> upgraded. Need to get 861 kB of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be
> used. The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> libpam-elogind : Breaks: libpam-ck-connector but 0.4.6-6 is installed
> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
>
> Remove the following packages:
> 1) libpam-elogind [234.4-1+devuan1.5 (now)]
..this IME often happens when a newer version needs the old version
stopping it's service(s) and a purge before installing and starting
up the new version.
>
>
> Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
..hit [q], then restart aptitude in the interactive mode, mark
libpam-elogind [234.4-1+devuan1.5 (now)] for removal, as it whines
"Error", hit [e] and browse aptitude's suggestions with [,] and [.]
to see if you can agree on any solution, if not, [q] out and find
aptitude's opinion on "Broken packages" with [B].
..my _guess_ is you may be able to find old lib config files
blocking the removal of libpam-ck-connector or some such.
Purge them.
..hitting [e] and then [Enter] on a package, will find possible
version numbers of that package at the bottom, picking another
newer or older version may also solve your conflict.
..as Tito, Mark, Tom, Rod and I advices, apt, apt-get and probably
a few more, solves package conflicts differently from each other
and from aptitude, IME I can often use e.g. apt-get or even dpkg
when aptitude fails me. Options I remember throwing around also
includes --safe-update and --full-update.
> >
> > How safe is this? isn't elogind kind of important?
> >
> > I'm still just upgrading from ascii to ascii. Beowulf is not in my
> > sights yet.
> >
> > -- hendrik
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Only a few packages now still on hold
On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 22:15:31 +1000, wirelessduck--- wrote in message <3a609fa9-9cca-42e3-a66f-fd9f66d69...@gmail.com>: > > On 2 Aug 2021, at 19:02, Mark Hindley wrote: > > > > Yes it can be, but no more so than consolekit. There are 2 > > alternatives for managing seats and sessions in Devuan: consolekit > > (actually consolekit2) and elogind. > > > > Consolekit was probably the default in ascii. It is inactive > > upstream, but still works. Elogind is active and well supported > > and is the default since beowulf. However, the codebase derives > > from systemd and therefore some people will prefer not to use it. > > > > So, you need one or other, but not both or a mixture. > > > > aptitude seems to suggest that you already have elogind installed > > and this is an upgrade. You will have to allow apt to remove the > > consolekit related packages (libpam-ck-connector and possibly some > > policykit libraries). Alternatively, stick with consolekit and > > remove all of the elogind related packages. The choice is yours. > > Both will work once you have a clean installation based on a single > > logind alternative. > > > > Mark > > Is seatd likely to get anywhere in the next Debian development cycle > after bullseye/chimaera? ..I guess not, unless Debian dumps systemd: https://git.sr.ht/~kennylevinsen/seatd > Would this allow us to just need only one option for users to install? > ..we should probably do our own packaging of this, and much more, chk output of: how-can-i-help --old |less ..103 packages due to be kicked out now, many of these were left behind by DD leaving since the systemd coup... arnt@d44:~$ how-can-i-help --old |grephttps://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ \ |cut -d" " -f5 |sort |uniq |wc -l 103 ..more details in: apt-cache show $(how-can-i-help --old |grep \ https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ |cut -d" " -f3 |sort |uniq ) |less ..806 since I began capturing said sad output into my own list. arnt@d44:~$ cat how-can-I-help |grep https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ \ |cut -d" " -f5 |sort |uniq |wc -l 806 arnt@d44:~$ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] difficulty issuing commands
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 07:16:00 -0400, Haines wrote in message <2021080600.ge29...@engels.histomat.net>: > On Sun, Aug 01, 2021 at 02:54:55AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Haines Brown said on Sat, 31 Jul 2021 21:54:56 -0400 > > > > >Sorry for the ambivalent subject line. > > > > > >I'm running Beowulf with Fluxbox window manager but without a > > >desktop environment. Without knowing what might have triggered it, > > >I find it laborious to start some applications from CLI. What > > >happens is that I get a hang (little spiral rotates) until I kill > > >the process with Crtl-g and try again. > > > > Do you mean Ctrl-c ? I've never heard of ctrl-g killing commands. > > > > [snip other weird intermittent symptoms] > > > > I'd start by collecting data: > > > > df -h >> data.txt > > No problems here. No partition is more than 50% > > > vmstat -S M >> data.txt > > I don't know how to interpret all the info. But here it is: > > procs ---memory-- ---swap-- -io > -system---cpu- r b swpd free buff cache si so > bibo in cs us sy id wa st 2 3 0162 5852 6370 > 00859539 10 3 86 1 0 > > Nothing here strike my eye > > > Also, run the htop command to see whether you're maxing out your > > CPUs. > > Wow! Don't like this result, It looks like for the four cores, number > is running 100%. The others are low. Currently my machine is running > an automatic bacvkup. I do not have a swap partition. Mem is > 3.7G/15.6G ..in my final Debian days I used 8GB swap on my 4GB ram laptops. Upgrading to 8GB ram also had me raise that to 24GB swap on an hunch there might be something clever about 32GB total memory, rather than carrying on with the twice-ram-swap rule to 24GB. Works wonderfully well for me. ..and I suspect some programs act up if they can't see any swap memory at all, regardless of whether or not they actually need any swap memory, all it really takes, are bad and badly hardcoded assumptions. > In the display of processes, CPU runs 98-101% I'm runnng two sessions > of emacs on two virtyual desktops and it is the second that is > hogging CPU. > > I see that in fiddling to start balance program, I left it in hung > state (spinning spiral). So now use C-g to stop the process. This > is enacs for stop the process. Ctl-c has no effect on the emacs > process. I now look to see what effect stopping the process has. > > Sure enough. My CPU is back to normal. My backup running in > the background calls occasionally for as much as 30%. > > So I'm back to the problem that I cannot run ~/.backup.bal without. ..what happens if you try run this with nice, e.g. "nice -n 18 ~/.backup.bal &" ? ..or tie it to some specific cpu core(s)? Etc for your Emacs sessions. > It may be that this is a problem specific to emacs. > > I'll take the further steps if you think wise. It maey be that the > problem with .backup.bal is an oddity. I'm about to reconstruct the > bookmark. The problem with accessing bank not understanding my > browser until I try to acess a second time is probably irrelevant. > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] May I use Netaid source as an example of good code?
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 12:41:58 +0200, aitor wrote in message : > Hi, > > On 1/8/21 1:39, aitor wrote: > > I'm looking for a safer way to run the binary with suid permissions > > using the shared memory of the system to send a signal. > > Time ago somebody said me: "you can do nothing from your binary that > i can't do externally from another binary". > > So, am i wasting time? ..nope. > > Today i've been testing the idea and it's working for me. I'd like to > prepare an example and share with all of you to resolve > vulnerabilities. The example consists of a window with a button (to > run the suid binary) and another binary -the intruder- located in the > same directory and trying to do the same by using the other party's > PID pretending to be the window. ..you're being too damned naive: Why would the intruder not try to e.g. use your PID? > The result is a segmentation fault. ..which I would argue is good, unless you are trying to set up some sort of honey trap. For a public etc service, log what you need and restart that service. > I insist on trying to find the safest approach to run the suid binary > because this is important not only for simple-netaid, but also for > hopman, which will require granted permissions for running the > *eject* command or the like (among others?). > > Cheers, > > Aitor. ..that eject command Can be used with a CD player to push a reset or power switch button. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Marker
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:10:34 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20210730181034.418a3...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > This email was to mark the point I got to in my outline of everything > that's been said in the DNG software authoring standards, because my > email client (claws-mail) doesn't have a bookmarking capability, as > far as I know. ..huh? And he top posts. ..chk down the "Message" menu for "Mark", "Color label" and "Tags" for marker ideas, or down the "Tools" for filtering tool ideas, or "Configuration" for filtering, plugins, "Tags" or "Actions" ideas, or down the other 4 menus for search and help ideas. ..e.g. [Ctrl]+[3] to color your Marker thread pink. ;o) > SteveT > > > Steve Litt said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:58:07 -0400 > > >This serves as a marker. I'll explain later. > > > >SteveT -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:10:24 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210730001024.rjm4r3fxejkxe...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 04:57:44PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > al3xu5 said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:33:10 +0200 > > > > > >11) Document and document and document all the code (vars, > > >functions, errors etc. ... all) > > > > I do that: Nobody else does. It really makes things difficult when I > > need to work on or with somebody's code. > > I ofter predocument -- explain what my code is intended to do before I > write it. > > This is a planning document. ...and what a lot of bug hunters would wanna have handy to answer the "What the F*** were they even trying to do here???" debugging things. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:14:36 +0200, Antony wrote in message <202107302314.36917.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > I also caused some confusion when asking for directions to > "Schenectady" in New York State, USA, some years ago. ..aouch. What sort of shenanigans did that cause? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:35:52 +0200, Didier wrote in message <74e5400a-5e8c-4a22-d673-5f181644e...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 29/07/2021 à 20:10, Andreas Messer a écrit : > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 03:58:02PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > >> With all respect due to your work, I tend to think that with > >> such expensive and dangerous machines, more investment should be > >> put into hardware so as to get controllers with a decent ram. And > >> maybe the firmware could take safety action when software > >> crashes. > > Sure, but I'm not the boss :-) > Your boss is the ultimate responsible person in case of human > hazard, at the condition s?he is properly educated, and it might be > your responsibility to educate her/him. ...or walk out the door and Blow The Big Whistle in Prime Time Media if said Twin Haired Bosses don't wanna get it. Or defect to a Safe country where such whistles Can be blown. > > > >> Similarly, more investment should be put in software so as to > >> make a review of available languages suited for mssion-critical > >> applications and invest in learning the chosen language. C and C++ > >> are so error-prone that they are really not suited. > > Well, you can implement bugs in any kind of language. To be honest, > > crashes are the most easy ones to find. I know there are other > > languages outside but here applies the same as above: I'm not the > > one to decide. > Not all language are equal. Some really discourage bad > programming, meaning it takes a big effort to actually program > badly/unsafely, while it is still possible. Others open traps under > your feet everywhere. ..2 lists on these 2 kindsa programming languages would be nice. > > I can just give hints and try to push in some direction. But > > embedded software development is still driven by myths like "C is > > faster than C++" and its hard overcome these. Maybe a generation > > thing. > Myths actually. The advantage of C and C++ is to be easily > portable to every paltform since the compiler and runtime are always > available by default. But, when you develop a private application, > you can invest in building the necessary environment. > > > > My personal way to push through this is to run as much (automated) > > firmware tests in our hardware-in-the-loop test system as possible. > > And to have a testcase for every single requirement, situation, > > sequence or ever seen bug in the software. We end up to have 20-30 > > testruns a day distributed among different test setups, SoC cpu > > generations, operating systems. The only missing thing is kind of > > developer slap robot to punish the developer who made the bad > > commit automatically :-) > Not sure that works (~: Would make the programmers nervous. > Stress-based human management causes bad surprises. ..it did work pretty well for Stalin until March 1'st 1953. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Remote power management
On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:10:16 +0100, fraser wrote in message <20210722101016.5370801b@bay6-hi5-1>: > Hi, > > This feels like a damnfool question, but I don't seem able to find an > appropriate solution. > > The situation: careless staff leaving desktops logged on, open tabs in > browsers, monitors left on etc.etc. > > First solution: cron job: '/sbin/shutdown -r now' run daily at 7pm ..and not e.g. '/sbin/shutdown -h -P "19:00 Shutdown at 7:00 pm!" ' in the morning? Would give your careless ones due warnings they may heed or not at their own peril... man shutdown for details. > But this reboots to a live console login (no dm installed) and I > haven't yet found a way to remotely configure the power management; > all the solutions seem to merge to one where X is already running (or > eliminating human error!). > > The situation is complicated by the need to subsequently disable power > management and screensaver so that online video (tutoring) doesn't get > interrupted once X and xfce are manually launched. So here is my > damnfool question: > > How can I manually turn any monitors off remotely if they are not > running X? The computers are all running Chimaera. ..ssh in and chk, then kill etc as needed. Can be automated, just needs ssh servers on all boxes, and some cronjob magic ambitions. > Sorry for such an elementary question, but it's eluded me. ..if you control the building power, follow up your First solution by cutting power at say 7:00:30pm, to kill off the rebooting desktops. Dirty, yeah. ;o) Just restore building power the next mornings to have your careful desktop riders welcome their live console logins. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] deprecated options (Was: Refracta have a static IP)
On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 10:53:08 +0100, Simon wrote in message <7cc6be17-5ce2-4ab4-bdd2-c86aef852...@thehobsons.co.uk>: > Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > > >> Perhaps it's time for the relevant package to spit out some notice > >> level logging when it hits deprecated options ? > > > > I can't imagine the volume of information that would produce on > > system upgrades, even updates packs. Unreadable, if you ask me: Too > > much information = No information, as it will be discarded. > > No, I'm not talking about changelogs - which as you say tend to get > very lengthy on a system upgrade and either ignored or are a pita to > wade through, and for many users, much of what's in there isn't > relevant to their use case. I'm talking about, as a service/daemon > starts, then it spits out a warning notice **IFF** a deprecated > option is encountered in the config. > > I've seen the latter many times, and it works - doesn't stop the > service working, doesn't disappear in a gazzillion pages of > changelogs that no-one reads (because a lot of the changelog isn't > relevant to the user's use case) - but does provide a warning that > the config needs re-visiting. ...which would warrant an email to root at that box. Don't we? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Refracta have a static IP
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:41:06 -0400, Steve wrote in message
<20210713164106.41efd...@mydesk.domain.cxm>:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to make my new Chimera based Refracta have a static IP
> address at 192.168.0.199/24, in order that every other computer on the
> 192.168.0.0/24 subnet can easily access it, and so I can put it on my
> LAN DNS.
>
> So I made my /etc/network/interfaces look like the following, which
> follows the guidelines of "man interfaces":
>
> ===
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> allow-hotplug eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.0.199
..could this be as simple as:
address 192.168.0.199/24 #??? It shouldn't be.
> gateway 192.168.0.1
> ===
>
> Unfortunately, instead of the IP address being 192.168.0.199, it's a
> DHCP supplied 192.168.0.204 . What additional steps must I take to get
> my desired 192.168.0.199?
>
> Additional note: When I used 192.168.0.40, which I KNOW is not in my
> leased DHCP range, the result was the same. What must I do to get a
> static IP at 192.168.0.199/24 ?
..many ways: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Devuan+fixed+ip+on+dhcp=web
or https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Devuan+static+ip+on+dhcp=web all shows
various ways to set up your dhcp client to request a specific ip, or
have your dhcp server deliver a specific ip address to a specific mac
address on that dhcp client. Etc.
..note that any of those servers or clients on your lan "may have"
caches or cached settings that you "may" wanna clean out. ;o)
..also, if you haven't set up ipv6, that too might mess up your lan.
..your problem looks quite a bit like:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/85047/losing-static-ip-and-and-getting-dhcp-ip
..e.g. /etc/dhcpcd.conf from link above:
# /etc/dhcpcd.conf
# to stop all my NICs from getting the DHCP address
# above any configured interface: (I am using 2 NICs
# both set at eth0 and eth1)
denyinterfaces eth0 eth1
...and #: /etc/init.d/networking restart
..a neater way, once everything works ok:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/alternating-between-dhcp-and-a-static-address-depending-on-availability-4175676466/
..the classic way, way down: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/DHCP/x74.html
at: 3.11. Alternative DHCP client (ISC dhclient):
...create a /etc/dhclient.conf file with this example configuration.
interface "eth0" {
send dhcp-client-identifier 1:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;
# send dhcp-lease-time 86400;
}
Here we assume that the ethernet interface is eth0. If not change
accordingly. Also replace xx:xx:xx:xx:xx with your ethernet address."
..classic serverside way: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/DHCP/x369.html where
you want: "You can also assign specific IP addresses based on clients
ethernet address e.g.
host haagen {
hardware ethernet 08:00:2b:4c:59:23;
fixed-address 192.168.1.222;
}
This will assign IP address 192.168.1.222 to a client with ethernet
address 08:00:2b:4c:59:23."
..aaaand, I found out why I found myself searching for "fixed",
rather than "static." ;o)
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
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[DNG] ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware.
Hi, ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware: FLOSS Audacity Fork without any Telemetry or Reporting: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity ..background: Not for children: Audacity fans drop the f-bomb after privacy agreement changes 'Fork.' What did you think we meant?: https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/05/audacity/ and: Audacity users stick the knife – and fork – in to strip audio editor of unwanted [espionage] features: https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/06/audacity_fork/ ..telemetry is nice e.g. when it helps me fly my model aircraft safely back home to base before they run out of juice, and bad, when it helps my enemies spy on me. ..aaand, it appears the systemd folks agrees with me: ;o) https://github.com/Azure/sonic-buildimage/issues/7243 is the top hit from: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=systemd+telemetry -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..how to installing it from a git repository "the good old Debian way", was: Hopman and inotify
On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 16:42:47 +0200, Didier wrote in message : > Le 13/06/2021 à 23:29, Haines Brown a écrit : > > I tried hopman some years ago and loved it, But when installed on a > > new machine failed copy the code. Would anyone indulge me by > > pointing to a link to the current stete of the application? > > > "Legacy" hopman is back on gitlab, at > https://git.devuan.org/kryn/hopman > <https://git.devuan.org/kryn/hopman>. The executable is now > named /usr/bin/hopman-GTK2, and a symbolic link to it is created in > the same directory with the name hopman. > > To build and install it, first retrieve it from > https://git.devuan.org/kryn/hopman > <https://git.devuan.org/kryn/hopman> ; Make sure you have the GTK+-2 > library installed, eg libgtk-2.0 and libgtk-2.0-dev; > then go to the subdirectory hopman-1.1; ..to do it "the good old Debian way", what are the missing stages that would prevent a "make deb && dpkg -i hopman" from working? > make && sudo make install && make cleanall > > Declare hopman as autostarted application of your desktop session. > Alternatively run it from the application menu (submenu: system). > > In the default configuration, hopman uses the following > applications to perform the requested actions: pmount, pumount, > thunar, xfce4-terminal. This is all customizable: read man hopmanrc. > > To uninstall, 'sudo make uninstall' .."the good old Debian way" would allow both "dpkg -P hopman", "dpkg -r hopman" and "apt remove hopman" etc, using the apt database to help avoid conflicts etc with other software. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] problem with apt after restore after crashed disk...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 23:12:28 +0100 (BST), Jim wrote in message : > On Mon, 28 Jun 2021, tempforever wrote: > > > Jim Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, 28 Jun 2021, ael wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 01:11:20PM +0100, Jim Jackson wrote: > > > > If not, can anyone tell where I can get the devuan libapt-pkg5.0 > > package file? ..try "aptitude update & download libapt-pkg5.0 \ & |grep libapt-pkg ". -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 00:18:41 +1000, terryc wrote in message <20210627001841.1966c...@dragonfly.woa.com.au>: > On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 13:33:56 +0200 > "d...@d404.nl" wrote: > > > > The right command is apt full-upgrade. > > > > The main difference between full-upgrade and upgrade is > > full-upgrade also delete dependencies which are no longer used. ..doh! > > I guess that the older version apt-get dist-upgrade does do > > something similar. > > Weirdly, I've never heard of apt full-upgrade. ..possibly a case of not paying attention when reading manpages, or in my case today, not reading all of todays posts in this thread before posting on things I didn't recall. ;oD > It is always been; > sudo apt-get update > sudo apt-get upgrade > sudo apt-get dist-upgrade > and occasionally one of the upgrades will suggest > sudo apr autoremove ..playing around with all the "apt family members" helps you find solutions whenever any of the members fails to solve a dependency etc puzzle. ..pick a favorite goto member and use that as your "daily driver" to keep your apt depencency puzzle database manageable, and keep yourself proficient on the other members so you can use those to find solutions whenever your goto member fails to solve a puzzle. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] APT upgrade (was Re: USB mount problem)
On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:44:00 +0900, Olaf wrote in message <87czs887cf.fsf@quark>: > Please keep in mind that apt and apt-get are two different commands. > That said, their sets of upgrade subcommands overlap a bit. Checking > the manual pages > > apt: upgrade full-upgrade > apt-get: upgrade dist-upgrade dselect-upgrade ..whenever (my goto) aptitude upgrade fails, one of the 2 above usually solves the dependency puzzle, IME at least apt-get and aptitude solves these dependency etc puzzles slightly differently, which is why and how one may work when the other fails. > Upon first glance manual pages make it look as if full-upgrade and > dist-upgrade are the same but I am not sure the details of package > dependency conflict resolution it identical for both. ..they are slightly different and I don't recall the differences right now. > On Beowulf, a `man apt` gives a manual page dated 2019-01-27. If you > didn't install man-db and/or are looking for on-line manual pages, try > > https://manpages.debian.org/apt -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..hillybilly-style time setting, was: ntp setup
On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 13:15:13 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20210620201513.gs12...@linuxmafia.com>: > For those who want to set the time hillybilly-style, i.e., Just Do It ...by e.g. pointing your favorite web browser to https://time.is/ and copy the time error into the middle date command line after the "-s": "date --rfc-3339=ns & --rfc-3339=ns -s '+0.096 seconds' & \ --rfc-3339=ns " ..the first "date" command shows your computer's opinion of the time, the second "date" command forces your opinion, right or wrong, upon it, the third "date" command shows your computer's obedient opinion of the time after a wee little while, aka after a few milliseconds. ..the "--rfc-3339=ns" nicely and verbosely shows you when time keeping is best handed over to ntp, rather than trying to nail it down with https://time.is/ reloads. > and Yes, My System Clock Is Possibly Way Off, ..aye, https://time.is/ will happily tell you "Your time is exact!" anytime you're inside its error margins. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210617000235.sunedmrx24ulc...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > wrote: ... > ... > > > > Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > > the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > > that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > > under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to > > Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't > > installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. > > Historical note. > > And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost > identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed > primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the > last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. ..say "no major problems running without systemd.", and I'll agree. ..my opinion remains we should have started from Debian Wheezy, where those first systemd bits were snuck in, but I wasn't around here when that major decision was made. I still had not seen Theodore T'so have problems with systemd, so I still believed my own problems with that, was me falling too far behind from work with http://groklaw.net/ for about 11 years. As you may see, there were hundreds of thousands of us doing Groklaw. It was addictive. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..udisksctl dump bug?, or just not yet started, was: USB mount problem
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 23:24:53 +, g4sra wrote in message <3-I1Mnq-aToducQnh5CLImg2nSd5IZQh3GNsh5DGpNaw4iha0dcDylg6VBobmontQ4d-Cw1nNK92q69Pk6GKIqfdaGEnJ602bNj0F-Qnc-I=@protonmail.com>: > You read it in the man page, you do not start udisksd that way. > what does the following command display when run with root > privileges... > > udisksctl dump ..a bug? For me, the first time, the 'less' part of it didn't respond to 'q', so I '^C'ed it, got an error message I don't remember ending "Press enter", so I did, udisksctl dump immediately restarted, another '^C' did what it should have done the first time, and now 'udisksctl \ dump' appears to work just fine, responding as it should to both 'q' and to '^C'. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 08:49:24 -0700, Fred wrote in message : > Hello, > > I have a new Beowulf AMD64 install and am having trouble mounting USB > storage devices. > > The USB keyboard and mouse work ok. lsusb shows the storage device > is present. The usbmount program is apparently no longer available > and I haven't been able to find what took its place. I have another > computer that had Debian Jessie installed then was upgraded to > Beowulf x86. It has usbmount and will automatically mount USB > storage devices. > > What do I need to install? ..easy now, first find out a few things. "fdisk -l " as root will tell you which filesystems you have whenever you stick something into your box. "mount -v /dev/a_filesystem_found_with_fdisk_-l_ /mnt" will either confirm it worked, or be a little bit more verbose about why it failed. Pile on more "-v" if you want more, or chk "info mount". .."man -k mount " will tell you what mount like things you have installed, "apt-cache search mount " will search for more of these mount like things, e.g. "apt-cache show mount " will give you more details on each search find. ..I'm really a little too old fashion to advice on those new fancy usb key etc automount things. Anyone? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..maybe webmin?, was: Cockpit removal might make sense
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 15:24:32 +0900, Simon wrote in message <73cac9f0-c1cf-c050-dcf6-a465c8826...@gikaku.com>: > On 5/26/21 5:23 PM, Mark Hindley wrote: > > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 04:23:56PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > >> On 5/26/21 12:37 AM, Mark Hindley wrote: > >>> This is actually a Debian bug and should be fixed there. > >>> > >>> If cockpit requires systemd, is should declare that dependency. ..snip "tech" justification of subversive systemd politics. > So in summary, there is no way of running cockpit in a > non-systemd/Linux environment that I'd be willing to support. ..found just 3 mentions of "systemd", and this gem in: https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/c/cockpit/cockpit_243-1_changelog "- Detect unregistered RHEL systems on Software Updates page" ..now, Martin Pitt does offer a good recommendation: > For these I'd rather recommend looking at webmin, ebox, or similar > project." ..https://alternativeto.net/software/cockpit-linux/ ..to maintain e.g. webmin (https://www.webmin.com/ ) support for cockpit, you may wanna look at these 2: ... "https://packages.debian.org/sid/cockpit-bridge Cockpit bridge server-side component The Cockpit bridge component installed server side and runs commands on the system on behalf of the web based user interface." ...and "https://packages.debian.org/sid/cockpit-tests Tests for Cockpit This package contains tests and files used while testing Cockpit. These files are not required for running Cockpit." ... ...and check systemd and cockpit brass thinking: ... https://packages.debian.org/sid/cockpit-doc "Cockpit deployment and developer guide The Cockpit Deployment and Developer Guide shows sysadmins how to deploy Cockpit on their machines as well as helps developers who want to embed or extend Cockpit." ...against: https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/cockpit and the possible potential Ken Thompson style hacks: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Ken+Thompson+style+hacks=web ..and, who needs a compiler with systemd onboard? My guess is systemd running as PID1, can be set up to launch such possible "Ken Thompson style hack" attacks, all you need to do is hide them away in binaries somewhere "neccessary" online, so these new Cockpit web admin user systemd victims never understand them, even if they ever find out how to read such C etc code... ..on cockpit and alternatives: https://www.unixmen.com/cockpit-a-beginner-friendly-server-administration-tool/ https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2020/241/Cockpit https://www.hostingadvice.com/how-to/cpanel-vs-plesk-vs-webpanel/ https://alternativeto.net/software/webmin/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_hosting_control_panels ..cockpit is not known by Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_(disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search=500=0=default=intitle%3A%22Cockpit%22=1 ..turns out ebox changed its name, and, it does not support Procmail: https://zentyal.com/features/ ..webmin supports procmail. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan eBook Reader
On Tue, 25 May 2021 08:35:12 +1000, terryc wrote in message <20210525083512.4f6a1...@dragonfly.woa.com.au>: > On Mon, 24 May 2021 19:25:16 + > g4sra via Dng wrote: > > > I am shocked at the amount of 'user profiling' the OEM firmware > > performs which is then sent to Chinese servers. I have temporarily > > knobbled the network until I find a more permanent solution. > > > > > > > > Has anyone attempted to put Devuan on an eBook yet ? > > Er, read an e-book on Devuan(jessie, ascii, beowulf and chamaera?)? > Just use okular with the extras. all in the appropriate reposiroty. ..and if you don't like okular, find alternatives with e.g. "man -k e-book" or "man -k ebook" or "apt-cache search e-book", and find the details on each with e.g. "apt-cache show okular". -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] PartialSolve Re: Chimaera; Lost sound
On Fri, 21 May 2021 18:21:12 +1000, terryc wrote in message
<20210521182112.2cd5f...@dragonfly.woa.com.au>:
> On Fri, 21 May 2021 16:48:07 +1000
> terryc wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 20 May 2021 21:50:18 -0700
> > Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 12:52:29PM +1000, terryc wrote:
> > > > I carried out the install from the recommended(last) chimera iso
> > > > and all basically was well. Sounds was there, but I didn't want
> > > > pulseaudio and removed it and installed alsa, alsaplayer,
> > > > alsamixer, etc.
> > > >
> > > > But I have no sound. It seems to have something to do with
> > > > certain drivers for PCMs not being installed.
> > >
> > > What does
> > >
> > > amixer -c0 get PCM
> > > amixer -c1 get PCM
> > >
> > > give you?
> >
> > Here tis;
> >
> > user@system:~$ amixer -c0 get PCM
> > amixer: Unable to find simple control 'PCM',0
> >
> > user@system:~$ amixer -c1 get PCM
> > Simple mixer control 'PCM',0
> > Capabilities: pvolume
> > Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
> > Limits: Playback 0 - 255
> > Mono:
> > Front Left: Playback 182 [71%] [-14.60dB]
> > Front Right: Playback 182 [71%] [-14.60dB]
> >
> > Terryc
>
> After a fair bit of searching `in turns out that
> /etc/asound.coinf and/or ~.asoundrc were missing
>
> Entering (/etc/asound.conf)
> for system wide setting.
>
> pcm.!default {
> type hw
> card 1
> }
>
> ctl.!default {
> type hw
> card 1
> }
>
> and a reboot fixed it.
>
> Entering (~.asoundrc)
> for oersonal(per login) setting
>
> defaults.pcm.!card 1
> defaults.ctl.!card 1
>
> YMMN, but that is all I need as I do not have any HDMI speakers or USB
> speakers, or bluetooth speakers.
>
> This fixed it for vlc, qasmixer and alsamixer in that they correctly
> took the speakers I wanted as default and I didnt have to manually
> select the motherboard sound chip.
>
> I'm still working on why the browsers(falkon & firefox-esr) and
> quiterss(what ever browser it loads) are not playing sound.
..try apulse $them, at least the firefox people said they
"would only support PulseAudio" a while back.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
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Re: [DNG] Please don't imply this kind of equality: was Re: End of free open source software?
On Mon, 10 May 2021 14:44:49 -0400, Steve wrote in message <2021051019.6e43f...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > Lars Noodén via Dng said on Sun, 9 May 2021 13:52:05 +0300 > > >On 5/9/21 12:57 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > >> On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message > >> <202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>: > > >>> Thats just bullshit bingo. > >> > >> ..so was The Donald and der Adolf. > > The preceding sentence was written by a guy I've /dev/nulled since > 2014, so I'm not going to try to convince him, but I'd like to appeal > to anyone else who might ever try to imply an equivalence between > hitler and almost anyone else, including donald trump. > > I despise trump. Anyone on Facebook knows how much: My facebook page > is public. I've spent hundreds of hours campaigning against him, and > hundreds of dollars in campaign contributions to oust him and his > cronies from office, and I support his imprisonment for his crimes. > He's responsible for the deaths of 400,000 to 500,000 Americans, give > or take. > > But trump doesn't rise to hitler's criminality. He didn't build death > camps. Although trump's victims tended to be from certain racial "out > groups", he didn't specifically target pick and choose members of > those groups for extermination. Although 500,000 is a substantial > number, enough to call it a genocide if applied directly to certain > groups, 500,000 is a lot smaller than 11,000,000. ..aye. And it's 13,518,250, if you accept the lowest estimate on der Adolf. Yes, it _can_ be argued "Trump was stopped in time.", if you accept the idea that half a million dead is a silly prank. Or 25,495,692+. Adolf Hitler is bad, but not the worst genocider in human history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll#List_of_political_leaders_and_regimes_by_death_toll ..having watched well over 200 million die from pollusion in water, air, and in the food supply, starvation, the absence of clean affordable heat and energy and the climate collapsing since 1998 when the Norwegian government (or Statoil/"Equinor"?) stopped me from making a business out of my own thermochemical gasification technology that should have landed me about 15% of the global energy market making cheap clean water, heat, electricity and carbon for terra preta type syntetic farmland soils out of common municipal solid etc waste, and cut about a 1/3 of carbon emmissions by outcompeting fossil fuels on price alone, I respectfully disagree Adolf Hitler is that much worse than Donald J. Trump, they are both genociders under both International and American Law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1091 http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide ..at least 6 refuge children died in Trump's border camps, and it only takes one death to convict him and his regime for genocide under 18 U.S. Code § 1091(b)(1) or (2). > You might ask why I write all this. 2 reasons: > > 1) I'm Jewish > 2) I read history books ..did you know Holocoust true start was the 1927 "Sigøinerparagraf" put into law by the Norw. parliament? > When *anybody*, with the possible exception of stalin and pol pot, is > compared to hitler, it normalizes hitler's atrocities. My ex > girlfriend once showed me her family tree, in book form. Many, many > pages were crossed out, killed by hitler. > > So please: Don't write or say things that makes an equivalency between > trump and hitler. They're both very bad, but one is much, much worse. ..as stated above, I respectfully disagree. > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the > Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?
On Sun, 9 May 2021 14:27:24 +0200, Dr. wrote in message <202105091427.24515.off...@klepp.biz>: > Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 11:57:59 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen scripsit: > > On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message > > <202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>: > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200 > > > tito via Dng scripsit: > > > > Hi to all, > > > > today while reading online my selection of international > > > > newspapers on the german www. faz.net I've found this little > > > > article which made my antennas vibrate, link is: > > > > > > > > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html > > > > > > > > > > Thats just bullshit bingo. > > > > ..so was The Donald and der Adolf. The good news here is, today's > > Germans have the experience and therefore much more wisdom to deal > > with such bullshit bingo to keep it from repeating itself, and to > > aim it somewhere useful and to fire up the French etc on it. > > Keep your eyes open. > > Sorry, the whole EU is going the totalitarian road nowadays - just to ..you read my "Germans" as "EUropeans"? ;o) I hear you, I voted "No!" on joining the EU in 1994 after watching Norw. premier Gro Harlem Brundtland telling us the Russians were somehow "so dangerous we have to join the EU" after shooting down the Russian democracy on take-off, turning down newly elected President Boris Yeltsin's plea for help with their first ever free parliament election, by telling him "to instead make use of the Supreme Soviet" on his visit in 1991, either to protect a very promising future high ranking secret agent, or to save her own ass. ..one thing is seeing things, the second thing is understanding what you see, the third thing is believing your own understanding of what you saw, the fourth thing is understanding what sort of country you live in... ;o) > name Kurz, Orban, Zensursula, CDU/CSD etc., all elected in a vote and > misuse their power to create totalitarian systems. That quoting from > FAZ is targeting $$$ companies, not FOSS. And that's the reason, why > this is just "hot air" - the said politian is from CDU which freely > translates to "not interested in citicens". ..like I said, keep your eyes open. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message <202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>: > Hi! > > Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200 > tito via Dng scripsit: > > Hi to all, > > today while reading online my selection of international newspapers > > on the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which > > made my antennas vibrate, link is: > > > > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html > > > > Thats just bullshit bingo. ..so was The Donald and der Adolf. The good news here is, today's Germans have the experience and therefore much more wisdom to deal with such bullshit bingo to keep it from repeating itself, and to aim it somewhere useful and to fire up the French etc on it. Keep your eyes open. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking our kernels from Debian?
On Tue, 4 May 2021 10:00:25 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20210504170025.gb18...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:37:20 +0200, Arnt wrote in message > > <20210430143720.7311bc82@d44>: > > > > > > > https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/29/stealthy_linux_backdoor_malware_spotted/ > > > > > > > ..how it works: > > https://blog.netlab.360.com/stealth_rotajakiro_backdoor_en/ > > Answer: Avoid installing and running it. > > This isn't any kind of intrusion tool, just yet another backdoor > program that can be installed and activated after intrusion through > other means entirely -- indistinguishable except in fine detail from > countless others that have existed for decades. And _TheReg_ was > very clear about that: > > The malware is not an exploit; rather it's a payload that opens a > backdoor on the targeted machine. It might be installed by an > unsuspecting user, an intruder, or through a dropper Trojan. How > RotaJakiro has been distributed remains unanswered. > > So, there ya go: Avoid installing and running it. It's called system > administration. ..very true. Are there ways to trick common Devuan installs into automatically installing these bad things? (Other than tricking newbie etc users, sysadmins etc into doing it?) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking our kernels from Debian?
On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:37:20 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20210430143720.7311bc82@d44>: > https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/29/stealthy_linux_backdoor_malware_spotted/ > ..how it works: https://blog.netlab.360.com/stealth_rotajakiro_backdoor_en/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking our kernels from Debian?
Spam detection software, running on the system "tupac3.dyne.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hi, ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking a lot of our .debs, kernels etc, from Debian? ..from El Reg: https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/29/stealthy_linux_backdoor_malware_spotted/ Content analysis details: (6.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description -- -- 1.2 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net [Blocked - see <https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?23.129.64.232>] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSSRBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [23.129.64.232 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [46.30.212.3 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_EF Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.1 DKIM_SIGNEDMessage has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 1.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server [23.129.64.232 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [46.30.212.3 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders --- Begin Message --- Hi, ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking a lot of our .debs, kernels etc, from Debian? ..from El Reg: https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/29/stealthy_linux_backdoor_malware_spotted/ ..it would be about as easy to sneak it in and make it run on our init systems, but also quite a bit easier to discover by competent users and sysadmins. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. --- End Message --- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Steps to recover from borked grub-update
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 11:14:10 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20210427111410.1609c...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > terryc said on Tue, 27 Apr 2021 16:23:34 +1000 > > > >Yes, basically what I've tried, but there s no /efi/devuan. > >I've just had no success being able to access any of the file system. > > > >i'm begiing to think that if this sort of problems keep recurring, it > >will be a step back to the future from the time when the first hing > >you did after installing a system was to created a boot floppy; boot > >cd/dvd these days. > > > >Any way, Thank you. > >I've decided to risk it and attempt an OS re-install despite the > >rebuilt mailer requiring three attempts to get a booting sstem. > > WAIT > > You can boot most "rescue cd" live distros and pick "boot next > partition" or whatever, and it will boot the next found partition with > the kernel from the rescue cd. > > Which brings up the fact that it would be nice for there to be a > Devuan rescue CD (and thumbdrive) that can find all possible OSes and > boot to your choice, using the live CD's kernel. Can Refracta already > do that? ..huh? Did we|Devuan remove the "rescue" boot options from our boot or install isos? If we didn't, a booted iso should offer Debian style advice on how to do things once you start hitting "F1", "F2" etc function keys. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Screen flickering
On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:32:30 +0200, Antony wrote in message <202104081732.30426.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > On Thursday 08 April 2021 at 17:26:42, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > > > >> I would boot from an installation USB / CD (preferably the one > > >> you set the > > >> machine up from) and go into Rescue Mode, and see whether the > > >> hardware still > > >> continues behaving the same way. > > > > > > I just did that on the latest Devuan Beowulf Live distro (kernel > > > 4.19.0-14), and... no flickering! > > > > Booting back on the internal disk... No flickering. > > I just don't get it. Would it be hardware/cable-related in the end? > > *sighs* > > I would say yes, it sounds like a dodgy cable / solder joint / > connector to me. ..it could quite simply be dust collected inside your machine causing overheating triggering hardware trottling to near your power grid frequency, e.g. down from say 60Hz in a 50Hz country like France, to say 42Hz, which mould have your screen flicker at say 8Hz. ..fix is easy in this case, open your machine and clean it out with e.g. pressurized air in a well ventilated area. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ??
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 21:00:41 +0200 (CEST), k...@aspodata.se wrote in message <20210331190041.88ab78246...@turkos.aspodata.se>: > Hendrik: > > I reset my personal day when I go to sleep at night. So when I'm a > > night owl I'll cheerfully use times like 23:00, 24:00, 25:00 ..., > > all treated as part of the same day. > > Reminds me of the municpal bus company in Stockholm, at least in the > 80-ies, the day went on to I think 29:00, depending on if you > started your job after or before midnight i.e. ..yeah, but 56:something got stupidly inefficient at the end, I even drove home from the first one of those, fortunately there was daylight and _no_ traffic. ..the last one was in my own home, when the Serbs kicked Slobodan Milosevic out of office, I wound up not being able to read my pc screen for some reason, tried to wipe the dust(?) off my screen, and essentially saw my forearms disappear into some grey screen hole. Best ever bed time hint I've ever seen. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:54:07 -0500, Tony wrote in message <14564811-2130-7180-6027-e243671fe...@accesslab.com>: > I also believe what you just said to be very true, the cancer is in > irreversible control. Perhaps this human trait is why typically > civilizations and countries only last a few hundred or couple of > thousand years then disappear. ..looks like a global tradition going back all the way to the trilobites some 400 million years ago... "Yeehaw." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ?? [SOLVED]
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:13:00 +0200, Dario wrote in message <20210330171300.ga3...@darioniedermann.it>: > Il 30/03/2021 alle 18:59, Adam Borowski ha scritto: > > >I bet your locale is set to en_US. > > Indeed it is! > > [...] > >So in Buster (and thus Beowulf and Chimaera), meaning of "en_US" > >changed to include that silly 12-hour time. > > Surely they couldn't avoid fixing what wasn't broken. Thank you for > steering me in the right direction: I found that setting LC_TIME=C > is enough to get my 24 hours back. ..oneliner quickie fix: Paste the below into all xterms you want fixed: date &_TIME=C.UTF-8 & LC_TIME & ..longer term fix: locale >>/etc/default/locale then edit /etc/default/locale to your liking, then maybe do an export loop like: for i in $(cat /etc/default/locale ) ;do echo $i \ && export $(echo $i |cut -d"=" -f1 ) & $i \ /etc/default/locale & |grep $i ;done -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Remote two-way sound?
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:57:55 +, g4sra wrote in message : > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Saturday, March 27, 2021 6:22 PM, g4sra via Dng > wrote: > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Saturday, March 27, 2021 5:32 PM, Antony Stone > > antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it wrote: > > > > On Saturday 27 March 2021 at 17:29:56, tito via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 16:36:46 +0100 Antony Stone wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of a remote access mechanism which supports > > > > > two-way sound? > > > > > > > Krdc (Kde remote desltop client) has a setting: > > > > Sound: on this computer / Remote computer /disable sound > > > > and Alsa/Pulseaudio/None. > > > > > > I've always interpreted that as sound from the remote machine > > > coming to me, but not including a microphone on my machine > > > getting converyed to the other end. > > > > > > > Cannot say if it does what you want as I don't use audio in > > > > remote desktop sessions. > > > > > > Nor me, usually, but this is a simple thing for me to try (since > > > I already have KDE at both ends) so I'll see what it does. > > > > > > Antony. > > > > > Never tried, but I have a project coming up that requires exactly > > this. I suggest you avoid getting bogged down in Desktops and > > complexity which has little to do with sourcing audio streams. > > > My first google turned up this... > > http://www.pogo.org.uk/~mark/trx/streaming-desktop-audio.html > > > > > if you try it please post how you get on, as I intend to go down > > this route you could save me some work :). > > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > TRX seems to work OK, seamlessly integrates with ALSA, minimalist > RTS protocol KISS style wins the day. Took me a moment to twig that a > local IP address must be specified on the receiver if the host's IPv6 > interfaces have been knobbled (which mine have). Not yet got the > audio quality/rate quite right yet (want it lower) but plenty of > scope to play with in the settings. ..beware of file name conflicts and weird rx responses ;o) ... arnt@d44:~$ which rx /usr/bin/rx arnt@d44:~$ dpkg -S $(which rx) lrzsz: /usr/bin/rx arnt@d44:~$ dpkg -l $(dpkg -S $(which rx) |tr -d ":") |grep ii dpkg-query: no packages found matching /usr/bin/rx ii lrzsz 0.12.21-10 amd64 Tools for zmodem/xmodem/ymodem file transfer -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF and human rights
people, for many, many years, around the once very unpopular > stance of init-choice. Don't put that at risk. ..IMNTHO, I believe Devuan as a distro should support and endorse RMS coming back to the FSF etc boards, for precisely that reason, lowering the long term risk to Devuan's reputation, by standing firm on spine, integrity and wisdom. > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the > Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] rm not freeing space
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:54:20 -0700, Marc wrote in message <74553f6b-2616-70e1-e742-1ce9275b3...@gmail.com>: > On 3/15/21 6:31 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 10:28:32PM -0700, Marc Shapiro via Dng > > wrote: > >> On 3/14/21 10:09 PM, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > >>> I assume you read the man page of fsck, as it's return code is > >>> what you want to pay attention to. > >>> > >>> As for lsof, the correct parameters would be `lsof +aL1 /dev/sdx. > >>> It should have thrown an error were you to use `lsof -L1`. If > >>> lsof returns nothing, your drive is most likely corrupted. > >> You are correct. I used '+L' NOT '-L'. > >>> It may also be possible that the files you removed have other > >>> references on your file system, aka. hard links. To find them, you > >>> would need to know the inode number, either by using `stat` or > >>> `ls -i`. You can then find them using `find -inum`. > >>> > >>> Since you already removed the files, you most likely can't know > >>> the inode number. However you could throw a `find $path -size > >>> n[cwbkMG]` to list the files with the matching size. > >> I'm not following you on this. What is this going to do for me? > >> 'find' is only going to show undeleted files. How does this > >> help? > > It is possible for a single file to be hard-linked in several > > places in the file system. If so, removing it in one place will > > still leave it accessible from another, and therefore not deleted. > > > > Files have reference counts to keep track of this. > > These files should not have any links, hard or soft. None of the > other files in that directory show a reference count above 1. They > are backup files created by fsarchiver. I'm just trying to free up > space by deleting files from January. ..any chance they have white-space-character-only names? E.g. " ", " ", " " etc, or Norwegian æ, ø, å, or some invisible non-Latin alphabet soup not supported by your fonts nor locales? You should still be able to cut-n-paste those and have them show up as high-lighted boxes. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan 3.1 media coverage
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:36:26 +0100, Ludovic wrote in message <20210218163626.557de...@aasterinian.home>: > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 13:41:52 +0100 > Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > > > Nice, Devuan made it to the reputable german IT news at heise.de > > (also home of the internet magazine 'telepolis') again: > > > > https://www.heise.de/-5057592 > > > > libre Grüße, > > Florian > > > > Posivite review I presume? ..I'd say yes, AFAIU German and Googlish. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 20:20:46 +0900, Olaf wrote in message <87sg66vm9d.fsf@quark>: > Hi Steve, > > # I'm not a systemd fan. I just happen to run two Debian servers at > the # office and gained some experience with systemd ... most of it > the hard # and less than pleasant way :-/ ... > The issue is with systemd's log configuration, the gory details of > which you can explore by going down the rabbit hole that starts at > > https://manpages.debian.org/buster/systemd/journald.conf.5.en.html > > If you don't want the systemd-journald.service to log anything, just > say > > Storage=none ..canary-bird-in-coal-mine idea: If you do _both_ ways described in "Journal events can be transferred to a different logging daemon in two different ways." in the "FORWARDING TO TRADITIONAL SYSLOG DAEMONS" section of https://manpages.debian.org/buster/systemd/journald.conf.5.en.html , and diff those 2 log streams, you should be able to catch any new rabbit hole shenanigans. Etc. Not tested here. > in journald.conf and be done with it. Log messages are still > forwarded to a syslog socket so if you have rsyslog installed you > should be good. > > Of course, switching to Devuan may be an easier long term solution :-) > Or some other distro that let's you choose your prefered init system. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Anybody successfully worked with an Nvidia GeForce gt 710 with Devuan?
On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 02:54:44 -0500, Steve wrote in message <20201203025444.38d57...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 12:43:23 -0500 > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > From: Hendrik Boom > > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > > Subject: Re: [DNG] Anybody successfully worked with an Nvidia > > GeForce gt 710 with Devuan? Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 12:43:23 -0500 > > Sender: "Dng" > > User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) > > > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 12:26:05PM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 05:10:29 -0500, Steve wrote in message > > > <20201130051029.510f1...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > > > > > > > On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 19:48:34 +0100 > > > > Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Steve Litt wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone successfully worked with an Nvidia GeForce gt 710 > > > > > > with Devuan? As a bonus, has anyone gotten it to work > > > > > > without Pulseaudio? > > > > > > > > > > did you try nouveau? It is your only long-term hope, the short > > > > > term being using binary drivers. > > > > > > > > Yes. Works fairly well, but intermittently X just > > > > terminates. > > > > > > ..doing what, like X freezing and hangs the whole machine? > > > > I have something like that happening when the system runs out of > > memory. It becomes unresponsive to keyboard and mouse, and appears > > to freeze. > > This computer has 64GB of ram tested through a whole 4 hour pass of > memtest86, and htop shows it using next to none of that RAM. > > I'll tell you what: If it weren't for the video, this would be a > really kick ass machine. Its six cores map to 12 in htop and gkrellm. > Running Chromium with several youtube movies playing uses up maybe > 5%. On my current Daily Driver Desktop (DDD) such activities take > about 70% of the CPU. ..right, that means you can afford running a debug kernel as your dayly driver kernel on those 6 cores and find out WTF is going on. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:35:16 -0600, o1bigtenor wrote in message : > On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 6:09 PM Bernard Rosset via Dng > wrote: > > > > Certbot has removed support of certbot-auto for Debian-based systems > > (cf. > > https://github.com/certbot/certbot/blob/adacc4ab6dc63b024b17f0ec5adeb1adc9f93300/certbot-auto#L802). ..looks like we should thank them. :o) > > Official instructions for Debian > > (https://certbot.eff.org/lets-encrypt/debianbuster-other) tell to > > use the snapd package (https://packages.debian.org/buster/snapd)... > > which depends on systemd and has not been rebuilt separately for > > Devuan yet. > > > > Is there any plan to do so? > > I know making the list of repackaged packages grow is troublesome > > for maintenance future-wise... > > > > Greetings > > I would suggest that you stay as far as you can form snapd! > I spent about 8 months working on/with it and in the end was totally > frustrated. > After you install snapd - - - - -well canonical will upgrade anything > AND everything on its schedule. You CANNOT change that! The longest > file in the forum is individuals asking for an off switch for > updates. You can push it to about 60 days with some serious tap > dancing. I tried ALL the options giving to stop the triggered updates > - - - my machine responded by shutting down. So I didn't get the > updates but the machine would shut itself off when it was time for > upgrades. Then I tried to remove the shebang! I tried using $rm -r > and still had 'crap' hanging around. Got real frustrated with that. > Left the mess for about a year and then when I tried to restart the > machine I couldn't get a complete reboot (even using secure boot for > repair). So I was forced to replace the complete system - - - - a > right royal pita. > > The idea is good (lxd) but snapd - - - - that's toxic! ..I (dis)agree, to me, snapd looks more like an attempt to replace apt, yum etc packaging systems with pötterisms, rather than an attempt to help the EFF automate encrypting the web with certbot: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd https://github.com/snapcore https://snapcraft.io/docs https://snapcraft.io/store ..so Tor is secure under snap? Or, like under systemd?: https://snapcraft.io/search?category=security ..about certbot: https://certbot.eff.org/about/ https://certbot.eff.org/docs/intro.html https://letsencrypt.org/ https://github.com/certbot/certbot ..how does the guys running Slackware, and the *BSDs do this certbot thing, and how does it work with e.g. Tor? ..meanwhile, I too lean towards Ian's contrarianism: http://michael.orlitzky.com/articles/lets_not_encrypt.xhtml -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:59:01 -0500, Mason wrote in message <20201201145900.gv5...@blisses.org>: > On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 03:33:41PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > > What, specifically, gets installed as part of Devuan which you > > don't want to see there? > > As an exercise, try doing a minimal install via debootstrap, which is > arguably the easiest way to tailor an install. I've thus far not > managed to get an install through without elogind creeping in, even > if I explicitly mark it as something to ignore. The Devuan live media > I use for installs runs elogind. It sort of reminds me of the Agent > Smith virus speech from The Matrix. ..try replace elogind with (experimental) seatd: On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 01:26:32 +0100, Arnt wrote in message <20201201012632.026f9c65@d44>: > ..will experimental seatd be part of our escape from pötterisms like > d-bus and (e)logind?: > https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/experimental/experimental/seatd_0.4.0-1~rc1.html > https://git.sr.ht/~kennylevinsen/seatd > > ..git clone https://git.sr.ht/~kennylevinsen/seatd and have a > look. :o) > > > libsystemd0 is a stub library which contains none of the > > objectionable code or "features" which people who don't want > > systemd are trying to keep away from. > > Unix libraries bundle related functionality together so that you can > link just that which you need. Can you explain how libsystemd0 fits > into this model? I'm unclear on what set of related functions it > provides. > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] cups in ceres
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 11:39:37 +, Le wrote in message <20201130113937.6da5d2fa@cruncher>: > Hello, > > I'm getting a circular problem upgrading cups in ceres. I've been > tackling this for a week or so. I need two root terminals open: one > to apt-get and the other to top + kill apt-get and dpkg. The sequence > goes like this: > > [xterm1]#apt-get update && apt-get upgrade > ... > all goes well (apart from the nvidea-persistentd under discussion) > ... then comes the problem > > Setting up printer-driver-cups-pdf (3.0.1-6) ... > Reloading Common Unix Printing System: cupsd > [apt-get freezes] > > [xterm2]# top > #kill PID of apt-get > #apt-get install -f > E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock. It is held by process [PID] > (dpkg) > N: Be aware that removing the lock file is not a solution and > may break your system. > E: Unable to lock the administration directory > (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? > # kill PID of dpkg > > [xterm1] # Terminated ># empty prompt > > [xterm2} # apt-get install -f > E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' > to correct the problem. >#dpkg --configure -a > > ...all goes well until > > [xterm2] #Setting up printer-driver-cups-pdf (3.0.1-6) ... > Reloading Common Unix Printing System: cupsd. > [dpkg freezes] > [but a simple Ctrl+C allows it to proceed] > ^Cdpkg: error processing package printer-driver-cups-pdf > (--configure): installed printer-driver-cups-pdf package > post-installation script subprocess was interrupted > > and so on. ..I _have_ gotten away with adding "exit 0" lines in these scripts to make and/or keep apt and dpkg happy, I'm not saying this didn't cause problems elsewhere. ..chk the dpkg --force-help options for better ideas. ..some commands in these install script can be made more verbose adding the occational -v or --verbose whereever you want them. ..also play with nice and cpulimit etc to slow down apt and dpkg etc enough to stay in control of your machine, so you can see WTF is going on in there. > I've tried to apt-get remove --purge printer-driver-cups-pdf but it > removes it and then freezes immediately after, presumably on the > post-installation script. > > The only way I've been able to get this far (it used to freeze > at reloading cupsd) was by using the linux-brprinter-installer script > from brother which crashes through everything with a dpkg -f option. > > Any ideas? ..inline. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] cups in ceres
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 11:39:37 +, Le wrote in message <20201130113937.6da5d2fa@cruncher>: > Hello, > > I'm getting a circular problem upgrading cups in ceres. I've been > tackling this for a week or so. I need two root terminals open: one > to apt-get and the other to top + kill apt-get and dpkg. ..snip PITA details > Any ideas? ..not on cups, never had problems with it. ..generally, have a stable back-up system on a separate disk or partition handy BEFORE you mess up experimental stuff like ceres, (AKA unstable, for exactly this reason) so you CAN boot that up and chroot in to clean up your messy experiments, BTDT ;o). ..chrooting in to update your stable back-up system is a nice exercise that will help speed up recovery the next times. ;o) ..I never had to chroot in in my Sid days until pulseaudio and avahi hit me, Debian Sid was not unstable enough to scare anyone until the systemd coup ramifications destroyed Debian as a viable OS source for me. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..will experimental seatd be part of our escape from pötterisms like d-bus and (e)logind?
Hi, ..will experimental seatd be part of our escape from pötterisms like d-bus and (e)logind?: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/experimental/experimental/seatd_0.4.0-1~rc1.html https://git.sr.ht/~kennylevinsen/seatd ..git clone https://git.sr.ht/~kennylevinsen/seatd and have a look. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] no sound on the brasswell acer chromebook. not from headphone or speakers
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 11:58:18 +0100, Didier wrote in message <04cf4224-66d3-5660-4c11-7ef1572af...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 30/11/2020 à 11:14, Steve Litt a écrit : > > In my travels, I've found Pulseaudio to be the land of a thousand > > mutes, most of them very hard to find even with Pavucontrol. Also, > > I've found Pulseaudio to be very stateful: Whether and how it works > > depends on the sequence of programs you've run. I'm still existing > > without it. > > I couldn't describe better what the whole of my experience with > Pulseaudio has been. I also have existed without it for many years, > and I intend to continue (~: > > AFAIK Pulseaudio was designed to solve the non-existing question > of managing sound between hosts across the network. ..how, by making it impossible? Who wouldn't wanna be able to set up music to follow you smartly around your homes, if that's what you want? > Reminds me the non-existing multiseat question. ..multiseating has its uses, e.g. gaming, politics, usenet etc and banking should probably be done on separate user accounts, and it's silly easy to set up a separate user for e.g. your banking needs. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Anybody successfully worked with an Nvidia GeForce gt 710 with Devuan?
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 05:10:29 -0500, Steve wrote in message <20201130051029.510f1...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 19:48:34 +0100 > Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Steve Litt wrote: > > > Has anyone successfully worked with an Nvidia GeForce gt 710 with > > > Devuan? As a bonus, has anyone gotten it to work without > > > Pulseaudio? > > > > did you try nouveau? It is your only long-term hope, the short term > > being using binary drivers. > > Yes. Works fairly well, but intermittently X just terminates. ..doing what, like X freezing and hangs the whole machine? No response to keyboard input, while the mouse can still move, but no button click response? Try a RT kernel, and use it to enforce response deadlines. I also found these RT kernels helps stop youtube video stuttering. > Of > course, this could be a hardware problem, or a problem with who knows > what, but it's a problem I need to fix before appointing this machine > my new Daily Driver Desktop (DDD). Also, when I scroll, distortion > occurs on the screen, ..tearing pictures triangularly across half the screen that you can "fix" by selecting the area around said picture? ..looks like over-committed texture memory to me, I first saw that kinda tearing in FlightGear a decade back when messing around to try hike my framerate. > so I can't read while mousewheel scrolling. I > didn't even know I did this until it the ability was taken away from > me. > > > > > I have a 7300 series card (so still 7 family, but older than yours) > > and no way I can get it to work, NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD all refuse > > to show something. > > Remind me not to get one of them. > > Just in case, 24 hours ago I ordered a Radeon 5450 with 2GB RAM from > Dell. If you guys haven't shopped at Dell, try it. They have *very* > helpful chat people all hours of the day. I got my help at about 4am. > My chat guy made sure I got what I wanted, when I wanted. Don't try > that at Egghead, Walmart, Amazon, BH Photos and the like. Dell's price > was on par with many, and lower than some. > > Thanks! > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times > http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] no sound on the brasswell acer chromebook. not from headphone or speakers
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 23:21:39 +0100 (CET), Chris wrote in message : > only dummy output in pulseaudio ..excellent. :o) Disable it and mark it "Auto" in aptitude so it goes away when we have all the dependencies fixed. > alsamixer shows chtmax98090 and HDA Intel PCH for sound cards. ..in alsamixer, pick the HDA Intel card, then raise the "Master", "Headphone", "PCM" and "Beep" volume bars, and verify they are "OO"pen and not "MM"uted in the bottom window of said bars. ..also set the Auto-Mute Mode to whatever you want, e.g. "Speaker Only" etc, and play e.g. a non-silent youtube video in a web browser while you mess around with the audio. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Anybody successfully worked with an Nvidia GeForce gt 710 with Devuan?
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 07:26:58 -0500, Steve wrote in message <20201129072658.78218...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > Hi all, > > Has anyone successfully worked with an Nvidia GeForce gt 710 with > Devuan? As a bonus, has anyone gotten it to work without Pulseaudio? ..no Nvidia GeForce GT 710 here, but do try the nouveau driver, the 710 is 6 years old and should work right away on the nouveau driver. ..my Dell Precision M4400 has a Quadro FX 770M on the nouveau driver, I run X at 1920x1200 @ 59.97*+: *-display description: VGA compatible controller product: G96GLM [Quadro FX 770M] vendor: NVIDIA Corporation physical id: 0 bus info: pci@:01:00.0 version: a1 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm msi pciexpress vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom configuration: driver=nouveau latency=0 resources: irq:33 memory:f500-f5ff memory:e000-efff memory:f200-f3ff ioport:df00(size=128) memory:c-d ..my first experience with Nividea was buying a 2'hand Radeon HD 4890 that needed a 8 pin power wire, so I had to make do with a GTS 250 that came with the Radeon to fill up the box, the 250 came bang right up, with the nouveau driver, at 2048x1536 AFAIR, and I even had FlightGear going at a flyable 7 to 15 fps clip. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Jessie to Ascii upgrade
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:30:36 +0100, Antony wrote in message <202011162030.36261.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > On Monday 16 November 2020 at 20:02:24, Fred wrote: > > > Uname -a still shows Debian. Why? > > All my Devuan machines (including ones installed as Devuan from the > start) do that. I guess it's for compatibility with scripts etc > which know nothing of Devuan, so that they at least know what type of > system they're running on, even if the init mechanism is different. ..from: uname --help Usage: uname [OPTION]... Print certain system information. With no OPTION, same as -s. -a, --allprint all information, in the following order, except omit -p and -i if unknown: -s, --kernel-nameprint the kernel name -n, --nodename print the network node hostname -r, --kernel-release print the kernel release -v, --kernel-version print the kernel version ... ..e.g.: uname -v #1 SMP Debian 5.8.10-1~bpo10+1 (2020-09-26) arnt@d44:~$ uname -a Linux d44 5.8.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian \ 5.8.10-1~bpo10+1 (2020-09-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Jessie to Ascii upgrade
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 22:29:06 -0300, Gastón wrote in message <20201115012856.2w2ojom7elryj...@devuan.devuan.com.ar>: > On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 02:36:36PM -0700, Fred wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I want to upgrade from Debian Jessie to Devuan. Apparently all I > > need to do is change the sources list and do a dist-upgrade. > > > > Is this likely to go smoothly? If there are any problems I would > > probably not have Internet to ask for help. > > > > How does the upgrade get rid of systemd and everything associated > > with it? Or how does one do that? > > Migrate from Debian Jessie to Beowulf guide: > https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/dev1fanboy/en/jessie-to-beowulf.md ..a wee tweak would be mentioning systemd-free Debian 7 Wheezy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history#Debian_7_(Wheezy) as the "final safe" Debian version to upgrade from into Devuan, and not neccessarily (Devuan) Beowulf. ..there is also that risk of confusion with https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBeowulf which is far less desireable for most people than our Beowulf: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Debian+Beowulf=web ..systemd was introduced as an optional init system in Debian 7 Wheezy, which really makes Debian 6.0 Squeeze the final safe Debian version to upgrade from into Devuan. ..the upgrade guide(s) for these should IMO start with an earlier "dpkg --purge systemd" than adviced in your otherwise excellent https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/dev1fanboy/en/jessie-to-beowulf.md ..breaking systemd is totally fine, once it boots safely with any other init system, the whole point with Devuan is fixing Debian's systemd blunder coup, and that means purging systemd with whatever dpkg --force-* it takes. ..the easiest way might be making 2 more "copy" guides, e.g. "Migrate from Debian Wheezy to Devuan (Beowulf) guide:" and "Migrate from Debian Squeeze and earlier to Devuan (Beowulf) guide:" and publish those once we have these tested ok. ..I sort of tested this way back when I found out Devuan Jessie was here, it took me going from "It's me, I wasted waaay too much time at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw " to "Theodore Ts'o has problems with systemd???" -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] packages held back due to conflict with libsystemd0
On Sun, 8 Nov 2020 06:51:07 -0500, Hendrik wrote in message <20201108115107.bvcwzgsfasqvz...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Sun, Nov 08, 2020 at 05:48:49AM -0300, Eike Lantzsch via Dng wrote: > > Hi Arnt! > > > > On Saturday, 7 November 2020 21:56:38 -03 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Sat, 07 Nov 2020 19:11:45 -0300, Eike wrote in message ... > > > ...with apt* et al. Is why I propose dpkg -P --force-* trains. > > > > > > .."-P" == "--purge", I failed to include that, I thought it was > > > obvious in the context of your thread here, my bad. > > > > > > ..by "just line or pile 'em up", I meant line up --force-* options > > > after "dpkg -P trumpackage" until it does obey your stupid > > > command. (It will still whine, because breaking your box is > > > generally considered stupid if you don't know how to fix it.) > > I presume "trumpackage" is the one you want to get rid of. > Don't use purge on the packages you'll want to reinstall -- you > probably want to retain their onfigurations. ..works best IME when you back those configs up first, then do the mercyless purgatory thing to the trumpage. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] packages held back due to conflict with libsystemd0
On Sat, 07 Nov 2020 19:11:45 -0300, Eike wrote in message <1837090.H3z0i6zCVW@lxcl01>: > Hi Arnt, > > thanks for answering and for the extra recommendations. > > On Saturday, 7 November 2020 18:38:48 -03 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Sat, 07 Nov 2020 16:22:24 -0300, Eike wrote in message > > > > <1632636.6XzDy3geBR@lxcl01>: > > > On Saturday, 7 November 2020 15:52:25 -03 Ludovic Bellière > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Eike, > > > > > > > > Install libelogind0 first, so it takes precedence over systemd, > > > > then > > > > elogind. > > > > > > Thanks - but -> > > > That is impossible because of a catch-22.It is not even possible > > > to deinstall/purge libsystemd0it seems to be there to haunt me. > > > > > > Copy and paste off aptitude introduced some not-so-nice > > > esc-sequences > > > into the text. I hope that it will not mess-up the message too > > > much. > > > > ..2 main ways: use aptitude to pick the version you want. > aptitude isn't good at hen-and-egg-problems ..I find it's pretty good at showing you solutions; break some package, when it whines "Broken package", hit "e" and "." or "," to browse thru to some solution as close as possible to what you want, and mod that to what you want. Rip out stuff you want gone with dpkg --force-* trains. > > ..if aptitude's error handling fails to find a solution, try apt > > and apt-get, they do things differently, and if those fail, we have > > rpm-style nuclear --force purge options to find with dpkg --help > > and dpkg --force-help, just line or pile 'em up. ;o) > > Good grief! > > Yep apt does things differently. > apt: ""You are about to do something potentially harmful." > I typed "Yes, yadda yadda ..." > It deinstalled hundreds of packages, just as I instructed it to do, ...with apt* et al. Is why I propose dpkg -P --force-* trains. .."-P" == "--purge", I failed to include that, I thought it was obvious in the context of your thread here, my bad. ..by "just line or pile 'em up", I meant line up --force-* options after "dpkg -P trumpackage" until it does obey your stupid command. (It will still whine, because breaking your box is generally considered stupid if you don't know how to fix it.) ..once you've ripped out the trumpy stuff, your box is broken, fix it with e.g. aptitude and dpkg --configure -a replacing the missing trumpy bits you threw out, with whatever you want instead. > including apt, aptitude and deselect. Tad! > I had a snapshot and restored it. > Now, there is obviously no way out of this - so be it. > I will do a fresh install of Beowulf because I really have more > important things to do. > > > ..once you've thrown out the trump you want out, refer back to > > Ludovic's advice. ;o) > not biting the hook ... .. ;o) > Cheers to all and also all the best > Eike > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] packages held back due to conflict with libsystemd0
On Sat, 07 Nov 2020 16:22:24 -0300, Eike wrote in message <1632636.6XzDy3geBR@lxcl01>: > On Saturday, 7 November 2020 15:52:25 -03 Ludovic Bellière wrote: > > Hi Eike, > > > > Install libelogind0 first, so it takes precedence over systemd, then > > elogind. > Thanks - but -> > That is impossible because of a catch-22.It is not even possible to > deinstall/purge libsystemd0it seems to be there to haunt me. > > Copy and paste off aptitude introduced some not-so-nice esc-sequences > into the text. I hope that it will not mess-up the message too much. ..2 main ways: use aptitude to pick the version you want. ..if aptitude's error handling fails to find a solution, try apt and apt-get, they do things differently, and if those fail, we have rpm-style nuclear --force purge options to find with dpkg --help and dpkg --force-help, just line or pile 'em up. ;o) ..once you've thrown out the trump you want out, refer back to Ludovic's advice. ;o) > *libsystemd0 (remove, 241-7~deb10u4)* will be removed. The following > packages depend on *libsystemd0 (remove, 241-7~deb10u4)* and will be > broken by its removal: > * * *libaccountsservice0 (held/unchanged, 0.6.45-2) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (>= 209) (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *libapt-pkg5.0 (held/unchanged, 1.8.2.1) *depends on* libsystemd0 > (>= 221) (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *libpulse0 (held/unchanged, 12.2-4+deb10u1) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *network-manager (held/unchanged, 1.14.6-2+deb10u1) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (>= 221) (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *openssh-server (held/unchanged, 1:7.9p1-10+deb10u2) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *pulseaudio (held/unchanged, 12.2-4+deb10u1) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *rsyslog (held/unchanged, 8.1901.0-1+devuan3~beowulf1) *depends > on* libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *samba-libs (held/unchanged, 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *sane-utils (held/unchanged, 1.0.27-3.2) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *sddm (held/unchanged, 0.18.0-1+deb10u1) *depends on* libsystemd0 > (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *vlc-plugin-base (held/unchanged, 3.0.11-0+deb10u1) *depends on* > libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > * * *xserver-xorg-core (held/unchanged, 2:1.20.4-1+deb10u1) *depends > on* libsystemd0 (provided by libelogind0 241.4-2) > > > I have no idea how or why this situation came to be. > > > > On Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:41:47 -0300 > > Eike Lantzsch via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > Hi!Maybe somebody can add some cheese to my whine: > > > For months I am not able to resolve this catch-22 in Beowulf: > > > The following packages have been kept back: > > > Description: user, seat and session management library > > > Homepage: https://github.com/elogind/elogind > > > Multi-Arch: same > > > Priority: optional > > > Section: libs > > > Maintainer: Mark Hindley > > > Architecture: amd64 > > > Compressed Size: 224 k > > > Uncompressed Size: 852 k > > > Source Package: elogind > > > Label: Devuan > > > Origin: Devuan:3.0/stable [amd64] > > > Origin URI: > > > http://deb.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEVUAN/main/e/elogind/ > > > > > > libelogind0_241.4-2_amd64.deb > > > --\ Depends (2) > > > --- libc6 (>= 2.28) > > > --- libcap2 (>= 1:2.10) > > > --\ Conflicts (2) > > > --- libsystemd0 (UNSATISFIED) > > > --- libsystemd0 (UNSATISFIED) > > > --\ Breaks (1) > > > --- libelogind0 (!= 241.4-2) > > > --\ Replaces (3) > > > --- libelogind0 (< 241.4-2) > > > --- libsystemd0 > > > --- libsystemd0 > > > --- Package names provided by libelogind0 (1) > > > --- Packages which depend on libelogind0 (5) > > > --\ Versions of libelogind0 (2) > > > i234.4-2 > > > p241.4-2 > > > > > > I had similar situations with Debian Sid and Testing during mayor > > > changes and upgrades but was always able to resolve the issues by > > > patience and diligently purging and reinstalling packges - but > > > with Devuan Beowulf: NOT - no way. > > > > > > I am about to ditch my Beowulf installation and install from > > > scratch. > Before I do this, has anybody have a hint what I still > > > might do over which solution I didn't happen to stumble or I > > > overlooked? > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..42 min talk on privacy and zooming in on the Digital Maginot Line of the West, no mention of systemd
Hi, ..42 min talk on privacy and zooming in on the Digital Maginot Line of the West, but no mention of systemd. Still fascinating. ;o) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah7hBaRIVTs -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] the email universe
On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 06:12:40 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message : > Greetings > > Found the list of MUA useful. > > The last time I went looking though - - - it seemed to me anyway that > much more than just a MUA is needed for a complete system. > > Would someone be able to outline for the unknowing what all actually > is required? (I am very much wanting to get away from outside product > that is selling me down the road - ie like the alphabet (soup) > company!). ..since you ask the above, I'll read your "a complete system" as MUA-with-local-storage + (Fetchmail||Getmail) + (Procmail||Sieve): On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:55:46 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20200919235546.4551f862@d44>: > ..me, I use Fetchmail as an imap and pop3 client to fetch my email, > and Procmail to sprinkle it down my ~/Mail tree, and Claws Mail to > read it, and to write and to send my outgoing email, directly out > thru my isp's smtp servers. That's all I really need. ..you probably want Sieve rather than Procmail, and possibly Getmail rather than Fetchmail, as Sieve and Getmail(?) are newer and supposedly easier to set up. I've never used those, I simply move my /home over whenever I setup a new laptop, and my .fetchmailrc and .procmailrc still works great. :o) ..I posted message <20200919235546.4551f862@d44> as a wee hint on an email business opportunity (search this list for "[DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?") and to learn more on how "complete MUA-with-local-storage systems" are best set up on Devuan these days. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 10:44:37 -0400, fsmithred wrote in message <91d8f15b-eec8-9a76-0aaa-b987fec03...@gmail.com>: > On 10/23/20 3:04 AM, Simon Walter wrote: > > > From what I understand, I now have to maintain two copies of my key > > rings: the regular one and the one *inside* TB. > > > > Hm.. I was already a little nervous about keeping one copy of the > keyring on the hard drive. > > > > > Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this > > migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about > > TB? Any suggestions of what could replace it? > > Nope. This is the first I've heard of it. This is not the first I've > heard of problems with enigmail. Over the past 5 years or so, it > seems like it only works about half the time. And I mean it goes > months without being available for installation. > > I do still use Thunderbird for my mail, but a few months ago I > installed claws mail on my laptop just so I could send an encrypted > email. It works fine there. I might eventually switch over to using > claws full-time. ..heh, I've used Claws for over 18 years now, ever since it was known as Sylpheed version 0.7.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu), never really looked back, it's email the way email was meant to be. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
not close their account. - Did you know that Wemail would demand money from Get customers when they were chosen as a player? - We were aware that Wemail would eventually charge for the service, but we were clear in our agreement with Wemail that our customers would have a longer period of time to decide whether they wanted to subscribe or not. Telia takes self-criticism Originally, the first payment was to take place on October 5, says Barhom. - But after feedback from customers that the information about payment has not been good enough, Wemail decided to move the deadline for subscribing to 1 December. This gives customers better time to choose what they want. If it is not desirable to subscribe to Wemail, there are a number of free e-mail services you can use, and Wemail is happy to assist customers in moving their account to alternative services. - At the same time, we acknowledge that the communication around payment has not been good enough, and we apologize and take self-criticism, says Barhom. For customers who do not subscribe by December 1, the Getmail address and email archive will be kept alive for 90 days. After that, everything will be deleted. However, there is a solution, at least to keep the archive: Gmail can, for example, import emails directly from Gmail. Wemail has created a separate guide (PDF) for this. ADVERTISEMENT Data Email Telia Company Get -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility
On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:11:10 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20200914061110.gu29...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > He does appear to understand what systemd-homed is capable of doing > > to us if we don't watch out: > > Mr. Smith didn't say hardly anything about Poettering's systemd-homed, > just took a shot in passing. ..aye, his main rant is on the effects of systemd's mission creep, commonly starting with systemd's new shiny "optional" features. > > https://linuxreviews.org/Systemd-homed > > https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/09/21/0110240/systemd-homed-systemd-now-working-to-improve-home-directory-handling > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=systemd-homed > > > > ...and, their comments... > > The systemd release that includes this optional service, v. 246, was > apparently released on July 30th. Distrowatch claims at least one > release of these distros includes that particular (latest) systemd > version: > > Manjaro Linux > Ubuntu > Debian > Fedora > Arch Linux > ArcoLinux > SparkyLinux > Mageia > Devuan GNU+Linux ..looks like we're still waaay too sleepy at the wheel. Imagine losing your /home, or your home. Which is worse? > Bluestar Linux > Gentoo Linux > ALT Linux > Finnix > Garuda Linux > Linux From Scratch > RebornOS > Lunar Linux > > I'm curious how many, if any, of those are going to enable the > systemd-homed service in their default installations. My guess is few > or none, but I lack data. ..the bigger problems are how the ones in the know, acts on the ones they should be protecting: 1. distro packagers on the newbies, and 2. sysadmins on their un-suspecting users, bosses, share holders etc owners. ..me, I want to be in charge of my own web browser logs, email etc data. I want to be able to tell the cops what I saw on 7/7/7 at 7:7pm, once they have convinced me they are chasing actual criminals and not some refugees. E.g. checking my email "for that period in time", will help jog my memory of whatever I may have seen, and not seen. Etc. ..if I ever become a refugee myself, I want to be able to destroy all my data so they don't wind up with some fascist regime trying to criminalize something lawful, e.g. having witnessed something. ..either way, I wanna make that decision myself, and not leave that decision to some systemd fanboi sysadmin or distro packager, or to _anyone_ else. Women have a similar thing with their own bodies, as they damned right should have. > FWIW, my impression (untested) is that sysadmins who don't want this > service on a distro that defaults to using systemd can simply switch > it off. (There is also some PAM plumbing related to it.) ..aye, mission creepy systemd has built itself quite a record on "how optional things can be switched off" and not. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility
On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:51:27 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20200913175126.gp29...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting goli...@devuan.org (goli...@devuan.org): > > > A link to this rant was posted on FDN yesterday. I had never heard > > of Luke Smith before and was not particularly impressed with either > > his presentational style or his bemoaning the death of white, male > > privilege but . . . I could very well imagine Linux going down the > > path his "nightmare" imagines. > > > > https://libre.video/videos/watch/b576019d-8957-4efb-8571-6a14e0889136 > > Some people are not destined to be on-camera presenters, and should > content themselves with blogging and essays (which among other things > don't require watching some distraught, wild-eyed dweeb rant for eight > freakin' minutes), > > I don't think Mr. Smith is very clear on what a kernel is. ..he does appear to understand what systemd-homed is capable of doing to us if we don't watch out: https://linuxreviews.org/Systemd-homed https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/09/21/0110240/systemd-homed-systemd-now-working-to-improve-home-directory-handling https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=systemd-homed ...and, their comments... -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] VMware segmentation fault
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:37:44 +, Rowland wrote in message : > > I should also point out that Windows 7 and 8 are both EOL. ..still worth running in vm's to figure, test etc out how to help your new etc clients escape those moribound OS'es. ;o) ..and I have a vague memory of a Microsoft Windows NT version with a 120 day life span meant for Microsoft Windows NT re-installation training 25 or so years back, did they make more such short life versions? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] elogind and libelogind0
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 14:16:06 +, Mark wrote in message <20200106141606.gs27...@hindley.org.uk>: > On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 09:10:44AM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 01:53:09PM +, Mark Hindley wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 08:39:45AM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > Just wondering -- did it refuse to boot or be otherwise > > > > seriously unusable until you had installed elogind and > > > > libelogind0? Were your text-only consoles affected? Or did it > > > > just interfere with desktops? > > > > > > > > And just curious -- never heard of these before systemd. What > > > > do they do? > > > > > > >From https://github.com/elogind/elogind/: > > > > > > 'The systemd project's "logind", extracted to a standalone > > > package' > > > > > > It keeps a record of logins, seats and sessions and maps pids to > > > those so that desktoppy things like being able to reboot from the > > > desktop work without having to become root. > > > > I see. So in effect it provides a privilege check on rebooting. > > Indirectly. policykit-1 does the checking, but asks elogind or > consolekit if the requesting pid is part of the session that it > claims. ..chking elogind history, I found https://git.devuan.org/amesser/elogind is 404, what happened, and who is in control of https://github.com/elogind/elogind/ ? ..which should we use, elogind or consolekit? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf?, was: We need upgrade reports
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 03:52:28 +0100, Arnt wrote in message <20200101035228.284bce12@sda3>: > ..testing an ascii 2.1 box: > Retrieving bug reports... Done > Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done > grave bugs of firefox-esr (68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2 → 68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1) > b1 - #944706 - firefox-esr: Tab crashes immediately after > start up and Firefox ESR was unusable. Summary: > firefox-esr(1 bug) > Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? > [Y/n/?/...] > ..hitting [<-'] returns: apt-listchanges: Changelogs --- firefox-esr (68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1) stretch-security; urgency=medium * New upstream release. * Fixes for mfsa2019-37, also known as: CVE-2019-17008, CVE-2019-11745, CVE-2019-17010, CVE-2019-17005, CVE-2019-17011, CVE-2019-17012. * debian/control.in: Bump nss build dependencies. * intl/icu_sources_data.py: - Revert change from 68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2. - Don't build ICU in parallel. * gfx/skia/skia/third_party/skcms/src/Transform_inl.h: Work around GCC ICEs on arm. (Thanks Emilio Pozuelo Monfort) -- Mike Hommey Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:58:01 +0900 Reading changelogs... Done apt-listchanges: Mailing root: apt-listchanges: changelogs for sda3 apt-listdifferences: fetching source packages Get:1 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1.dsc [43.4 kB] Get:2 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr.orig-l10n-ach.tar.bz2 [264 kB] ... Get:93 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr.orig-l10n-zh-TW.tar.bz2 [1018 kB] Get:94 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr.orig.tar.xz [349 MB] Get:95 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1.debian.tar.xz [176 kB] Fetched 421 MB in 6s (809 kB/s) ..not posting the diff: diff \ -Nru /mnt/tmp/ZEStcyJ4UU/firefox-esr-68.2.0esr \ /mnt/tmp/UmCsVdoA5s/firefox-esr-68.3.0esr \ >/tmp/firefox-esr-68.2-3.0esr.diff -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2848094 Jan 1 04:25 /tmp/firefox-esr-68.2-3.0esr.diff ..I just tested firefox-esr-68.2-3.0esr, which works ok both from the launch menu and from the cli. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf?, was: We need upgrade reports
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 14:58:10 -0500, fsmithred wrote in message : > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production > system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, > not the real thing. > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and > those went smoothly. We need more data points. ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=944706 is weird, 2 or 3 bugs ..#944706 also reports a "/und" typo in Debian's firefox-esr help message url: ... https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/und/firefox/68.2.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser ...but these 3 are found ok if you care to look newbie Groklaw-style: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/68.2.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/68.3.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/68.4.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser ..and the headliner bug crash only happens when you launch it from the launch menu, and not from the cli, which is suggested as a work-around. ..testing an ascii 2.1 box: Retrieving bug reports... Done Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done grave bugs of firefox-esr (68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2 → 68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1) b1 - #944706 - firefox-esr: Tab crashes immediately after start up and Firefox ESR was unusable. Summary: firefox-esr(1 bug) Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 16:01:11 -0500, fsmithred wrote in message <56853e51-735a-8e18-1f44-f6ae3fb6c...@gmail.com>: > On 12/31/19 3:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Hi, > > > > On 1/1/20 6:53 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > >> On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > >>>> On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> So how long before we can expect to get stable release > >>>>> of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're > >>>> working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be > >>>> pretty smooth. > >>> > >>> Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get > >>> update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now? > >>> > >>> For production systems or any systems? > >>> > >>> Thanks A. > >> > >> For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system > >> first, only because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also, > >> there might still be some issues on upgrading lvm. > > > > I use lvm, a lot, what are the problems with lvm? > > > >> I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a > >> mate desktop. They've all been uneventful. > > > > Thanks > > A. > > CenturionDan posted this in irc a few days ago: > " with the 4.19 kernel LVM requires udev to be running and /run/udev > to exist in order for root on LV and other initramfs mounted volumes > to be mounted.." ..is this a systemd-ism directed against LVM users? > I ran into this issue on some fresh installs earlier this year and > had to create and mount /run/udev in a chroot to get grub to install. > > fsr -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 13:16:19 +, Mark wrote in message <5e0755a3.80...@signal100.com>: > That said, the mail list *does* seem to work as Steve wants. ..you almost nailed it with the above observation, I'd go "the mail list does *seem* to work as Steve wants", which is how and why Steve got fooled into doing what he did. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:10:56 +0100, Dr. wrote in message <201912141010.56327.dr.kl...@gmx.at>: > Anno domini 2019 Fri, 13 Dec 23:49:42 -0600 > goli...@devuan.org scripsit: > > On 2019-12-13 23:31, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > > > > > I'm really disgusted the way that Debian is going. What happened > > > to the > > > "universal Linux" > > > > > > Cheers > > > A. > > > > > > > And what happened to the priorities of the "Debian Social > > Contract"? Here is a pertinent excerpt: > > > > "Our priorities are our users and free software > > > > We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software > > community. We will place their interests first in our priorities. > > We will support the needs of our users for operation in many > > different kinds of computing environments." > > > > https://www.debian.org/social_contract > > > > Makes what's going on all the more laughable. > > It's just politics. Or religion. ...juuust like the 1930-ies. Hitler's purpose: gas the Jews and take "Aryan" Lebensraum from Mankind. 9/11's purpose: cover up Enron by destroying all Enron evidence in SEC's WTC7 office, blame it on "Islamists" and drone strike them. Systemd's purpose: take down Debian by to save Red Hat's biz. Trump's purpose: take down the US to save his own old Soviet agent ass. GOP's purpose: help Trump take down the US to save their own Putinist "lobbyist" butts. > The problem is: where do you run, > when there's no place to hide (in linux world)? ..we drop Debian as the un-viable upstream it has become, and move on with Slackware and Gentoo etc and the *BSD unices. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] fifth freedom
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:45:01 -0500, Steve wrote in message <20191212194501.08756...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:29:21 +0100 (CET) > freemedia via Dng wrote: > > > The freedom to NOT run the software, to be free to avoid vendor > > lock-in through appropriate modularization/encapsulation and > > minimized dependencies; meaning any free software can be replaced > > with a user’s preferred alternatives (freedom 4). > > This is an excellent idea. The devil is in the details. > > How much entanglement, and with what, renders a software unremoveable? > > KDE is just as much of a black box of monolithic entanglement as > systemd, but getting rid of it is a simple matter of weening oneself > off its applications, and removing all its libraries and programs. > > Systemd would have been the same were it not for Redhat's extreme > expenditures on both lobbying and maintaining a crew of six to keep it > somewhat usable. Actually, systemd would be nothing but a geek > experimentation thing, something like hurd, if it weren't for Redhat > bucks. > > How does one specify by license how much should be spent on lobbying, > how much lobbying should go on, and how much corporate money should be > spent on development? What would that fifth clause look like? > > We all know, as a practical matter, that few living humans can > compile, configure and install systemd. Few living humans can modify > it in any meaningful way. And the fact that it's so useless > de-incentivises even geniuses from modifying it. So as a practical > matter, it isn't free software, but how the heck do you put that into > words when anybody can download its source? ..call it what it is, subversive software. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] fifth freedom
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 01:29:27 +1000, onefang wrote in message <20191211152927.7dnv67o7b554jf5f@true>: > On 2019-12-11 05:29:21, freemedia via Dng wrote: > > free software force and golinux have expressed interest in a > > revised version of the four freedoms, which i was initially very > > shy about the idea of. for some time ive proposed as an alternative > > a list of companion qualities or "pillars" which i havent > > completely abandoned yet. > > > > still, while seeking what these pillars would be, someone stepped > > up with a really ideal fifth freedom, which im now taking on a tour > > of sorts, consider this a request for comments: > > > > The freedom to NOT run the software, to be free to avoid vendor > > lock-in through appropriate modularization/encapsulation and > > minimized dependencies; meaning any free software can be replaced > > with a user’s preferred alternatives (freedom 4). > > > > for comparison, the existing four freedoms are: > > > > The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose > > (freedom 0). The freedom to study how the program works, and change > > it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the > > source code is a precondition for this. The freedom to redistribute > > copies so you can help others (freedom 2). The freedom to > > distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). > > By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit > > from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for > > this. > > I had recently added what I call freedom -1 to the licence of > apt-panopticon. 'the author specifically grants themselves the > freedom to not be infected by the viral licence clauses of any code > this source code "links" to. It's my code, I choose my licence > terms, no one else does.' ..the freedom from having your power grid utility force a new power meter with pirated software on it, on you? ..I requested said software license(s) documents and any GPL etc source where relevant to secure my own GPL compliance, and now the power grid utility refuses to document their alleged lawful "not-pirated" software in their old and new power meters, and they refuse to swap out my power meter, aaand, in so doing, they deny me my lawful right to sell my 24kW of power onto the free EEA/EU power market. Court proceding due next week, Wed Dec 18 11:30:00 CET 2019. > Yes there is a GPL bit included, yes I do distribute that bit with my > modifications in source code form in the same places I distribute > apt-panopticon. I also point out in the README of that bit, where to > get the original, and where to get my modified forms. No > apt-panopticon isn't gonna be GPL, just coz someone else thought that > I should not have the freedom to choose my own licence. > > I even mention the alteratives that I know of in the docs, so that's > your fifth freedom catered for. I carefully chose the dependencies > to be stuff and versions that are available in the standard Devuan > ASCII package repo. Except for the modified GPL bit of code, that > isn't in Devuan ASCII. > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] raspberry pi build - missing lines in /proc/cpuinfo
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:32:29 +, s@po wrote in message <20191210223229.13b34daeb0ce03b64f74d...@sapo.pt>: > Even tough that the Userspace is Armel, the Kernel is armhf.. ...which was raspberrypi.org's big messy goof, calling their debian armel architecture fork "armhf", rather than calling their first product e.g. "raspberrypi" or some such original name for their first original armel_6_+7ish_hard_float arch. ..maybe the old trick still works?: https://github.com/laher/goxc/issues/18 http://www.linuxsystems.it/raspbian-wheezy-armhf-raspberry-pi-minimal-image/comment-page-1/#comments https://blogs.oracle.com/jtc/is-it-armhf-or-armel -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Hidden "Chrome Web Store Payments" menu entry...
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 22:27:40 +0900, Simon wrote in message <21ba29b7-b3b8-8266-613e-7935f0d8c...@gikaku.com>: > On 12/9/19 8:56 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:24:05 +0900, Simon wrote in message > > <6d01ab17-3ab2-bc52-cbb2-f838087fe...@gikaku.com>: > >> I suppose this is from upstream. Does anyone about this? I thought > >> maybe other privacy conscious users would like to know. It seems > >> like the exact thing that the Chromium package maintainer would > >> remove or document. > > > > ..aye, file a bug so he and we all knows. > > If I send it to sub...@bugs.devuan.org (reportbug), do you know if it > will be automatically pushed to upstream (Debian)? ..IME, no, file there too. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Hidden "Chrome Web Store Payments" menu entry...
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:24:05 +0900, Simon wrote in message <6d01ab17-3ab2-bc52-cbb2-f838087fe...@gikaku.com>: > ...in at least KDE in Jessie. > > /usr/lib/chromium/chromium "--profile-directory=Profile 1" > --app-id=XXX > > I use Chromium for development testing. > # dpkg --get-selections | grep chromium > chromiuminstall > > I have never installed Chrome. > > I suppose this is from upstream. Does anyone about this? I thought > maybe other privacy conscious users would like to know. It seems like > the exact thing that the Chromium package maintainer would remove or > document. ..aye, file a bug so he and we all knows. > Best regards, > > Simon > > PS > I removed the screenshot as I think it may not be allowed on DNG. ..that warrants that relevant link in the bug you'll file. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to change the action of the computer's power button?
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 16:32:59 +0100, Stephane wrote in message : > Le 02/12/2019 à 16:03, Mark Hindley a écrit : > > Did you mean no you don't have elogind installed? > > It's in status "p" in Dpkg > > > > If so, what are you using? pm-utils? > > Apparently yes > For example, "pm-suspend" works ..my favorite is "pm-suspend-hybrid", works "right out of the box" both with vdev and eudev IME without any configuration on my part. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
