Re: [DNG] [devuan-dev] Of confidence and support and the future of Devuan.

[etech3]

On 04/22/2019 10:24 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

Dan, it is _not_ time for you to leave.  Please stay.

I've seen only the public portions of these text-format interactions,
but think I'm seen enough data to assess the basic situation.  Although
I'm a friendly outsider to Devuan Project governance, I've seen many
similar destructive spirals in open source projects over many decades:
It starts with well-intended individual actions taken without adequate
consultation, which cause reactions from other parties who feel taken by
surprise.  When those reactions are in e-mail, or (slightly worse) in
e-mail with a large audience such as on mailing lists, then a
communication anti-pattern tends to take hold that drives the parties
into confrontation, frustration, and perception of harm that could have
been resolved if the parties had switched to more-interactive,
more-personal, and less public means of communication -- such as voice
telephone or Internet video conferencing.

As to Denis/Jaromil's comments about the ci.devuan.org failure, yes, he
spoke sharply to you about some of your initial steps, but, if you
review what he said, the main points were that (1) better consultation
should have occurred throughout and (2) he asked you to wait before
taking additional action.  IMO, if you set aside for a moment the tinge
of personal accusation you're perceiving in what he wrote, you will see
that those are reasonable comments from a project-management
perspective.

Back when I was manager of a department of system administrators, I
told my employees that I'd shield them from problems visited onto our
department from other parts of the firm and help their professional
development, and in return I asked and expected two things:  (1)
Do their assigned share of our work, but equally important, (2) make
sure I was never blindsided about anything they did, i.e., if there
was bad news in which they were involved,  I expected to hear it from
them first and immediately, not later or from anyone else.

Devuan Project of course differs in being less-hierarchical not to
mention volunteer, but good and timely communication is every bit as
important if not more so, and the antipatterns I've seen lately appear
to _all_ involve failure to do timely consultation, and then reliance on
known-problematic _asynchronous_ communication methods such as e-mail /
mailing lists that are inadequate to the situation and tend to worsen
interpersonal conflict, avoidably.

Devuan has suffered enough loss, and I wish everyone would please
de-escalate and to understand that e-mail is not the right solution for
all communication needs, especially where there is risk of
contentiousness and hard feelings.

And you belong here, and would be greatly missed.



+1
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Re: [DNG] Fwd: April's fools mess

[etech3]

I have complete trust in the complete Devuan team. Having been around 
since the start, I know and have emailed/irc most if not all since the 
beginning.


The clues were there from the start. If this is the worst that ever 
happens to you, consider yourself lucky. After forty years in 
telecommunications, I did not blink. Coming from a navy family that was 
stationed on aircraft carriers, you had better learn to keep a cool clam 
head under stress (remember Neil Armstrong?).


My advice to you is like the Marines motto: Lead, follow or get the hell 
out of the way.


That's all I got to say about that and I know that's more than 2cents

Ciao

On 04/01/2019 03:15 PM, Mike Bird wrote:

On Mon April 1 2019 11:51:46 Antony Stone wrote:

So, you did not believe one of the primary project contributors when he
admits to having created the hoax?

He has proven himself unworthy of trust.

The only question is whether the other four choose to fix the
problem in a sufficiently transparent manner as to restore
trust in their own work.

--Mike
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Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

[etech3]

On 11/29/2018 01:44 AM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

On 2018-11-29 00:22, Steve Litt wrote:


My understanding is that Devuan will ask in the fresh installer whether
the user wants to merge or not, with the default being no merge. This
is fine with me.



I installed a test beowulf mini.iso a few days ago and there was 
indeed an option to merge.  The default is to keep them separate.


golinux


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I can confirm this in the the 32 bit beowulf mini iso version also.

Just throwing in my 2cents...
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Re: [DNG] no-usr-merged: let's get concrete

[etech3]

On 11/19/2018 06:17 AM, KatolaZ wrote:

Hi All,

in the last few days we have seen many people going at lengths with
the pros and cons of a non-merged usr. That has been a great
discussion. We have put together a solution that consists into
choosing if you want merged-usr at install time. It's available in the
current unstable installer:

   
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

It would be great for the vocal support against usr-merge to become a
concrete piece of help to maintaining choice in Devuan. So if you
care, please install beowulf/ceres using the mini.iso above and help
testing all the possible scenarios of non-merged /usr, to discover any
potential issue/breakage there.

Note: the mini.iso is a barebone netinst, and tasksel does not
currently work (I am on that). The "Package selection" step will
fail. Just skip it, continue with the installation, and then install
stuff with apt-get after reboot.

Please report bugs on https://bugs.devuan.org. We are currently
upgrading many packages in unstable, including reportbug, so either
use the reportbug version from ascii or just use reportbug to prepare
the report and then send the email it creates to
submit[at]bugs.devuan.org

Your help is very welcome.

HND

KatolaZ



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On 11/19/2018 06:17 AM, KatolaZ wrote:

Hi All,

in the last few days we have seen many people going at lengths with
the pros and cons of a non-merged usr. That has been a great
discussion. We have put together a solution that consists into
choosing if you want merged-usr at install time. It's available in the
current unstable installer:

   
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

It would be great for the vocal support against usr-merge to become a
concrete piece of help to maintaining choice in Devuan. So if you
care, please install beowulf/ceres using the mini.iso above and help
testing all the possible scenarios of non-merged /usr, to discover any
potential issue/breakage there.

Note: the mini.iso is a barebone netinst, and tasksel does not
currently work (I am on that). The "Package selection" step will
fail. Just skip it, continue with the installation, and then install
stuff with apt-get after reboot.

Please report bugs on https://bugs.devuan.org. We are currently
upgrading many packages in unstable, including reportbug, so either
use the reportbug version from ascii or just use reportbug to prepare
the report and then send the email it creates to
submit[at]bugs.devuan.org

Your help is very welcome.

HND

KatolaZ



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KatolaZ

I know you said to test:
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
This go for:
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

My old reliable just finished up a test that it was doing. I saw that 
the one you linked to was 64 bit. Until this 32 bit goes to it's final 
resting place, I still use it. FYI Aopen server cir 2002/3. I had more, 
this is the last one. Another died about a month ago and have not had 
time to find the replacement power supply. I call it, the bunny. It 
keeps going and going and going... :D
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Re: [DNG] English grammar.

[etech3]

On 11/18/2018 11:11 AM, Rowland Penny wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 10:11:50 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:


Changed the subject to a more appropriate one.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 01:52:01PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:

On 18/11/18 at 13:36, Rowland Penny wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 13:24:51 +0100
Alessandro Selli  wrote:


On 18/11/18 at 10:46, Martin Steigerwald wrote:


The most important aspect here is: "has been". Its in the past
already and it does not determine the future.

   Maybe not.  If my English Grammar is still worth the schoolbook
paper it was printed on, "has been" is the Present Continuous
Tense, that is used "to express the idea that something is
happening now, at this very moment. It can also be used to show
that something is not happening now."

   So, the main use is for "something is happening now",
sometimes for "something [that] is not happening now."


Nope, your schoolbook paper wasn't worth the paper it was written
on ;-)


   All right, I checked it and indeed I remembered wrong.  The
Present Continuous Tense if formed by the Present Tense of "be"
followed by a Present Participle.  In this case we have the Present
Tense of "have" ("has") followed by the Present Participle of
"be" ("been").  Which means that KatolaZ used the Present Perfect
tense, which is used to express "an action happened at an
unspecified time before now."

What we have here is the passive perfect tense


This is not gonna happen, given for instance the way our presence
in debian-devel has been "cheered up" (with aggressive posts and
personal

The most important aspect here is: "has been". Its in the past
already and it does not determine the
future.

'has been' is a perfect tense for 'to be'.  Combined with the *past*
participle of "cheered", it makes a passive verb.


No it isn't, 'has been' means in the past 'to be' means in the the
future, as in 'has been seen' and 'to be seen'.

But what do I know, I have only been speaking English for the last 62
years, ever since I moved on from 'goo-goo-gaga' baby talk ;-)

Rowland



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Rowland Tell em, "Here's you sign > :D)
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Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question??

[etech3]

On 11/17/2018 08:43 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 18:53:59 -0500, etech3 wrote in message
<5bf0aa17.9030...@e-tech-systems.com>:


On 11/17/2018 06:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:32:59 +0100, Martin wrote in message
<44080848.gBCAc932W8@merkaba>:
  

Martin Steigerwald - 16.11.18, 16:04:

In any case: Regarding a decision I'd take the amount of effort
into account which would be needed to divert from Debian's
default. As long as Debian still supports the usr split, I bet
that effort would be minimal, but as soon as packages appear that
just stuff anything in '/usr', then diverting becomes more and
more pointless or Devuan would need to carry packages with
different directory layout.

Some Debian developers who are involved with packaging Systemd and
related stuff already started to move things to /usr that were in
directories under / before:

Please move libkmod to /usr/lib
https://bugs.debian.org/894566

..to clarify, "Please move libkmod to /usr/lib" is the title of
https://bugs.debian.org/894566 and is what the systemd people
wanna do to Debian, and what we should not wanna do to Devuan.
  

You did see the date on that first message right?
Subject: Please move libkmod to /usr/lib
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:10:28 +0200
Borg is, Borg does. The problem is not the Borg collective but the
borg collectives, one trying to assimilate the other. Anything the
helps FD, systemd, I say no. Keep moving forward.

That's all I have to say about that.

..as April 1'st jokes go, this one is fairly elaborate, check out
Message #10 and below, maybe they have some flying-under-the-radar
fun coming on Monday April 1'st 2019?  ;o)


OK, one more thing about that...
yea I saw #10. I don't we have to wait for 2019.

Regards,
Michael

--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

ANSWER: because of systemd, FD...

I have to laugh because, about 6 weeks ago started seeing some creep 
when doing a test upgrade from Devuan Jessie to Ascii. trying to prepare 
for a new test install of asterisk and stuff. I had finally got 
mondoresue to work in Devaun Jessie with a bunch of changes. After 
upgrading to Ascii, on rebooot system went into initramfs command line. 
Mondo worked fine in Devuan Jessie after upgrading kernel to ascii 4.9. 
restore went fine until after full dist-upgrade to ascii, system went BORK.



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Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question??

[etech3]

On 11/17/2018 06:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:32:59 +0100, Martin wrote in message
<44080848.gBCAc932W8@merkaba>:


Martin Steigerwald - 16.11.18, 16:04:

In any case: Regarding a decision I'd take the amount of effort into
account which would be needed to divert from Debian's default. As
long as Debian still supports the usr split, I bet that effort
would be minimal, but as soon as packages appear that just stuff
anything in '/usr', then diverting becomes more and more pointless
or Devuan would need to carry packages with different directory
layout.

Some Debian developers who are involved with packaging Systemd and
related stuff already started to move things to /usr that were in
directories under / before:

Please move libkmod to /usr/lib
https://bugs.debian.org/894566

..to clarify, "Please move libkmod to /usr/lib" is the title of
https://bugs.debian.org/894566 and is what the systemd people
wanna do to Debian, and what we should not wanna do to Devuan.


You did see the date on that first message right?
Subject: Please move libkmod to /usr/lib
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:10:28 +0200
Borg is, Borg does. The problem is not the Borg collective but the borg 
collectives, one trying to assimilate the other. Anything the helps FD, 
systemd, I say no. Keep moving forward.


That's all I have to say about that.
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Re: [DNG] ASCII Sprint: apulse and surf2 in ascii -- please test

[etech3]

On 12/18/2017 12:47 PM, KatolaZ wrote:

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 06:34:01PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 16/12/2017 à 11:45, KatolaZ a écrit :

the Devuan ASCII sprint will continue through the week-end. Just to
let you know that apulse (pulseaudio->alsa compat layer) and surf2
(the suckless browser) are now in ASCII. Feel free to give them a try
and report any issue.

 apluse is installed in its own place in the hierarchy. It is not
installed as a replacement for pulseaudio - otherwies it should conflict
with it.

 Therefore its use is limited to software which is compiled locally, and
I think it cannot act as a compatibility layer for ready-made packages like
Skypeforlinux. Skypeforlinux has no sound when pulseaudio isn't install,
even when apulse is.

 However I'm not sure Skypeforlinux is still usefull since it seems to
have exactly the same UI as Skypeweb.


Hi Didier,

I have no pulseaudio running and skypeforlinux still works (yes, I
need to use it, unfortunately). I don't understand what you mean
"installed in its own place in the hierarchy". apulse is not a
replacement to pulseaudio, just a wrapper to foul apps around to
believe that pulseaudio is running. I don't think we can really
replace deps to pulseaudio with deps to apulse, tbh.

My2Cents

KatolaZ


KatolaZ :
What about Twinkle instead of skypeforlinux?
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[DNG] mondoarchive

[etech3]

Doing a test on Devuan Jessie installing mondoarchive. Anybody got any 
tips or suggestions? This is on a real box not VPS.


Is star package the same as staruml? Where to install start?

Thanks
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Re: [DNG] devuan.org inaccessible two days

[etech3]

Working fine for me. I suggest maybe doing a trace route

On 05/19/2017 11:25 AM, KatolaZ wrote:

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:00:13AM -0500, Thaddeus Nielsen wrote:

For the second consecutive day my end of the internet cannot find devuan.org
Did I miss an announcement?
RPTN

Hi Thaddeus,

this is very strange, the website is up and running, its certificates
are all right, and it has been working fine. Couldit be possible that
there is some configuration problem on your side perhaps? Has anybody
else experiences problems in reaching www.devuan.org?

HND

KatolaZ



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Re: [DNG] Devuan on Raspberry Pi

[etech3]

On 02/05/2017 11:51 AM, J. Fahrner wrote:
[snip]

has someone had success in installing Devuan on Raspberry Pi?
Havn't gotten around to Pi yet, But did have a Acer laptop with no 
cd/dvd. I installed from a external usb cd/dvd, and I copyies the beta2 
iso to usb and installed that way.


justmy2cents
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Re: [DNG] Systemdconf

[etech3]

On 10/18/2016 01:22 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 12:54:43 -0400
Dan Purgert  wrote:


On 10/18/2016 07:03 AM, Aldemir Akpinar wrote:

[...]

Anyways as you've said we're obsolete grey beards :)

Greybeard? Maybe (I dunno, never met you ;) ).  Obsolete? Hardly.

How else are people gonna learn, if not from the old-timers, because
seriously, if pottering et. al. are supposed to be the teachers, we
might as well all go back to Win...

No Dan, you miss the point!

Veterans should never be listened to, because doing so impedes
progress. How can you ever improve if you do it the same way as people
with 20 years experience?

How much more progressive it is to follow people who have only done it
for a couple years. Think of the avenues you'll explore getting their
code to work. Think of the clever workarounds you'll be making, in
order to fix problems baked in by five generations of yearlings. Think
of the user interface possibilities when you throw away all knowledge
and make something brand new.

Don't trust anyone over thirty!
  
SteveT



I myself amd a whitebeard, systemd=borg with a non functioning warp 
drive (take on flat tire.


“We're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be 
alive. It's pretty dense kids who haven't figured that out by the time 
they're ten Most kids can't afford to go to Harvard and be misinformed.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Bluebeard
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Re: [DNG] Devuan migrate and install

[etech3]

Here's what I have so far:

most from the 64 bit install. added non-free and contrib so far so good

# deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main

deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main non-free contrib
deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main non-free contrib

# jessie-security, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security main contrib 
non-free


# jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates main contrib 
non-free


# jessie-backports, previously on backports.debian.org
deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports main 
contrib non-free



On 06/14/2016 03:27 PM, richard lucassen wrote:

1) IIRC there used to be a "sources.list" somewhere to migrate from
Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie. Does someone have a URL?

2) I run a PXE server. For Debian I can download an "initrd.gz" and a
"vmlinuz" to start a net install. Each version has its own
vmlinuz/initrd.gz. The repository I use is an apt-cacher-ng proxy, this
works like a charm. Has this been realized for Devuan yet? And if yes,
does someone have a URL pointing to these two files?

R.



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[Dng] Devuan News, volume 02, issue XXV

[etech3]

# Devuan News Issue XXV

__Volume 02, Week 20, Devuan Week 25__

Released Tuesday, 12015/05/19 [HE](why-he)

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-02/issue-025

## Editorial

As Spring gets closer to summer and the heat starts to rise (northern 
hemisphere centric), so does the work at Devuan. There is tons going on 
behind the scenes with many people working on pre-alpha builds.


A couple of shout outs to golinux, hope your back is better, we miss you 
and to Centurion_Dan on the birth of his son, congrats!


A big thank you goes to the volunteers working on the Devuan News. *You* 
make this possible.


@etech3

## Lately in Devuan

### [vdev status update][3]

Jude Nelson posted his latest update for vdev

Thanks to all who followed [Jude's instruction to provide testing
information for vdev development][3a].  Keep'em coming!

### [stonix, a security tool][5]
Roy Nielsen posted that  a beta release of stonix, a security tool to 
give non-windows operating systems a base level of security based on 
government guideline and industry best

practices.

https://github.com/CSD-Public/stonix

### [eudev status][6]
jaret posted on A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development that he 
had pushed eudev to the git (https://git.devuan.org/jaretcantu/eudev).


I used eudev version 1.9 since it is based on systemd 215. That is the 
udev/systemd version used by Jessie, so it just seemed to make a lot 
more sense.



### [How to bust into a broken Qemu VM][7]
Steve started How to bust into a broken Qemu VM.
This isn't precisely about Devuan, but given the number of us testing
Devuan in Qemu VMs, it would probably be very handy information.

When you accidentally bork a Qemu VM such that it won't boot to a
virtual terminal, how do you bust back in. I doubt System Rescue CD
would help, unless you can boot from the cdrom but somehow also
access the existing hard disk borked VM image.

So how do you bust back into a borked VM?

NOTE: Steve marked this solved!

### [Document on using Qemu for Linux DIY][8]
Steve Litt posted Document on using Qemu for Linux DIY

Hi all,

I just finished a very basic document on using Qemu for Linux DIY, 
which I tech-edited using Valentines Devuan:


http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/diy/qemu.htm

It's based on three shellscripts, and also contains instructions for 
sharing host and guest /tmp/xfer directory via sshfs. As you know, Qemu 
currently has no copy and paste between host and  guest, so a shared 
directory's a great way to transfer copied text or screenshots.


The shellscripts in this doc, perhaps modified by you, might be a 
timesaver for some of you who are repeatedly testing Devuan.


Hope you like it.


## Devuan's Not Gnome

DNG is the discussion list of the Devuan Project.

- [Subscribe to the list][subscribe]
- [Subscribe to the feed][atom-feed]
- [Read online archives][archives]

---
Read you soon!

Devuan News is made by your peers: you're [welcome to contribute][wiki]!

+ Created by Noel @Envite Torres
+ @hellekin (editor at large)
+ @golinux (word wrangler)
+ @lightbringer (AKA. MinceR, sentence fixaupper)
+ @DocScrutinizer05 (proofreader)
+ @etech3 (markdown master in training MMIT)

--- Links to follow ---

[3]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150514.032442.4939d09c.en.html 
vdev status update


[3a]: 
https://git.devuan.org/pkgs-utopia-substitution/vdev/blob/master/how-to-test.md 
How to test vdev


[5]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150513.163344.525255d9.en.html 
stonix, a security tool


[6]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150517.032838.0d000655.en.html 
eudev status


[7]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150515.233757.4fd30ed5.en.html 
How to bust into a broken Qemu VM


[8]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150514.231814.446caf18.en.html 
Document on using Qemu for Linux DIY


[pre-alpha]: 
http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso


[vagrant]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150307.011135.a710525c.en.html


[subscribe]: https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng 
Subscribe to DNG mailing list


[atom-feed]: http://lists.devuan.org/dwn/atom.xml Subscribe to ATOM feed

[archives]: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/list/dng.en.html Read DNG 
List Archive


[Financial report]: 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150503.224708.236843dd.en.html 
Financial report, 1st trimester 2015


[upcoming]: 
https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/upcoming-issue 
Upcoming Issue


[wiki]: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/home 
Devuan News


[why-he]: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/why-he
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Re: [Dng] Devuan Weekly News XVII - Where no toy has gone before

[etech3]

Thanks Isaac for the correction.




On 03/31/2015 12:59 PM, Isaac Dunham wrote:

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 09:15:23AM -0400, etech3 wrote:

# Devuan Weekly News Issue XVII

__Volume 02, Week 12, Devuan Week 17__
### [Puppy Linux-related thoughts...][4]

Isaac Dunham started a post that there may be some guidelines from Puppy
Linux for building a small, lightweight, fast, and relatively easy to use
system, even for total Linux newbies. Includes a link to distrowatch.com on
an antiX Jessie beta without systemd.

Apollia had a related post about Gobo Linux, Puppy [Linux.][5]

Correction:
Apollia was the first one to mention Puppy Linux; I replied to Apollia's
email.

Thanks,
Isaac Dunham
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[Dng] Devuan Weekly News XVII - Where no toy has gone before

[etech3]

# Devuan Weekly News Issue XVII

__Volume 02, Week 12, Devuan Week 17__

Released 03/31/12015 [HE](why-he)

https://git.devuan.org/Envite/devuan-weekly-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-02/issue-017

## Editorial

### Where no toy has gone before...

We mourn the passing of actor Leonard Nimoy, most famous for his role as 
Star Trek's Vulcan science officer Mr. Spock. The sci-fi classic served 
as an inspiration for many at [NASA][1].


Leonard Nimoy was an inspiration to multiple generations of engineers, 
scientists, astronauts, and other space explorers. As Mr. Spock, he made 
science and technology important to the story, while never failing to 
show, by example, that it is the people around us who matter most.


Thanks goes out to everyone who helps on the DWN

etech3

## Last Week in Devuan

### [vdev status update][3]

As in other weeks, Jude posted to the list the weekly vdev status
update. Very interesting read.

### [Puppy Linux-related thoughts...][4]

Isaac Dunham started a post that there may be some guidelines from Puppy 
Linux for building a small, lightweight, fast, and relatively easy to 
use system, even for total Linux newbies. Includes a link to 
distrowatch.com on an antiX Jessie beta without systemd.


Apollia had a related post about Gobo Linux, Puppy [Linux.][5]

### [Why daemontools is so cool][7]

Steve Litt started this post listing some features he likes in 
daemontools. A lot of followup posts.


### [Any plans to provide xinit without the systemd hacks?][8]

### [Is libudev-compat ready for testing][9]

shraptor shraptor (or Scooby) saw Jude had committed some code and asked 
if libudev-compat is ready for testing. He further asked if there was 
there any testing done on vagrant image?


Jude replied that it's not quite ready - it's not yet ABI-compatible 
with libudev (but it is API-compatible).


Jaromil commented that sounds great. libudev-compat is the last thing 
standing in the way of removing systemd packages completely AFAIK


### [Another reason why I am considering Devuan][11]

It was pointed out that Debian had a systemd-related bug regarding DNS 
with follow ups relating to name server set up.


[11]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150329.130743.e7a627ec.en.html
[9]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150328.191653.370f97d3.en.html
[8]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150328.152643.98b7ea1f.en.html
[7]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150327.233205.623f3aa0.en.html
[6]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150327.233205.623f3aa0.en.html
[5]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150324.190730.1d70bafe.en.html
[4]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150323.055207.4da7fc30.en.html
[1]:http://www.nasa.gov/content/nasa-remembers-leonard-nimoy/
[2]:https://git.devuan.org/Envite/devuan-weekly-news/issues/2
[3]:https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150324.093704.b72a5258.en.html






## Devuan's Not Gnome

DNG is the discussion list of the Devuan Project.

- [Subscribe to the list][subscribe]
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- [Read online archives][archives]

---
Read you next week!

Devuan Weekly News is made by your peers: you're [welcome to 
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Re: [Dng] This has GOT to be an April Fools joke

[etech3]

Nate Did you read the devs name?

According to Ivan Gotyaovich

link to distrowatch

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20150330#community



On 03/30/2015 07:25 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

Is this really happening?


Now it appears as though the systemd developers have found a solution
to kernel compatibility problems and a way to extend their philosophy
of placing all key operating system components in one
repository. According to Ivan Gotyaovich, one of the developers
working on systemd, the project intends to maintain its own fork of
the Linux kernel. There are problems, problems in collaboration,
problems with compatibility across versions. Forking the kernel gives
us control over these issues, gives us control over almost all key
parts of the stack.

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20150330#community

Our proximity to April 1 makes me wonder, but still...

While there are several quotes in the article from one Ivan Gotyaovich,
I don't see any links to said quotes which leaves me a bit skeptical of
the veracity of the article.  However, the link to GitHub looks very
much like a kernel source tree, but I'm not certain that it is an
official repository.

Before anyone takes this too seriously a bit more research needs to be
done as we are very close to the date that an elaborate ruse is
plausible, at least for us in the USA.

- Nate



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Re: [Dng] Finding systemd

[etech3]

As a follow up, here's where I am:

Did a fresh install from Debian 6.0.6 business card net install dated 
2120930 Result clean, no systemd.


Did a fresh install from Debian 6.0.7 CD1 of the CD set. Result clean, 
no systemd.


Did a fresh install from Debian 6.0.7 net install with firmware Result 
clean, no systemd.


My conclusion is that Debian Squeeze is systemd free under most 
conitions. I know that of you are going So what, I already knew that.


So where did the systemd files come from? I made a mistake and added my 
Debian Squeeze Asterisk server notes to the wrong list. Which is where I 
start this project for, to upgrade the server to Wheezy.


The webmin files came from th install script that I had used to install 
Asterisk and Freepbx.


And the systemd files came from Wheezy. I had added to the sources.list 
the Wheezy repos to pull some secondary packages having to do with Asterisk.


as a added note, in one of the fresh installs, I added mondoarchive to 
be install and so far it's coming up cleanof systemd.


I had suggested that the systemd files might have come from the 
firmware files though I was almost postive that was not the case. And 
another suggestion was that they may have come from backports. These 
machines are headless machines only with no GUI.


Well that's it for now. This is for my use and your information. I can 
say that I had gone though the steps myself and tested the steps.


I will continue on with a lamp setup with mail server and so on. I will 
look at some desktop uses also.


I am looking for that little water leak in the dam that I should have 
stuck my finger in to plug the hole and maybe could have slowed the 
systemd flood. Lessons learned.


etech3  Stan



On 03/10/2015 05:16 PM, fsmithred wrote:

I installed squeeze about a week ago, from the xfce/lxde CD-1. Took the
default desktop install and added a bunch of stuff. This is what I get:


# locate systemd
/usr/include/jack/systemdeps.h

Which is part of jackd, not systemd.


And this:
# apt-cache policy systemd
N: Unable to locate package systemd

main, contrib and non-free enabled.

fsr



On 03/10/2015 08:01 AM, etech3 wrote:

Anto These were fresh installs.

On 03/10/2015 03:43 AM, Anto wrote:

On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote:

On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 ete...@e-tech-systems.com wrote:

   Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd
   To: dng@lists.dyne.org
   Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM

Hi everybody

In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I
could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by
installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard
install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is
a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory.

After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I
got:

/etc/systemd
/etc/systemd/system
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sudo.service
/usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi
Next I will post the package list with version numbers.

I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie.

Stan  etech3



I don't have any systemd on my squeeze.  How did you manage that?
Backports?

golinux

Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to
systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd
folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did you
do clean install?

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Re: [Dng] Finding systemd

[etech3]

The 6.0.7 net install had the firmware extras on it. I think that is 
where is came from. The 6.0.6 business card net install CD did not have 
systemd at all. I'm going going to run the installs again to check. I'll 
report back.


On 03/10/2015 03:43 AM, Anto wrote:

On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote:

On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 ete...@e-tech-systems.com wrote:

  Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd
  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
  Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM

Hi everybody

In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see 
if I

could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by
installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard
install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now 
this is

a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory.

After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is 
what I

got:

/etc/systemd
/etc/systemd/system
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sudo.service
/usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi
Next I will post the package list with version numbers.

I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie.

Stan  etech3



I don't have any systemd on my squeeze.  How did you manage that?  
Backports?


golinux


Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to 
systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd 
folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did 
you do clean install?


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Re: [Dng] Finding systemd

[etech3]

I am going to reinstall to test to make sure.

On 03/10/2015 06:56 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

Am Montag, 9. März 2015, 19:45:05 schrieb etech3:

Hi everybody

In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I
could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by
installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard
install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this
is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory.

After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I
got:

/etc/systemd
/etc/systemd/system
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sudo.service
/usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi

Next I will post the package list with version numbers.

I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie.

I highly doubt that webmin related files are part of a base or standard
install of Squeeze. To my knowledge webmin packages have been removed from
the archive quite some time ago and

merkaba:~ rmadison webmin
debian:
new:

merkaba:~ apt-file search /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi

seems to agree with me.


Other than that these are just some systemd related configuration files of
acpi and sudo packages. I am surprised these would be in Squeeze related
packages already. Did you install any newer, backport version of these?

Ciao,


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Re: [Dng] Finding systemd

[etech3]

Anto These were fresh installs.

On 03/10/2015 03:43 AM, Anto wrote:

On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote:

On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 ete...@e-tech-systems.com wrote:

  Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd
  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
  Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM

Hi everybody

In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see 
if I

could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by
installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard
install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now 
this is

a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory.

After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is 
what I

got:

/etc/systemd
/etc/systemd/system
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sudo.service
/usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi
Next I will post the package list with version numbers.

I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie.

Stan  etech3



I don't have any systemd on my squeeze.  How did you manage that?  
Backports?


golinux


Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to 
systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd 
folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did 
you do clean install?


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[Dng] Finding systemd

[etech3]

Hi everybody

In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I 
could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by 
installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard 
install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is 
a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory.


After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I 
got:


/etc/systemd
/etc/systemd/system
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
/etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sudo.service
/usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi
/usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi

Next I will post the package list with version numbers.

I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie.

Stan  etech3
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Re: [Dng] us as tech support

[etech3]

+1 on this.

That should be the main point or one of them. If not point to FAQs, 
Installation docs. Hey can this be added to git? I'll help.


On 03/01/2015 12:06 PM, Anto wrote:

On 01/03/15 17:38, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Sun, Mar 01, 2015 at 01:09:21AM -0500, Gravis wrote:

now we're tech support?

To an extent, yes.

We need to know what problems people have with our software, so we can
either fix it or fix the documentation.

Or do we want to be accused of notlistening to our users?

-- hendriks
I only posted 2 topics in this mailing list so far, with the hope to 
get the tech support. The question of Gravis above makes me wonder 
if I posted my emails to the right mailing list, as that kind of 
question is implying that this is not the right mailing list to ask 
for tech support. If so, I am really sorry for that. If there is 
other mailing list or perhaps a public forum for the tech support 
related questions, please let me know that. I am quite sure there are 
a lot of people out there who are genuinely eager to get in touch with 
Devuan. I think that kind of media also helps Devuan to gain publicity.

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Re: [Dng] us as tech support

[etech3]

You may want to see if the vps provider supports uploading your own 
(devuan) iso image. I remember finding one for a project that wanted to 
use Slack.


On 03/01/2015 01:03 PM, Anto wrote:

On 01/03/15 18:27, Hendrik Boom wrote:

This is the right mailing list.  There is no other at present.

Gravis expressed surprise at having a tech support request, but
he *did* answer the question.

I'm happy to have seen the first tech support request here.

It's a milestone.

I just expected it to arrive after the first release.  This wasn't even
called an alpha release yet!

-- hendrik


Thanks a lot Hendrik for your confirmation.

As you might be aware, my questions are mostly about the preparation 
to switch from Debian to Devuan on my 2 Xen VPS', hence pre-alpha 
release questions.


I am worry that my VPS providers will not provide Xen DomU image of 
Devuan in a few months after it is being released. Based on my 
previous experience, they provided the Xen DomU image of Debian Wheezy 
several months after it was being released. For Devuan, it is very 
likely to take longer time, if that would happen at all.


The only way that I see is to switch the repository from Debian to 
Devuan. But I am not really sure if that would work, so I am trying to 
minimise all possible issues based on my limited knowledge. I really 
hope that I will not face the impossibility like switching the 
repository from Debian to Ubuntu for instance.


Kind regards,

Anto

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