Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Didier Kryn]

Le 23/08/2016 09:02, KatolaZ a écrit :

I wouldn't be too much concerned about Internet polls. In particular,
a scientifically sound poll should ask a single question at a time,
and not mix four questions like in this case:

- Have you tried Devuan?
- If not, do you plan to try it in the future?
- If yes, do you think it is ready to use?
- If it is not ready to use, how much work do you think is needed?


It doesn't respond to the following question: how many didn't 
answer the poll because they just don't care and they feel satisfied 
with Systemd or Windows?


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 06:27:58PM +, Go Linux wrote:
> Looks like the second poll has ended.  There's a new one up today and voting 
> is no longer an option.  Here are the final results:
> 
> Poll results for: The state of Devuan
> 
> I have tried Devuan and it is ready to use:   95 (27%)
> I have tried Devuan and it needs a little more work:  45 (13%)
> I have tried Devuan and it needs lots more work:  19 (5%)
> I have not yet tried Devuan but plan to later:90 (25%)
> I have not yet tried Devuan and have no plans to try it:  107 (30%)

The important ones are, of course, the ones who have tried Devuan.  Most of 
those 
who have tried Devuan think it is ready to use. 

But we should try to accommodate that 13 %.

And what are the problems of the 5%. 

Unfortunately the poll doesn't give us this level of detail.

-- hendrik

> 
> Those results are actually better percentage wise than the ones that were 
> "lost".  Thanks to everyone who voted.
> 
> golinux
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Clarke Sideroad]

On 08/20/2016 05:02 AM, Didier Kryn wrote:



What can prevent a single person from voting multiple times? I have
voted - once only - but I think this kind of poll is, at the minimum,
terribly biased.



It probably only allows one per IP address per day.
So if you are on a dynamically assigned address... (-;

Polls traditionally get loaded by the questions asked and the targeted 
demographic.

The nature of the beast.

Clarke


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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Didier Kryn]

Le 20/08/2016 07:11, Peter Olson a écrit :

On August 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM Steve Litt  wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:06:24 -0400
fsmithred  wrote:


For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped,

I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
times because I'm originally from Chicago.

Boston has dibs on that as well.




What can prevent a single person from voting multiple times? I have 
voted - once only - but I think this kind of poll is, at the minimum, 
terribly biased.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):

> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:53:18 -0700
> Rick Moen  wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> > 
> > > I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> > > times because I'm originally from Chicago.  
> > 
> > I was able to vote while eating BBQ because I'm visiting Kansas City.
> 
> Go to Santa Maria California and get a "tritip" from one of the local
> street vendors.

It's only a 385 km bicycle ride from home.  I'll get right on that!

(I did vote in the Distrowatch poll, saying, truthfully, 'I have not yet
tried Devuan but plan to later.'  Which position I see is at a
respectable 23%, with 53 votes.)
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:53:18 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> 
> > I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> > times because I'm originally from Chicago.  
> 
> I was able to vote while eating BBQ because I'm visiting Kansas City.

Go to Santa Maria California and get a "tritip" from one of the local
street vendors.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt
August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
  Brand new, second edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Peter Olson]

> On August 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:06:24 -0400
> fsmithred  wrote:
> 
> > For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped,
> 
> I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> times because I'm originally from Chicago.

Boston has dibs on that as well.

Peter Olson
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):

> I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> times because I'm originally from Chicago.

I was able to vote while eating BBQ because I'm visiting Kansas City.

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):

> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?

How does that not describe just about every Internet poll, ever?

I did, though, rather like what the government of Hungary did about
Stephen Colbert fans brigading the Internet poll to rename the Northern
M0 Danube Bridge between Buda and Pest:  Hungarian Ambassador András
Simonyi appeared on The Colbert Report (Colbert's comedic television
programme) to congratulate Mr. Colbert on placing first with 17 million
votes (the entire population of Hungary being about 10M), but deadpanned
that Hungarian law imposed a couple of additional requirements:

One, he said Colbert would need to be fluent in Hungarian.  Two, once
that minor problem was addressed, Mr. Colbert would need to be
_deceased_.

A fortnight later, the Hungarian Geographical Name Committee decided to
ignore the poll and name the bridge 'Megyeri' on grounds of it
connecting the  Káposztásmegyer and Békásmegyer districts.

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Edward Bartolo]

What does it mean "little" and "lots" of work? Words like "little"and
"lots" are too subjective. Although DEVUAN may be a works in progress,
many like me have been using it as their production OS for a whole
year. An OS can never be ready. Is MS Windows ready? Does it have
outstanding bugs? Is everyone satisfied with MS Windows GUI? I am
asking about MS Windows, but my questions can be asked about all
operating systems, open and closed.

Popularity and polls are intimately related as popularity often shapes
the result of polls. Does it make any difference if the masses out
there reject DEVUAN or not? DEVUAN is the result of rejecting systemd
which was created to make things easier for the masses. A good survey
would be one that specifically asks system administrators. Is DEVUAN
being adopted to power servers? Do server administrators prefer to
have systemd dependent OSs powering their machines? Is DEVUAN being
used as a base for other distributions?

Please take popular polls that appeal to the masses with a pinch of salt.

Edward


-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Albert Einstein
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 8/19/16, fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, August 19, 2016, 1:06 PM

On 08/19/2016 01:31 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:55:49 + (UTC)
>> Go Linux <goli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
>>>   
>>
>>> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would
>>> depend whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why
>>> shouldn't it be those of us supporting Devuan?
>>>
>>> golinux
>>
>> Well said!
>>
>> Whether it's intentional sabotage or ballot stuffing, I'm a lot more
>> likely to retain a high sense of dignity and ethics if my opponents are
>> playing by the rules.
>>
>> Or, as one of the characters in "Lucifer's Hammer" says toward the end
>> of the book, "A society adopts the ethics they can afford."
>>
>> SteveT
>>
 ___

> For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped, what I
> recall is that around half said they would never try it, a quarter said
> they'd try it later.
> 
> Among those who had tried it, three times as many said it was ready than
> said it needed a lot of work. And those who said in needed a little work
> were between the other two groups.
> 
> For raw numbers, the only one I remember is that 12 said it was ready. I'm
> a little slow with math, so I'll stop here.
> 
> -fsr

That last number was at least 120 - maybe a typo?   My click was #70!

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:06:24 -0400
fsmithred  wrote:

> For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped,

I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
times because I'm originally from Chicago.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt
August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
  Brand new, second edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[fsmithred]

On 08/19/2016 01:31 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:55:49 + (UTC)
> Go Linux  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski  wrote:
> 
>>> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
>>>   
>>
>> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would
>> depend whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why
>> shouldn't it be those of us supporting Devuan?
>>
>> golinux
> 
> Well said!
> 
> Whether it's intentional sabotage or ballot stuffing, I'm a lot more
> likely to retain a high sense of dignity and ethics if my opponents are
> playing by the rules.
> 
> Or, as one of the characters in "Lucifer's Hammer" says toward the end
> of the book, "A society adopts the ethics they can afford."
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt
> August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
>   Brand new, second edition
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
> ___

For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped, what I
recall is that around half said they would never try it, a quarter said
they'd try it later.

Among those who had tried it, three times as many said it was ready than
said it needed a lot of work. And those who said in needed a little work
were between the other two groups.

For raw numbers, the only one I remember is that 12 said it was ready. I'm
a little slow with math, so I'll stop here.

-fsr


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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Nate Bargmann]

I chose the second option as it does need a bit more work WRT Network
Manager a few small nits.  I'm confident these will be completed soon.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:55:49 + (UTC)
Go Linux  wrote:

> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski  wrote:

> > What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
> >   
> 
> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would
> depend whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why
> shouldn't it be those of us supporting Devuan?
> 
> golinux

Well said!

Whether it's intentional sabotage or ballot stuffing, I'm a lot more
likely to retain a high sense of dignity and ethics if my opponents are
playing by the rules.

Or, as one of the characters in "Lucifer's Hammer" says toward the end
of the book, "A society adopts the ethics they can afford."

SteveT

Steve Litt
August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
  Brand new, second edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:55:49PM +, Go Linux wrote:
> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Date: Friday, August 19, 2016, 2:13 AM
>  
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:21:24AM +, Go Linux wrote:
> 
> >> The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
> >> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - 
> >> went sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another 
> >> unrelated poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was 
> >> back to zero and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 
> >> 'lose' the original data.
> >>
> >> Time to go click again:
> >>
> >>  http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll
> >>
> >> Polls may not be important but still . . .
> > 
> > 
> > What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
> > 
> 
> 
> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would depend 
> whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why shouldn't it be 
> those of us supporting Devuan?

That poll asks whether Devuan is ready.  It also asks separate 
questions of those using and not using Devuan.  It does look as if it 
is properly structured.

Go look and decide yourself.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, August 19, 2016, 2:13 AM
 
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:21:24AM +, Go Linux wrote:

>> The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
>> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - 
>> went sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another 
>> unrelated poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was 
>> back to zero and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 
>> 'lose' the original data.
>>
>> Time to go click again:
>>
>>  http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll
>>
>> Polls may not be important but still . . .
> 
> 
> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
> 


What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would depend whether 
you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why shouldn't it be those of us 
supporting Devuan?

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:21:24AM +, Go Linux wrote:
> The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - went 
> sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another unrelated 
> poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was back to zero 
> and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 'lose' the 
> original data.
> 
> Time to go click again:
> 
>  http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll
> 
> Polls may not be important but still . . .

What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?

-- 
An imaginary friend squared is a real enemy.
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[DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Go Linux]

The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - went 
sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another unrelated 
poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was back to zero 
and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 'lose' the 
original data.

Time to go click again:

 http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll

Polls may not be important but still . . .

golinux
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