Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Ismael L. Donis Garcia]

For my understanding should be LXQt and as a second option TDE in the 
recharging to desktop PCs, for server one smaller is not bad.


Best Regards

| ISMAEL |

- Original Message - 
From: "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" <dr.kl...@gmx.at>

To: <dng@lists.dyne.org>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme



Am Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2017 schrieb goli...@dyne.org:

That won't be possible for jessie at this late date.  Theming takes a
LOT of time and is painstaking work.  I'm not a fan of TDE - too clunky
and cluttered for my taste but it will be under consideration for ascii
along with other DE/WM if Xfce is no longer workable.  However, it is
possible that other desktops will suffer the same issues with the
installer. But thanks to fsmithred, we have a reliable and easy to
install desktop option until this can be sorted.

golinux


I do not know yout work for XFCE (as I prefer FVWM), but I could do the 
theming for TDE. If you like yust send me the  intended artwork.


Nik


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2017 schrieb goli...@dyne.org:
> That won't be possible for jessie at this late date.  Theming takes a 
> LOT of time and is painstaking work.  I'm not a fan of TDE - too clunky 
> and cluttered for my taste but it will be under consideration for ascii 
> along with other DE/WM if Xfce is no longer workable.  However, it is 
> possible that other desktops will suffer the same issues with the 
> installer. But thanks to fsmithred, we have a reliable and easy to 
> install desktop option until this can be sorted.
> 
> golinux

I do not know yout work for XFCE (as I prefer FVWM), but I could do the theming 
for TDE. If you like yust send me the  intended artwork.

Nik


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Ron]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 16:00:56 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> > > > On a happier note I have just bought another motorbike, a 1967 LE 
> > > > Velocette and it is much more fun than anything to do with
> > > > software!
> > > 
> > > I understand they have a systemd mod for that bike so that when the
> > > chain gets dry, it takes two tries to get it started.

> > That will never happen ;-)
> > It's shaft drive.

> Apparently you haven't seen the systemd model. The drive shaft twirl a
> planetary gear system, which drives a pair of rubber belts that
> transfer power to the transmission, which is mounted on the front fork.
> The transmission generates electricity for the motor, with gear ratios
> achieved by coil windings. The drive shifts gears by switching the
> sockets into which the windings are plugged: This technology is called
> socket activation. The transmission drives the chain, which drives the
> front wheel.

A chain-driven front-wheel-drive noddy bike ? The mind boggles...
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
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  pour supporter les maux d'autrui.
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 09:43:06 +
Rowland Penny  wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 20:03:57 -0500
> Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> 
> >   
> > > On a happier note I have just bought another motorbike, a 1967 LE 
> > > Velocette and it is much more fun than anything to do with
> > > software!  
> > 
> > I understand they have a systemd mod for that bike so that when the
> > chain gets dry, it takes two tries to get it started.
> >   
> 
> That will never happen ;-)
> It's shaft drive.
> 
> Rowland

Apparently you haven't seen the systemd model. The drive shaft twirl a
planetary gear system, which drives a pair of rubber belts that
transfer power to the transmission, which is mounted on the front fork.
The transmission generates electricity for the motor, with gear ratios
achieved by coil windings. The drive shifts gears by switching the
sockets into which the windings are plugged: This technology is called
socket activation. The transmission drives the chain, which drives the
front wheel.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Rowland Penny]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 20:03:57 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:


> 
> > On a happier note I have just bought another motorbike, a 1967 LE 
> > Velocette and it is much more fun than anything to do with software!
> 
> I understand they have a systemd mod for that bike so that when the
> chain gets dry, it takes two tries to get it started.
> 

That will never happen ;-)
It's shaft drive.

Rowland
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:25:07 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:


> But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop
> that actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom, and
> its consequent configurability.
> 
> They seem to be falling for corporate branding and lockdown in
> droves, judging from this conversation.  Will there be any left when
> ascii is released?

You can pretty much count on dwm not being assimilated by the
freedesktop corporatocracy. For those not wanting tiling, I'm pretty
sure that Openbox (with or without suitable panel app), fvwm and jwm
will remain independent, and with proper aestheticalization, can look
like they're not tiny army-surplus software.


SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 04:14:44 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Dr. Nikolaus Klepp (dr.kl...@gmx.at):
> 
> > As david already pointed out, you could use TDE as default.  
> 
> I appreciated David saying that, and meant to reply that I do
> apologise for forgetting Trinity Desktop Environment (2010 fork of
> KDE 3.5), and, if someone here is a Wikipedian, can help ensure it's
> more seldom forgotten by adding coverage to the Wikipedia page I
> relied on for my roster of DEs.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments

KDE 3.x was gratuitously entanged junk, based on my use of it just
after the turn of the century. The fact that KDE 4.x is even worse
doesn't lessen this. I suggest we stay away from anything resembling
KDE. And KDE3.x was bloaty, as I remember. When I switched from KDE to
IceWM, it was like somebody added a second processor to my machine.

[snip Moska stuff]

> Personally, I've never seen any value proposition in Desktop
> Environments at all.  Picking a WM and then applications on an a la
> carte basis has always met my needs, and I see no benefit in a suite 
> of things I want plus things I don't.

If I were a more expressive writer, I would have already written the
preceding paragraph. It tells the absolute truth. I can't begin to
enumerate the hardships caused by "integration."

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 07:58:32 +0100
Jochen Fahrner  wrote:

> Am 23.02.2017 um 00:25 schrieb Hendrik Boom:
> > But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop
> > that actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom,
> > and its consequent configurability.  
> 
> That's right. But does it have to be a complete integrated desktop
> environment? 

HECK no!

Fans of integration are best served by systemd, which comes with its
own suite of GOSFUI, networking, device handling, and soon to be
package managing.

Seriously, Openbox plus dmenu plus a panel app would do just fine, if
configured correctly.

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:14:28 -0600
goli...@dyne.org wrote:


> > I'm a bit uncertain about that
> >  > decided. Long story . . .>
> > Does it need a default colour?
> > Aren't there better things to do?
> >   
> 
> Of course there are.  But those are not things that I can do.  I can
> do visual things but not write a line of code.  So that is a niche
> for me to contribute.  But a default color is also practical.  It
> visually helps to identify the version being used.

Also, golinux is really good at aesthetics, and love it or hate it, a
lot of Devuan's reputation will be determined by its aesthetics. If
Debian hadn't kangaroo-courted systemd, Debian would have golinux now
instead of us. I suggest golinux is an advantage for us.

 
SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:55:54 +
Dave Turner  wrote:

>  >Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles
>  >synaptic   
> etc.in jessie.
>  >We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if
>  >there   
> will even be one . .
> 
> I was losing track of who said what when, but THAT above is what I
> want to comment on!
> 
> You have enough to do, don't have a default desktop in ascii.
> The choice of desktop is MINE not yours!

But then what GOSFUI (Graphical OS Facing User Interface) comes up when
you boot your newly installed Devuan? What GOSFUI comes up when you
boot your Devuan CD?

> 
> (I loathe synaptic with a vengeance, feel free to abandon it)
> 
> I'm a bit uncertain about that
>  decided. Long story . . .>
> Does it need a default colour?
> Aren't there better things to do?

LOL, if you saw my desktop you'd suspect I agree with you that
aesthetics are meaningless to me. But having tried golinux' themes for
xfce and (IIRC) OpenBox, I've got to say it's pretty good. And golinux
(and fredsmith) has been very responsive to my comments about
readability for low vision type people.

> On a happier note I have just bought another motorbike, a 1967 LE 
> Velocette and it is much more fun than anything to do with software!

I understand they have a systemd mod for that bike so that when the
chain gets dry, it takes two tries to get it started.

 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:49:16 -0600
goli...@dyne.org wrote:


> Heads up . . . the entire Xfce4 stack is moving to GTK3:
> 
> https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2016-04-12/road-to-xfce-4.14.html
> 
> golinux

Hopefully, the kind of people no-thankyouing systemd started forming
migration plans away from xfce a long time ago. For the past several
years xfce has had gratuitous dependency and entanglement with dbus.
Even back in xfce's "good old days", it had lots of iffy behaviors you
needed to work around.

Xfce rose to prominence as a Gnome alternative when Gnome2 became the
infathomable Gnome3, gaining a "light" reputation based on comparisons
to Gnome3, KDE and Unity. But it's actually quite bloaty, and like most
bloaty software, it has all sorts of nooks and crannies for bugs and
unexpected behaviors to hide in.

People who prefer controlling their computer to having their computer
control them are moving more and more to lightweight GOSFUIs (Graphical
OS Facing User Interface) like lxde, lxqt, jwm, fvwm, dwm, Windowmaker,
Icewm, TWM, OpenBox, as well as a raft of tiling GUSFUIs, not because
their computers are short on resources, but because the more libraries a
GOSFUI depends on, the more likely one will go to the dark side
(unbreakable corporate control of the user experience), requiring the
GOSFUI to follow.

With golinux on our side, we have the opportunity to make absolutely
any GOSFUI look great and interface in a Devuan-expected manner. I'd
suggest that Jessie be the last Devuan that has xfce as its default
GOSFUI.

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[David Hare]

Didn't mean to actually suggest TDE for any default nor that the main
focus should be other than getting Devuan Jessie ready. XFCE4 is fine
(for now).

Just pointing out, TDE has an extensive application set (including an
office suit) with no need of gtk -anything (they forked qt3 for it)
nor systemd. Many are not even aware it exists, is actively maintained
and works well on a Devuan base.

D
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Alessandro Selli]

Il giorno Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:44:53 -0700
Gregory Nowak  ha scritto:

> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:32:48AM +0100, Jochen Fahrner wrote:
> > If you want to completely avoid Gtk, you have to go without many
> > non-gnome apps like LXDE and Xfce desktop environments, Claws Mail,
> > AbiWord, Chrome, Firefox, Midori, Pidgin and many more.
> 
> I'll add orca to that list, given there's currently no equivalent for
> the GNU/Linux desktop as far as I know.

  Not to mention Libreoffice.


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[golinux]

On 2017-02-23 00:58, Jochen Fahrner wrote:

Am 23.02.2017 um 00:25 schrieb Hendrik Boom:

But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop that
actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom, and its
consequent configurability.


That's right. But does it have to be a complete integrated desktop
environment? Does anyone know "Crunchbang Linux" (based on Wheezy) or
its successor "Bunsenlab Linux" (based on Jessie)? It's a simple
desktop, composed of openbox, tint2, some scripts and a nice theme. I
love it. I ported this desktop to my Devuan Jessie. The only downside:
the Crunchbang theme is not fully compatible with Jessie, because of
gtk3 in some applications. And I'm not familiar with repairing broken
themes. :-(


The Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme offers GTK3 compatibility as well as a 
nice purpy openbox theme.  So go purpy!!


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[golinux]

On 2017-02-23 03:27, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2017 schrieb Jaromil:

Golinux has done an outstanding work with the looks of Devuan,
starting from the website to finish with the purpy desktop, but we
must admit the integration of this part is one of the main reasons we
are so late, since the Linux desktop has become an hairball of stupid
freedesktop standards.

If noone manages to fix the default desktop installed using d-i, then
we'll drop the idea of fixing it and present the Devuan-live packed
together by Refracta's author fsmithred as the "official Devuan for
desktop". The d-i installer (aka still useful hairball) will stay for
the many other usecases where its desired.


As david already pointed out, you could use TDE as default.

Nik



That won't be possible for jessie at this late date.  Theming takes a 
LOT of time and is painstaking work.  I'm not a fan of TDE - too clunky 
and cluttered for my taste but it will be under consideration for ascii 
along with other DE/WM if Xfce is no longer workable.  However, it is 
possible that other desktops will suffer the same issues with the 
installer. But thanks to fsmithred, we have a reliable and easy to 
install desktop option until this can be sorted.


golinux

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Dr. Nikolaus Klepp (dr.kl...@gmx.at):

> As david already pointed out, you could use TDE as default.

I appreciated David saying that, and meant to reply that I do apologise
for forgetting Trinity Desktop Environment (2010 fork of KDE 3.5), and, 
if someone here is a Wikipedian, can help ensure it's more seldom
forgotten by adding coverage to the Wikipedia page I relied on for my
roster of DEs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments

Moksha Desktop ought to be there, too.  Anyone curious about same, try
installing Bodhi Linux in a VM to take a look-see.

http://www.bodhilinux.com/2015/04/28/introducing-the-moksha-desktop/

Personally, I've never seen any value proposition in Desktop
Environments at all.  Picking a WM and then applications on an a la
carte basis has always met my needs, and I see no benefit in a suite 
of things I want plus things I don't.  (But that's another discussion.)


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2017 schrieb Jaromil:
> Golinux has done an outstanding work with the looks of Devuan,
> starting from the website to finish with the purpy desktop, but we
> must admit the integration of this part is one of the main reasons we
> are so late, since the Linux desktop has become an hairball of stupid
> freedesktop standards.
> 
> If noone manages to fix the default desktop installed using d-i, then
> we'll drop the idea of fixing it and present the Devuan-live packed
> together by Refracta's author fsmithred as the "official Devuan for
> desktop". The d-i installer (aka still useful hairball) will stay for
> the many other usecases where its desired.

As david already pointed out, you could use TDE as default.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Jaromil]

yes we are still turtles :^) but at least we are not struggling to
catch up with badly designed toolkits. The reasons for our delay in
releasing Devuan 1.0 Jessie stable are very different, only one of
them explained below:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017, Jochen Fahrner wrote:

> Am 23.02.2017 um 00:25 schrieb Hendrik Boom:
> > But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop that
> > actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom, and its 
> > consequent configurability.
> 
> That's right. But does it have to be a complete integrated desktop
> environment?

I wonder about the concept of "integration" in desktop environments:
from the ORB broker craze onward (corba etc.) it just went completely
bonkers. One can build a perfectly functional desktop with time, love
for details and tools already available, even avoiding GTK.

That said, I think our usecase is not only desktop, to the contrary:
Devuan is a base distro and our main usecase is people wanting to
build their own things using Devuan (big up to the derivatives!)
without being forced to buy into an "integrated environment", but
thriving with using their own combination of tools.

Golinux has done an outstanding work with the looks of Devuan,
starting from the website to finish with the purpy desktop, but we
must admit the integration of this part is one of the main reasons we
are so late, since the Linux desktop has become an hairball of stupid
freedesktop standards.

If noone manages to fix the default desktop installed using d-i, then
we'll drop the idea of fixing it and present the Devuan-live packed
together by Refracta's author fsmithred as the "official Devuan for
desktop". The d-i installer (aka still useful hairball) will stay for
the many other usecases where its desired.


ciao



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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Jochen Fahrner]

Am 23.02.2017 um 00:25 schrieb Hendrik Boom:
> But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop that
> actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom, and its 
> consequent configurability.

That's right. But does it have to be a complete integrated desktop
environment? Does anyone know "Crunchbang Linux" (based on Wheezy) or
its successor "Bunsenlab Linux" (based on Jessie)? It's a simple
desktop, composed of openbox, tint2, some scripts and a nice theme. I
love it. I ported this desktop to my Devuan Jessie. The only downside:
the Crunchbang theme is not fully compatible with Jessie, because of
gtk3 in some applications. And I'm not familiar with repairing broken
themes. :-(

-- 
Mit besten Grüßen
Jochen Fahrner


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[David Hare]

Probably only TDE/TQT.. which almost nobody seems to have noticed.

On 22/02/2017, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 08:55:54PM +, Dave Turner wrote:
>> >Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic
>> > etc.in
>> jessie.
>> >We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if there
>> > will
>> even be one . .
>>
>> I was losing track of who said what when, but THAT above is what I want to
>> comment on!
>>
>> You have enough to do, don't have a default desktop in ascii.
>> The choice of desktop is MINE not yours!
>
> But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop that
> actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom, and its
> consequent configurability.
>
> They seem to be falling for corporate branding and lockdown in droves,
> judging from this conversation.  Will there be any left when ascii is
> released?
>
> -- hendrik
>
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 08:55:54PM +, Dave Turner wrote:
> >Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic etc.in
> jessie.
> >We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if there will
> even be one . .
> 
> I was losing track of who said what when, but THAT above is what I want to
> comment on!
> 
> You have enough to do, don't have a default desktop in ascii.
> The choice of desktop is MINE not yours!

But it *is* importnt to have a collection of at least one desktop that 
actually works in accordance with our commitment to freedom, and its 
consequent configurability.

They seem to be falling for corporate branding and lockdown in droves, 
judging from this conversation.  Will there be any left when ascii is 
released?

-- hendrik

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[golinux]

On 2017-02-22 14:55, Dave Turner wrote:
Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic 
etc.in jessie.
We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if there 
will even be one . .


I was losing track of who said what when, but THAT above is what I
want to comment on!

You have enough to do, don't have a default desktop in ascii.
The choice of desktop is MINE not yours!



This is true.  But distros are recognized by their graphics (which is 
one reason why gnome is locking things down - branding) and it would be 
nice to have Devuan looking good in addition to working flawlessly.  
Appearance is of course not everything but it does create an impression 
depending on what those graphics are (think of the 'space fun' fiasco) . 
. .




(I loathe synaptic with a vengeance, feel free to abandon it)



It's sooo much easier than opening a terminal and typing.



I'm a bit uncertain about that

Does it need a default colour?
Aren't there better things to do?



Of course there are.  But those are not things that I can do.  I can do 
visual things but not write a line of code.  So that is a niche for me 
to contribute.  But a default color is also practical.  It visually 
helps to identify the version being used.


golinux


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Dave Turner]

>Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic 
etc.in jessie.
>We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if there 
will even be one . .


I was losing track of who said what when, but THAT above is what I want 
to comment on!


You have enough to do, don't have a default desktop in ascii.
The choice of desktop is MINE not yours!

(I loathe synaptic with a vengeance, feel free to abandon it)

I'm a bit uncertain about that
Long story . . .>

Does it need a default colour?
Aren't there better things to do?

On a happier note I have just bought another motorbike, a 1967 LE 
Velocette and it is much more fun than anything to do with software!


DaveT


On 22/02/17 17:14, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

On 2017-02-22 09:22, aitor_czr wrote:

Hi golinux,

On 02/22/2017 02:34 AM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:



Hi aitor,

The green you used in the Devuan-Green from July last year is
closer to leafy - #8FAA00. There is no green even close to the
green in your current theme planned for devuan. However note that
the signature color for ascii has yet to be decided. Long story . .
.


 I know, that's the green colour used in Mint-Y, the gtk-(beta) theme
in LinuxMint.



Then it should be named Minty-Green.  ;)



There is no hilighting of selected items in synaptic and the title
and menu bar are broken. That could be because I'm on jessie not
ascii.


 Synaptic is one of the gtk3 applications giving more aesthetic
problems at every turn. For example, the toolbar has a handle on the
left side (like the toolbar of the gtk2 example in lxappearance:
http://gnuinos.org/2017-02-22--1487776608_178x159_scrot.png [3]) , but
it's missing in the most of the gtk themes.



Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic 
etc.in jessie.
We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if there 
will even be one . .

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[golinux]

On 2017-02-22 12:55, Rick Moen wrote:

Quoting goli...@dyne.org (goli...@dyne.org):


Heads up . . . the entire Xfce4 stack is moving to GTK3:
https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2016-04-12/road-to-xfce-4.14.html


With lightning speed starting February 2015, I notice.
https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2015-February/031146.html
I wonder how many times gtk3 changes will have broken their data when
(and if) they finish it?

And then they can pause for breath for a millisecond and start work on
the Wayland port.

(I don't mean to mock a noble effort, by which I refer to Xfce4, not
necessarily Wayland.)


Anyone in the Devuan camp should not be throwing stones at a fellow 
turtle.  ;)


Recently there was a post to the Thunar list reiterating the GTK3 move. 
There's also talk of it on the Xfce forum.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Rick Moen]

Quoting goli...@dyne.org (goli...@dyne.org):

> Heads up . . . the entire Xfce4 stack is moving to GTK3:
> https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2016-04-12/road-to-xfce-4.14.html

With lightning speed starting February 2015, I notice.
https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2015-February/031146.html
I wonder how many times gtk3 changes will have broken their data when
(and if) they finish it?

And then they can pause for breath for a millisecond and start work on
the Wayland port.

(I don't mean to mock a noble effort, by which I refer to Xfce4, not
necessarily Wayland.)

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Gregory Nowak]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:32:48AM +0100, Jochen Fahrner wrote:
> If you want to completely avoid Gtk, you have to go without many
> non-gnome apps like LXDE and Xfce desktop environments, Claws Mail,
> AbiWord, Chrome, Firefox, Midori, Pidgin and many more.

I'll add orca to that list, given there's currently no equivalent for
the GNU/Linux desktop as far as I know.

Greg


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[golinux]

On 2017-02-22 09:22, aitor_czr wrote:

Hi golinux,

On 02/22/2017 02:34 AM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:



Hi aitor,

The green you used in the Devuan-Green from July last year is
closer to leafy - #8FAA00. There is no green even close to the
green in your current theme planned for devuan. However note that
the signature color for ascii has yet to be decided. Long story . .
.


 I know, that's the green colour used in Mint-Y, the gtk-(beta) theme
in LinuxMint.



Then it should be named Minty-Green.  ;)



There is no hilighting of selected items in synaptic and the title
and menu bar are broken. That could be because I'm on jessie not
ascii.


 Synaptic is one of the gtk3 applications giving more aesthetic
problems at every turn. For example, the toolbar has a handle on the
left side (like the toolbar of the gtk2 example in lxappearance:
http://gnuinos.org/2017-02-22--1487776608_178x159_scrot.png [3]) , but
it's missing in the most of the gtk themes.



Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic 
etc.in jessie.
We may have to rethink the default desktop in ascii . . . and if there 
will even be one . .

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[aitor_czr]

Hi golinux,

On 02/22/2017 02:34 AM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

On 2017-02-21 17:20, aitor_czr wrote:

Hi,

I'm working on a new gtk theme, based on the official Adwaita:

http://gnuinos.org/Devuan-Green/ [1] Copy the following hidden files:

  .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini

  .gtkrc-2.0

to:

   /root

And compare, for example, "synaptic" and "pdfchain" in ascii.

Cheers,

  Aitor.



Links:
--
[1] http://gnuinos.org/Devuan-Green/


--

Hi aitor,

The green you used in the Devuan-Green from July last year is closer 
to leafy - #8FAA00.  There is no green even close to the green in your 
current theme planned for devuan.  However note that the signature 
color for ascii has yet to be decided.  Long story . . .


I know, that's the green colour used in Mint-Y, the gtk-(beta) theme in 
LinuxMint.




The frame colors are much nicer in this current theme - lighter which 
is good.


There is no hilighting of selected items in synaptic and the title and 
menu bar are broken.  That could be because I'm on jessie not ascii.


Synaptic is one of the gtk3 applications giving more aesthetic problems 
at every turn. For example, the toolbar has a handle on the left side 
(like the toolbar of the gtk2 example in lxappearance: 
http://gnuinos.org/2017-02-22--1487776608_178x159_scrot.png) , but it's 
missing in the most of the gtk themes.




I'm not a fan of anything adwaita but we may not have many choices for 
gtk3 compatible themes going forward.  This explains a lot of what's 
going on:


https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/

Neither am I a fan of flat highlights because it's difficult to 
visually separate items in a block hilight.


The same happens to me.



BTW, I just dropped the theme in /usr/share/themes. No need to put it 
in /root


I didn't poke around too much so there's likely stuff broken that I 
didn't see.  If takes a long time to find all those little bugs.


Appreciate your efforts.  I'll be trying to sort a theme for ascii 
myself before too long . . .


golinux 


Looking forward :)

  Aitor.



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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:31:32AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Other DEs outside the gtk2-to-gtk3 conundrum: 
> 
> KDE: Qt5
> Cinnamon, MATE: gtk3  (to the extent that these are DEs distinct from GNOME3)
> Enlightenment & Moksha Desktop:  Elementary (from EFL)
> Étoilé: GNUstep

CDE: Motif

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2017 schrieb Rick Moen:
> Quoting Jochen Fahrner (j...@fahrner.name):
> Other DEs outside the gtk2-to-gtk3 conundrum: 
> 
> KDE: Qt5
> Cinnamon, MATE: gtk3  (to the extent that these are DEs distinct from GNOME3)
> Enlightenment & Moksha Desktop:  Elementary (from EFL)
> Étoilé: GNUstep

TDE: TQt / Qt3


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Jaromil]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017, Jochen Fahrner wrote:

> The next step after "no systemd" should be "no gnome".

it isn't a coincidence DNG stands for Devuan is not GNOME ;^)

ciao

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Jochen Fahrner (j...@fahrner.name):

> Am 22.02.2017 um 10:12 schrieb Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI:
> >
> > Move from Gtk to Qt ?
> >  
> >
> 
> If you want to completely avoid Gtk, you have to go without many
> non-gnome apps like LXDE and Xfce desktop environments, Claws Mail,
> AbiWord, Chrome, Firefox, Midori, Pidgin and many more.
> 
> Do you really want to go without Firefox or Chrome?

Fortunately, this is basically a rhetorical question on your part.
I don't think anyone present wants to do away with gtk, especially gtk2:
It's just a lib.  In my own view, if an application's dependency tree
isn't too absurd, I don't mind a few more libs, so e.g., AbiWord is 
easy to justify even though I have no interest at all in GNOME.  When
you get to the bloat level of KMail dependencies, on the other hand,
that's where I balk.  (People's tolerance levels obviously differ.)

IMO, the interesting question is what _DEs_ will do about the gtk3
GNOME-centrism problem.  I mean those affected, of course.  We've seen
what LXDE did: bail and migrate to Qt5.  ROX Desktop and Xfce4 are the
other gtk2-based DEs.  ROX Desktop has had little sign of life in six
years:  I think they're done.  Which leaves Xfce4.

Other DEs outside the gtk2-to-gtk3 conundrum: 

KDE: Qt5
Cinnamon, MATE: gtk3  (to the extent that these are DEs distinct from GNOME3)
Enlightenment & Moksha Desktop:  Elementary (from EFL)
Étoilé: GNUstep

As a Window Maker / GNUstep weirdo, I admire the crankiness of the
Étoilé and Enlightenment / Moksha Desktop people in ignoring most of the
world, and long may their flags wave.  
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:32:48AM +0100, Jochen Fahrner wrote:
> Am 22.02.2017 um 10:12 schrieb Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI:
> >
> > Move from Gtk to Qt ?
> >  
> >
> 
> If you want to completely avoid Gtk, you have to go without many
> non-gnome apps like LXDE and Xfce desktop environments, Claws Mail,
> AbiWord, Chrome, Firefox, Midori, Pidgin and many more.
> 
> Do you really want to go without Firefox or Chrome?
> 

tabbed+surf works pretty well for cavemen. And is much faster and less
resource-eager than either Firefox or Chrome/Chromium.

Many people out there want us to believe that we cannot make it
without this or that specific piece of software. But it's just a lie,
admittedly a very powerful one, repeated over and over again.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Jochen Fahrner]

Am 22.02.2017 um 10:12 schrieb Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI:
>
> Move from Gtk to Qt ?
>  
>

If you want to completely avoid Gtk, you have to go without many
non-gnome apps like LXDE and Xfce desktop environments, Claws Mail,
AbiWord, Chrome, Firefox, Midori, Pidgin and many more.

Do you really want to go without Firefox or Chrome?

The goal should be to make a system with applications linked against
gtk2 libraries, avoiding gtk3 totally.

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Ron]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:04:07 +0100
Jochen Fahrner  wrote:

> The next step after "no systemd" should be "no gnome".

Move from Gtk to Qt ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Jochen Fahrner]

Am 22.02.2017 um 09:06 schrieb Rick Moen:
>
> Several of IgnorantGuru's blog posts from around that time speak to the 
> greatly increased GNOME lock-in that has plagued the gkt+3 series, 
> in sharp contrast to gtk+2.  

I totally agree with this problem, and I suffer from it after upgrading
my Crunchbang Linux to Devuan Jessie. Lots of applications are broken
because they now use gtk3 and themes are not compatible.
Even if the applications would support gtk2, you have to compile them
your own, because binary dsitributions with Gnome support link all the
applications againt gtk3.
I tend to leave Linux as a dekstop system, use it only for my headless
server systems. The Linux desktop is broken! :-(

The next step after "no systemd" should be "no gnome".

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):

> Unless you live in the past (I've already migrated even production systems
> from jessie -- upgrade to stretch is flawless so far), I have bad news: XFCE
> has in a good part already migrated to GTK3.

Ah.  I was just going by postings to the xfce4-dev mailing list, and 
doubtless overinterpreting the terse comments there.  Thanks.

Well, it'll be interesting seeing how long that situation persists.

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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 12:06:49AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting goli...@dyne.org (goli...@dyne.org):
> > On 2017-02-21 17:20, aitor_czr wrote:
> 
> > I'm not a fan of anything adwaita but we may not have many choices
> > for gtk3 compatible themes going forward.  This explains a lot of
> > what's going on:
> > 
> > https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/

Yeah, Gnome3 and GTK3 are beyond abysmal, but...

> Xfce4 is an interesting case.  For now, Xfce4's happily relying on gtk+2,
> but eventually the devs will be forced to either fork and maintain it
> themselves or migrate.  For the last few months, there have been some
> very tentative coding efforts to port parts of the desktop to gtk+3
> (archives at https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev), but
> we'll have to see whether they maintain course as they work through the
> problems.

Unless you live in the past (I've already migrated even production systems
from jessie -- upgrade to stretch is flawless so far), I have bad news: XFCE
has in a good part already migrated to GTK3.

Which, in a theme thread, means you have no choice but to get a combined
GTK2+GTK3 theme.  This is a pain as most good themes are GTK2 only, and those
with a GTK3 component need to be reworked every time GTK3's minor version
changes (no backwards compat at all).


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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[Rick Moen]

Quoting goli...@dyne.org (goli...@dyne.org):

> On 2017-02-21 17:20, aitor_czr wrote:

> I'm not a fan of anything adwaita but we may not have many choices
> for gtk3 compatible themes going forward.  This explains a lot of
> what's going on:
> 
> https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/

Several of IgnorantGuru's blog posts from around that time speak to the 
greatly increased GNOME lock-in that has plagued the gkt+3 series, 
in sharp contrast to gtk+2.  

I've been looking around for a single clear, _short_ piece I can point 
people to, detailing this problem -- particularly when I'm addressing
admirers of meritorious DEs like Xfce4 that (for now) are reliant on 
gtk+3 development.  I think I've found an OK one here:

https://www.gadgetdaily.xyz/a-linux-conspiracy-theory/

The 'conspiracy theory' framing is unfortunate as many readers largely
discount material so characterised.  Perhaps the editors of Linux User &
Developer magazine applied that gloss to the piece.

That aside, this might be the best thing I can point users to, to
justify my inference that DE defection from gtk to Qt has been a general
trend for several years for (among other things) the reasons detailed
there.  See, most notably, LXDE and Razor-Qt joining forces and moving
to Qt 5.0 for their joint 'LXQt' DE..

Xfce4 is an interesting case.  For now, Xfce4's happily relying on gtk+2,
but eventually the devs will be forced to either fork and maintain it
themselves or migrate.  For the last few months, there have been some
very tentative coding efforts to port parts of the desktop to gtk+3
(archives at https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev), but
we'll have to see whether they maintain course as they work through the
problems.

Meanwhile, I've added a link from my 'Dept. of Web-Search Juice' on the
front page of http://linuxmafia.com/ to above-cited URL with anchor text
'gtk3 GNOME dependency'.  Anyone know a better piece?  If so, please 
speak up.

> Neither am I a fan of flat highlights because it's difficult to
> visually separate items in a block hilight.
> 
> BTW, I just dropped the theme in /usr/share/themes. No need to put
> it in /root
> 
> I didn't poke around too much so there's likely stuff broken that I
> didn't see.  If takes a long time to find all those little bugs.
> 
> Appreciate your efforts.  I'll be trying to sort a theme for ascii
> myself before too long . . .
> 
> golinux
> 
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Re: [DNG] Gtk3-theme

[golinux]

On 2017-02-21 17:20, aitor_czr wrote:

Hi,

I'm working on a new gtk theme, based on the official Adwaita:

http://gnuinos.org/Devuan-Green/ [1] Copy the following hidden files:

  .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini

  .gtkrc-2.0

to:

   /root

And compare, for example, "synaptic" and "pdfchain" in ascii.

Cheers,

  Aitor.



Links:
--
[1] http://gnuinos.org/Devuan-Green/


--

Hi aitor,

The green you used in the Devuan-Green from July last year is closer to 
leafy - #8FAA00.  There is no green even close to the green in your 
current theme planned for devuan.  However note that the signature color 
for ascii has yet to be decided.  Long story . . .


The frame colors are much nicer in this current theme - lighter which is 
good.


There is no hilighting of selected items in synaptic and the title and 
menu bar are broken.  That could be because I'm on jessie not ascii.


I'm not a fan of anything adwaita but we may not have many choices for 
gtk3 compatible themes going forward.  This explains a lot of what's 
going on:


https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/

Neither am I a fan of flat highlights because it's difficult to visually 
separate items in a block hilight.


BTW, I just dropped the theme in /usr/share/themes. No need to put it in 
/root


I didn't poke around too much so there's likely stuff broken that I 
didn't see.  If takes a long time to find all those little bugs.


Appreciate your efforts.  I'll be trying to sort a theme for ascii 
myself before too long . . .


golinux

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[DNG] Gtk3-theme

[aitor_czr]

Hi,

I'm working on a new gtk theme, based on the official Adwaita:

http://gnuinos.org/Devuan-Green/

Copy the following hidden files:

  .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini

  .gtkrc-2.0

to:

   /root

And compare, for example, "synaptic" and "pdfchain" in ascii.

Cheers,

  Aitor.




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