Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[mobinmob]

On 29/05/2018 01:00 πμ, Steve Litt wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 17:36:33 +0300
mobinmob  wrote:


On 28/05/2018 08:54 πμ, aitor wrote:

As i said in a recent thread, you can shutdown/reboot doing (it
requires granted permissions):

runit-init 0

runit-init 6

I'm working on a logout dialog for runit with suid permissions.

Cheers,

   Aitor.

You may want to look at the relevant utilities in void:
https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit

I use Void's runit every day (and the PID1 once every 5 to 30 days when
I reboot. I have the distinct impression that the Void folks made Runit
more complicated than it needs to be. In an effort to kinda-sorta
implement something like "runlevels" (which I never saw value in
anyway), they have symlinks to symlinks, to the point that it's hard to
know where the real file is.

This becomes a problem for me,  when I need to figure out exactly where
to put the one needed symlink (the one in the service directory) when I
add a daemon. So if anyone comes away from Void thinking runit is
complex, well, it *can* be but doesn't need to be.

SteveT

Steve Litt
June 2018 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Voidlinux runlevel configuration is exactly what the original author 
proposes (two runlevels, default and single):

http://smarden.org/runit/runlevels.html
The service "repo" is in /etc/sv, the symlinks to start/enable services 
go to /var/service.

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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Daniel Taylor]

Runlevels are one of those features that are hugely useful when doing 
development work, and useless almost everywhere else.


When I wasn't doing dev work I only use the default and S runlevels (or 
equivalent).


On 05/28/2018 05:00 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 17:36:33 +0300
mobinmob  wrote:


On 28/05/2018 08:54 πμ, aitor wrote:

As i said in a recent thread, you can shutdown/reboot doing (it
requires granted permissions):

runit-init 0

runit-init 6

I'm working on a logout dialog for runit with suid permissions.

Cheers,

   Aitor.

You may want to look at the relevant utilities in void:
https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit

I use Void's runit every day (and the PID1 once every 5 to 30 days when
I reboot. I have the distinct impression that the Void folks made Runit
more complicated than it needs to be. In an effort to kinda-sorta
implement something like "runlevels" (which I never saw value in
anyway), they have symlinks to symlinks, to the point that it's hard to
know where the real file is.

This becomes a problem for me,  when I need to figure out exactly where
to put the one needed symlink (the one in the service directory) when I
add a daemon. So if anyone comes away from Void thinking runit is
complex, well, it *can* be but doesn't need to be.

SteveT

Steve Litt
June 2018 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 28 May 2018 17:36:33 +0300
mobinmob  wrote:

> On 28/05/2018 08:54 πμ, aitor wrote:
> >
> > As i said in a recent thread, you can shutdown/reboot doing (it 
> > requires granted permissions):
> >
> > runit-init 0
> >
> > runit-init 6
> >
> > I'm working on a logout dialog for runit with suid permissions.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >   Aitor.  
> You may want to look at the relevant utilities in void:
> https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit

I use Void's runit every day (and the PID1 once every 5 to 30 days when
I reboot. I have the distinct impression that the Void folks made Runit
more complicated than it needs to be. In an effort to kinda-sorta
implement something like "runlevels" (which I never saw value in
anyway), they have symlinks to symlinks, to the point that it's hard to
know where the real file is.

This becomes a problem for me,  when I need to figure out exactly where
to put the one needed symlink (the one in the service directory) when I
add a daemon. So if anyone comes away from Void thinking runit is
complex, well, it *can* be but doesn't need to be.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
June 2018 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[14158]

Seems he has been acquitted:

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russias-tor-node-administrator-acquitted-terrorism-charges-61490

On 28.05.2018 16:36, mobinmob wrote:

On 28/05/2018 08:54 πμ, aitor wrote:


As i said in a recent thread, you can shutdown/reboot doing (it
requires granted permissions):

runit-init 0

runit-init 6

I'm working on a logout dialog for runit with suid permissions.

Cheers,

Aitor.

 You may want to look at the relevant utilities in void:
 https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit [1]

Links:
--
[1] https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit

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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[aitor_czr]

El 28/05/18 a las 16:36, mobinmob escribió:

You may want to look at the relevant utilities in void:
https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit

_
_Thanks for the link.

  Aitor._

_
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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[mobinmob]

On 28/05/2018 08:54 πμ, aitor wrote:


As i said in a recent thread, you can shutdown/reboot doing (it 
requires granted permissions):


runit-init 0

runit-init 6

I'm working on a logout dialog for runit with suid permissions.

Cheers,

  Aitor.

You may want to look at the relevant utilities in void:
https://github.com/voidlinux/void-runit
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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[aitor]

Hi John,

On 27/10/17 11:29, John Hughes wrote:
Debian's runit maintainer, Dmitry Bogatov, was arrested, accused of 
"preparing to organize mass disorder" and making "public calls for 
terrorist activit".  He runs a TOR exit node and is accused of posting 
things that were probably posted by some other TOR user.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/04/access-now-and-eff-condemn-arrest-tor-node-operator-dmitry-bogatov-russia 





Like in the Stalin's days gone by. I missed this new, i'll read it in 
detail today.



The last time I downloaded, compiled and installed
runit it worked just fine.
The problem is with runit-init, not runit.  runit is still in Debian 
(and, hence, Devuan).


The problem is Debian bug 861536 -- installing runit-init makes it 
impossible to shutdown or reboot until the next boot. 


As i said in a recent thread, you can shutdown/reboot doing (it requires 
granted permissions):


runit-init 0

runit-init 6

I'm working on a logout dialog for runit with suid permissions.

Cheers,

  Aitor.





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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi,

m712 writes:

> On October 28, 2017 11:22:49 AM GMT+03:00, Rick Moen  
> wrote:
>>(But sure, fixing the runit-init package
>>would be a nice-to-have.)
> I have a proposal for this. Basically, have an install script which does 
> something like this (I'm not familiar with the Debian packaging scripts so 
> assume it's sh):

Install scripts should not assume anything wrt the shell they're using
when OR explicitly state what shell they expect (and where necessary add
an appropriate Pre-Depends).  In practice, it's easier to fix your
install script to be /bin/sh compatible.

On Debian/Devuan, /bin/sh defaults to dash.

> # if upgrading, this doesn't run
> if [ "$(pgrep runit -o)" != "1" ]; then
>   mv -f /sbin/shutdown{,.old}
>   mv -f /sbin/reboot{,.old}

Those are bashisms and won't work with dash

  olaf@quark:~$ /bin/sh
  $ mv test{,.new}
  mv: missing destination file operand after ‘test{,.new}’
  Try 'mv --help' for more information.

So, stop trying to be smart ;-) and just say

  mv -f /sbin/shutdown /sbin/shutdown.old
  mv -f /sbin/reboot /sbin/reboot.old

or

  for f in /sbin/shutdown /sbin/reboot; do
mv -f $f $f.old
  done

or something.

Moreover, I think something like this would be better handled using
Debian's alternatives mechanism.  See `man update-alternatives` for
details.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
 Join the Free Software Foundation  https://my.fsf.org/join
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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[m712]

On October 28, 2017 11:22:49 AM GMT+03:00, Rick Moen  
wrote:
>(But sure, fixing the runit-init package
>would be a nice-to-have.)
I have a proposal for this. Basically, have an install script which does 
something like this (I'm not familiar with the Debian packaging scripts so 
assume it's sh):

# if upgrading, this doesn't run
if [ "$(pgrep runit -o)" != "1" ]; then
  mv -f /sbin/shutdown{,.old}
  mv -f /sbin/reboot{,.old}
fi

And then /sbin/reboot and /sbin/shutdown should point to a shell script like 
this:

if [ "$(pgrep runit -o)" != "1" ]; then
  exec "$0.old" $*
else
  if [ -e "$0.old" ]; then
rm "$0.old"
fi; fi

# ...do shutdown/reboot the runit way...

I don't think it's the best way of doing this, but I guess it'd work.
--- :^) --- :^) --- :^) --- :^) --- :^) --- :^) --- :^) --- :^) ---
https://nextchan.org - https://gitgud.io/m712/blazechan
I am awake between 7AM-12AM UTC, hit me up if something's wrong

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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Rick Moen]

Quoting John Hughes (j...@atlantech.com):

Just a note to say you strike me as saying useful and constructive
things, for which my thanks.  I wish some other good and valued folks,
bless them one and all, were a bit less quick to pick a fight.  There
are much more interesting things to discuss.


[snippity snip of your useful s6 comments]

> You don't have to make a runit package for Debian/Devuan --  it
> exists already.
> 
> What is missing is the runit-init package, i.e. runit as pid 1,
> which was removed as nobody had the time to fix bug 861536.

This is something that's had previous discussion here, FWIW.

> I guess Devuan could just live with the bug, or declare it fixed by
> documenting it.
> 
> Or someone who was interested could fix it and get runit-init back
> into Debian (and, therefore) Devuan.

A third (additional) alternative has been mentioned in prior
discussions:  A variety of other inits can, instead, fill the PID1
role.  Even SysVInit's PID1 process doesn't have (IMO) a lot wrong with
it.  Its deficiencies primarily lie in the init system.

I'll also note in passing that Debian bug 861536 in no way prevents use
of runit's codebase as PID 1.  (See comment #89 on that bug.)  It merely
prevents doing so solely using package operations using the runit-init
_package_.  

One might say:  That is more than nothing, but far less than everything.
Which is to say:  For people of even modest sysadmin abilities, the
problem is small beer indeed.  (But sure, fixing the runit-init package
would be a nice-to-have.)

(I do not speak for Devuan, Debian, or any other distribution in the
foregoing.  On a good day, I speak for my grumpy orange cat, but not
when she's in a particular mood.)

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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[John Hughes]

On 28/10/17 03:45, Steve Litt wrote:


I'm the original poster of the thread renamed "Runit for Devuan", and I
don't understand this email at all. What does a debian bug about s6
have to do with my offer to be one of a two person team to bring a
runit package to Devuan?



You said


> s6's maintainer is on the job every day improving s6, and once again,
> someone who knows how to build Devuan package plus me plus a little bit
> of guidance from s6' upstream would produce a Devuan package.


The Debian bug I quoted was a RFP (request for pakage) for s6, it was 
the closest I could find to a s6 package.  Since then I've found:


 https://github.com/lwf/s6-packaging

Which is the stuff necessary for a s6 .deb

Note that, as far as I know, this doesn't provide enough stuff for using 
s6 as pid 1.



By the way, anyone here good at Devuan packaging and also would like a
runit package? I could probably put together a Devuan/runit Vagrant
file, from which we could make a package.


You don't have to make a runit package for Debian/Devuan --  it exists 
already.


What is missing is the runit-init package, i.e. runit as pid 1, which 
was removed as nobody had the time to fix bug 861536.


I guess Devuan could just live with the bug, or declare it fixed by 
documenting it.


Or someone who was interested could fix it and get runit-init back into 
Debian (and, therefore) Devuan.


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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 19:34:52 -0400
zap  wrote:

> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=733915
> >
> > Only a RFP, not an ITP.
> >
> > Everyone wants somebody else to do the work.  
> Truthfully, some don't know how to do to the work... also.

I'm the original poster of the thread renamed "Runit for Devuan", and I
don't understand this email at all. What does a debian bug about s6
have to do with my offer to be one of a two person team to bring a
runit package to Devuan?

By the way, anyone here good at Devuan packaging and also would like a
runit package? I could probably put together a Devuan/runit Vagrant
file, from which we could make a package.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[John Hughes]

Oh, yes, the last thing in the runit changelog is:

runit (2.1.2-9.2) unstable; urgency=medium

  * non-maintainer upload
  * re-add /sbin/runit{,-init} to runit package so it remains possible to
use runit as PID 1

 -- Daniel Kahn Gillmor   Wed, 31 May 2017 12:44:38 
-0400

So the runit-init package no longer exists, but if you want to use runit 
as init you can do it manually.


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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[John Hughes]

On 27/10/17 07:29, Steve Litt wrote:

U mean runit's author/upstream maintainer, or do you mean Debian's
maintainer for runit? Where does this information come from?


Debian's runit maintainer, Dmitry Bogatov, was arrested, accused of 
"preparing to organize mass disorder" and making "public calls for 
terrorist activit".  He runs a TOR exit node and is accused of posting 
things that were probably posted by some other TOR user.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/04/access-now-and-eff-condemn-arrest-tor-node-operator-dmitry-bogatov-russia


The last time I downloaded, compiled and installed
runit it worked just fine.
The problem is with runit-init, not runit.  runit is still in Debian 
(and, hence, Devuan).


The problem is Debian bug 861536 -- installing runit-init makes it 
impossible to shutdown or reboot until the next boot.


('cos runit-init removes the running inits shutdown/reboot logic and 
installs its own, but the current init is still running and so the 
runit-init versions of shutdown/reboot don't work).




If there's a problem with Debian's runit maintainer, no sweat:
Pair me up with somebody who is good with making packages, and
we'll create a Devuan runit package much better than Debian's old
one (which was kind of difficult the last time I tried it).


Your first job would be to fix bug 861536.  If you can do that maybe you 
could get runit-init back into Debian.



If runit's author/upstream author has had bad stuff happen to him to th
extent that runit isn't trusted anymore, s6 is a fairly close
replacement: A little more complex and a little more capable. AFAIK
s6's maintainer is on the job every day improving s6, and once again,
someone who knows how to build Devuan package plus me plus a little bit
of guidance from s6' upstream would produce a Devuan package.


https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=733915

Only a RFP, not an ITP.

Everyone wants somebody else to do the work.

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[DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 23:38:27 +0200
Adam Borowski  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 04:18:12PM -0400, zap wrote:
> > I only wish runit-init was still on the debian repo. or in the
> > devuan repo at least...  
> 
> It was kicked out from stretch because something bad happened to its
> maintainer (he still hasn't recovered and then he'll probably have
> more important things to do) -- and no one volunteered to fix the RC
> bug.  I did even ask here on this list, but alas, I did not help
> either.
> 
> No one has stepped up to fix runit-init and restore it since then.

U mean runit's author/upstream maintainer, or do you mean Debian's
maintainer for runit? Where does this information come from? I haven't
read any such thing. The last time I downloaded, compiled and installed
runit it worked just fine. Where did you read about this problem with
the (which) maintainer?

If there's a problem with Debian's runit maintainer, no sweat:
Pair me up with somebody who is good with making packages, and
we'll create a Devuan runit package much better than Debian's old
one (which was kind of difficult the last time I tried it). 

If runit's author/upstream author has had bad stuff happen to him to th
extent that runit isn't trusted anymore, s6 is a fairly close
replacement: A little more complex and a little more capable. AFAIK
s6's maintainer is on the job every day improving s6, and once again,
someone who knows how to build Devuan package plus me plus a little bit
of guidance from s6' upstream would produce a Devuan package.

Who on this list is an apt packaging ninja and wants to work on this
with me?

SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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