Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 11:54:09AM +0100, Svante Signell wrote: > On Fri, 2018-01-05 at 07:55 +0100, Andreas Messer wrote: > > Hi Adam, > > > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 11:44:25PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > > > [...] > > > Thus: could you guys please prioritize work on elogind or some > > > alternative? > > > > Just started yesterday: https://git.devuan.org/amesser/elogind. There was > > already some work by shwsh but that seem to be stalled. (All the devuan > > packet stuff is missing there as well.) > > > > Depends on my time, but I think I will have a basic setup running with > > sysv init script within the next week. I have to sort out how to handle > > openrc > > because this is a compile time setting in elogind. Maybe i have to build > > different packages. > > As I wrote on IRC I'm willing to help you with packagin of elogind. One > confusing thing of elogind is that there exists three repos on github: Sorry, din't see that. > https://github.com/elogind/elogind > https://github.com/wingo/elogind > https://github.com/shwsh/elogind > Which one did you pull from? The shwsh fork's changes have been merged back into elogind. I'm currently using elogind as base, this is the original project and I think we should go with it. I didn't look at other forks. -- gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51 fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
Irrwahn wrote on 05.01.2018 08:32: [...] > From https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394 > I gather that it is possible to configure this in sd-logind, > so I simply assume the same holds for elogind as well. > > However, in message #256 in that same thread Martin Steigerwald > asserts that this setting breaks shutdown (in the sense of not > behaving exactly the way it used to with sysvinit). Will elogind > suffer from the same regression, or will that issue be taken > care of? After reading the elogind README once again, I think the following quote actually answers my question: + | For shutdown, reboot, and kexec, elogind shells out to "halt", | "reboot",and "kexec" binaries. + AIUI, elogind calls "halt", which in turn would call "shutdown", which executes the equivalent of "init 0". Thus, assuming PID1 is SysV-init, the traditional behavior would be preserved, correct? Urban -- Sapere aude! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Fri, 2018-01-05 at 07:55 +0100, Andreas Messer wrote: > Hi Adam, > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 11:44:25PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > > [...] > > Thus: could you guys please prioritize work on elogind or some alternative? > > Just started yesterday: https://git.devuan.org/amesser/elogind. There was > already some work by shwsh but that seem to be stalled. (All the devuan > packet stuff is missing there as well.) > > Depends on my time, but I think I will have a basic setup running with > sysv init script within the next week. I have to sort out how to handle openrc > because this is a compile time setting in elogind. Maybe i have to build > different packages. As I wrote on IRC I'm willing to help you with packagin of elogind. One confusing thing of elogind is that there exists three repos on github: https://github.com/elogind/elogind https://github.com/wingo/elogind https://github.com/shwsh/elogind Which one did you pull from? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 08:32:10AM +0100, Irrwahn wrote: > [...] > Having that out of the way: First off, I appreciate any effort > made in that direction! However, I have one question I deem > important, namely: Will elogind display the same behavior as > systemd-logind regarding killing long running processes upon > user logout? IMNSHO it should not, i.e. it should follow the > principle of least surprise by not killing background user > processes on logout. > > From https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394 > I gather that it is possible to configure this in sd-logind, > so I simply assume the same holds for elogind as well. elogind has same behavior and configuration options as systemd's logind. So it has an option where this behavior can be enabled or disabled. BUT: I had a short look into the source. It seems that the killing is implemented by sending a dbus request to systemd to stop a unit. I dont know if systemd-shim implement the StopUnit interface at all? cheers, Andreas -- gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51 fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 08:44:55AM +, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 09:33:43AM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > > Simon McVittie said: > > > > # Now that we have versioned Provides, > > # one way to achieve that might be for implementations of the logind API > > # to add Provides: logind (= v) where v is the version of systemd whose > > # logind API is implemented (currently 219 for elogind and 236 for systemd), > > # and for depending packages to depend on [...] > > # default-logind | logind (>= v) (with default-logind > > # provided by libpam-systemd on Debian) > > > > That would definitely be a great solution, indeed. And would avoid a > lot of useless work to Devuan and to other distros. In particular the > latter proposal is very interesting, since it would allow a drop-in > replacement of systemd-logind based on letting elogind Provides: > default-logind > > If there is anything we can do to support the inclusion of that > Provides in Debian, please let us know. Working elogind package[s], it seems. Something fit for experimental would allow replacing dependencies in individual packages that want logind. And once that's tested, -shim could be sent to a nice pasture. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 09:33:43AM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: [cut] > Simon McVittie said: > > # It looks as though elogind is a fork of systemd-logind with reduced > # functionality, no dependency on systemd as pid 1, and logind's D-Bus API > # (so, basically systemd-shim done right), so it should be possible for > # most of those to talk to elogind's logind-compatible API without code > # changes (via libsystemd, even). Now that we have versioned Provides, > # one way to achieve that might be for implementations of the logind API > # to add Provides: logind (= v) where v is the version of systemd whose > # logind API is implemented (currently 219 for elogind and 236 for systemd), > # and for depending packages to depend on libpam-systemd (>= v) | logind > # (>= v), or even on default-logind | logind (>= v) (with default-logind > # provided by libpam-systemd on Debian) to be nice to anti-systemd > # derivatives. Obviously >= v can be omitted if recent logind features > # are not required. > > which sounds like a good solution to me. > > That would definitely be a great solution, indeed. And would avoid a lot of useless work to Devuan and to other distros. In particular the latter proposal is very interesting, since it would allow a drop-in replacement of systemd-logind based on letting elogind Provides: default-logind If there is anything we can do to support the inclusion of that Provides in Debian, please let us know. Thanks KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 07:52:07AM +, KatolaZ wrote: > elogind has been in Devuan's radar for quite a while, and I guess will > become a priority just after ASCII gets out. I have not studied it in > depth, but my understanding is that the most promising path would be > to let it become a drop-in replacement to systemd-logind, e.g. by > letting it Provides: SOMETHING. This is somwhow different from the > case of udev/eudev since there is no independent Debian package (so > far) for logind, and I don't know if there is a specific capability > that can be used in a Provides: . Maybe you have a better knowledge on > that. Simon McVittie said: # It looks as though elogind is a fork of systemd-logind with reduced # functionality, no dependency on systemd as pid 1, and logind's D-Bus API # (so, basically systemd-shim done right), so it should be possible for # most of those to talk to elogind's logind-compatible API without code # changes (via libsystemd, even). Now that we have versioned Provides, # one way to achieve that might be for implementations of the logind API # to add Provides: logind (= v) where v is the version of systemd whose # logind API is implemented (currently 219 for elogind and 236 for systemd), # and for depending packages to depend on libpam-systemd (>= v) | logind # (>= v), or even on default-logind | logind (>= v) (with default-logind # provided by libpam-systemd on Debian) to be nice to anti-systemd # derivatives. Obviously >= v can be omitted if recent logind features # are not required. which sounds like a good solution to me. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 11:44:25PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > Hi! > It looks like there's a chance to improve !systemd in Debian proper, which > would greatly reduce your diff and the risk that one day you'd need to patch > thousands of packages. It'd require knowing how to handle stuff that > currently requires logind. > > Thus: could you guys please prioritize work on elogind or some alternative? > > I'm sadly not knowledgeable about logind enough to do such evaluation on my > own; doing enough learning to be competent costs a lot of time -- and, as I > understand, you folks are going to do this anyway. It'd be great if I could > mooch on your work. > > The sooner -shim gets killed and replaced, the better chance that buster is > an adequate base for beowulf. > > > Meow! Dear Adam, elogind has been in Devuan's radar for quite a while, and I guess will become a priority just after ASCII gets out. I have not studied it in depth, but my understanding is that the most promising path would be to let it become a drop-in replacement to systemd-logind, e.g. by letting it Provides: SOMETHING. This is somwhow different from the case of udev/eudev since there is no independent Debian package (so far) for logind, and I don't know if there is a specific capability that can be used in a Provides: . Maybe you have a better knowledge on that. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
Andreas Messer wrote on 05.01.2018 07:55: > Hi Adam, > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 11:44:25PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: >> [...] >> Thus: could you guys please prioritize work on elogind or some alternative? > > Just started yesterday: https://git.devuan.org/amesser/elogind. There was > already some work by shwsh but that seem to be stalled. (All the devuan > packet stuff is missing there as well.)[...] DISCLAIMER: My knowledge in this area is rather limited, so please bear with me! Having that out of the way: First off, I appreciate any effort made in that direction! However, I have one question I deem important, namely: Will elogind display the same behavior as systemd-logind regarding killing long running processes upon user logout? IMNSHO it should not, i.e. it should follow the principle of least surprise by not killing background user processes on logout. From https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394 I gather that it is possible to configure this in sd-logind, so I simply assume the same holds for elogind as well. However, in message #256 in that same thread Martin Steigerwald asserts that this setting breaks shutdown (in the sense of not behaving exactly the way it used to with sysvinit). Will elogind suffer from the same regression, or will that issue be taken care of? In case this were trivial questions with obvious answers: Sorry for wasting your time! Best regards Urban -- Sapere aude! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
Hi Adam, On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 11:44:25PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > [...] > Thus: could you guys please prioritize work on elogind or some alternative? Just started yesterday: https://git.devuan.org/amesser/elogind. There was already some work by shwsh but that seem to be stalled. (All the devuan packet stuff is missing there as well.) Depends on my time, but I think I will have a basic setup running with sysv init script within the next week. I have to sort out how to handle openrc because this is a compile time setting in elogind. Maybe i have to build different packages. cheers, Andreas -- gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51 fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] request: please evaluate/provide elogind-or-other ASAP
Hi! It looks like there's a chance to improve !systemd in Debian proper, which would greatly reduce your diff and the risk that one day you'd need to patch thousands of packages. It'd require knowing how to handle stuff that currently requires logind. Thus: could you guys please prioritize work on elogind or some alternative? I'm sadly not knowledgeable about logind enough to do such evaluation on my own; doing enough learning to be competent costs a lot of time -- and, as I understand, you folks are going to do this anyway. It'd be great if I could mooch on your work. The sooner -shim gets killed and replaced, the better chance that buster is an adequate base for beowulf. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
