Re: [DNG] Distrowatch user satisfaction stats

[Steve Litt]

goli...@devuan.org said on Fri, 21 May 2021 14:29:14 -0500

>I was poking around distrowatch (I don't very often) and found a page 
>which ranks Linux distros according to user ratings.
>
>Devuan is #2! Arch is #1 and Debian and the 'buntus (and other
>"popular distros) are further down the page:
>https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ranking
>
>If you're interested, you can read the reviews on which that ranking
>was based at:
>https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ratings=devuan
>
>We must be doing something right!!  :D

Remember when the media and the systemd fanboiz said the VUAs were just
bluffing? Remember after the corrupt GR Devuan's message was "Don't
panic and keep on forking?" #2 on Distrowatch's ratings list is
something to be proud of.

Also to be pointed out: Five of the top ten distros init without
systemd. The next time a fanboy says everyone uses systemd, remind him
of this. Of course he'll say that Devuan is waaay down the list of
DistroWatch's list sorted by downloads, and you can counter that many of
those downloads were experimental, and the list according to ratings is
much more likely to include people who actually installed and use the
OS.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch user satisfaction stats

[Bernard Rosset via Dng]

To be honest, I never heard of distrowatch before.

There are 221 reviews on Devuan, though. 221!
People seem to know the place, and going full steam tu use it to share 
with the world!



We must be doing something right!!  :D


Taking Debian, which had solid basis in the past, and fixing the crap 
introduced by poor leadership and catastrophic GR?

Feels strange people eventually like the result, right? Oh, wait.

Kudos to all the quiet hard workers behind that success!

Bernard (Beer) Rosset
https://rosset.net/
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Didier Kryn]

Le 23/08/2016 09:02, KatolaZ a écrit :

I wouldn't be too much concerned about Internet polls. In particular,
a scientifically sound poll should ask a single question at a time,
and not mix four questions like in this case:

- Have you tried Devuan?
- If not, do you plan to try it in the future?
- If yes, do you think it is ready to use?
- If it is not ready to use, how much work do you think is needed?


It doesn't respond to the following question: how many didn't 
answer the poll because they just don't care and they feel satisfied 
with Systemd or Windows?


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 06:27:58PM +, Go Linux wrote:
> Looks like the second poll has ended.  There's a new one up today and voting 
> is no longer an option.  Here are the final results:
> 
> Poll results for: The state of Devuan
> 
> I have tried Devuan and it is ready to use:   95 (27%)
> I have tried Devuan and it needs a little more work:  45 (13%)
> I have tried Devuan and it needs lots more work:  19 (5%)
> I have not yet tried Devuan but plan to later:90 (25%)
> I have not yet tried Devuan and have no plans to try it:  107 (30%)

The important ones are, of course, the ones who have tried Devuan.  Most of 
those 
who have tried Devuan think it is ready to use. 

But we should try to accommodate that 13 %.

And what are the problems of the 5%. 

Unfortunately the poll doesn't give us this level of detail.

-- hendrik

> 
> Those results are actually better percentage wise than the ones that were 
> "lost".  Thanks to everyone who voted.
> 
> golinux
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Clarke Sideroad]

On 08/20/2016 05:02 AM, Didier Kryn wrote:



What can prevent a single person from voting multiple times? I have
voted - once only - but I think this kind of poll is, at the minimum,
terribly biased.



It probably only allows one per IP address per day.
So if you are on a dynamically assigned address... (-;

Polls traditionally get loaded by the questions asked and the targeted 
demographic.

The nature of the beast.

Clarke


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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Didier Kryn]

Le 20/08/2016 07:11, Peter Olson a écrit :

On August 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM Steve Litt  wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:06:24 -0400
fsmithred  wrote:


For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped,

I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
times because I'm originally from Chicago.

Boston has dibs on that as well.




What can prevent a single person from voting multiple times? I have 
voted - once only - but I think this kind of poll is, at the minimum, 
terribly biased.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):

> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:53:18 -0700
> Rick Moen  wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> > 
> > > I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> > > times because I'm originally from Chicago.  
> > 
> > I was able to vote while eating BBQ because I'm visiting Kansas City.
> 
> Go to Santa Maria California and get a "tritip" from one of the local
> street vendors.

It's only a 385 km bicycle ride from home.  I'll get right on that!

(I did vote in the Distrowatch poll, saying, truthfully, 'I have not yet
tried Devuan but plan to later.'  Which position I see is at a
respectable 23%, with 53 votes.)
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:53:18 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> 
> > I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> > times because I'm originally from Chicago.  
> 
> I was able to vote while eating BBQ because I'm visiting Kansas City.

Go to Santa Maria California and get a "tritip" from one of the local
street vendors.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Peter Olson]

> On August 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:06:24 -0400
> fsmithred  wrote:
> 
> > For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped,
> 
> I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> times because I'm originally from Chicago.

Boston has dibs on that as well.

Peter Olson
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):

> I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
> times because I'm originally from Chicago.

I was able to vote while eating BBQ because I'm visiting Kansas City.

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):

> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?

How does that not describe just about every Internet poll, ever?

I did, though, rather like what the government of Hungary did about
Stephen Colbert fans brigading the Internet poll to rename the Northern
M0 Danube Bridge between Buda and Pest:  Hungarian Ambassador András
Simonyi appeared on The Colbert Report (Colbert's comedic television
programme) to congratulate Mr. Colbert on placing first with 17 million
votes (the entire population of Hungary being about 10M), but deadpanned
that Hungarian law imposed a couple of additional requirements:

One, he said Colbert would need to be fluent in Hungarian.  Two, once
that minor problem was addressed, Mr. Colbert would need to be
_deceased_.

A fortnight later, the Hungarian Geographical Name Committee decided to
ignore the poll and name the bridge 'Megyeri' on grounds of it
connecting the  Káposztásmegyer and Békásmegyer districts.

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Edward Bartolo]

What does it mean "little" and "lots" of work? Words like "little"and
"lots" are too subjective. Although DEVUAN may be a works in progress,
many like me have been using it as their production OS for a whole
year. An OS can never be ready. Is MS Windows ready? Does it have
outstanding bugs? Is everyone satisfied with MS Windows GUI? I am
asking about MS Windows, but my questions can be asked about all
operating systems, open and closed.

Popularity and polls are intimately related as popularity often shapes
the result of polls. Does it make any difference if the masses out
there reject DEVUAN or not? DEVUAN is the result of rejecting systemd
which was created to make things easier for the masses. A good survey
would be one that specifically asks system administrators. Is DEVUAN
being adopted to power servers? Do server administrators prefer to
have systemd dependent OSs powering their machines? Is DEVUAN being
used as a base for other distributions?

Please take popular polls that appeal to the masses with a pinch of salt.

Edward


-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Albert Einstein
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 8/19/16, fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, August 19, 2016, 1:06 PM

On 08/19/2016 01:31 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:55:49 + (UTC)
>> Go Linux <goli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
>>>   
>>
>>> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would
>>> depend whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why
>>> shouldn't it be those of us supporting Devuan?
>>>
>>> golinux
>>
>> Well said!
>>
>> Whether it's intentional sabotage or ballot stuffing, I'm a lot more
>> likely to retain a high sense of dignity and ethics if my opponents are
>> playing by the rules.
>>
>> Or, as one of the characters in "Lucifer's Hammer" says toward the end
>> of the book, "A society adopts the ethics they can afford."
>>
>> SteveT
>>
 ___

> For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped, what I
> recall is that around half said they would never try it, a quarter said
> they'd try it later.
> 
> Among those who had tried it, three times as many said it was ready than
> said it needed a lot of work. And those who said in needed a little work
> were between the other two groups.
> 
> For raw numbers, the only one I remember is that 12 said it was ready. I'm
> a little slow with math, so I'll stop here.
> 
> -fsr

That last number was at least 120 - maybe a typo?   My click was #70!

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:06:24 -0400
fsmithred  wrote:

> For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped,

I just voted again, "ready to use" again. I'm able to vote multiple
times because I'm originally from Chicago.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt
August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
  Brand new, second edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[fsmithred]

On 08/19/2016 01:31 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:55:49 + (UTC)
> Go Linux  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski  wrote:
> 
>>> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
>>>   
>>
>> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would
>> depend whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why
>> shouldn't it be those of us supporting Devuan?
>>
>> golinux
> 
> Well said!
> 
> Whether it's intentional sabotage or ballot stuffing, I'm a lot more
> likely to retain a high sense of dignity and ethics if my opponents are
> playing by the rules.
> 
> Or, as one of the characters in "Lucifer's Hammer" says toward the end
> of the book, "A society adopts the ethics they can afford."
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt
> August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
>   Brand new, second edition
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
> ___

For anyone who's interested in the results before they got wiped, what I
recall is that around half said they would never try it, a quarter said
they'd try it later.

Among those who had tried it, three times as many said it was ready than
said it needed a lot of work. And those who said in needed a little work
were between the other two groups.

For raw numbers, the only one I remember is that 12 said it was ready. I'm
a little slow with math, so I'll stop here.

-fsr


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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Nate Bargmann]

I chose the second option as it does need a bit more work WRT Network
Manager a few small nits.  I'm confident these will be completed soon.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:55:49 + (UTC)
Go Linux  wrote:

> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski  wrote:

> > What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
> >   
> 
> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would
> depend whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why
> shouldn't it be those of us supporting Devuan?
> 
> golinux

Well said!

Whether it's intentional sabotage or ballot stuffing, I'm a lot more
likely to retain a high sense of dignity and ethics if my opponents are
playing by the rules.

Or, as one of the characters in "Lucifer's Hammer" says toward the end
of the book, "A society adopts the ethics they can afford."

SteveT

Steve Litt
August 2016 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting
  Brand new, second edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:55:49PM +, Go Linux wrote:
> On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Date: Friday, August 19, 2016, 2:13 AM
>  
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:21:24AM +, Go Linux wrote:
> 
> >> The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
> >> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - 
> >> went sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another 
> >> unrelated poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was 
> >> back to zero and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 
> >> 'lose' the original data.
> >>
> >> Time to go click again:
> >>
> >>  http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll
> >>
> >> Polls may not be important but still . . .
> > 
> > 
> > What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
> > 
> 
> 
> What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would depend 
> whether you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why shouldn't it be 
> those of us supporting Devuan?

That poll asks whether Devuan is ready.  It also asks separate 
questions of those using and not using Devuan.  It does look as if it 
is properly structured.

Go look and decide yourself.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 8/19/16, Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, August 19, 2016, 2:13 AM
 
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:21:24AM +, Go Linux wrote:

>> The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
>> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - 
>> went sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another 
>> unrelated poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was 
>> back to zero and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 
>> 'lose' the original data.
>>
>> Time to go click again:
>>
>>  http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll
>>
>> Polls may not be important but still . . .
> 
> 
> What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?
> 


What's the point of any poll or election?  I imagine that would depend whether 
you agree with those doing the 'stuffing'.  ;)  Why shouldn't it be those of us 
supporting Devuan?

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch Devuan poll do-over

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 01:21:24AM +, Go Linux wrote:
> The Distrowatch poll posted by Jim Murphy a few days ago - 
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160816.141551.cded4448.en.html - went 
> sideways this morning.  It was archived with results from another unrelated 
> poll.  I emailed to let them know and suddenly the odometer was back to zero 
> and there were about 15 votes.  So looks like they managed to 'lose' the 
> original data.
> 
> Time to go click again:
> 
>  http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160815#poll
> 
> Polls may not be important but still . . .

What's the point of a poll that's stuffed with votes from one side?

-- 
An imaginary friend squared is a real enemy.
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[miro . rovis]

On 151105-21:19-0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:18:42 +
> Nuno Magalhães  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:49 AM,   wrote:
> > >
> > > It is very unlikely that Gentoo would switch to systemd.
> > 
> > I sure hope so, it and slackware are my current distros of choice ever
> > since Debian ceased to be, it's been fun.
> > However, i must point out that Gentoo does have systemd as an option
> > and this, IMHO, is the best approach i've seen so far to this whole
> > conundrum: default OpenRC, optional (if you choose), systemd.
> > Everybody's happy.
> > 
> > As for distros that'll never ever change to systemd... look to the
> > past and see what happened.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Nuno
> 
> I'd start by booting a System Rescue CD CD,
the Gentoo based Live CD, that is.

> hopefully booting it to RAM
> so you can remove the CD.
Sure, that's the recommended way...

> Run it for a couple hours. If you hear any
> beeps, it's hardware. Otherwise it was software and you can start from
> there.
> 
> You really wouldn't want to start with an erroneous assumption as to
> whether it's hardware or software: That's the kind of thing that leads
> to day or week long efforts.
>
Probably that is the case. In fact I sure can take your word that it is.
I mostly agree with your opinions which I read in Devuan ML. You're
credible enough. (It probably depends on what you do with it, in my
minimal use, just backup and restore, if face cloning my systems, to be
truthful, I don't have those issues. But that does not mean I recommend
anything systemd-based.)

But it seems you present Sysresccd as a typical Gentoo install, and that
it reflect the acceptance if systemd in Gentoo, is that the case?

If it is, you are wrong (in your presenting of Sysresccd as being
typical for Gentoo).

Sysresccd is not recommended as a live system to use, to newbies in
Gentoo Installation guide, since a few years ago. It was previously,
maybe 5 or so years ago. Not anymore.

Regards!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Nuno Magalhães]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:23 AM,   wrote:
> On 151105-21:19-0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:18:42 +
>> Nuno Magalhães  wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:49 AM,   wrote:
>> > >
>> > > It is very unlikely that Gentoo would switch to systemd.
>> >
>> > I sure hope so, it and slackware are my current distros of choice ever
>> > since Debian ceased to be, it's been fun.
>> > However, i must point out that Gentoo does have systemd as an option
>> > and this, IMHO, is the best approach i've seen so far to this whole
>> > conundrum: default OpenRC, optional (if you choose), systemd.
>> > Everybody's happy.

...

>> I'd start by booting a System Rescue CD CD,
> the Gentoo based Live CD, that is.
>
>> hopefully booting it to RAM
>> so you can remove the CD.
> Sure, that's the recommended way...
>
>> Run it for a couple hours. If you hear any
>> beeps, it's hardware. Otherwise it was software and you can start from
>> there.

I'd say you guys are replying to the wrong thread (the laptop beeping
one, not this one?)..
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[miro . rovis]

On 151102-13:00-0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 21:57:23 +0800
> Robert Storey  wrote:
> 
> > > From: Nuno Magalhães 
> > >
> > > Unfortunately it only allows you to search by package, leaving you
> > > with a lot of non-linux and inactive distros - and no ranking.
> > > But it's a nice feature.
> > 
> > Yes, but biggest problem is that it misses some good non-systemd
> > distros like Gentoo and Manjaro-OpenRC because those do include the
> > systemd packages but it's use is optional.
> 
> Big difference between the preceding two. As far as I know, Gentoo has
> shown no reluctance to *eventually* switching to systemd.

It is very unlikely that Gentoo would switch to systemd. Study for
yourself the huge forum threads, such as:

Why is Gentoo not switching to systemd?
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-998108.html
(
pls. notice here the poll: 
I <3 systemd!! I want Gentoo to switch!!   12% [ 26 ]
Get that horse-crap away from Gentoo as far as possible!   87% [ 186 ]
)

Why is Gentoo not switching to systemd? Part 2
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1003784.html

The Politics of systemd
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-983808.html

The Politics of systemd Part 2
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1031982.html

> By its very
> existence, Manjaro-OpenRC has. Here are the distros I've heard of that
> have taken an absolute stand not to *ever* default to systemd:
> 
> * Devuan
> * Funtoo
> * Void Linux
> * And by context, Manjaro-OpenRC
>

So add Gentoo in the list above.

Believe me, a non-systemd Gentoo is I could almost say from my
experiencs, almost very close to perfection (I however use a kind of
minimalist install: I hate and never intend to use in any way in my
system the *dbus*[**], the great partner to systemd in poetterizing FOSS
Linux).

That presented in defence of Gentoo, you never know.

Such as: My most favorite, my most admired program in FOSS, the program
that I believe fixes the hooks for the one-ring cravers in the FOSS
Linux kernel introduced since the LSM, and which program, actually a set
of patches to the kernel, I dreamed of some day teaching newbies how to
deploy in their Devuan (as I have with success taught newbies in Devuan,
bafore the disgusting systemd took over Debian, has gone incompleteware:

the grsecurity

Read who is interested, since I do remeber, from some of my previous few
participations in the discussion here, that there are some devs[*] in
Devuan, who deploy grsecurity and know the huge benefits of grsecurity:

Intel Subsidiary's Violations Made Grsec withdraw Stable?
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1031476.html

Regards!

[*] I'm just a somewhat advanced user only, so I won't participate much
in the discussion here.

[**] and I remember Jude C. Nelson wrote that *vdev* will not depend on
dbus, great to know!

-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Nuno Magalhães]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:49 AM,   wrote:
>
> It is very unlikely that Gentoo would switch to systemd.

I sure hope so, it and slackware are my current distros of choice ever
since Debian ceased to be, it's been fun.
However, i must point out that Gentoo does have systemd as an option
and this, IMHO, is the best approach i've seen so far to this whole
conundrum: default OpenRC, optional (if you choose), systemd.
Everybody's happy.

As for distros that'll never ever change to systemd... look to the
past and see what happened.

Cheers,
Nuno
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:18:42 +
Nuno Magalhães  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:49 AM,   wrote:
> >
> > It is very unlikely that Gentoo would switch to systemd.
> 
> I sure hope so, it and slackware are my current distros of choice ever
> since Debian ceased to be, it's been fun.
> However, i must point out that Gentoo does have systemd as an option
> and this, IMHO, is the best approach i've seen so far to this whole
> conundrum: default OpenRC, optional (if you choose), systemd.
> Everybody's happy.
> 
> As for distros that'll never ever change to systemd... look to the
> past and see what happened.
> 
> Cheers,
> Nuno

I'd start by booting a System Rescue CD CD, hopefully booting it to RAM
so you can remove the CD. Run it for a couple hours. If you hear any
beeps, it's hardware. Otherwise it was software and you can start from
there.

You really wouldn't want to start with an erroneous assumption as to
whether it's hardware or software: That's the kind of thing that leads
to day or week long efforts.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Dragan FOSS]

On 11/02/2015 07:00 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

Here are the distros I've heard of that
have taken an absolute stand not to*ever*  default to systemd:


If I may remind you ... Devuan  did not even exist when TRIOS was 
released :)


Dragan

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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Robert Storey]

> From: Nuno Magalhães 
>
> Unfortunately it only allows you to search by package, leaving you
> with a lot of non-linux and inactive distros - and no ranking.
> But it's a nice feature.

Yes, but biggest problem is that it misses some good non-systemd distros
like Gentoo and Manjaro-OpenRC because those do include the systemd
packages but it's use is optional.

Still, it's interesting to hear that so many visitors to DistroWatch are
interested in avoiding systemd. There is definitely an audience there for
Devuan, waiting with bated breath for version 1.0.

cheers,
Robert
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 21:57:23 +0800
Robert Storey  wrote:

> > From: Nuno Magalhães 
> >
> > Unfortunately it only allows you to search by package, leaving you
> > with a lot of non-linux and inactive distros - and no ranking.
> > But it's a nice feature.
> 
> Yes, but biggest problem is that it misses some good non-systemd
> distros like Gentoo and Manjaro-OpenRC because those do include the
> systemd packages but it's use is optional.

Big difference between the preceding two. As far as I know, Gentoo has
shown no reluctance to *eventually* switching to systemd. By its very
existence, Manjaro-OpenRC has. Here are the distros I've heard of that
have taken an absolute stand not to *ever* default to systemd:

* Devuan
* Funtoo
* Void Linux
* And by context, Manjaro-OpenRC

Even FreeBSD has had some systemd contemplation. Slackware has been
wishy-washy on the subject, from what I hear.

When considering one's next distro, some thought must be given to the
fact that just because a distro doesn't *currently* use systemd doesn't
mean that they won't switch.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2015 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:31:27 +0100
Dragan FOSS  wrote:

> On 11/02/2015 07:00 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > Here are the distros I've heard of that
> > have taken an absolute stand not to*ever*  default to systemd:
> 
> If I may remind you ... Devuan  did not even exist when TRIOS was 
> released :)
> 
> Dragan
> 

OK, add TRIOS to the list.


SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2015 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Nuno Magalhães]

Unfortunately it only allows you to search by package, leaving you
with a lot of non-linux and inactive distros - and no ranking.
But it's a nice feature.
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Re: [DNG] Distrowatch

[Go Linux]

Would be interesting to see the stats from the searches.   This could be added 
to the list:

http://refracta.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3=529

golinux



On Sat, 10/31/15, Don Wright  wrote:

 Subject: [DNG] Distrowatch
 To: "dng" 
 Date: Saturday, October 31, 2015, 12:16 PM
 
 Didn't see any mention of this little goodie, so enjoy:

In DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 632, 19 October 2015, in the News section
"Improving package searches", the editors dropped this tidbit:

" On a related note, we receive a lot of queries asking if there is a
  way to find distributions which do not include a specific package,
  particularly the systemd software. To find distributions which do not
  include a package, visit our Search page, select the package to be
  avoided and select Not in latest release from the drop-down box on the
  right. Then click Submit Query. A list of distributions which do not
  feature the package will be provided. "
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Re: [Dng] DistroWatch review of Manjaro-OpenRC

[Ángel Ramírez Isea]

Good review.

Testing it tomorrow.

El 2015-06-01 00:11, Robert Storey escribió:

Now that Ubuntu and Debian have decided to go over to the Dark Side
...
Feedback on the story is welcome (even negative feedback).

regards,
Robert


--
Saludos cordiales,

Ángel Ramírez Isea.
Usuario de Devuan y Canaima GNU / Linux # 460737.

Coordinador General.
Cooperativa Simón Rodríguez para el Conocimiento Libre, RS.
www.simonrodriguez.org.ve
(261) 524.55.93 -:- (426) 369.57.18
J-40294137-4
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Re: [Dng] DistroWatch review of Manjaro-OpenRC

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 12:11:08 +0800
Robert Storey robert.sto...@gmail.com wrote:

 Now that Ubuntu and Debian have decided to go over to the Dark Side
 (ie systemd), I've been looking for a replacement at least until
 Devuan is released. I believe it was Steve Litt who made a post
 suggesting that Manjaro-OpenRC was very good, so I checked it out.
 Long story made short, it is indeed very good and has now replaced
 Ubuntu on my desktop and laptop machines.

Manjaro-OpenRC occupies a time-honored role: It gives our developers
the breathing room to bring Devuan to perfection. It's where people can
go until Devuan is ready.

Of course, Manjaro-OpenRC is a wonderful product in and of itself, and
I'm friendly with several of the people there. Truth be told, the
reason I chose Devuan over Manjaro-OpenRC is because I view the Devuan
Community as being astonishingly astounding, and I want to be part of
it.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
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