Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Pretty predictably, the bill has been sent to wash-up (http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2260871/digital-economy-bill-wash). Basically that means that it's likely to be rail-roaded through, as predicted. So unless someone puts the brakes on and stops the relevant parts, (and they only have tomorrow to do it apparently), watch all the anti-piracy measures in the bill get circumvented, just as happened in France a few weeks ago. Oh, and by the way, legal purchases of media will now go down. Both the government and the media companies will get what they deserve out of this stupid bill.; a lot of angry customers and voters. Unfortunately, a hell of a lot of innocent people are going to be branded criminals along the way. Also, and I've only just found this out, independent creators are going to be extremely p*d off. Apparently Clause 43 allows the big media organisations, such as the BBC and news sites to use so-called orphaned works without having to make any effort to trace the owner of the copyright. Stand by to find your pictures in the newspapers and on the BBC website without attribution or payment. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:36:44 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: I'm not sure if you left out the sarcasm tags or whether you really believe Apologies - I did leave off the sarcasm tags. I think the 'trialing' is one aspect of the 'pirates'. The other is that those are the people who are 'into' the content to begin with. Often they will purchase the bits they like the most and will download things they don't feel are worth their money. That my experience anyway. -- Using Opera M2: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:11:48 +0100, Andrew Montgomery-Hurrell darkliq...@darkliquid.co.uk wrote: Thats essentially what DRM is. As it's already been proven, it is entirely ineffective. However, if they were free, time limited full songs would be a nice way of doing publicity and try before you buy. My personal opinion is that the industry needs to reform their entire pricing structure. Gone are the days people feel 'britney spears et al' require private jets and 50 bedroom mansions. Hows about we work out the price of a CD for everyone involved in the creation of each disk to earn a maximum of a £50,000 salary. Bets on CDs hitting a few pounds (or less) and piracy dropping to 'almost nothing'. Sadly there will still be some piracy. Same theory for games and movies. If the people involved only earned 'regular' salaries the costs of each disk would be much more reasonable. -- Using Opera M2: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Monday 05 Apr 2010, Robert Bronsdon wrote: My personal opinion is that the industry needs to reform their entire pricing structure. Gone are the days people feel 'britney spears et al' require private jets and 50 bedroom mansions. Hows about we work out the price of a CD for everyone involved in the creation of each disk to earn a maximum of a £50,000 salary. Apart from a few very big stars, the only people who make large sums of money out of music are the labels. Most of the artists get locked into very restrictive contracts and rely on gigs to get a living. That's why there is a fairly large movement amongst the artists who are also trying to change the business model of the music industry. I think that your formula is a bit difficult to put into practice. Personally, I have no problem if genuinely talented artists are able to make big money. What I object to is the rest of the music industry, who leech on their backs and get far more out of it than they put in. Now that the internet provides a direct channel between the artist and the consumer, I'm perfectly happy to buy direct from an artist's website. If they are really good, then the money will come and the really, really good, will make lots of money. The leeches will then have to make their money by providing a service to the artists, instead of the other way round. Bets on CDs hitting a few pounds (or less) and piracy dropping to 'almost nothing'. Sadly there will still be some piracy. Yes. There will always be piracy, because there will always be people who are inherently dishonest. However, given a fairer business model, where the worthy artists are given their rewards direct from the consumer, then it will become far less 'acceptable' to rip off music. Same theory for games and movies. If the people involved only earned 'regular' salaries the costs of each disk would be much more reasonable. Movies and games are a more difficult problem, because, you tend to need a pretty large organisation to produce them, especially the blockbusters. However, the returns at the moment are ridiculously high, well out of proportion to the effort expended. A more equitable business model is needed all round, but if I knew what it was I'd be rich :-) -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On 1 April 2010 17:36, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: On Thursday 01 Apr 2010, Robert Bronsdon wrote: On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:58 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: people who illegally download buy more music legally than those whodon't. *clearly* those people would spend even more if they weren't downloading illegally. I'm not sure if you left out the sarcasm tags or whether you really believe that. The theory is that illegal downloading is like payola without the bribes; people download music to see if they like it, they then go out to buy the music when they've selected what they want from all the ones that they've downloaded. People who don't illegally download on the other hand, are more cautious when buying because they don't know if they will like the music or not. If the theory is correct, then I would say that it's the modern equivalent of going into the local record shop and asking them to play a record before you buy it. That sounds about right to me Terry, so surely the solution for the music industry is obvious ... Time Limited Downloads. By this I mean a new file format that plays an embedded MP3, (or whatever), and kills / cripples itself after a pre-defined time, say a day or a week. If the user goes on to buy the item online, it should be possible to detect somehow that they had downloaded the Time Limited version and they could be given a discount on the full version as a reward for being legitimate. That would provide exactly the style of Try before you Buy that the theory says is happening, and would provide a whole host of new sales opportunities for the industry to boot ! -- Cheers Peter -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On 3 April 2010 13:49, Peter Washington pugwash1...@googlemail.com wrote: On 1 April 2010 17:36, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: On Thursday 01 Apr 2010, Robert Bronsdon wrote: On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:58 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: people who illegally download buy more music legally than those whodon't. *clearly* those people would spend even more if they weren't downloading illegally. I'm not sure if you left out the sarcasm tags or whether you really believe that. The theory is that illegal downloading is like payola without the bribes; people download music to see if they like it, they then go out to buy the music when they've selected what they want from all the ones that they've downloaded. People who don't illegally download on the other hand, are more cautious when buying because they don't know if they will like the music or not. If the theory is correct, then I would say that it's the modern equivalent of going into the local record shop and asking them to play a record before you buy it. That sounds about right to me Terry, so surely the solution for the music industry is obvious ... Time Limited Downloads. By this I mean a new file format that plays an embedded MP3, (or whatever), and kills / cripples itself after a pre-defined time, say a day or a week. If the user goes on to buy the item online, it should be possible to detect somehow that they had downloaded the Time Limited version and they could be given a discount on the full version as a reward for being legitimate. That would provide exactly the style of Try before you Buy that the theory says is happening, and would provide a whole host of new sales opportunities for the industry to boot ! Thats essentially what DRM is. As it's already been proven, it is entirely ineffective. However, if they were free, time limited full songs would be a nice way of doing publicity and try before you buy. It will never happen though because the DRM will be broken and everyone knows this. -- Andrew Montgomery-Hurrell Professional Geek Blog: http://darkliquid.co.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkliquid Fiction: http://www.protagonize.com/author/darkliquid -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Saturday 03 Apr 2010, Peter Washington wrote: That would provide exactly the style of Try before you Buy that the theory says is happening, and would provide a whole host of new sales opportunities for the industry to boot ! Yes. Every DRM that has been invented has been cracked in time. However, if a significant proportion of the people on the planet weren't inherently dishonest, DRM wouldn't be necessary. By the way, I include the media companies in the group 'inherently dishonest'. If they weren't so greedy and didn't keep trying to make us buy the same music, at inflated prices, every time we get a new playing device, then there would be less incentive to crack the DRM (and many people would be less inclined to use the cracked media). -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:58 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: people who illegally download buy more music legally than those whodon't. *clearly* those people would spend even more if they weren't downloading illegally. -- Using Opera M2: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On 01/04/2010 12:38, Robert Bronsdon wrote: On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:58 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: people who illegally download buy more music legally than those whodon't. *clearly* those people would spend even more if they weren't downloading illegally. It is actually not that clear! -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Thursday 01 Apr 2010, Robert Bronsdon wrote: On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:09:58 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: people who illegally download buy more music legally than those whodon't. *clearly* those people would spend even more if they weren't downloading illegally. I'm not sure if you left out the sarcasm tags or whether you really believe that. The theory is that illegal downloading is like payola without the bribes; people download music to see if they like it, they then go out to buy the music when they've selected what they want from all the ones that they've downloaded. People who don't illegally download on the other hand, are more cautious when buying because they don't know if they will like the music or not. If the theory is correct, then I would say that it's the modern equivalent of going into the local record shop and asking them to play a record before you buy it. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:33:05 +0100, Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk wrote: I realise that British justice is nowhere near as unjust as the US variety, It seems our current governing parties are envious though. -- Using Opera M2: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Thursday 25 Mar 2010, Sean Gibbins wrote: Apparently the LibDem ammendment to the bill was copied almost verbatim from a BPI document. http://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2010/bpi-drafted-web-blocking They can try all they like; all the evidence shows that they are flogging a dead horse: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/record-industry-ignore-that- french-piracy-study.ars Every time the media industry puts in place new measures to counteract the pirates, the pirates route round it. Not only that, they lose credibility and most of all, respect. As a result, even law-abiding citizens begin to believe that its OK to rip off copyrighted material, simply because they think the bigger crooks are the media industry. Just because you're a conspiracy theorist doesn't mean they are not conspiring... Yes. But who are they conspiring against? Another study that was quoted in the BBC programme on the bill said that people who illegally download buy more music legally than those who don't. They are biting off their nose to spite their face. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Tue, 2010-03-30 at 18:21 +0100, Terry Coles wrote: On Thursday 25 Mar 2010, Terry Coles wrote: Whatever the truth, here is what Annette Brooke (LibDem for Mid Dorset and Poole North) said to me in response to my letter through the 38 Degrees site: Thank you for your message calling for the Digital Economy Bill to receive proper parliamentary debate. Time is running out for the present Parliament and from today until Easter the Commons will be debating the Budget. I am watching the timetable for the Commons but at this stage it is not clear if the Bill will get a Second Reading in the Commons, although it is still possible.I am very concerned that the Bill should receive proper scrutiny and I will update you in due course.' I received that yesterday, presumably before the date for the debate was set. After the short note last week Annette Brooke sent a much much longer blanket message that the disclaimer in the footer said was confidential to the recipient (although it was BCCd to lots of people presumably). In essence is says that the LibDems are going to pass the bill pretty much as it is because there are lots of good things that are needed in it. To get the good; they are going to swallow the bad. What this means of course is that the bill has been framed to ensure that unpopular and unfair measures get forced through because no-one wants to railroad the good stuff. The message claimed that the LibDem amendments included some safeguards, including the following requirements: 1. copyright infringers are notified by letter, without any risk of their internet connection being affected, for at least a year 2. an evaluation of the effectiveness of such soft measures is undertaken 3. an evaluation of the need for, and likely effectiveness of, technical measures has been completed 4. further consultation has taken place 5. proposed legislation is brought before parliament for decision, and 6. any process to disconnect users explicitly assumes their innocence until they are proven guilty I suspect that on their own the LibDems can't achieve much anyway, so it remains to be seen how the bill works in practice. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/view/8357/digital-economy-bill-protests-spread-across-the-uk/ Peter M: -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Tuesday 30 Mar 2010, Peter Merchant wrote: http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/view/8357/digital-economy-bill-protest s-spread-across-the-uk/ Yes, but that report is nearly a week old, so the momentum has been lost. The LibDems were the only major party opposing the bill. Now they've decided to support it, it's a shoo-in, so it doesn't really matter how many protests there are. I just hope the LibDems are right and the process of kicking serial infringers will be fair and just. My worry is that we end up in the same situation as in the US where individuals get letters threatening legal action and have to decided between paying the money to the protection racketeers or facing years in court and the millions of $ that that entails, even if they win!. Even when the money for defence is provided pro bono (eg out of the coffers of some support organisation), the victim can get hammered (and that takes no account of the stress and time involved in the process). See http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleart_aid=124929 for a couple of examples, where the defendants had help and were still hit for huge damage awards. There was also the woman who had never used a computer who got successfully sued (the computer belonged to her late husband) and the 12 year old girl who got the threatening letter. I realise that British justice is nowhere near as unjust as the US variety, but bad things do happen. This law needs debating to prevent those kind of situations ever being possible. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Terry Coles wrote: On Tuesday 30 Mar 2010, Peter Merchant wrote: http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/view/8357/digital-economy-bill-protest s-spread-across-the-uk/ Yes, but that report is nearly a week old, so the momentum has been lost. The LibDems were the only major party opposing the bill. Now they've decided to support it, it's a shoo-in, so it doesn't really matter how many protests there are. I just hope the LibDems are right and the process of kicking serial infringers will be fair and just. My worry is that we end up in the same situation as in the US where individuals get letters threatening legal action and have to decided between paying the money to the protection racketeers or facing years in court and the millions of $ that that entails, even if they win!. Even when the money for defence is provided pro bono (eg out of the coffers of some support organisation), the victim can get hammered (and that takes no account of the stress and time involved in the process). See http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleart_aid=124929 for a couple of examples, where the defendants had help and were still hit for huge damage awards. There was also the woman who had never used a computer who got successfully sued (the computer belonged to her late husband) and the 12 year old girl who got the threatening letter. I realise that British justice is nowhere near as unjust as the US variety, but bad things do happen. This law needs debating to prevent those kind of situations ever being possible. On that subject, here's something I read today: http://tinyurl.com/y8hwcfz A 19 year-old in the UK whose case was dropped. Sean -- music, film, comics, books, rants and drivel: www.funkygibbins.me.uk -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On 25/03/2010 14:32, Andrew Montgomery-Hurrell wrote: Thats the exact same reply I got from Robert Syms - form letters are wonderful things. At least it generally seems positive regarding pushing for a proper debate. Unfortunately today the 2nd reading was set for the 6th April, the day the General Election is expected to be announced, there will likely be very few MPs around to debate it :( -- Dan Wentworth http://www.phoenixdev.co.uk/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Hi John, On Saturday 20 March 2010 08:42:27 Terry Coles wrote: has any one ever found an innovative software patent? Wasn't Lempel-Ziv innovative, in its time ? Was it? It's basically the bytes from here on are the same as the N bytes from M bytes ago, followed by this new bit: `...'. Seems a pretty obvious way of compressing? An interesting twist is that N can be larger than M, e.g. output five bytes starting from two bytes back, so the bit being copied overlaps the destination, but other than that. Yes, I know. Easy to say that's obvious once it's explained, but I'm still don't think it was patent-worthy. Now, Huffman coding, that could be. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Wasn't the Ziv coding the basis of GIF? Those files were a bugger to convert, GDI and GDI+ aren't happy with them at all; if you do convert the sods, the code is so badly written it leaves hanging references all over the shop, so you have to shut down the application that did the conversion to clear the space(this is in the case of overwrites). That's the windows story anyway. RLE- now that's a fine system. I ran comparitive tests on near-binary and full greyscale images. The near-binaries shoed 80% compression, which was good. But the greyscale? Oh, dear, oh dear, oh dear. Simon - Original Message - From: Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk To: Dorset Linux User Group dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill Hi John, On Saturday 20 March 2010 08:42:27 Terry Coles wrote: has any one ever found an innovative software patent? Wasn't Lempel-Ziv innovative, in its time ? Was it? It's basically the bytes from here on are the same as the N bytes from M bytes ago, followed by this new bit: `...'. Seems a pretty obvious way of compressing? An interesting twist is that N can be larger than M, e.g. output five bytes starting from two bytes back, so the bit being copied overlaps the destination, but other than that. Yes, I know. Easy to say that's obvious once it's explained, but I'm still don't think it was patent-worthy. Now, Huffman coding, that could be. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Friday 19 Mar 2010, Chris Dennis wrote: I've written to Desmond Swayne -- the MP on this side of the border. Last time I wrote to him about something (the arms trade) he just replied I disagree (embedded in a couple of paragraphs of waffle). When the big US Corporations were bending all the rules to get software patents legal in the EU, I wrote to every one of the South West MEPs. (I've never understood why we are apparently represented by nearly a dozen different people.) The responses were interesting, but not unexpected. Uncannily they all had beliefs that pretty much exactly aligned with those of their party. Generally the ones who were pro software patent spouted the nonsense about rewarding innovation (has any one ever found an innovative software patent?). The ones who were opposed seemed to be better informed. Having read what I just said, I suppose some would say 'I would think that wouldn't I'. :-) ) -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Saturday 20 March 2010 08:42:27 Terry Coles wrote: has any one ever found an innovative software patent? Wasn't Lempel-Ziv innovative, in its time ? the better points are surely 1 software patents are often not held by the innovators; 2 they last far too long and hamper /further/ innovation; 3 it is impossible in practice to avoid infringing them inadvertently; 4 algorithms are akin to theorems in logic or mathematics. Best wishes, John -- John Palmer Preston near Weymouth, Dorset, England e-mail: jo...@bcs.org.uk (plain text preferred) website: http://www.palmyra.uklinux.net/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Saturday 20 Mar 2010, Ralph Corderoy wrote: Yes, HTTP lets clients and servers converse over whether they need to fetch a new version of the page to save on needless transfers. A server can use it to help stop the `reload addicts' that keep reloading, waiting for the count to go up by one. :-) OK. So I can see why they would want to do this. Here's the conversation for the first time it's fetched, some headers deleted. A paragraph of request, another of reply. GET /Digital-Economy/ HTTP/1.0 Host: petitions.number10.gov.uk Pragma: no-cache Cache-Control: no-cache, max-age=259200 HTTP/1.0 200 OK Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:12:05 GMT Expires: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:12:06 GMT Content-Length: 16664 Last-Modified: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:31:03 GMT Cache-Control: max-age=1 The next time the browser asks, including on a reload, it adds the `If-Modified-Since' header. GET /Digital-Economy/ HTTP/1.0 If-Modified-Since: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:31:03 GMT Host: petitions.number10.gov.uk Cache-Control: max-age=259200 HTTP/1.0 304 Not Modified Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:11:54 GMT Unless I've misunderstood this, the server is lying! The browser asks if the page has been modified since the last time it got a fresh page and the server says no, even though it has. Seems a pretty poor approach to me, because it will make people keep asking and wondering why a page they expect to change isn't. Hold down Shift in most browsers when clicking the Reload icon to make it not do this and really get a fresh version of the page. But use sparingly. There's a reason it works as above. You don't want the server so heavily loaded that folks don't bother signing. :-) That is the bit that confused me. I thought the reload button on it's own gave that behaviour. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On 19/03/2010 14:06, Terry Coles wrote: At this stage if 10,000 written requests are put to local politicians then the bill will be required to be run through a more formal analysis that is currently the case. Thats 10,000 people across the whole of the UK. I didn't know that. Get writing you lazy slobs! :-) The Open Rights Group reports today that 10,000 people have written to their MP (presumably stats from the 38 degrees website), but the corporate lobbyists are still pushing to get this through. http://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2010/1-letters-sent-to-mps-to-demand-disconnection-debate It's going to be very difficult for MPs to ignore the level of support that the campaign has raised. Hopefully the demonstration next week in London will also be a spectacular display of support. Incidentally, if anyone would like to attend the demonstration next week (Wednesday, 5:30pm, Westminster) then I'll be driving up and I still have a free seat in my car. -- Dan Wentworth http://www.phoenixdev.co.uk/ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:06:10 +, d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk said: If the big-content owners could recognise that their business model is out-dated, out-moded and failing But they never do. The entertainment industry are the people that opposed CDs because they would allow exact copies to be made, who wanted a tax on audio cassettes before that to cover their losses from home taping, and who wanted to ban video recorders before that. As Glyn Moody reports [1], the film industry reported that global box office receipts reached an all time high of $29.9 billion, an increase of 7.6% over 2008 and almost 30% from 2005. But they are (obviously) suffering because they add, Yet our industry faces the relentless challenge of the theft of its creative content, a challenge extracting an increasingly unbearable cost. It is apparently a more effective use of their marketing dollars to lobby politicians than to innovate. [1] http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2010/03/hollywoods-post-theatrical-problem-isnt.html -- Keith Edmunds +-+ |Tiger Computing Ltd| Helping businesses make the most of Linux | | The Linux Specialists | http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk | +-+ -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Done and done, and 38 degrees takes the pain out of the distasteful business we sometimes have to do. - Original Message - From: Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk To: Dorset Linux User Group dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill On Thursday 18 Mar 2010, Simon O'Riordan wrote: Is this the one that makes ISP's into censors and requires licenses for us? I wasn't aware that we would need licenses, but the bit I don't like is that the content providers accuse the user and the ISP has to cut them off. Judge, Jury, Executioner. -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
[Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Today it was reported that the new Digital Economy Bill has passed through the Lords, (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/digital-economy-bill-approved-by- lords-5919) so it will become law before the election if nothing is done about it. If, like me, you disagree with this law, then consider writing to your MP. A web page has been set up at 38 Degrees (with support from the Open Rights Group) to make this a fairly easy task. See http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/extremeinternetl. I apologise if this message strays too far into politics, but I see this as a problem of justice, not politics. AIUI, this law will share quite a few features with the DMCA in the US, not least the power placed into the hands of the content providers; the very people who have the most to gain by abusing it! -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
Re: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill
Is this the one that makes ISP's into censors and requires licenses for us? - Original Message - From: Terry Coles d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk To: Dorset Linux User Group dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: [Dorset] OT: Sign up to oppose the Digital Economy Bill Today it was reported that the new Digital Economy Bill has passed through the Lords, (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/digital-economy-bill-approved-by- lords-5919) so it will become law before the election if nothing is done about it. If, like me, you disagree with this law, then consider writing to your MP. A web page has been set up at 38 Degrees (with support from the Open Rights Group) to make this a fairly easy task. See http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/extremeinternetl. I apologise if this message strays too far into politics, but I see this as a problem of justice, not politics. AIUI, this law will share quite a few features with the DMCA in the US, not least the power placed into the hands of the content providers; the very people who have the most to gain by abusing it! -- Terry Coles 64 bit computing with Kubuntu Linux -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Wed 2010-04-07 20:00 http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2645413 Chat: http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.orgchannel=%23dorset List info: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dorset
