Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
I am a Mesa/DRI user for few years (Voodoo1, Voodoo3, Radeon 9100, Radeon 9800) and always there were some problems with hardware acceleration of some applications. If I remember correctly there was a problem with wrong texture format or size, usage of some more advanced features and now - just smoothing on r300. I just read comment for this bug:https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7359Isn't good solution for Mesa to ask user what is more important - hardware acceleration or some feature? Maybe it should be configurable with environment variable, for instance - LIBGL_FORCE_SMOOTH_LINE - when set, Mesa will fallback to software rendering if hardware accelerated driver doesn't support smooth lines, when unset - Mesa will just render unsmooth line or skip it at all (well it may be another variable LIBGL_SKIP_SMOOTH_LINE) Or is it already possible to configure Mesa this way? Where can I read about it?-- Free Software - find interesting programs and change themNetHack - meet interesting creatures, kill them and eat their bodies Usenet - meet interesting people from all over the world and flame themDecopter - unrealistic helicopter simulator, get it from http://decopter.sf.net Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
On 6/29/06, Jacek Poplawski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a Mesa/DRI user for few years (Voodoo1, Voodoo3, Radeon 9100, Radeon 9800) and always there were some problems with hardware acceleration of some applications. If I remember correctly there was a problem with wrong texture format or size, usage of some more advanced features and now - just smoothing on r300. I just read comment for this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7359 Isn't good solution for Mesa to ask user what is more important - hardware acceleration or some feature? Hardware acceleration is always on assuming your system is set up properly. If an application uses a feature that is not supported by hardware, you have to fall back to software if you want the application to run. HW acceleration is still used for the other aspects of the app. if you just ignore non-implemented features, you'll probably get rendering errors in many cases. Forcing non smooth lines works in the case of google earth, but may not for other apps. Alex Maybe it should be configurable with environment variable, for instance - LIBGL_FORCE_SMOOTH_LINE - when set, Mesa will fallback to software rendering if hardware accelerated driver doesn't support smooth lines, when unset - Mesa will just render unsmooth line or skip it at all (well it may be another variable LIBGL_SKIP_SMOOTH_LINE) Or is it already possible to configure Mesa this way? Where can I read about it? Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
On 6/30/06, Alex Deucher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/29/06, Jacek Poplawski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a Mesa/DRI user for few years (Voodoo1, Voodoo3, Radeon 9100, Radeon 9800) and always there were some problems with hardware acceleration of some applications. If I remember correctly there was a problem with wrong texture format or size, usage of some more advanced features and now - just smoothing on r300. I just read comment for this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7359 Isn't good solution for Mesa to ask user what is more important - hardware acceleration or some feature? Hardware acceleration is always on assuming your system is set up properly. If an application uses a feature that is not supported by hardware, you have to fall back to software if you want the application to run. HW acceleration is still used for the other aspects of the app. if you just ignore non-implemented features, you'll probably get rendering errors in many cases. Forcing non smooth lines works in the case of google earth, but may not for other apps. Alex Moreover such situation may only happen for in development driver. r300 driver is still in development, lot of feature are missing. Thus i think it will be a burden to add such flag and dev will loose time doing that while they could simply work on the feature. best, Jerome Glisse Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
Hardware acceleration is always on assuming your system is set upproperly.If an application uses a feature that is not supported by hardware, you have to fall back to software if you want theapplication to run. But in that case many applications won't run correctly, because they are tested with propertary nVidia/ATI drivers, and their authors don't know / don't care about open source drivers. And it is not possible to fix closed source application. Is there any layer between application and OpenGL implementation which may process OpenGL calls and emulate some of them (i.e. draw normal lines instead smooth ones)? Maybe a wrapper - /usr/lib/libGL.so library which will use /usr/lib/libGL- original.so library? Or is it completly wrong idea?-- Free Software - find interesting programs and change themNetHack - meet interesting creatures, kill them and eat their bodiesUsenet - meet interesting people from all over the world and flame them Decopter - unrealistic helicopter simulator, get it from http://decopter.sf.net Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
On 6/30/06, Jacek Poplawski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hardware acceleration is always on assuming your system is set up properly. If an application uses a feature that is not supported by hardware, you have to fall back to software if you want the application to run. But in that case many applications won't run correctly, because they are tested with propertary nVidia/ATI drivers, and their authors don't know / don't care about open source drivers. And it is not possible to fix closed source application. Is there any layer between application and OpenGL implementation which may process OpenGL calls and emulate some of them (i.e. draw normal lines instead smooth ones)? It would be better to just implement the feature in hardware. It's probably about the same amount of work. Alex Maybe a wrapper - /usr/lib/libGL.so library which will use /usr/lib/libGL- original.so library? Or is it completly wrong idea? Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
Jacek Poplawski wrote: Hardware acceleration is always on assuming your system is set up properly. If an application uses a feature that is not supported by hardware, you have to fall back to software if you want the application to run. But in that case many applications won't run correctly, because they are tested with propertary nVidia/ATI drivers, and their authors don't know / don't care about open source drivers. And it is not possible to fix closed source application. Sometimes particular graphics hardware isn't even fast enough to give decent performance, nevermind hardware vs. software paths. Ideally, an application should either measure its own performance and automatically scale back rendering or give the user the option to do so manually. To address this thread's subject, I don't think a driver should just ignore particular OpenGL features when they may be slow. I'd rather have a slow OpenGL driver than one that just drops features/rendering on the floor. Is there any layer between application and OpenGL implementation which may process OpenGL calls and emulate some of them (i.e. draw normal lines instead smooth ones)? Maybe a wrapper - /usr/lib/libGL.so library which will use /usr/lib/libGL- original.so library? Chromium (http://sourceforge.net/projects/chromium) can be used to intercept/change OpenGL calls. Or is it completly wrong idea? I don't think it's something most people want to mess with. -Brian Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Why DRI/Mesa turns off hardware acceleration instead disabling features?
On Friday 30 June 2006 13:15, Jacek Poplawski wrote: Hardware acceleration is always on assuming your system is set up properly. If an application uses a feature that is not supported by hardware, you have to fall back to software if you want the application to run. But in that case many applications won't run correctly, because they are tested with propertary nVidia/ATI drivers, and their authors don't know / don't care about open source drivers. And it is not possible to fix closed source application. That complaint is only partially correct. They test on nvidia only, and tell anyone who uses anything DRI based (which includes ati binary drivers) to screw off, even though nvidia is at fault for not doing the correct thing in the first place. What nvidia does on Linux may fly on Windows, but it doesn't fly here: if you make a 3D driver, you use Mesa as your OpenGL lib, and you use DRI as your HAL. If you don't like Mesa or DRI because it is buggy or slow or backwards, then either fix the so called bugs, or quit bitching. /rant -- Patrick McFarland || www.AdTerrasPerAspera.com Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list Dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
