[dspam-users] Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:04:47 + Von: RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com An: dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net CC: dspam-community-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com, dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:24:52 +0100 Steve stev...@gmx.net wrote: Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:36:16 + Von: RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com An: dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net CC: dspam-community-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com, dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback I was put-off using DSPAM for a long time because it wasn't clear to me that it could even be used without mta integration, quarantine etc. And the idea of managing spam through a webpage, or forwarding addresses seems very clumsy compared with dragging to a learn-spam folder or setting a flag. Funny you mention this because that would require IMAP integration but above you complained about MTA integration. Firstly, learning from folders doesn't require any IMAP integration if DSPAM is on the same machine as the folders. It doesn't even imply the use of imap if the folders are local to your home directory. Bogofilter and spamassassin can both learn whole folders in one go just by giving the correct path. This is trivial to do from crontab without any significant shell scripting experience. Bogofilter also has a perl script that that will do training to exhaustion from two corpus folders, which is even easier. Claws-mail and kmail both have bogofilter and spamassassin plugins that that make them as easy to use as the Bayesian filtering in Thunderbird. Now I understand you. DSPAM can as well learn from folders. The basis functionality is there. The training script included into DSPAM does exactly that. Learning is not a big issue. The re-learning or re-classifying is a issue since it would require to extract the signature from the mails. It would not be a big issue to wrap that functionality into a shell script.. Secondly, like a lot of people who run mail filtering software on desktop computers, I'm not using an MTA, I use getmail to fetch mail from pop/imap accounts and feed it through spam filters to dovecot. Lots of people use getmail or fetchmail in this way. DSPAM does not force you to use a MTA. You can run it without any MTA. A good example of that is the training script included in DSPAM. Running it does not require you to use a MTA at all. I think it's a mistake to lump together all the parts of DSPAM under a single project name, it gives the impression that it's a Windows-style monolithic application. Is it so important if it is monolithic or not? I personally care more about the result of the filtering and the level of maintenance it needs then about the question if it is monolithic or not. But that's just me. I would hope it is just you, I certainly wouldn't run DSPAM if it dictated how I process my mail, and really did require me to install an unwanted MTA and webserver, just to do simple mail-filtering. But the question about being monolithic or not has nothing to do with MTA/Webserver stuff. Or do I get that wrong? If you read around a bit more, you may find out about the hash driver, and home-directory support. However, the hash driver support is much less mature, and unlike Bogofilter and Spamassassin, DSPAM doesn't honour $HOME, so you can't use virtual home directories. What do you mean with virtual home directories? Could you explain me what this is? Pseudo home directories for virtual users. It's a pity this doesn't work for another reason. According to the documentation only the hash driver is fast enough to cope with some of DSPAM's more advanced filtering options, With more advanced you mean the SBPH tokenizer. Right? I would not say that the SBPH tokenizer is more advanced then the other tokenizers. It is sure one of the more complex tokenizers but the OSB tokenizer is not less complex and can store it's results in other storages then the hash driver. The point with SBPH is that it produces a lot of data. A mail with just 5 words would result in +/- 16 tokens with the SBPH tokenizer where the WORD tokenizer would do +/- 5 tokens, the CHAIN tokenizer would do +/- 9 tokens and the OSB tokenizer would create +/- 4 to 5 tokens. You could use SBPH and let it save the tokens in MySQL or PostgreSQL or any other storage DSPAM supports. But be prepared that the speed will be much slower then compared to the hash driver. and AFAIK the hash driver doesn't support virtual
[dspam-users] Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
Hello, world!\n Even if you google around and eventually find that it can be used as a local standalone classifier like Bogofilter or Spamassassin, it still has rough edges. Most of what you find on google will tell you that you need to setup an sql backend manually - that's going to loose a lot of people. If you read around a bit more, you may find out about the hash driver, and home-directory support. However, the hash driver support is much less mature, and unlike Bogofilter and Spamassassin, DSPAM doesn't honour $HOME, so you can't use virtual home directories. I very much second that. DSpam works very well as a stand-alone program, but it the documentation treats it as a not-so-interesting corner case, so it is not easy to set it up that way. Also, when you call dspamc from procmail, you need to use several counter-intuitive switches like `--process --deliver=innocent,spam --user=$USER' and so on. I have a couple of patches in my queue, I will send them soon. Also, I am very glad that the project is alive again and I hope I will find some time to improve the stand-alone usage. Have a nice fortnight -- Martin `MJ' Mares m...@ucw.cz http://mj.ucw.cz/ Faculty of Math and Physics, Charles University, Prague, Czech Rep., Earth Make $$$ fast. Learn Perl! !DSPAM:1011,497b7c8c150921588661719!
[dspam-users] RE: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
Or if you are not a DSPAM user jet and using something else: Why don't you use DSPAM? Why do you use something else? What function / feature would motivate you to switch to DSPAM? Hi, I'd very much like to see user defined black/whitelist option. Maybe even white/blacklist via the GUI? Regards, Dudi Goldenberg CTO Kolcore Ltd. Registered Linux user #79506 !DSPAM:1011,497b7f1f150926309221476!
[dspam-users] Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:36:16 + Von: RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com An: dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net CC: dspam-community-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com, dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:52:27 +0100 Steve stev...@gmx.net wrote: Or if you are not a DSPAM user jet and using something else: Why don't you use DSPAM? Why do you use something else? What function / feature would motivate you to switch to DSPAM? IMO DSPAM tries too hard to appeal to enterprise-level sysadmins at the expense of individual and soho users. This is rather dangerous because most such OSS projects tend to draw their new developers from the latter group. I was put-off using DSPAM for a long time because it wasn't clear to me that it could even be used without mta integration, quarantine etc. And the idea of managing spam through a webpage, or forwarding addresses seems very clumsy compared with dragging to a learn-spam folder or setting a flag. I think it's a mistake to lump together all the parts of DSPAM under a single project name, it gives the impression that it's a Windows-style monolithic application. Even if you google around and eventually find that it can be used as a local standalone classifier like Bogofilter or Spamassassin, it still has rough edges. Most of what you find on google will tell you that you need to setup an sql backend manually - that's going to loose a lot of people. If you read around a bit more, you may find out about the hash driver, and home-directory support. However, the hash driver support is much less mature, and unlike Bogofilter and Spamassassin, DSPAM doesn't honour $HOME, so you can't use virtual home directories. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Dspam-community-devel mailing list dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-community-devel -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger !DSPAM:1011,497ba247150927360912906!
[dspam-users] Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:36:16 + Von: RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com An: dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net CC: dspam-community-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-community-de...@lists.sourceforge.net, dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com, dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: Re: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:52:27 +0100 Steve stev...@gmx.net wrote: Or if you are not a DSPAM user jet and using something else: Why don't you use DSPAM? Why do you use something else? What function / feature would motivate you to switch to DSPAM? IMO DSPAM tries too hard to appeal to enterprise-level sysadmins at the expense of individual and soho users. This is rather dangerous because most such OSS projects tend to draw their new developers from the latter group. I was put-off using DSPAM for a long time because it wasn't clear to me that it could even be used without mta integration, quarantine etc. And the idea of managing spam through a webpage, or forwarding addresses seems very clumsy compared with dragging to a learn-spam folder or setting a flag. Funny you mention this because that would require IMAP integration but above you complained about MTA integration. I think it's a mistake to lump together all the parts of DSPAM under a single project name, it gives the impression that it's a Windows-style monolithic application. Is it so important if it is monolithic or not? I personally care more about the result of the filtering and the level of maintenance it needs then about the question if it is monolithic or not. But that's just me. Even if you google around and eventually find that it can be used as a local standalone classifier like Bogofilter or Spamassassin, it still has rough edges. Most of what you find on google will tell you that you need to setup an sql backend manually - that's going to loose a lot of people. If you read around a bit more, you may find out about the hash driver, and home-directory support. However, the hash driver support is much less mature, and unlike Bogofilter and Spamassassin, DSPAM doesn't honour $HOME, so you can't use virtual home directories. What do you mean with virtual home directories? Could you explain me what this is? -- NUR NOCH BIS 31.01.! GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL für nur 16,37 EURO/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a !DSPAM:1011,497ba345150921211911124!
RE: [dspam-users] RE: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
I'd very much like to see user defined black/whitelist option. Blacklist (blocklist to be precise) do exist. It's not well documented but it's there. I know it :) I know that as well :-) That's leaves whitelisting. Besides, having black/whitelist option in the GUI will allow end users to use the dspam Outlook add-in to black/whitelist. Just a thought. Regards, D. !DSPAM:1011,497ba757150922104713436!
AW: RE: [dspam-users] RE: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback
Hmm whitelistening is overated i think. Normally you retrain an mail and it will be delivered as long you do not retrain it to spam and get whitelistened anyway Same with blacklist. One time training by the user and ist fine. I cant see the problem More important than white and blacklist would be better plugins for several mailclients and platforms. Using imap isnt an option very very often. There is one outlookplugin but it have ist problem with vista. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-dspam-us...@lists.nuclearelephant.com [mailto:owner-dspam-us...@lists.nuclearelephant.com] Im Auftrag von Dudi Goldenberg Gesendet: Sonntag, 25. Jänner 2009 01:20 An: Steve; dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com; dspam-community-u...@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: RE: RE: [dspam-users] RE: [Dspam-community-devel] I would appreciate some feedback -- Let's collect the ideas and then look what can be done easy and what needs more work and let's not talk about problems but about challenges to make DSPAM even better :) I know. I'm an old time DSPAM user, I also remember all the discussions about DSPAM being a pure statistical tool and there is no room for black/whitelisting etc. But I can wait :-) I do think it's a good addition to DSPAM and that it can help persuade more sysadmins to use it. Keep it up! Regards, D. !DSPAM:1011,497c08f3150922011017403!
