Re: [DX-CHAT] [DX-News] Vinny from the crossing.....

2003-09-18 Thread WC7N
Well said Ron.  I noticed during the Beta test, if it had been for real I
would have picked up several new band countries.

Can't help but say I like it and I know it will never totally replace the
good old QSL card/SASE/Green Stamps.

Rod WC7N

- Original Message - 
From: Ron Notarius WN3VAW [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Fred Souto Maior [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mome Z32ZM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; DX Chat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] [DX-News] Vinny from the crossing.


 Gentlemen,

 Please, let's not the rhetoric start causing us to put words in other
 people's mouths...

 Logbook of the World has always been intended as a voluntary system.  I
have
 yet to hear from ANYONE who is in any way a League offical (at the Hq
level,
 that is) propose anything that in ANY way implies that LotW usage will be
 mandated.  The suggestion or comments to the effect that LotW should be
 mandated have all come from others not directly related to LotW -- not
from
 the League Hq. folks.

 Let us further keep in perspective that LotW was created in part because
of
 a clamor over the last few years from a small but steadily growing number
of
 DX'ers who wanted an electronic means of getting confirmations for awards
 purposes.

 Now this is not to say that OTHERS may insist to some degree or another
that
 LotW use should be mandated.  I would not be surprised if, at some point,
 some large DX organization or another tells a DXpeditiion that in exchange
 for funding, they must upload their logs to LotW at some point.  But IF
that
 situation should happen, again remember that it is someone OTHER than the
 League making that request.

 Further, I'd submit that one of the many benefits of LotW will be that a
 certain small percentage of DX and Contest stations who, for whatever
 reason(s), either decline to answer QSL cards or do so very grudgingly,
now
 have a relatively painless outlet available to them.  They will be able to
 send their log in electronically and thus provide an means of confirming
the
 QSL (and yes, in some cases, there may be three emails -- one to the
contest
 sponsor, one to LotW, one to eQSL to cover those who decline to use LotW.
 Sure is easier than filling out a few dozen, let alone hundreds or
 thousands, of QSL cards by hand).

 And let's face an unpleasant fact:  Some of those who collect green stamps
 or IRC's in lieu of sending out QSL cards will probably never embrace
LotW.
 And some of those who simply do not wish to be bothered, period, won't
 either.  So some problems will never be solved.

 Having said that, let us NOT forget that Logbook of the World is just now
 being fully implemented.  There will be growing pains, and updates (for
the
 better, I'm sure) and some changes as the system actually gets used.

 So let's not pronounce it DOA just yet, hmmm?

 73, ron wn3vaw

 46th Annual Pennsylvania QSO Party October 11  12!
 www.nittany-arc.org/paqso.html
 Look for N3SH - Allegheny County, WA3SH - Fayette County, and NP2SH -- US
 Virgin Islands!
 For more information see www.washarc.org


 - Original Message -
 From: Fred Souto Maior [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mome Z32ZM [EMAIL PROTECTED]; NJDXA DXR [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [DX-News] Vinny from the crossing.


 Hello Mome/all:

 All cards you mentioned on your message I received without any problem.
 All cards I needed and all cards I asked for, with SAE and return postage,
 I received OK.All requests of cards I received for all my expeditions with
 SAE and return postage ($, IRC's or stamps) I answered  same way. Only a
few
 ones, I had to send again. Don't forget this is a hobby !!! You can't ask
 for anything to be an OBLIGATION TO ALL as per your message. Nobody can
tell
 me what to do regarding my activity as a
 ham.And ARRL or any other kind of organization can't tell me that I must
do
 this or that with MY log or MY cards. Thanks of God !  Best regards to
 all.
 And BTW never expect to see my logs on LOTW  I don't use E-logs. All
my
 qso's are on old paper logs system.

 Fred - PY7ZZ


 -Mensagem Original-
 De: Mome Z32ZM [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Para: NJDXA DXR [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Enviada em: Quinta-feira, 18 de Setembro de 2003 16:20
 Assunto: Re: [DX-News] Vinny from the crossing.


 Finnaly  YES , LoTW as OBLIGATION for ALL !
 
  We can count on QSL's never seen B4  no chance to have them  via buro
or
  several direct attempt via namager   VP8SSI, TX0DX, E44DX, 3Y0PI,
VK0IR,
  K7K, K4M, .etc..well , by the scool  by nowmarked as NO WAY
 for
  BURO CARDS.
 
   So I'm sure that all of us been waiting for chance like this one 
LoTW.
 
  BUT  Untill this LoTW will not take a place as OBLIGATION , esspecially
  for at least TOP-20 by most wanted DXCC's ,
  will be absoluttely 'UNUSABLLE'   will keep those DXCC's  Managers 
  'UNTOUCHABLE' ..
 
  SO I SUGGEST: in the comming rulles of DXCC

Re: [DX-CHAT] [DX-News] Vinny from the crossing.....

2003-09-18 Thread Ron Notarius WN3VAW
Now how exactly is the ARRL going to make money off of Logbook of the
World?

Anyone who chooses to can upload their log -- no charge.  Yes, they need to
get a certificate (no charge) to ensure that it is really them uploading,
but once the initial certificate is created, additional ones can be
generated (no charge) for alternate calls (previous, vanity, special event,
etc.)

Is there a charge involved?  Yes -- when you apply for an ARRL-sponsored
award (ie DXCC, WAS, VUCC, etc).  How much?  That hasn't been determined yet
BUT we have been repeatedly told that it will be LESS than the current
per-card cost of these awards now.

That's right... less.  Obviously this is because generating the credits
electronically is cheaper than having a human being process paperwork and
physically examine physical cards.  Hmmm, that also means that you SAVE
money by NOT having to ship cards to League Hq. or taking them to a card
checker.  Not to mention hassle, risk of loss or damage, etc.

Sure seems to me more like the ARRL is keeping the costs down by
implementing this system.  But making money on it?  How?  Where?  How
much?

... and remember this, the ARRL has specifically stated that they will NOT
be using LotW logs to act as a quasi- or de-facto QSL manager, unlike at
least one other electronic logging system that now charges a fee for sending
you a QSL card from an uploaded log (not a nickel of which goes to the
station who uploaded the log, from what I've seen).

C'mon.  Let's stick to facts.  Not opinion.

73, ron wn3vaw

46th Annual Pennsylvania QSO Party October 11  12!
www.nittany-arc.org/paqso.html
Look for N3SH - Allegheny County, WA3SH - Fayette County, and NP2SH -- US
Virgin Islands!
For more information see www.washarc.org


- Original Message -
From: Ron Lago [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WC7N [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-News] Vinny from the crossing.


Well I dont know abt some stations but I know I have thousands  of pages of
written logs for  abt 50 stations and it will be cold outside before I
computerize them so the ARRL can make more money.
Here's my the deal...you want a card? send yours properly and I will send
you a card. I dont need an extra $ or 2..just a SAE and return postage or a
buro cardpretty simple, If a dxpeditions don't want to use lotw, its
their business. Anyone that does'nt like their action should not work them
or go on their own dxpedition.
73
Ron
AC7DX
At 05:22 PM 9/18/2003 -0700, WC7N wrote:

Barry those guys won't upload the logs they have.  They want those Green
Stamps


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