Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
Larry, I sure agree with what you and others have been saying concerning this problem but, I wanted you and others to know that this is a completely different organization than the Southern Illinois DX and Contest Club and don't want people who see our scores thinking it could be us doing this.We truely are in Southern Il. ,not in Cook County outside of Chicago Best of 73's an gud DX'ing K9HUH Ted Wilhelm Secretary Belleville,Il. Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
In a message dated 3/4/04 9:43:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >>PS: Nice to see you teach plagiarism in college. << My, my, what do they teach in those schools today :-) Hobout some morse code and ham license classes? Yuri
Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
Copying from one is plagarism . . . copying from many is research. Ron ND5S - Original Message - From: "Tom Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charles Harpole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 14:15 Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice > Charles, et. al: > > As a former newspaper reporter having your "stuff" (our word for > stories, not my XYL Cheryl WY5H cleaning up the shack) picked up by > other media was/is a common thing. Its not right, but it happens all the > time. Sometimes credit is given, sometimes not. > > I used to get a kick out of some of the small town radio stations around > Waco TX where I worked for 6 1/2 years reading my stories on the air, > mistakes and all without any corrections or even fact checking. I once > listened to one station read verbatim a 30 inch long feature story I > wrote on one man in the town where this particular station was located, > even hearing the pages rustle as he followed the story to the part that > jumped inside. A 30 inch feature story takes at least 10 minutes to read > on the air if not longer and its not written in radio broadcast style. I > guess I should have provided broadcast style rewrites of my stories hi hi. > > Another time back in the 1970s I broke the story of warrants being > issued for the arrest of a senior Dallas/Fort Worth area police officer > for the murder of a prostitute at a Waco massage parlor because the > detective working the case said he would have the guy in custody before > morning and he assured me it would not hurt his case or the arrest, > otherwise I would have sat on the story. > > Well the local radio stations at first ran my story as "their" story > (they had just "learned" of the impending arrest) but when the arrest > didn't happen as quickly as the detectives said it would these same > stations that had "learned" of the impending arrest suddenly turned on > me and my newspaper like Piranhas going after a side of beef. They > distanced themselves in a hurry saying the arrest was delayed because of > a Waco newspaper's premature release of the information. But a little > while later in the morning when the Waco PD did announce the arrest, > they touted it again that they had "announced" the impending arrest in > their newscasts that morning. > > This has nothing to do with picking up information off of one web site > and putting it on another, but stuff like this happens all the time. > > Tom, WW5L, 7P8TA, V31EF, G0/WW5L > > PS: Nice to see you teach plagiarism in college. I had it drilled into > me writing research papers during my grad school days in mass > communications. > > Charles Harpole wrote: > > > I am not a member of any DX club, but I think WLS over reacted to the > > repeating of web info as per an earlier chat. While it would have been > > nice and proper for reference to be made to the original source of the > > "tips" to say this incident is unethical is a stretch. > > > > One has to realize that the Web is a new thing nothing on it can > > be verified or authenticated, everything on it is just like a big > > conversation or even a bull session informal, filled with opinion, > > and very often not accurate. One's words can spread with one's > > control archived, quoted, misquoted at will. > > > > I teach plagiarism in college classes. Yes, this incident is > > plagiarism in the pure sense, it is hardly intellectual theft where > > someone plans to profit or benefit by stealing another person's ideas. > > > > Intellectual property is only protected by copyright for the life of > > the author plus 75 years. > > > > > > > > Charles Harpole > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! > > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat > > > > To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org > > > > > > > > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems > http://njdxa.org/dx-chat > > To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA > http://njdxa.org > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice ???
Yep, plagiarism exactly involves "the issues of ethical practice, honesty, and principles." (K4WLS, cited below) I just think WLS over reacted to a minor incident in the great HOBBY of ham radio. I send out a bigger signal because N4GI came over to my station and helped me install 5 el. monobanders, but (except for now), I do not footnote him when I work a rare DX on the first call nor give him credit when a rag chewer asks me to move from "his" frequency during my contesting. WLS is correct, I think. He just over reacted.1 1 "over reacted" is often seen written as one word, also. I can not get super scripts (footnote numbers) to print on this email, sorry. This email of mine is an over reaction. done here as an example... 73 and see u in the DX Contest piles this weekend, I fear. Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Larry, K4WLS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[DX-Chat]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:20:20 -0500 Ref: Post by K4VUD Charles, Please read my Post again. Not once did I broach the issues of plaegerism (I can't even spell it) or copyright. I did stress the issues of ethical practice, honesty, and principles. Unfortunately, most of the American people today do not understand what these words actually entail. Many of the ones that do like to "water them down". 73, Larry K4WLS Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org _ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
I realize that most of the information on the internet is not copyrighted, and therefore basically a "free for all", but this is an unethical practice in the unwritten code of DX'ing. Not true, everything is copyright. You do not have to say something is copyright, just the fact that it was "published" makes it copyright. If the President/Webmaster of SIDXA would have contacted the President/Webmaster of MDXA, they would have gladly been given permission to use these articles. It is not theirs to give. You are the copyright owner since you originally published the articles. Atempts to contact the President of Southern Illinois DX Association by e-mail (it bounces) and telephone (directory service) have been fruitless. Send them a snail mail letter, certified return receipt requested. Inform them that if they do not remove the material within a week, specify a day, that you will do whatever it takes to protect your copyright including informing their hosting company and litigation. If they don't reply or remove the material send another letter to their ISP informing them one of their clients had copyright material which belongs to you and they have ignored your request to remove. This step almost always gets attention because, one informed, their ISP is also libel. I've been this route many times. Urb, W2DEC Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
Ref: Post by K4VUD Charles, Please read my Post again. Not once did I broach the issues of plaegerism (I can't even spell it) or copyright. I did stress the issues of ethical practice, honesty, and principles. Unfortunately, most of the American people today do not understand what these words actually entail. Many of the ones that do like to "water them down". 73, Larry K4WLS Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
Charles, et. al: As a former newspaper reporter having your "stuff" (our word for stories, not my XYL Cheryl WY5H cleaning up the shack) picked up by other media was/is a common thing. Its not right, but it happens all the time. Sometimes credit is given, sometimes not. I used to get a kick out of some of the small town radio stations around Waco TX where I worked for 6 1/2 years reading my stories on the air, mistakes and all without any corrections or even fact checking. I once listened to one station read verbatim a 30 inch long feature story I wrote on one man in the town where this particular station was located, even hearing the pages rustle as he followed the story to the part that jumped inside. A 30 inch feature story takes at least 10 minutes to read on the air if not longer and its not written in radio broadcast style. I guess I should have provided broadcast style rewrites of my stories hi hi. Another time back in the 1970s I broke the story of warrants being issued for the arrest of a senior Dallas/Fort Worth area police officer for the murder of a prostitute at a Waco massage parlor because the detective working the case said he would have the guy in custody before morning and he assured me it would not hurt his case or the arrest, otherwise I would have sat on the story. Well the local radio stations at first ran my story as "their" story (they had just "learned" of the impending arrest) but when the arrest didn't happen as quickly as the detectives said it would these same stations that had "learned" of the impending arrest suddenly turned on me and my newspaper like Piranhas going after a side of beef. They distanced themselves in a hurry saying the arrest was delayed because of a Waco newspaper's premature release of the information. But a little while later in the morning when the Waco PD did announce the arrest, they touted it again that they had "announced" the impending arrest in their newscasts that morning. This has nothing to do with picking up information off of one web site and putting it on another, but stuff like this happens all the time. Tom, WW5L, 7P8TA, V31EF, G0/WW5L PS: Nice to see you teach plagiarism in college. I had it drilled into me writing research papers during my grad school days in mass communications. Charles Harpole wrote: I am not a member of any DX club, but I think WLS over reacted to the repeating of web info as per an earlier chat. While it would have been nice and proper for reference to be made to the original source of the "tips" to say this incident is unethical is a stretch. One has to realize that the Web is a new thing nothing on it can be verified or authenticated, everything on it is just like a big conversation or even a bull session informal, filled with opinion, and very often not accurate. One's words can spread with one's control archived, quoted, misquoted at will. I teach plagiarism in college classes. Yes, this incident is plagiarism in the pure sense, it is hardly intellectual theft where someone plans to profit or benefit by stealing another person's ideas. Intellectual property is only protected by copyright for the life of the author plus 75 years. Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
I am not a member of any DX club, but I think WLS over reacted to the repeating of web info as per an earlier chat. While it would have been nice and proper for reference to be made to the original source of the "tips" to say this incident is unethical is a stretch. One has to realize that the Web is a new thing nothing on it can be verified or authenticated, everything on it is just like a big conversation or even a bull session informal, filled with opinion, and very often not accurate. One's words can spread with one's control archived, quoted, misquoted at will. I teach plagiarism in college classes. Yes, this incident is plagiarism in the pure sense, it is hardly intellectual theft where someone plans to profit or benefit by stealing another person's ideas. Intellectual property is only protected by copyright for the life of the author plus 75 years. Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] Unethical Practice
It is sad that I have to resort to this means of communications to document this incident, but I have no other alternative. First off.I am NOT a member of the Southern Illinois DX Association Several weeks ago I did a web search of my call. I was not surprised that the Magnolia DX Association and Carolina DX Association, which I am a member of, showed up. I was, however, surprised that the Southern Illinois DX Association came up. Further investigation of the SIDXA web site revealed that SIDXA had copied ver batim about 3 1/2 pages of DX related articles from the MDXA web site. Preceding these "copied articles" on the SIDXA web site was the statement "Here are some DX Tips that have been passed on by our members". I was the author of many of the DX Tips, and my name and call appeared under the copied articles on the SIDXA web site. MDXA was not mentioned as the originator of these copied articles. I realize that most of the information on the internet is not copyrighted, and therefore basically a "free for all", but this is an unethical practice in the unwritten code of DX'ing. If the President/Webmaster of SIDXA would have contacted the President/Webmaster of MDXA, they would have gladly been given permission to use these articles. They, however, did not. If they had have, MDXA should have been given credit as the originator. Atempts to contact the President of Southern Illinois DX Association by e-mail (it bounces) and telephone (directory service) have been fruitless. I have chosen not to mention names and calls (other than my own) in this post. My intention is not to point the finger at a certain individual, but to point out the shameful and unethical practice of this incident. This incident is akin to someone forging a QSL card for DXCC credit. DX'ers have always been a "special breed" of the amateur radio community. As such, they should exhibit the highest standards of honesty, morality, and proper conduct on and off the bands. Larry, K4WLS Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
