Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Climate change is not a myth!

That is not an appropriate topic for this e-mail list.  However,
since you opened the door, climate change is an unproven theory
backed by junk science and "made up data."  Only serious and
independent research will prove the theory.  Until such time as
the theory has been completely vetted and proven, there is no
basis for using it to set public policy or drive legislation
either parochially or globally.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV

On 6/16/2010 10:39 AM, David Yarnes wrote:


I think it was pretty obvious that GM4FDM's comment was "tongue in
cheek".  You seem to take everything literally, as evidenced by your
subsequent commentary.

About the only cogent comments you made were that you don't have a
good energy policy there (we sure don't either on this side of the
pond!), and that your infrastructure is lacking in storage capacity.
Climate change is not a myth!  Nor is the value of wind, solar, and
other non-fossil fuel energy devices.  What it is, is underdeveloped!
That's partly due to the lack of a good energy policy, which we all
seem to be without.  If we don't start pushing hard on technological
advancement, which will surely lead to cost reduction over time, we
will be saddled with high alternative energy costs.  That's obvious
too, as it is with anything that doesn't get sufficient attention and
investment in order to develop cheaper and better versions.  Just
about anything you own cost a lot more initially when it was in its
infant state of development.  Cell phones, computers, radios,
TV's,--everything!  You can front end a bunch of development money
with some significant benefit, but the real benefit will come when
demand, either natural or mandated, stimulates the developers to
compete more effectively as to cost, etc.  The more they sell, the
more they can invest in technology, and the cheaper it will get (at
least in "constant" currency terms).  Even at this rather early stage
of solar panel development, we are starting to see this effect.  The
same goes for battery technology.

It's not just the politicians and non-scientists that are pushing
this "eco" stuff either.  Most of the scientific community is as
well, at least those with the true expertise in these matters.
Indeed there are naysayers, and some of them have "credentials", but
they are a definite minority.  Unfortunately, many of these so called
"experts" are being paid by energy companies to refute the claims of
climate change, and most of them will do anything for money.

As bad as you think your energy policy is, it's nowhere near as bad
as ours!   Ours is loaded with the effects of graft and greed.  Our
politicians have been effectively bribed, and there is no effective
oversight.  That has to change!  Maybe more damaging is the
incredible amount of bad information that is being circulated.
People just won't take time to really get the facts!

By the way, I don't subscribe at all to the ignorance that tends to
have the current criticism of BP extend to the U.K. in general.
That's nonsense!  BP is an international company, and there is just
about as much investment by U.S. investors as there is U.K.
investment.  Even the chinese have a big stake now.  At one time BP
might have been more british, but the world has changed dramatically
since then.  Also, some years ago, BP merged with Atlantic Richfield,
a very large U.S. company, and immediately became a hybrid
genetically.  And BP is no better or worse than a bunch of other big
companies, many of which are perhaps more "U.S." in nature.  They all
are cutting corners, and that needs to stop!

The oceans between us don't mean much anymore.  We need to better
understand that, and try and get into the same boat philosophically.
What's good for you is almost certainly good for us, and vice versa.
I realize that you, as someone who apparently is more directly
involved in the energy industry, may feel you are being hurt more
specifically by all of this, but that totally ignores the big
picture, and the population as a whole.  Besides, a good energy
policy should deal with this, and do so effectively, to mitigate any
such effect.  Also, even if we really get serious about doing
something, things aren't going to change overnight, or anything close
to it!  What seems clear to me is that, instead of pouring money into
"oil wars", we need to commit that money and effort into regaining
our independence!  It has to be obvious by now what fools we are to
allow mid-east oil to control our lives and destiny!

Dave W7AQK




- Original Message - From: DAVE WHITE To: bhw...@hughes.net ;
DX-CHAT ; thomaswy...@sky.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:53
AM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready



I think to be fair that the Telegraph is a British newspaper so
reports from a British point of

Re: Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Again:  Please discontinue the political discussion as it does not fall within the scope of this reflector.
 
Thank you.
 
73, ron w3wn
administrator, dx chatJun 16, 2010 11:07:27 AM, w7...@cox.net wrote:
 

 





 

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Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[David Yarnes]

 
I think it was pretty obvious that GM4FDM's comment was "tongue in cheek".  You 
seem to take everything literally, as evidenced by your subsequent commentary.

About the only cogent comments you made were that you don't have a good energy 
policy there (we sure don't either on this side of the pond!), and that your 
infrastructure is lacking in storage capacity.  Climate change is not a myth!  
Nor is the value of wind, solar, and other non-fossil fuel energy devices.  
What it is, is underdeveloped!  That's partly due to the lack of a good energy 
policy, which we all seem to be without.  If we don't start pushing hard on 
technological advancement, which will surely lead to cost reduction over time, 
we will be saddled with high alternative energy costs.  That's obvious too, as 
it is with anything that doesn't get sufficient attention and investment in 
order to develop cheaper and better versions.  Just about anything you own cost 
a lot more initially when it was in its infant state of development.  Cell 
phones, computers, radios, TV's,--everything!  You can front end a bunch of 
development money with some significant benefit, but the real benefit will come 
when demand, either natural or mandated, stimulates the developers to compete 
more effectively as to cost, etc.  The more they sell, the more they can invest 
in technology, and the cheaper it will get (at least in "constant" currency 
terms).  Even at this rather early stage of solar panel development, we are 
starting to see this effect.  The same goes for battery technology.

It's not just the politicians and non-scientists that are pushing this "eco" 
stuff either.  Most of the scientific community is as well, at least those with 
the true expertise in these matters.  Indeed there are naysayers, and some of 
them have "credentials", but they are a definite minority.  Unfortunately, many 
of these so called "experts" are being paid by energy companies to refute the 
claims of climate change, and most of them will do anything for money.  

As bad as you think your energy policy is, it's nowhere near as bad as ours!   
Ours is loaded with the effects of graft and greed.  Our politicians have been 
effectively bribed, and there is no effective oversight.  That has to change!  
Maybe more damaging is the incredible amount of bad information that is being 
circulated.  People just won't take time to really get the facts!  

By the way, I don't subscribe at all to the ignorance that tends to have the 
current criticism of BP extend to the U.K. in general.  That's nonsense!  BP is 
an international company, and there is just about as much investment by U.S. 
investors as there is U.K. investment.  Even the chinese have a big stake now.  
At one time BP might have been more british, but the world has changed 
dramatically since then.  Also, some years ago, BP merged with Atlantic 
Richfield, a very large U.S. company, and immediately became a hybrid 
genetically.  And BP is no better or worse than a bunch of other big companies, 
many of which are perhaps more "U.S." in nature.  They all are cutting corners, 
and that needs to stop!  

The oceans between us don't mean much anymore.  We need to better understand 
that, and try and get into the same boat philosophically.  What's good for you 
is almost certainly good for us, and vice versa.  I realize that you, as 
someone who apparently is more directly involved in the energy industry, may 
feel you are being hurt more specifically by all of this, but that totally 
ignores the big picture, and the population as a whole.  Besides, a good energy 
policy should deal with this, and do so effectively, to mitigate any such 
effect.  Also, even if we really get serious about doing something, things 
aren't going to change overnight, or anything close to it!  What seems clear to 
me is that, instead of pouring money into "oil wars", we need to commit that 
money and effort into regaining our independence!  It has to be obvious by now 
what fools we are to allow mid-east oil to control our lives and destiny!

Dave W7AQK




  - Original Message - 
  From: DAVE WHITE 
  To: bhw...@hughes.net ; DX-CHAT ; thomaswy...@sky.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready



I think to be fair that the Telegraph is a British newspaper so reports 
from a British point of view.

However.

After the absence of any sensible energy policy for about the last 25 
years, Britain will have plenty of blackouts coming, and not related to solar 
flares - merely due to lack of generation capacity.  As recent governments have 
played the "eco" card and pursued the myth of wind, wave and solar energy and 
climate change they have neglected the core generating capacity that needs to 
sit behi

[DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready: ADMINISTRATIVE NOTE

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

OK folks, before this gets out of hand...
 
DX Chat is supposed to be for the calm discussion of things Amateur Radio related.
 
The ecological disaster in the Gulf of Mexico does not fall within that scope.
 
In other words, this is not the correct forum for discussion of that disaster or collateral damage thereof.
 
So please discontinue that tangent of the thread before it gets out of hand.
 
Thank you.
 
73, ron w3wn
administrator, DX ChatJun 16, 2010 10:04:56 AM, mausop...@btinternet.com wrote:
< snip >

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Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[DAVE WHITE]

 
Hmm,  I wondered when that might start.

Just to point out before I say this:  I think that Britain is an utterly 
worn-out, useless country, good at nothing apart from grand incompetence in 
just about every field.  So please don't accuse me of flag-waving. Ever. Now we 
can't even beat the bloody Yanks at soccer.  

However: 

BP is no longer British Petroleum and is no longer a British company,  It is 
now an international conglomerate and has been since the merger with Amoco.  

The drilling was being done by Halliburton on a rig owned by Transocean - and I 
don't think that either of those two have a connection with the "mother 
country" at all.

I presume that the technology used and practices followed were the 
reponsibility of the authority who grants offshore licences in the GoM.  That 
happens to be the United States Government.  So frankly I'd lay responsibility 
at their door. Safety concerns about the blow-out prevention used by 
BP/Transocean have been raised here in the UK, so why isn't a regulator doing 
its job and laying down the law?

Those old enough and familiar with the energy industry may remember a disaster 
in the North Sea in 1988:  Piper Alpha.  This killed 167 men.  It was owned by 
Occidental - however I don't recall any anti-Amercian feeling at the time along 
the lines of the carefully-orchestrated anti-British feeling in the USA right 
now.  There was just deep sadness for the families involved and a strong will 
at regulatory level to ensure that it never happened again.

Having worked in the offshore industry myself, I can attest that absolutely 
everything changed after Piper Alpha, not least the attitude to safety versus 
cost-cutting.  Having also seen the GoM offshore industry, I'm aware of some 
pretty gung-ho practices that go on there.

I attended a survival and firefighting course in Aberdeen (mandatory before 
working in the UK offshore sector) and one of the lecturers was a Piper Alpha 
survivor.  Apparently the rule on Piper Alpha was that if there was a fire the 
crew should go to the helideck to await rescue.  This wasn't possible due to 
the 300-foot flames engulfing it.  So the chap I met went to the accommodation 
block.  I asked him why and his answer was "because I didn't want to die alone".

I worked in Aberdeen with a number of folks who'd lost family in Piper Alpha.  
Call me a bit sensitive on the subject but if I were you I'd pray for the 
families of the 11 blokes who died on the rig rather than making jokes about it.

cheers

Dave G0OIL



--- On Wed, 16/6/10, w0...@aol.com  wrote:

From: w0...@aol.com 
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Date: Wednesday, 16 June, 2010, 13:18




 

Dave may have overlooked that BP's oil from the colony shall be washing 
ashore in the mother country just  in time for the Brit's need ..  
;>)
 
"WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS ARE MORE UNEMPLOYED POLITICIANS" 
 

In a message dated 6/16/2010 2:55:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
mausop...@btinternet.com writes:


  


  I think to be fair that the Telegraph is a British 
newspaper so reports from a British point of 
view.

However.

After the absence of any sensible 
energy policy for about the last 25 years, Britain will have plenty of 
blackouts coming, and not related to solar flares - merely due to lack 
of generation capacity.  As recent governments have played the 
"eco" card and pursued the myth of wind, wave and solar energy and 
climate change they have neglected the core generating capacity that 
needs to sit behind them.  Britain's generating capacity relies 
over-heavily on gas, the stocks of which are dwindling in the North Sea 
and which will soon have to be imported in large qualtities.  This 
problem is exacerbated by lack of investment in infrastructure:  we 
can store only a few days' worth of gas whereas many other EU countries 
can store weeks' worth.

The "green" agenda pushed by politicians 
and other non-scientists has caused us to lose sight of energy 
security.  Britain has huge coal stocks though lack of investment 
in (a) mining and (b) power stations to burn the stuff mean that we're 
in no position to use it.   Many of our power stations are 
coming to the end of their lives, and nothing new is being built to 
replace them.  Wind turbines cost more to build and maintain then 
they ever generate - they exists merely because of political pressure 
and due to the various subsidies (much of which are paid for by YOU via 
your gas/electricity bill, BTW) that HMG pays landowners to install 
them.  Solar panels have a distinct limitation when you want power 
at 10pm on a Sunda

Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[W0WOI]

 
Dave may have overlooked that BP's oil from the colony shall be washing  
ashore in the mother country just  in time for the Brit's need ..   ;>)
 
"WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS ARE MORE UNEMPLOYED POLITICIANS"  

 
In a message dated 6/16/2010 2:55:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mausop...@btinternet.com writes:


I think to be fair that the Telegraph is a British  newspaper so reports 
from a British point of  view.

However.

After the absence of any sensible  energy policy for about the last 25 
years, Britain will have plenty of  blackouts coming, and not related to solar 
flares - merely due to lack  of generation capacity.  As recent governments 
have played the  "eco" card and pursued the myth of wind, wave and solar 
energy and  climate change they have neglected the core generating capacity 
that 
 needs to sit behind them.  Britain's generating capacity relies  
over-heavily on gas, the stocks of which are dwindling in the North Sea  and 
which 
will soon have to be imported in large qualtities.  This  problem is 
exacerbated by lack of investment in infrastructure:  we  can store only a few 
days' 
worth of gas whereas many other EU countries  can store weeks' worth.

The "green" agenda pushed by politicians  and other non-scientists has 
caused us to lose sight of energy  security.  Britain has huge coal stocks 
though lack of investment  in (a) mining and (b) power stations to burn the 
stuff 
mean that we're  in no position to use it.   Many of our power stations are 
 coming to the end of their lives, and nothing new is being built to  
replace them.  Wind turbines cost more to build and maintain then  they ever 
generate - they exists merely because of political pressure  and due to the 
various subsidies (much of which are paid for by YOU via  your gas/electricity 
bill, BTW) that HMG pays landowners to install  them.  Solar panels have a 
distinct limitation when you want power  at 10pm on a Sunday night in January.

I'd buy a diesel generator  if I were you.  They also come in useful for 
field day  contests...

Dave G0OIL
(an Energy Sector  professional)



--- On Wed, 16/6/10, tom wylie   wrote:


From:  tom wylie 
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT]  Warning-Get Ready
To: bhw...@hughes.net, "DX-CHAT"  
Date: Wednesday, 16 June, 2010,  8:17


What - only Britain?  Thats not  fair..


Tom
GM4FDM



Bill Hawkins  wrote:
> 
>
>  
>   Nasa warns solar flares from 'huge space  storm' will cause devastation
> 
> 
>   Britain could face widespread power blackouts and be  left without
> critical communication  signals for long periods of time, after the
>   earth is hit by a once-in-a-generation “space  storm”, Nasa has warned.
> 
> *Senior space agency  scientists believe the Earth will be hit with 
unprecedented levels of  magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun wakes “
from a deep  slumber” sometime around 2013. *
> ** Read the whole story here  
<_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7819201/Nasa-warns-solar-flares-from-huge-space-storm-will-cause-devastation.
html_ 
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7819201/Nasa-warns-solar-flares-from-huge-space-storm-will-cause-devastation.html)
 >.
>  
>  ---
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> 
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> 
> or
> 
> subscribe dx-chat
>  
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(http://njdxa.org/) 
>  ---

--  I am fully aware that my youth has been spent
That my get up and go  - has got up and went
But I really dont mind when I think with a  grin
of all the great places my "get up" has  been!


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[DAVE WHITE]

 
I think to be fair that the Telegraph is a British newspaper so reports from a 
British point of view.

However.

After the absence of any sensible energy policy for about the last 25 years, 
Britain will have plenty of blackouts coming, and not related to solar flares - 
merely due to lack of generation capacity.  As recent governments have played 
the "eco" card and pursued the myth of wind, wave and solar energy and climate 
change they have neglected the core generating capacity that needs to sit 
behind them.  Britain's generating capacity relies over-heavily on gas, the 
stocks of which are dwindling in the North Sea and which will soon have to be 
imported in large qualtities.  This problem is exacerbated by lack of 
investment in infrastructure:  we can store only a few days' worth of gas 
whereas many other EU countries can store weeks' worth.

The "green" agenda pushed by politicians and other non-scientists has caused us 
to lose sight of energy security.  Britain has huge coal stocks though lack of 
investment in (a) mining and (b) power stations to burn the stuff mean that 
we're in no position to use it.   Many of our power stations are coming to the 
end of their lives, and nothing new is being built to replace them.  Wind 
turbines cost more to build and maintain then they ever generate - they exists 
merely because of political pressure and due to the various subsidies (much of 
which are paid for by YOU via your gas/electricity bill, BTW) that HMG pays 
landowners to install them.  Solar panels have a distinct limitation when you 
want power at 10pm on a Sunday night in January.

I'd buy a diesel generator if I were you.  They also come in useful for field 
day contests...

Dave G0OIL
(an Energy Sector professional)



--- On Wed, 16/6/10, tom wylie  wrote:

From: tom wylie 
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready
To: bhw...@hughes.net, "DX-CHAT" 
Date: Wednesday, 16 June, 2010, 8:17


What - only Britain?  Thats not fair..


Tom
GM4FDM



Bill Hawkins wrote:
> 
>    
> 
>   Nasa warns solar flares from 'huge space storm' will cause devastation
> 
> 
>     Britain could face widespread power blackouts and be left without
>     critical communication signals for long periods of time, after the
>     earth is hit by a once-in-a-generation “space storm”, Nasa has warned.
> 
> *Senior space agency scientists believe the Earth will be hit with 
> unprecedented levels of magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun wakes 
> “from a deep slumber” sometime around 2013. *
> ** Read the whole story here 
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7819201/Nasa-warns-solar-flares-from-huge-space-storm-will-cause-devastation.html>.
> 
> ---
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> 
> imail...@njdxa.org
> 
> In the message body put either
> 
> unsubscribe dx-chat
> 
> or
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> subscribe dx-chat
> 
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-- I am fully aware that my youth has been spent
That my get up and go - has got up and went
But I really dont mind when I think with a grin
of all the great places my "get up" has been!


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Warning-Get Ready

[tom wylie]

What - only Britain?  Thats not fair..


Tom
GM4FDM



Bill Hawkins wrote:


   



  Nasa warns solar flares from 'huge space storm' will cause devastation


Britain could face widespread power blackouts and be left without
critical communication signals for long periods of time, after the
earth is hit by a once-in-a-generation “space storm”, Nasa has warned.

*Senior space agency scientists believe the Earth will be hit with 
unprecedented levels of magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun 
wakes “from a deep slumber” sometime around 2013. *
** 
Read the whole story here 
.


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--
I am fully aware that my youth has been spent
That my get up and go - has got up and went
But I really dont mind when I think with a grin
of all the great places my "get up" has been!


---
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imail...@njdxa.org 

In the message body put either 


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This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
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